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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

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Comments

  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    6speed chevy cruze is about $17000, 34 mpg for me over 51k miles.
    diesel cruze is about $27000, 40 mpg, wish i had a good excuse to buy one.
    he 6speed gasser a slamdunk.

    new 2015 Colorado stickshift/gas will surely be way less expensive than new 2016 Colorado with diesel. I'll be looking at manual-shift colorado 2.5 as soon as they are available.

    http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2013/11/26/chevy-colorado-to-offer-6-speed-stick
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited November 2013
    It is pretty amazing that with as much money as they make per (FULL SIZED) pick up truck (reputed to be $10,000 to 15,000 per vehicle), that it still is experiencing separation anxiety from the recent tax payer sponsored chapter 11 bankruptcy. Even the FED government has made monies off these bankruptcies. 10k extra for diesel (car) would probably make a great case study in GREED. It isn't like the "less than full sized" PU segment hasn't been around for literally decades.

    They actually got great ratings for the Chevrolet Impala which was based on a discontinued and now recycled Cadillac platform.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    It's going to be hard to break people from just thinking in mpg though.

    Don't even try this with me...it ain't gonna happen. I'll dig my heels in and take mpg to the grave..and this coming from a guy who has vehemently converted litres/100 km since 1978...the year they jammed that crap down our throats.

    Your GPM is...pardon me for being so frank, simply a ridiculous form of measurent, unless you are referring to the fuel economy of a large boat or ship.

    When GPM is used in vehicles that get many many miles per gallon, the entire theory... in all its glorified confusion, gets muddied when it's compounded by vehicles that have fuel capacities that vary wildly. Here you have a VW T which has a much larger than average fuel tank, powered by an extra efficient diesel to exploit its FE, being compared to a (as an extreme example to push my point across) the first Ford Escape V6 4x4 gas jobs that had only a 10 gal tank. With one, you have huge storage and many MPG capability, and the other, grossly inefficient FE with very little storage.

    The only way you could make a (weak) case for GPM, is if you were doing a final tally for a vehicle at year's end, and even then it would really only be somewhat of an indicator if all vehicles had exactly the same size fuel tanks across the board! Like I say...ridiculous..
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    Since you huys are talking about GPM, here is the method of calculating consumption on the very biggest engine possible...a container ship diesel.

    This is usually measured in pounds of fuel per horsepower per hour. Roughly speaking, 0.25 lbs/hp/hr is considered to be pretty good, and 100,000 hp is a low-side estimate of an average container ship's horsepower. This then works out to 25,000 pounds of marine diesel fuel per hour. Marine diesel weighs about 7lbs/gallon, which gets us about 3600 gallons per burned per hour. A common cruise speed is 25 knots or 28.75mph. To make the math easier, let's call it 30mph. What this means is that for a container ship to travel 30 miles, it'll burn through 3600 gallons, which is the same as burning 120 gallons to go one mile . There are 5280 feet in a mile, so if 120 gallons is good for 5280 feet, then one gallon is burned every 44 feet!! It really GOBBLE GOBBLE's a lot of fuel!

    Happy thanksgiving guys!
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    Yes..as soon as I posted that, it occurred to me that fuel was probably measure in weight. Interesting stats. ya know what REALLY shocks me? That those buggers can do almost 30 mph!! Simply amazing..

    Ya, have a good USA Happy Thanksgiving guys! We had ours last month, but I'll enjoy another bird vicariously through you guys this w/e.. :thumb up:
  • ohenryxohenryx Member Posts: 285
    When GPM is used in vehicles that get many many miles per gallon, the entire theory... in all its glorified confusion, gets muddied when it's compounded by vehicles that have fuel capacities that vary wildly.

