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Ford Flex Lease Questions

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Comments

  • jmartin1jmartin1 Member Posts: 9
    Hi,
    I'm considering a Flex Limited. In the suburbs of Chicago, need 12,000 mi/yr, 3 year lease. Can you give me an idea of residual and money factor?
    Thanks!
  • djhalptertdjhalptert Member Posts: 115
    Ask anyone in the forum, X-Plan, or it's equivalent (GM, Chrysler, Subaru, etc.) is an absolute rip off in this buying climate or even 2 years ago for that matter. In case you don't own a calendar, most of the 2009's have been sitting on the car lots since around August. That's 7 months of depreciation. To have to pay OVER invoice right now is absolutely absurd. Big deal you save the $495 acquisition fee and maybe a document fee. The dealers are dying to sell/lease you a car right now. Again, ASK ANYONE. Unless you are using the discount for a Mustang V-8 or F-250 Super Duty it is ridiculous.

    As to all of your rebuttals,

    1. My brother leased a 2006 X3 with only security deposit down for $509. That is why I mentioned it.

    2. $1,500 in negative equity raised your payment $30. Like I said, DIDN'T DRASTICALLY AFFECT PAYMENT. Quit making excuses why you got ripped off on your lease. It wasn't because of the negative equity.

    3. I bought a $30,000 Explorer in 2003 for $18,600 WITH ZERO DOWN, NO TRADE-IN. I mentioned it because you got $2,000 off your MSRP and I got over $11,000. Rule #1 of leasing, negotiate a SELLING PRICE FIRST. Then tell them you want to lease. (of course you can't do this if you are using X-Plan, another reason why it is USELESS.)

    4. You can't turn your lease in "because your payments are so high they can't absorb the residual." TRUE. If you knew anything about leasing, which you obviously don't, you would know how a lease buyout works. YOU DON'T PAY THE TOTAL OF ALL MONTHLY PAYMENTS LEFT! i.e. if your payment is $500 per month and you have 4 months left, your lease buyout isn't $2,000. Your lease buyout is determined solely on three things. Firstly, the depreciation fee. Secondly, a mileage adjustment. Thirdly, the real world value of the vehicle. Big deal your residual was 52%. Doesn't matter. If you would've negotiated a better selling price instead of using X-Plan your payment would be $350 a month instead of $500. The buyout would be worst case scenario $250 (depreciation amount) X 4 months = -$1,000. YOU DON'T HAVE TO WRITE A CHECK FOR THE BALANCE OF YOUR REMAINING PAYMENTS TO TRADE YOUR LEASE IN EARLY. YOU DON'T PAY THE SALES TAX OR RENT CHARGE FOR THE MONTHS YOU BUYOUT!

    5. You are apparently one of the many people on this forum who go into a dealership and just take their word for everything. Just becuase they seemingly won't budge off their first offer doesn't mean you can't get a lower price. It just means you have to try harder. If you don't want to play their games, have fun paying $500 a month on a $350 vehicle. If you can't find an honest dealer locally branch out a little. Go 250 miles or more outside of your area. The amount of money you spend on gas there and back WILL be saved in one LOWER monthly payment. Plus, you will find that the selection of vehicles greatly improves as you look further outside your immediate area.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    I bought a $30,000 Explorer in 2003 for $18,600 WITH ZERO DOWN, NO TRADE-IN. I mentioned it because you got $2,000 off your MSRP and I got over $11,000.

    I've seen final buy-down rebates of $8000+ for Explorers recently but by that time leases are over for the MY. Again, not helpful.

    $1,500 in negative equity raised your payment $30. Like I said, DIDN'T DRASTICALLY AFFECT PAYMENT. Quit making excuses why you got ripped off on your lease.

    I don't feel I was ripped off. I feel I got a fair price and I can live with that. If you can't then have fun pinching your pennies the rest of your life.

    YOU DON'T PAY THE TOTAL OF ALL MONTHLY PAYMENTS LEFT! i.e. if your payment is $500 per month and you have 4 months left, your lease buyout isn't $2,000. Your lease buyout is determined solely on three things. Firstly, the depreciation fee. Secondly, a mileage adjustment. Thirdly, the real world value of the vehicle.

    Yeah, that's one option if the trade-in value is anywhere near the balance you owe which is not the case on any SUV today. The other option is to pay your remaining payments (see option 2 below). You might know how to negotiate better prices but please don't try to fool all of us into thinking you know everything about leasing.

