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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
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Comments
I fear that VW raised the price of (14 VW T TDI) admission $ 6 k because guys like me were running off at the mouth. (so to speak, actually blogging?)
Tha price premium and the others points are HUGE corrections ! Still, I swallow a bit hard saying this, the VW T TDI is probably STILL worth the price of admission.
The following is on point for you and off point for diesel. While I liked the poorly rated oem GY LS2 tires (one reason 14,000 miles per 1/32nd wear) , I am having good luck with and am enthused about the better rated (actually #1 on the current bitt parade ) Continental CC LX20's W/ EPT. It also seems to appear the issue I raised with worse mpg between tires could have been a straw man, really due to newness and other variables and changing conditions. They also seem to steer much more precisely, which may take a tad getting used to.
This city is one of the most affluent in the region and shows no signs of slowing down. Hot industries and scarce land helps for a lot, too. The city leadership itself is of course as inefficient as most of the public sector, but relatively speaking, it is one of the better places to live - and population growth supports that.
So for example, rents in SF, CA (even in the crash) continued to spike. Indeed it is still spiking.
Again not to beat a dead horse, contrast that with.... Detroit. Why pay rent when one can literally SQUAT
More seriously, this might be the bottoming of an old decaying 50 year ending cycle; coming up on a NEW 25/35 year cycle (aka the iconic AMERICAN literally LAND of OPPORTUNITY) for that area, once unions et al, figure out that thug behavior is old in the tooth and not in everyone's, to their best interests. One could probably pick up a sq block with a negotiated deal to get the block on some kind of minimal tax roll.
I found this, wandering around ! The reviewer is a bit clueless, as he fails to make any number of comparisons, which then slants his conclusions. Here are two examples:
1. gasser gasser/hybrid vs TDI Touareg's (mpg's since this seems to be high on his priority lists)
2. how many vehicles @ sub or @ 5k #'s rate a EPA of 20/29 mpg?
3. by a few of his comments it is clear he didn't know how to optimize the diesel differences, hence "acceptable fuel mileage".
4. Now how many folks would make a vehicle decision based on the CON that a cubby interrupts design lines?
I also like the Goodyear LS2 tires. It depends on how well they hold up. I am not a big Goodyear fan. Michelin does not offer a lot in that size. Keep us posted on your Continentals.
It is snowing here in NOVA, and I miss my Grand Cherokee today!
One thing I noticed today. The OEM mud guards on my car are a hindrance in the snow. I had to clear it all out with a broomstick after a 15 min drive, and it must have added 20 pounds of weight per wheel. Then I had to clear it again on the way back.
I do think the new one is the best looking traditional SUV on the market. Then again, I see it through former owners eyes. Anyway, you can see it on my imgur site if you are bored.
http://cski12894.imgur.com/all
If I needed another SUV though it would be diesel. Believe it or not, I saw a BMW X6 on the road yesterday, and I think it looks good to, despite what Jeremy Clarkson said!
Would I have bought it if it were NOT a Porsche bro/sis? Absolutely YES !!
There is a long TMI to the over all answer, if you or the board wants me to post.
TMI: I read an article in passing about the front sway bar that past a certain loading, presses back on the bar to give it a slightly better performance parameter.
Now how this positions itself with the new 14 VW Touareg TDI "R LINE" suspension bits upgrade has been not really DETAILED (written) about.
Not many cars to pass on the way down off the mountain altitude. The fully loaded hay and LOGGING trucks are real pro's. Double tanker (RUG/PUG) trucks deserve mention also. For 106 miles did 34.6 mpg, avg. (I do love that no fuel draw and almost no brake use on way down relatively UNIMPEDED) The roads were at WORST wet, even as the temperatures (25 degrees F ish) could have supported ICE.
TMI, 6,225 ft vs @ 9,300 ft.
... "The vehicle is getting rave reviews, but why was its rollout stalled? Chrysler needed time to fine tune the software driving its nine-speed transmission. (fair enough: (my op/ed)
Why a nine speed transmission? Because of fuel mileage overkill driven by Mr. Obama's new rules, which require Chrysler to increase its fleet average to 54.5 miles per gallon by 2025 from 20.6 last year.