    Pardon me, but you don't seem to have a clue, not the single, slightest clue, of what you're talking about. The capacity of the fuel tank has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with the GPM. Perhaps you need to go and read the article before you start commenting on it?

    http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/features/mpg-is-stupid.html
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    What will you do if you get an EV? Neither MPG or KPG will mean anything. :D

    Was up the road today; diesel in the sticks was $4.19. RUG is up a little - $3.26 to $3.39, depending.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited November 2013
    Slow news day here also ! Just did a hand wash (VW T TDI) after coming back from snow cleared roads . Seems app 1/4 to 1/2 # of debris was hosed off the wheel wells/undercarriage. I just got off a site where a fellow who has a new Acura RDX gets 22 mpg (21.7 actual) , who incidentally knows how to drive a diesel (13 Passat TDI). So compared to my latest tank @ 31 mpg, the TDI gets 41% better @ 3.79 per gal.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    Pardon me, but you don't seem to have a clue, not the single, slightest clue, of what you're talking about.

    What I failed to portray but meant to, was the PERCEPTION of fuel tank size differences to shoppers, IF they started advertising GPM. People would assume that the bigger the tank, the more fuel that vehicle must use.

    You talk about not reading articles ( I DID) yet your post indicates you didn't read all of mine, instead picking a piece to criticize...oh that's right..that's what your usual practice is..

    So what, I didn't make my point very well, it sure as hell didn't deserve the comment you posted. I might have failed in this example but you have no right to make such a generalized statement about me.

    And.. NO, I WILL NOT PARDON YOU!!! NOT ONE BIT YOU JUDGEMENTAL *******.

    I've noticed something about you. You only post when you want to give someone crap. And you don't hold back much..

    Quit being so quick to jump on people...making such ridiculous blanket statements. How could anyone take you seriously? I will be ignoring ALL of your nonsense.

    I suggest to you the OBVIOUS... ignore my posts in future.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,786
    A peculiar thing happened a few days ago..... road diesel was down to $4/gal! Oh, well, make that $.3999. :P

    That's big news in Fairbanks. It's been a LONG time since diesel was less than (or even at) $4/gal.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    It is a bit odd, usually winter brings higher prices. I always assumed due to competing home heating oil use, but also I think winter diesel has higher stove oil content ($) to help fend off gelling in cold temps.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    There is a benefit spin off of higher mpg combined with larger tanks. But just using the yearly mileage average of Am drivers of (12,000 to) 15,000 miles, the long and short of it: one can stop fewer times @ fuel stations. VW T gasser 22 mpg 682 gals/26= 27 timesTDI 31 mpg 484 gals/26= 19 times.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,786
    Oh, yes. The pumps begin to transition to #1 diesel in the late fall (which is typically the third week of September here) and stay on #1 until mid April. The truck guys (I'm sure the TDI owners out there complain too, but far smaller group) always lament the significant loss of fuel economy simply owing to the fact that #1 has less energy content than #2.

    I have an above-ground storage tank for my home heating system (which is a condensing oil-fired boiler), so I have to use #1 on it. I've never had any supply issues, even at -55F (which is the coldest I've seen at my home, though the valley bottoms have gone a little colder in the eleven years we have lived at our current address).
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    The western states stay with #2 ULSD @ the fuel pumps. It has been/is continues to be well know that fuel mpg suffers in the winter, but I have never really seen a break down as to what % components they separate into.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    The last vehicle I had were I could get a really depenadable comparo, was my big truck. They would start to mix a bit of stove oil in I think pretty early for my area..around Sept. And by Nov it was fullon winter fuel. MPG on the truck dropped from 8.0/8.2 to 6.5/6.8. So IOWs, pretty signifcant loss in BTU. What's that..a little more than 15%?...don't have a calc handy. Of course all of that loss can't all be blamed just on the fuel..but it's a fair chunk responsible.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited November 2013
    I am not sure how the laws apply for ULSD in any to all states, but in CA that would most certainly be against the law, but more importantly could trigger massive fines.