    From the Ford Credit site:
    "Early Vehicle Return

    * Return the vehicle to the original dealer
    * Sign a Vehicle Condition Report and Odometer Statement
    * Pay one of the following amounts, whichever is less

    1. The difference, if any, between the Current Balance (see below) and the Fair Market Wholesale Value of the vehicle, plus an early termination fee (except California and some Wisconsin leases), plus all other amounts then due under the lease. The Fair Market Wholesale Value will be determined at your option by one of the three following methods:

    1. An amount agreed to by you and the originating dealer, or
    2. The net amount received by Ford Credit upon the sale of the vehicle at wholesale auction, or
    3. An amount determined by a professional independent appraiser (the appraiser must be agreeable to Ford Credit and will be at your expense)

    OR

    2. The sum of the remaining unpaid lease payments, plus any excess wear and use and mileage charges, and all other amounts then due under the lease."

    Have you looked back at posts in this thread by chance? Show me where anyone had a payment better than what I was quoted. And no, 2009 models have not been on the lots for 7 months now. Two local dealers finally received their first 2009 Explorers which have been in production for roughly 6 months now. There are several loaded Flex Limiteds around that have been sitting for a while but even with a great deal I'm not sure I'd want one. Everything else has been kept at low stock levels and new copies don't arrive until the old ones are gone. It sounds like you have one of those mega dealers near you if you can see '09s sitting around since August. I don't have one of those near me, at least not one that sells Fords, so it's pretty stable right now. You really and truly have to understand the differences in markets before handing out advice you take to be universal. I guess that's why we all ask carman for his thoughts and not you.
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi jmartin1. ford Credit's current base lease rate and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2009 Flex Limited AWD with 12,000 miles per year are 1.0% and 50%, respectively. As you can see, Ford Credit publishes lease rates instead of money factors for the vehicles that it leases. You can convert its lease rates into approximate money factor equivalents by dividing them by 2400. So a lease rate of 1.0% would be equivalent to a money factor of around 0.00042.

    Car_man
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  • djhalptertdjhalptert Member Posts: 115
    As I said, go to a high volume dealer. You live in Pittsburgh according to your profile. Tell me you can't find a "MEGA DEALER" within 250 miles?? Only if you aren't looking.

    ANY dealer will tell you about your LEASE PAYOFF. Notice I didn't say BUY OUT. PAYOFF is as I described. It has nothing to do with an appraiser or fair market value. You owe what the rent charge portion of your payments add up to be plus/minus the trade-in they give you.

    Pinching pennies??? Try pinching the $5600 you overpaid on your 39 month lease.

    I guess that's why we all ask carman for his thoughts and not you.

    FROM CAR_MAN (TO YOU) FEB. 24th, 2009: "To be honest with you, $500 per month seems like a lot of money to lease a Ford Flex to me anyhow. Leasing just isn't what it used to be for domestic vehicles. The Flex is probably slightly bigger, but you could lease a fairly similar nice AWD Subaru for at least $100 per month less than that, if not $150/month less. That seems like a much better value to me. If I really wanted a Flex, I personally would be more inclined to finance it instead of lease it."

    You are THE ONLY ONE who thinks $500 for a Flex is reasonable.
  • jwinter65jwinter65 Member Posts: 1
    Saw this post and am curious if the rates in NY are unchanged? Looking at a Flex Limited and they priced out a lease using 1.25 as the rate. The residual was $21550.20 on list price of $43980.00. Does this sound right? Lastly, he is basing the lease price on Invoice as he says thats what he has to pay the dealer who has the car?
  • Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    A reporter would like to talk with owners of the Ford Flex. Please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com by March 18, 2009 noting your daytime contact info and a word about why you bought your Flex.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    Try pinching the $5600 you overpaid on your 39 month lease.

    Boy I'd really like to know how you arrived at that amount. Please enlighten me.

    Tell me you can't find a "MEGA DEALER" within 250 miles?? Only if you aren't looking.

    You're right about that. I'm not looking that far out. I've looked 50 miles out or less and there definitely is not a mega dealer in that range. I'm not going farther than that because it's not that important to me to save every dollar I can. Have I not made that clear?

    Yes, carman did say this as you pointed out:
    "To be honest with you, $500 per month seems like a lot of money to lease a Ford Flex to me anyhow. Leasing just isn't what it used to be for domestic vehicles.

    Did you read the second sentence though? Do you see how all he's telling us is that leasing deals are not what they used to be and that's why the payments are higher these days? If 0% comes back in May when I'm ready to buy/lease I'll definitely try for a lower price, maybe not to the extent you would, and see if buying is better. Right now the interest rates are 3.9% for 60 months and 2.9% for 48 months from Ford so leasing will still be cheaper for us even if it were possible to get some insane amount of money off of a Flex at that time. The lease finance rate is 2% currently. I think that's actually up from what it was a few months ago.