Why do we say overkill? Because the technology adds more in cost than it does in value for consumers, given the declining price of gas. At $3.25, the price of gasoline today per mile traveled, in real terms, is lower than it was in the 1950's. By one academic estimate, gas would have to reach $5.00 before consumers would voluntarily buy the 35.5 mpg cars Mr. Obama requires carmakers to sell in 2016."...
pg. A19, Wed, Dec. 11, 2013, Opinion: Business World By Holman W. Jenkins, Jr. WSJ
This is the "GOOD NEW's ! ?" Read the rest of the article for the REAL EYE openers.
Here is a teaser:
..." Chrysler is a tragedy in the full Greek sense"...
Or maybe it's the speculators, lol. Some of both perhaps, but the real news is the glut of supply. You have to wonder if people have slowed their driving down a bit.
In other news, a VW dealer in the SoCal area told me this morning that diesel penetration is relatively low for his area. Everyone wants a Prius.
So for example if I do 15,000 miles per year (higher avg US driver mileage) @ 15 mpg AND do it going forward on 30 mpg, I am using HALF the gals (1000 before, 500 gals after). What that does tell me are the systems are experiencing real PAIN @ the new Prius mpg, even as the systems tells everyone they should get Pious or better mpg, while they disallow them from the market NOW.
So for example, VW can bring any number of much higher mpg cars to market NOW (with off the shelf technology !!!! ). The really wild thing is they could have done it a minimum of 1 decade AGO !! ??? However, they would have/ will be severely punished for doing so. My 03 Jetta TDI 50 mpg + is a good OLD example.
Pious mpg needed 10 years of constant improvement and redesign to get to 50 mpg.
If you had listened to the SO CAL enviro con mantra all of the So Cal pollution was caused only by a hand full of VW TDI's. Priuss of course would clean up So CA air !! Clearly, those characterizations were and remains preposterous !!!
It would be interesting to know the details as to So CA VW sales and diesel " % laggards". What that also tells me is there is a certain amount of contempt for the enviro con goals and rules. (Hollywood Hypocrisy?)
The other story I heard this week was how someone (a dealer, not corporate, supposedly), got eight or ten celebs to show up at the Academy or other big-whoop awards show in black Prius limos. Instant "green" cred for the celebs and wonderful advertising for the Prius.
The backstory is that the celebs transfered into the Prii a block away from their armored Tahoes for the short ride to the red carpet.
So yes, those unintended consequences are normally what the systems are solving for. So for two more (CAR) examples, MTBE and ethanol. Both are and continue to be almost unmitigated disasters in dollars and have exacted the complete opposite of environmental cleanliness. We are STILL paying for the mitigation costs and effects of MTBE. The same will probably be true of ethanol ! They really give practical science a bad name. Indeed, if one looks at SO CA the bad air (spare the air days) are more prevalent than in the good ole "disaster days of Environmental Armageddon. "
Remember the International CXT pick-up truck we brought you way back when? Well we figured it would be a hit in the industrial market and as a promotional item like we saw last fall. But now it seems the CXT is in the hands of celebrities. Folks like Ashton Kutcher and Jalen Rose actually ponied up and bought one while others like Nick Lachey and Jay Leno just test drove the suckers (and I guess got their photos taken too). West Coast Customs is even working on a tricked out version with monster rims. We're just hoping this is the shortest trend of all time.
The semi-clone should offer even better security than a Tahoe. And you can tow your fifth wheeler dressing room around with you.
Woody Harrelson lives off-grid in Hawaii and his plug-in Toyota RAV4 is his pride and joy, reports the London Sunday Times.
Harrelson keeps the Toyota in Los Angeles, but his main home is in Hawaii, where he has a VW Beetle that runs on biodiesel, and a motorbike, which he presumably has no choice but to run on dirty old petrol.
I met a man in a torrential rain storm south of Seattle on our way home back in September. He was in a map shelter waiting out the weather while his sport bike sat about twenty feet away refueling.... with electricity! Amazingly (to me, anyway), Washington has electricity refueling stations at many of its rest areas along I-5, and this guy was recharging his electric bike. He said he usually gets 60-100 miles out of it, with a top speed of 110 MPH (I hope I'm remembering those numbers correctly). He said he had only gone about 30 miles, with another 25 remaining before he reached his destination, when he decided to refuel as a way of doing something productive while he waited out the weather.