    More recently, (last tank full) I just did a sort of "winter" run and in effect dropped from 1 to 2 mpg, adjusted for exceptions or 3% to 6% (700 miles, app 22 gal/26.4 capacity, aka 1 tankful). FULLY half of that (.5 to 1 mpg) I attribute to different tires. So more like 1.5% to 3%. Now a rule of thumb can be app 10-15% (like you said) . So in that sense, the ( newer diesels) real world, not too terribly bad. Now whether or not that is static over say this upcoming winter, remains to be seen. The first winter had a lot of variables, so even though I know the numbers (not different at all, given the extra variables) , I would tend to discount it.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Is number One diesel ULSD? Not much different than Kerosene or jet fuel. I would think a modern TDI running on any diesel with high sulfer would have problems?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited November 2013
    Wait, you pay over $4 a gallon in Alaska? Doesn't the crude come from there? Or does it have to go to the lower 48 for processing and then back up to Fairbanks?

    In VA for example, Phillip Morris headquarters is in Richmond, so our Cigarette prices are $3.50 while they are $9 in NY (just an example of a heavily taxed and regulated product for comparison).

    Have you driven up the Dalton Highway? Are you secretly an Ice road trucker? These questions burn deep inside me, (by compression of course). LOL.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    I have always found your posts to be informative, and you have always been positive and friendly on the mid-size sedans board. I can't even imagine jumping all over you for anything, even if you are a cranky old %$&#!

    You did not deserve to be treated like that, even if you are Canadian! LOL.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited November 2013
    Then again, Kirstie could have changed his member name to Mellowdudester and we may not be having this conversation. :D

    VW Surprised by the Popularity of its Diesel Models in the U.S. (carscoops.com)

    "VW originally expected 17 percent of Passat sales to be diesels, but the Passat TDI’s share is getting closer to 30 percent."
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    No, and not to my knowledge is #1 diesel ULSD. I would also agree that a modern diesel TDI running other than ULSD would develop issues and problems.
  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    xwesx, as others have mentioned along the way, sorry if repetitive, but to correct your surely-unintentional-misstatements:

    - The winter mixes of diesel for on-road-use in USA are not "diesel #1".
    they remain "diesel #2 with 50 ppm sulfur, up to 500 ppm, same as for on-road diesel in USA prior to 2007".
    - "diesel #1" aka home-heating-oil in USA is probably best discussed in the popular "luxury-mobile-homes-with-oil-heat-furnaces-on-board" forum.

    further corrections are welcomed! happy/safe thanksgiving to all. mine started with a local SUV driver trying to crush/kill me and GF and my GTO , 2 miles from my house, in an intersection which evidently requires full horn for all future transits, but hopefully never again panic-braking/steering-into-curb.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I think there are some misconceptions about Winter diesel blends. Here from Exxon.

    What should I do in the winter to adjust for the cold temperatures?
    We offer winterized product in a majority of markets that experience severe weather conditions. If temperatures fall well below norms for the local area or you will be driving much farther north, additional Diesel Fuel No. 1 blending is recommended.

    Why shouldn’t I just use Diesel Fuel No. 1?
    While Diesel Fuel No. 1 has an advantage in low temperature conditions, there are some disadvantages, as well. The energy content of Diesel Fuel No. 1 is about 95% that of Diesel Fuel No. 2 and will provide a correspondingly lower fuel economy.

    Diesel Fuel No. 1 is also lower in viscosity and provides less lubrication for the fuel pump and fuel distributor.

    http://www.exxon.com/usa-english/gfm/fuels_quality_diesel_faq.aspx

    In the Arctic where I worked for 25 years, they just sold us #1 diesel. Most companies had outside fueling tanks. Much of the winter would be 40 below and #2 diesel will gel. I don't think they have ever sold ULSD up there. It caused our newer diesel PU trucks to spit out errors continuously. The local Ford shops would just reset the computers. I think it messed up the emissions as well. Most of the Arctic villages used the same supply for their home heating and trucks.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited November 2013
    Seems like a good reason why one would not want a State like CA to be a leader ! Any plan that was mandated across the 50 states (using CA as lead) would be an absolute disaster in some to many areas. We are also the state of "boutique blended" fuels. Last time I read an article on the subject blends were at a minimum of 23. When I think back on it it still roils me to think they not do a Smog certification in Santa Barbara with the gasser registered in another county. I had to go 600 miles R/T unnecessarily to get a smog certification. That "little procedure" remains preposterous.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Correction from:

    ..."they not do a Smog certification..."...