    He also said this:
    The Flex is probably slightly bigger, but you could lease a fairly similar nice AWD Subaru for at least $100 per month less than that, if not $150/month less.

    How much can you get that Subaru for? $100 a month? Maybe $150?

    You are THE ONLY ONE who thinks $500 for a Flex is reasonable.

    Did you look back through this thread to see what others paid like I asked you to? Didn't think so. Remember that about $60 of that is the first month's payment, 10% PA tax and security deposit rolled into the payment. Pay close attention to the trim levels and options the other posters listed too. Don't just look for the lowest price you can find and report back. I've seen it and it was a base SE with 2 or 3 inexpensive options that stikered for $7000 less than the one I'm looking at right now.
  • chuck68516chuck68516 Member Posts: 195
    Did you look back through this thread to see what others paid like I asked you to? Didn't think so. Remember that about $60 of that is the first month's payment, 10% PA tax and security deposit rolled into the payment. Pay close attention to the trim levels and options the other posters listed too. Don't just look for the lowest price you can find and report back. I've seen it and it was a base SE with 2 or 3 inexpensive options that stikered for $7000 less than the one I'm looking at right now.

    Thought I would jump back in here.
    1. Ford's security deposit is not mandatory. It is not even recommended. Wear Care is a complete and total rip off and can be waived. Just put a check mark in the box that says no on the Wear Care form.
    2. Your state is one of the few that leasing makes literally zero sense. 10% sales tax on a lease! And that has to be added into the net cap cost so you are paying the rent charge on it too? Ouch!
    3. I don't think you could lease a Flex SEL AWD for any less than $375 in any state or through any high volume dealer. However, I do think $500 is outrageous whether you are rolling in first month's payment or not. You could buy a $35,000 MSRP Flex for $28,000 or less. Invoice is around $33,000. Knock a minimum of $1,500 off invoice. Then add the $4,000 in rebates. You are at $27,500 easily. Add 7% sales tax to that and you are financing only $29,425. Payment would be around $495. Basically, there is no point in leasing it if the payment is the same.
    4. If you can't save at least $100 a month leasing vs buying. BUY IT.
  • chuck68516chuck68516 Member Posts: 195
    Car_Man,

    What are the current numbers for a 2009 Ford Flex SEL AWD, 36 month, 10,500 per year in the Omaha, Nebraska area? My local dealer has been quoting me some crazy numbers. Sale price on MSRP $35,410 is down to $26,256 but lease rate is way too high.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    Ford's security deposit is not mandatory. It is not even recommended. Wear Care is a complete and total rip off and can be waived. Just put a check mark in the box that says no on the Wear Care form.

    Didn't know you could completely waive the security deposit on all leases. Are you sure about that? I know they sometimes waive it across the board during certain promotions. Wear Care is a joke and I agree with you there. The finance guy always gets mad after I tell them "No" to that waste of money. How much do they make off of that package anyway?

    Your state is one of the few that leasing makes literally zero sense.

    There are a lot of things in this state that don't make sense. That's one of the least of our worries!

    You could buy a $35,000 MSRP Flex for $28,000 or less. Invoice is around $33,000. Knock a minimum of $1,500 off invoice. Then add the $4,000 in rebates. You are at $27,500 easily. Add 7% sales tax to that and you are financing only $29,425. Payment would be around $495. Basically, there is no point in leasing it if the payment is the same.

    I disagree. I lease because I only want the vehicle for 3 years or less then I want something new. The payments are still lower when leasing and I'm not trying to trade it back in and take a loss every 3 years. We did that twice and are now set on leasing because it keeps both my wife and I sane. ;)

    Also, I'm not sure where you got those numbers. The rebates on a Flex right now are only $3000 here and using a 6% interest rate, which is a pretty reasonable rate right now for good credit IIRC, for 60 months the payment is roughly $588 per month after tax. What rate were you using? Ford won't give you the $3000 and their special rates right now.

    So even if it were about getting the lowest payment your financing example doesn't seem to work either. I see your point and totally agree with most of it, but I still have yet to find anyone who can lease for less than what I was quoted. I'm not sure if you're $375 per month lease for a Flex SEL was a typo or what but I would have to say that payment is impossible to arrive at without cash down. The rebate for leasing here is $250 and you would need to somehow get $6000 off of a base SEL AWD to get an out the door payment of $375 per month for 39 months @ 10,500 miles per year. That's with PA 10% tax but does not inlcude any fees, payments, or any other monies. If someone can explain how to do that I'm all ears. I can see $3000 off but not $6000. Even without the PA tax you still need $4750 off to get a before tax payment of $375.

    Base 2009 Flex SEL AWD
    MSRP: $34,950 (includes D&D)
    Lease rebate: $250
    Interest rate: 2.0%
    Residual: Unknown and I doubt they will haggle with this right now even if they could

    Invoice should be easy to get. Possibly lower if you work at it. But invoice is, like you said, around $33000 (X-Plan site says about $32,800 IIRC). That's a far cry from the $29k you need to get to for the $375 per month. I'm sure I'm not willing to go toe to toe with a dealer for that. I'm also sure I'd never get it. I can't recall anyone I know ever getting lower than invoice on anything either. Ever. That's not to say it doesn't happen elsewhere, just not the norm around here from what I've seen and heard.
  • djhalptertdjhalptert Member Posts: 115
    Wear Care is 100% profit. They don't even ever look at my leases when I return them. Don't get it. It's like getting the extended warranty on a toaster.

    I was basing financing quotes off 72 months. Who would get a 60 month loan for over $25,000? The rates for 60 and 72 are pretty much universally equal. You just get to divide it into 12 more payments. You are only paying like $250 total more interest after 3 years of the loan and your payment is $70 less. It's smarter to get the 72 month loan for the same rate and pay a little extra on it if/when you can.

    Ford should not post MSRP or even Invoice. Fair Market Value is the number they need to put on every car. I have never known anyone, including myself of course, who have ever paid OVER invoice. Most of the time I have gotten at least $2,000 under invoice (not including rebates). $500 under invoice should be the absolute minimum price on any widely available vehicle from any manufacturer. By minimum price I really mean worst case scenario. You are at least getting $500 off invoice. The dealers don't even pay invoice price for the car. Then there's the dealer holdback, numerous manufacturer to dealer incentives, rebates, advertising fees. It's crazy to think that after getting $5,000 off MSRP they are actually still making thousands but it's TRUE.

    If you don't think you can get way, way under your beloved X-Plan, look at the previous poster. Chuck is at $26,000 on a $35,000 SEL. That's $9,000 off instead of your $2,000.

    You keep asking the same questions and I keep answering them. We will just have to agree to disagree. Out.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    Chuck is at $26,000 on a $35,000 SEL.

    I can just as easily say I'm down to $20k on an SEL. I'm not seeing any proof and finding what you guys are saying very hard to believe regarding lease selling prices. They have to be giving him the financing rebates which I've never heard of on a lease.

    Wear Care is 100% profit. They don't even ever look at my leases when I return them. Don't get it. It's like getting the extended warranty on a toaster.


    I never get it because it seems totally ridiculous. However a 3rd party inspector does look at the vehicles before they are turned in and it's mandatory. How closely they look at it is another story.

    I was basing financing quotes off 72 months.

    That was chuck68516 that gave those numbers I was questioning. Are you two the same person?

    I have never known anyone, including myself of course, who have ever paid OVER invoice.

    See, that's where region comes into play. Supply and demand are probably completely different where you live.

    It's crazy to think that after getting $5,000 off MSRP they are actually still making thousands but it's TRUE.

    I don't doubt that. However getting them to reduce the selling price to that point is not as simple as asking for it at any dealer in any part of the world.

    You keep asking the same questions and I keep answering them.

    See the problem is, I never asked any of the questions you guys were so quick to answer. I do know what kinds of deals are available in this region and I take advantage of them when I can. All I wanted to know originally was what the lease loyalty rebate was all about.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    What are the current numbers for a 2009 Ford Flex SEL AWD, 36 month, 10,500 per year in the Omaha, Nebraska area?

    Checking cars.com shows nothing on leases in zip 68516 or any other Omaha zip code.

    I noticed the rebate is $4500 in your zip. That's $1500 more than what it is here but we do have lease offers through Ford here.
  • chuck68516chuck68516 Member Posts: 195
    My dealer "CLAIMS" that the selling price of $26,000 is good whether I lease from Ford or through U.S. Bank. The part I don't get is that the U.S. Bank lease rate is about 5% and the Ford Credit lease rate is 10.6%. I have qualified at Tier 0, best you can get. He claims that's the best current rate in my area. HUH? I am assuming Ford is not offering ANY lease support in my area. I will probably just buy like I first considered doing. He quoted me 36 month, zero down, $435 going through U.S. Bank and $603 going through Ford.