    TO:
    they "WOULD" not do a Smog certification...
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    ...... we HOPE !!!!

    On the SOS/ DD trip, starting UP the mountains, I followed up a 6 car (convoy ), in the 7th position (last and no one to the rear) . It was truly amazing to note (almost all cars and) how many times they (individually and collectively) used brakes !!! ??? Even though I got the feeling most of these folks were mountain road "VETERANS." For whatever reasons on the way up, 3 total cars actually pulled out of the way so the "peloton" could motor on. Longer story short 30 mpg on UP grade, 31/32 mpg downgrade (31.8), overnight temps were app 25 F degrees.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited December 2013
    Lots of us will pull over so we won't have to worry that we're impeding someone, or maybe we want to enjoy the view or just want to focus on our driving without stressing about people behind us. Hopefully most people weren't riding their brakes going uphill.

    Don't forget to eat your broccoli.

    "Scientists in the US have shown that dietary intake of glucoraphanin, a compound found in broccoli sprouts, reduces the negative effects of diesel exhaust particles on asthma and allergies."

    Broccoli eases diesel sneezes (Chemistry World)

    (and yes, we do eat broccoli at my house. Probably delivered to the grocery in diesel semis. ;) )
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Don't forget your asparagus either. It de-toxifies your body after absorbing all the carcinogens in gasoline fumes. I think most of our pollution is from wood smoke in the air. Many more people using wood to compensate for the high price of utilities. I know several of my neighbors are already using their wood burners. Myself included.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2013
    LOL ! Yes there were app 6 ahead off me to make sure they were impeding someone else. I held (rear) position just to see what would really happen. The actual reason was to see how I could do staying off the brakes, while following dead last and impeded mpg (posted in the earlier msg) Each time one pulled over, the last position (aka, me) quickly lost sight of their headlights. (my hypothesis was some to all three would wind up on my 6... I was wrong 3/3 times) I probably did forget to mention it was pitch BLACK during this UPGRADE. Not much to see, unless one had powerful military grade night vision goggles!

    LOL ! Yes there were LOADS of brake riding going uphill !! ??

    Actually, we had brought up turkey day leftovers !! (no sense leaving it even longer at home) For some reason I did focus on the yams ! :)

    There are two natural gas fireplaces. They don't "ROAR" like wood burning fireplaces, but they are actually quite efficient. Both have interesting (looking) venting systems. (to the outside) Evidently they were put in according to hoyle, as they have yet to set off the multiple fire/smoke and carbon monoxide units. The main heating is handled by a gas fired radiant (hydronic) system. Other gas fired products are stove, oven, water heater and dryer.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,786
    edited December 2013
    These questions burn deep inside me, (by compression of course).

    Hahahaha; touche!

    Yes, considering that the product is both sourced and refined within 400 miles (15 miles in the case of the refining) of here, it is silly that we pay amongst the highest price in the nation for fuel (exempting California here, sorry Ruking!). But, as they say, petroleum products are global, so the refinery pays the global market price for it. And, since they have a monopoly on the product here, they can charge any price they want as long as it does not exceed the price for any other company to import and store the product from afar.