    On a regular purchase, zero down payment would be $470 rolling sales tax of 7% into the loan. Only a $35 difference. I'll try to work one hour of overtime per month to cover it.
  • tfd123tfd123 Member Posts: 4
    Car Man,
    Considering the lease of a 2009 Flex SEL FWD with Auto-fold seats, Sync, roof rails - MSRP of $34,090. Looking at 36 months, 15,000 miles per year, $2,000 down. One comment - we were negotiating a purchase of a Flex SE with an MSRP of $30,400 and the dealer, with just a phone call and virtually no haggling, dropped the price to $23,600. So I'm assuming, since their Flex inventory is simply not moving, that they'd be willing to offer a similar discount off MSRP for the SEL, which would mean a cap cost of roughly 27,500. What am I looking at for an APR and a residual? Thanks.
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi jwinter65. Ford's current lease rate on the Flex is not 1.0%. Dealer invoice is a very reasonable selling price for a lease of an '09 Flex.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi chuck68516. Here's the info that you're looking for. Through March 31st, Ford Credit's buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2009 Flex SEL AWD with 10,500 miles per year are 1.0% and 51%, respectively.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi tfd123. Ford Credit's current base lease rate and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2009 Flex SEL FWD with 15,000 miles per year are 1.0% and 47%, respectively.

    Car_man
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  • cagormcagorm Member Posts: 40
    Hi Car_Man,

    I am heading out today to buy or lease an AWD Flex Ltd. The lease would be 36 months and 15,000 miles per year. Do you happen to know the April resudial and MF for this vehicle? Thanks for the help.
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi cagorm. Here's the information that you're looking for. Ford Credit's current base lease rate and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2009 Ford Flex Limited AWD with 15,000 miles per year are 0.25% and 46%, respectively. Ford's lease program often varies by region. If you tell me what state you are in, I can confirm that this is the exact program that is available in your area.

    As you can see, Ford Credit publishes lease rates instead of money factors for the vehicles that it leases. You can convert its published lease rates into approximate money factor equivalents by dividing them by 2400.

    Car_man
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  • yokevyokev Member Posts: 1
    Shopping for a Flex AWD Ltd to replace my current lease ending in June. The dealer I spoke with last night confirmed that the lease rate is .25% for April but hinted that it would change in May. Do you believe this to be true? I'd prefer to wait until May to get into a new car so I'm not saddled with two car payments for two months but, if that means I'll end up with a higher lease rate it may be worth added cost.
    The deal I got was @528 for 36/12000K w/taxes down no cap reduction on a 7 pas, limited, AWD, vista, tow package.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    I too had the same concern last week. Ford's current lease rates don't expire until 6/1/2009 so I doubt they will get better or worse in May. They can, but I doubt it. I'm leasing one in May too and I did have one dealer tell me the lease was bad this month but will get better next month because "Ford is getting back into leasing". Well, since Ford never abandoned leasing completely I'll just chalk that up as another crazy sales ploy.

    The dealer I am working with right now is honoring the current lease rate until 6/1 but did state that the residual could change as it does not have an expiration date. Currently it is 47% here in Wester PA but YMMV over there in NY.

    Your payment seems about right judging by what I've seen from the 5 dealers I've asked for quotes. All either gave me invoice or X-Plan (if I told them I had it) except for one. That one quoted me over $650 per month for the same Flex another dealer quoted $525 per month (SEL AWD Sync, Tow pkg,, dual headrest DVD ES and no money due at signing). They obviously were not giving me the $1000 lease loyalty rebate, the invoice price, and possibly not the proper residual and/or rate either. Watch out for those people. They even had the nerve to tell me they were only making $200 on the sale when they were really making like $6000!

    Stay far away from Northland Ford if you live in Western PA.
  • stoopystoopy Member Posts: 105
    Seems to me that you should just buy the Flex. If it's MSRP is $39,000 you should easily be able to buy it for a monthly payment of under $500 just putting down taxes as you were going to do on your lease. Why spend more money to lease? For $500 a month you could lease a way nicer car. That seems to be the idea of leasing in my opinion, to lower your payment.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    For $500 a month you could lease a way nicer car.

    A year ago that was true. Not now. You can lease a small luxury SUV for less than $500 now but you'll gain very little luxury over the Flex and lose a LOT of interior room.

    That seems to be the idea of leasing in my opinion, to lower your payment.

    That was always a nice side effect of leasing for me. I lease because I want something new every 3 years.
  • deejaybunkdeejaybunk Member Posts: 1
    HI Car Man --

    Could you tell me the lease program Ford is running in Connecticut for an SEL AWD, 12k miles for 36 months? Thanks!
  • baxterdownbaxterdown Member Posts: 36
    Hi Car_Man,

    I'm in South Florida (Fort Lauderdale). Could you please get me the April lease rates for a 2009 Flex Limited FWD? Also, I see you've posted 15K miles in your replies. Do you know if Ford offers the 2 point increase in residual for 12K miles and 4 point for 10K miles? I'm looking to lease for 36 months.

    Thanks in advance for your help! :D

    Baxterdown.
  • amxamx Member Posts: 8
    Dear Car_Man,

    Can you help with SoCal lease rates for a Flex SEL? We are looking at 36mo and 15K mi/yr. Is 39 mo. better? How does it look for 12k?

    Are dealers doing invoice pricing? Or should I shoot for something like 2K below inv?
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi yokev. Many of Ford's April incentives are scheduled to run through May 4th. Dealers always like to create a false sense of urgency in potential clients in an effort to get them to pull the trigger on a deal ASAP. The dealer doesn't know for certain whether Ford's May lease program for the Flex will be different or not. No one knows at this point, outside of a few people at Ford...if they have even already made up their minds.

    If I was in your situation, I personally would wait. Even if the lease program does change, I can't imagine that it would be by a lot...certainly not enough to justify wasting hundreds of dollars per month on two payments. Of course, as I mentioned earlier it is impossible to say for certain what Ford's May program will be like at this point. I personally would wait, but don't blame me if the new program is worse, I'm just making an educated guess ;).

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hey deejaybunk. Here's the info that you're looking for. Ford Credit's current buy rate lease rate and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2009 Flex SEL AWD with 12,000 miles per year in your area right now should be 0.25% and 48%, respectively.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi Baxterdown. In many parts of the country, Ford Credit's current base lease rate and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2009 Flex FWD with 15,000 miles per year are 1.25% and 46%, respectively. Ford Credit's 12k residuals are indeed 2% higher than its 15k resids and its 10.5k resids are 3% higher than its 15k resids.

    Having said this, I'm not sure if this program is available in Florida right now. Ford has cut way back on the availability of leased through Ford Credit. I would not be surprised in the least if it was not leasing at all in your area at this time.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hello amx. Ford Credit's current base lease rate and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2009 Flex SEL FWD with 15,000 miles per year in SoCal are 1.25% and 45%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical 39 month lease in your area are 1.5% and 43%. If you were to lease with only 12,000 miles per year, this vehicle's residual values would be 2% higher.

    Ford is not currently providing any cash incentives on leases of this model. As a result, I doubt that you will be able to lease one for under invoice. Shoot for a capitalized cost of as close to invoice as possible.

    Car_man
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  • baxterdownbaxterdown Member Posts: 36
    Thanks Car_Man!!! You're the best! :)
  • yolanda4510yolanda4510 Member Posts: 4
    Hi, I got quotes from two dealers, for a Flex Limited FWD 15000miles a year for 36 months. One using Ford Credit and one USBank. Can you tell me what the residuals and rates are for either of these credit sources?

    Also the US Bank lease paperwork seems to have a $6000 rebate worked in (Ford offered me a $500 rebate) as well as "Capped Fees" of $970. Not sure where these are coming from. My memory also tells me that US Bank has end of lease fees, and my guess is that it would be easier to get out of a Ford lease early if I needed/wanted to. Can you shed any light?

    Thanks.
  • amxamx Member Posts: 8
    many many thanks Car_Man, cannot tell you how much money you have saved me over the years...
  • stoopystoopy Member Posts: 105
    Ford sells the Flex to US Bank, US Bank leases the Flex to you that's why they get the RETAIL CASH REBATES.

    US Bank has terrible money factors and residuals but so does Ford in most areas. One guy said his lease rate was 10% vs some areas that were at 0.75% through Ford. On my quote, US Bank lease rate was 7.1% which is really high for a lease. Ford Residual was around 45% and US Bank was only 40%.

    In summary, BUY THE FLEX. Don't lease it right now. You can easily buy a $35K Flex Limited for around $26,000 after all the rebates. Put the $2500 towards your sales tax and plates. You could get a 72 month loan at $26,000, 6% for a monthly payment of $430.90. 60 Month would be $502.65. Don't lease. Also you can claim all that sales tax on your 2009 Income Tax Return. Probably net you another $500 plus.