    We used to consistently pay the national average (that's how the refinery set its prices, as far s I can tell) until the Koch brothers bought the local refinery. Those fellas are shrewd businessmen, and they knew they had us by the unmentionables. :sick:

    And, no, I have not traveled the Dalton (sad, I know, but I would have to drive like 80+ miles north for no reason other than to do this!), nor am I an ice road trucker... even though the latter sounds like fun to me. :)
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited December 2013
    Slacker. Don't tell me you haven't been to Inuvik either? (I'm afraid to ask about Manley).
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2013
    Hey guys, I have long since lost the antifreeze in my blood, when I was living in upstate NY ! Anymore I can almost look at ice and snow on 1080 HD TV and get COLD. :)
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,786
    I'm a total slacker. Maybe it's because I haven't bought a diesel yet, so my adventurous side hasn't come out! :P

    Any tourist to Alaska has seen far more of "the sights" than I ever have. But, then, I've only lived here for half my life now (not counting the first two years of it), so there's still time.

    I did manage to make a trip out to Circle and Circle Hot Springs back in 1999 with my '69 C20. That was a fun trip! Nothing like driving an old 2WD pickup through a 12" snow storm over Eagle Summit. :)
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,786
    You haven't completely lost it! Otherwise, you wouldn't venture up to Tahoe so frequently. :P
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2013
    LOL I just stuck on my down vest looking at the tonight's weather forecast of "light" snow and 2 degrees ! :) With WC more like minus -4 degrees F. It is starting to look like we will have winter this year.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    Hey, thanks for the link. I brought it up over on mid-size sedans 2.0. I think the Passat is the classiest diesel car you can buy for the average North American family.

    It is way nicer (and quieter) than a hybrid, wont embarrass you at a 3 fork dinner, easy to work on (when compared to hybrid), and long lasting. The Passat is just a well respected car.

    My 1996 Passat TDI had all the options (needed back then to spur sales) like heated seats, leather, sunroof, alloys, small boot spoiler, power seats, and a decent stereo.

    The best thing about my TDI? My niece still drives it. It has over 220,000 miles and counting.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    ..."It has over 220,000 miles and counting."...

    Life is good !
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    She called me months ago and asked me why the turbo keeps cutting out, but it has been doing that since I had it at 159k. All you have to do is restart it (it is a 5 speed so I would just put it in neutral and restart it....problem solved).

    I know she should take it in for repair, but on a waitress salary while she is in college there isn't any way for her to afford it anyways.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited December 2013
    Jayrider's comments about Euro car maintenance over there caught my eye earlier (especially since I generally keep my cars more than a decade and they see a lot of deferred maintenance). Loved my Bugs, but my sister had lousy luck with her '00 New Beetle. The dealer experience did improve over the almost 10 years she owned it though.

    People wondered if the decontenting of the Passat would hurt sales but it didn't. The diesel uptake rate has been surprising, but maybe VW fans have been more aware of the TDI options than other brand owners.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2013
    ..."People wondered if the decontenting of the Passat would hurt sales but it didn't. The diesel uptake rate has been surprising, but maybe VW fans have been more aware of the TDI options than other brand owners."...

    It was actually stellar, but still vilified at many levels and many reasons.

    This can easily be verified (so I will leave stats out). However it makes it all the more THE triple "FEAT/s" as the 10 Jetta was the lead dog to be decontented. It sold MORE than 09 contented version. The 09 CONTENTED version even was offered with a IRS tax CREDIT !!!! ??? 1 year BEFORE. The 11 Jetta sold WAY more than 09 contented version and way more than the 10 Jetta decontented version. In the year of the decontented 12 PASSAT, the 12 Jetta sold slightly LESS than the 11 (decontented) Jetta's. It sold more than the contented MY and app @ 22 to 25% TDI's.

    The decontented US market Passat went from literal ZERO to 117k +. So in a manner of speaking, anything less could be seen as a (dual) "letdown."

    So I think some of these twists and turns works in a perverse way to VW's advantage. They are more profitable than their (HUGE) competitors (Toyota, GM )and are making leaps in their market share goals and they are really not on anyone's radar for being so HUGE.