    PS: Pilot is the same way. Way smarter to buy it than lease it. If you're gonna lease a vehicle MSRP of over $30K the residual better be over 50% and the money factor needs to be less than 5%.
  • vandyman4vandyman4 Member Posts: 15
    Hi:
    I am considering purchasing or leasing a 2009 SEL FLEX and can't make a decision. I can lease a 37,780 List Flex for $495.00 per month for 12,000 miles per year for 39 months or purchase a Flex with -0- % for $605.00 per month for 60 months. Total out of pocket is $1750.00 and selling price is $35,400.00. Is either a fair deal? Any ideas?
    Thanks,
    JON
  • baxterdownbaxterdown Member Posts: 36
    Hi Jon,

    Are the numbers you posted yours? Or are they a dealer quote? Also, they seem to be mixed between lease and buy.

    If the numbers are from a dealer, they look a bit high. Here are the numbers you need to post to make sure everything adds up:

    ON A LEASE

    MSRP
    Negotiated Price
    Money Factor (Interest Rate)
    Term (How many months)
    Residual

    ON A PURCHASE

    MSRP
    Negotiated Price
    Interest Rate
    Term (How many months)
    Down Payment (if any)

    I was on the same boat you are. And, after doing numbers up and down it turned out that leasing was not an option. If you see my post asking Car_Man for lease rates, you'll see he answered that Ford may not be leasing in my area. When I went to get my car, I found out that Ford is leasing (and others are too) but the lease rates are terrible. So, in my case, it made a lot more sense to buy.

    By the way, there is another post (a few posts up) from someone talking about financing for 72 months. That might be a good option. That extra year and the $1,750 out of pocket you were planning to pay on a lease might be enought to get you to your calculated lease payment.

    Here are a few other things to consider:

    - If you get the 0% financing, Ford Motor Credit will require you to carry gap insurance. When everything is said and done, this is not a good option. You are better off taking the $3,000 rebate.
    - Ford Motor Credit is offering a $1,000 rebate. It's useless. FMC's finance rates are terrible. If you have good credit, you are better off financing through a bank or credit union at around 5% for 72 months.
    - Dealers are DESPERATE. You should not pay (before any rebates) a penny more than invoice. Many dealers are even willing to sell cars for holdback (an additional profit built into invoice price) just to move cars.

    Click here for the 2009 Flex dealer price list. It will help you add the base cost and options on the car you want. That way you will know if there is more room for negotiating.

    Good luck!
  • baxterdownbaxterdown Member Posts: 36
    Thanks bud!!! Once again, you came through with lease rates information. I really appreciate your help!

    It turned out that Ford was leasing in South Florida but rates were a joke. So, I ended up buying the car. Also, FMC's finance rates are terrible. so the $1,000 rebate from them is useless.

    Thanks again sir. You're d-man!!! ;)
  • vandyman4vandyman4 Member Posts: 15
    Thanks,
    It's all very confusing. I have been leasing and buying Saab's and Caddy's for the last 15 years and always knew if I was getting a good deal. Now I am afraid to make a decision. Here are the details of the dealer quote:
    ON A LEASE

    MSRP 37,780.00
    Negotiated Price 35,458.00
    Money Factor (Interest Rate).5
    Term (How many months) 39
    Residual .46
    Rebate $750.00 given after negotiated price as additional money down
    $1000.00 total out pocket
    497.45 per month
    ON A PURCHASE

    MSRP 37, 780.00
    Negotiated Price 35,458.00
    Interest Rate 0
    Term (How many months) 60
    Down Payment (if any) 1000.00 total out of pocket
    Rebate $750.00 given will be an addional down payment
    605.70 per month

    What should I be paying for this car? Also, what is GAP insurance? I never had to pay this before. Right now I am leasing a Caddy STS4 for $479,00 per month which seems to be a better deal than the Flex. Should I work on a dealer for a limited model? I just need AWD, 40/40 captain's seats and the sun roof.

    Any help is greatly appreciated.
    Thanks,
    JON
  • kyrebakyreba Member Posts: 7
    Car_man,

    I'm in SoCal & looking at an SE with a white roof, sync & 6 cd. MSRP is listed as $30,545.00. I've 2 dealers telling me at invoice for a 36 mo lease 12,000 miles & no drive-offs the payment will be $430-448 plus tax. Does this jive with what your rates/invoice records show? I'm wondering if there is more room to bring down the payment a bit more?

    Thank you I'm so glad to have found this site.
  • austrianbrandaustrianbrand Member Posts: 4
    Hi car_man,

    read a lot of your comments and I am sure you can help me out here.
    Was looking into leasing (and lease only, for business) a Flex SEL AWD

    Here is the offer i got from dealer and I live in NJ, 07960

    Retail 33920 w/ extras 39035 (incl. dest fee 700)
    savings offered 2702
    sale price 36333
    Net sale w/ all the taxes, doc fee, etc 39700
    Said included 1000 lease cash !?
    down 3500, 12k, 39 months ea. 482

    Is this anything decent ?
    here are my questions:
    with 3500 down where should the monthly rate be ?
    lets say 1500 down, how much should the monthly rate be ?

    Appreciate all the help guys !

    Thx
  • vandyman4vandyman4 Member Posts: 15
    Hi:
    I am in zip code 07004 and got a better deal on a FLEX AWD yesterday. My deal is as follows:
    List 38,300
    sell price $35,369.00
    available rebate from dealer---$750.00
    total out of pocket--$1000.00
    12,000 miles per year, 36 months
    residual---.48
    money factor---.25
    monthly payment---$499.00

    I shopped around and this was the best deal. Let me know if you are interested and I will put you in touch with the dealer. They have a lot of cars and are honest.

    Good luck.
    JON
  • austrianbrandaustrianbrand Member Posts: 4
    Hi Jon,
    what was the stock number you had quoted ?
    What are std's and what optional equip
    Thanks,
  • vandyman4vandyman4 Member Posts: 15
    Hi:
    I don't have stock number in front of me but the car is a SEL AWD Black/black with:
    vista roof
    2nd row 40/40 seats
    SYNC wireless
    no second row console
    rear entertainment

    Thanks,
    JON
    P.S. I am moving from a Caddy and I love the Flex for a family of 5.
  • austrianbrandaustrianbrand Member Posts: 4
    ok just got another offer faxed from same dealer
    they have a demo (think 8500miles) Limited AWD
    Retail 36555 w/ extras 44500 (incl. dest fee 700)
    savings offered 6389
    sale price 38111
    Net sale w/ all the taxes, doc fee, etc 41755
    Said included 1000 lease cash !?
    down 3500, 12k, 39 months ea. 466

    it seems the obviously wanna get rid of the demo cars
    only think i wonder is how (and if) they tack on the 8500 already
    on the car with the 39000 lease miles
    should i even consider leasing a demo with miles on ?
    thx again :)
  • kyrebakyreba Member Posts: 7
    Here's my experience with leasing.....My current Escape had 60 miles on it when I got it. Mycontract says that if I turn it in at the end of the 3 years withmore than 36060 then I will owe for the mileage over that.

    So with the demo you are looking at I'd say your "over" mileage would start at 47,500 (39,000 +8,500). However I would not do a 39 month lease if I were you.

    If you lease for 39 months, you will have to pay the 3rd year registration on the car & only get the benefit of 3 months of the 12 you just paid for. I'd keep it to an even 36 months because anything you save by going 39 mo will be eaten up by that registration payment for sure.

    Just my 2 cents :)
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    So with the demo you are looking at I'd say your "over" mileage would start at 47,500 (39,000 +8,500).

    I'm not sure if this varies by region but here's how it was explained to me a few years ago. The details are a little fuzzy so please correct me if I'm wrong a little.

    To lease a demo (I'm in PA) with the odo reading over some mileage limit, I think he said 2000 miles or somewhere around there, you have to build the mileage into the lease and you basically lose them but still pay for them. Using the example above and starting the lease at 8,500 miles on the Flex, on a 36k mile lease you would really only get to drive it for 29,500 miles (36000 - (8500-2000). After that you would pay for each mile over the limit.

    Salesmen have always steered me away from leasing a demo for this reason. The price is attractive, but make sure you don't need the extra mileage.
  • austrianbrandaustrianbrand Member Posts: 4
    Thansk for both your comments...Indeed I am sure I have to question the dealer about the mileage and the lease mileage. What I was really more concerened is the warranty which is in effect upon registration (or sale)...Since Ford's have 3 year or 36000 miles warranty (which ever comes first) I am sure I would slide into the 36k mileage area within or around the end of the second year...so wouldnt I also take a chance on driving a lease without warranty for the last year ?
  • kyrebakyreba Member Posts: 7
    You could be right. I've never tried to lease a demo car before. I was just using the same principal from how the 60 miles on my current car was handled. However 8,500 is a BIG difference from 60 so I can see where it would be handled differently.

    I think someone told me once that a demo car had to have under 5,000 miles on it to be still sold as new also? Don't know if that's true or not....or if it's a regional thing?

    I'm in SoCal & I'm still trying to work out a good deal for a Flex. I thought I might be able to score a deal on an SEL this last weekend but it is still out of my budget. So I'm back to trying to work the best deal possible on an SE. I know I'l have one by the end of the month but I want it NOW! lol
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