    Strictly from my point of view, they (3) have been both reliable and durable. I probably should throw in there good bang for the buck. Further and I have gotten great deals for ALL three !! ??? To add the kicker, cheap to free money !! So call me a "reluctant " skeptic , as it is hard to NOT integrate some folks BAD experiences with VW's !!!!! So even if I am still skeptical (I am not as folks have gathered) all three TDI's continue to have excellent resale values !!!!! ???? I think if I were starting from diesel scratch I would probably get the Passat TDI. If I had to move on from here, the Golf.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Any tourist to Alaska has seen far more of "the sights" than I ever have. But, then, I've only lived here for half my life now (not counting the first two years of it), so there's still time.

    I think my Alaska days are over. I put in 37 years there and didn't see much that is off the beaten path. Not even Denali park. 25 years in Prudhoe and I got 52 miles down the Dalton a few times fishing. Nice Grayling in those little streams. I have worked in 9 Arctic villages including Barrow. I would not say that is a real treat. Just a real experience. Not going anywhere I cannot drive the Touareg TDI anymore. Unless I were to move to Hilo. Then not much choice but fly.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,786
    I would not say that is a real treat. Just a real experience.

    Yes! That's how I look at it most of the time. My "real treat" comes in the form of winter driving, as I get to enjoy ~6 months of it (this is the time when there is actually snow/ice on the road). I absolutely love driving in inclement weather; the more challenging, the better. :)

    The more I consider what my vehiclular future holds, though, the more I think that it will be a while before I pull the trigger on another car. Hopefully, the diesel options expand greatly in that time (thinking 4-7 years) without gutting the tandem availability of manual transmissions.

    Time will tell.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    One of my best friends lived a good time in Fairbanks. When his wife retired from the school district and he retired from the tracking station they headed for Florida. I don't think they have ever looked back. I don't mind driving on ice and snow, I just don't like getting out of a warm vehicle. I also don't like digging vehicles out of a big snow drift. Did that way too many times in Prudhoe.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited December 2013
    You gotta drive the Dalton. Where else are you going to see a musk ox that's not behind a fence? (granted, the one I saw was road kill...).

    And with a diesel, you could skip Coldfoot and not have to fill up.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    Water vapor is a terrible greenhouse gas, so be sure to drink 3 or 4 gallons of water each day to wash all that greenery down....at the same time you will be doing your part to reduce that horrible water vapor.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    In my 25 years working in the Arctic I only saw the Musk Ox herd close to Prudhoe one winter. Most of the time you would see them close to Kaktovik. The Eskimos claim the white man dumped them in Alaska and they took over the caribou habitat. That did not stop them from killing and eating them of course. Jim Childs, that owned the only store in Prudhoe for many years, killed one and had it stuffed. Then he put a TV inside of it. They had it in their bedroom at the camp. Quite a novelty.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited December 2013
    Some of the lightest, warmest wool anywhere. $98 an ounce.

    A scarf would be overkill in Savannah though, even this time of year.

    Tybee Island police get diesel patrol cars (savannahnow.com)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Sounds like VW gave them a deal to get their foot in the door at $25k each. They have to have heavy duty batteries and alternators, I would think. Diesel is much more efficient idling was well. The local cops never shut theirs down. I see them at the local restaurant running year round. Most here have the Explorers loaded to the gills with electronics. No wonder we are going broke.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    The other thing that caught my eye was the "factory delivery", or so it appears.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    If I am a VW exec I would have played it up to the max. The Passat is probably the safest car in the class, and best mileage to boot. The big plus being Made in USA. I don't think a hybrid would hack it with all the electronics that have to keep running. Only thing close is the Cruze diesel and it is smaller than the Passat. Passat city range is 573 miles, the Cruze diesel only 421 miles.

    I wish our police depts were a little more interested in saving the tax payers money.
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