So, I guess if Woody is using a "petrol" bike, he doesn't have to do that anymore unless he chooses to do so! :P
That's a new term for a rest area for me.
This will make for good one-to-one comparisons:
Is Ford planning diesel- and hybrid-powered Mustangs? You bet (digitaltrends.com)
Here is a graph of the "lessening" fuel growth . When in fuel decline, aka lessening prices time for a car driven.... VACAY !!
The questions I would have are:
1. how much per mile driven (fuel)
2. cost per KWH ?
3. the costs difference between the two
4. Another would be if one applies minimum $15 per hour to real wage standards (say a UPS longer haul driver) for wait time, that also needs to be be included, which is probably overlooked.
To me the signal that Congress would have been serious was to legislate and get the enforcement agencies to certify a TDI engine capable of running 100% biodiesel. Ethanol may already be in a state of "ARRESTED DECAY"
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=18615&id=31577&id=22016&id=- 31767
1. Cost to fuel: Even though the '03 & '12 Jetta TDI with manual transmissions get in the mid 40's MPG based on consumer averages, so does the '06 & '12 Prius. In fact, the Prius has been improving with their models, while Jetta TDIs have been going down in MPG. And even if TDIs and Prius are both averaging 45mpg but you're paying $.50 to $1.00 more per gallon for the diesel, that will add up.
2. Transmission: most people don't want to use a manual transmission, and VW TDI automatics are only averaging in the upper 30s MPG, so you lose the parity with the Prius MPG if you go with the TDI automatic.
3. Reliability: Any statistics you look at will consistently rate Toyota, and specifically the Prius, as one of the most reliable cars in the market:
http://www.hybridcars.com/toyota-prius-tops-reliability-chart/
I have yet to see VW or TDIs with similar steller ratings.
4. Emissions - if you look at the "Energy and Environment" tab on fueleconomy.gov, you'll see that TDIs get a 6 rating with the Prius getting a 9 rating.
5. Total Ownership costs based on initial cost, maintenance costs, repairs, mpg, resale, etc.
http://www.clarkhoward.com/news/clarkhoward/cars/more-american-cars-top-list-che- apest-own/nDPc8/
That being said, a jetta tdi, especially the sport wagon version, isn't a bad car to own, especially if someone does most of their driving on the highway (although my '06 Prius consistently gets 50+mpg on the highway as long as I'm in the 65mph range). And I completely admit that a Jetta handles better and uses more quality materials inside, although VW has been recently been skimping in those areas recently. But I think if you simply look at #1-5 above, you'll see why the Prius is the better car in those areas, and I guess folks prioritize their car buying in #1-5 above over the better handling TDI.
And there's still the perception (inaccurate) of stinky diesels out there, as well as the reality of the higher diesel price posted at every gas pump.
Indeed the 12 Highlander hybrid posts 25.2 mpg, while the VW Touareg TDI posts 28 mpg. The 12 Highlander Hybrid AWD weighs - 212 #'s LESS than the VW Touareg TDI AWD.
The truth is the Prius in its minority sales status exists so that Toyota can sell its gas guzzling "light" TRUCKS IAW EPA rules.
While I think bob mighta been trying to compare fairly, the two biggest glaring omissions do still count quite a bit. The other big glaring omission is that while he points out that if doing a lot of hwy, the TDI might be the better choice, he diminishes credibility by then stating that his Prius gets 50+, but the big difference is, he has to baby it (something he did not say) and he MUST keep it under 65 mph. The TDI does not have to be babied and delivers superior MPG well above the highest speed limits. Now if we were to talk about hilly terrain, his comparo then falls on the rails even worse.
I'm glad he acknowledged the superior handling of the TDI, even if he did fail to mention the TDI not only rides better but is much quieter inside too.
But all that said...there is a place for hybrids like the Prius in this world, but their strengths are for city stop and go. For all-around-use tho, they are hard-pressed to compete with a TDI. And IF they gave them the same amount of GO as a TDI, it simply wouldn't be a contest at all...and they'd be back struggling to make their case, even in the city.
And..bob..the DSG auto doesn't demand the MPG penalty the 6 sp Steptronic does.
Also..I guess we can assume it would take an awful lot for him to buy a diesel. Maybe if he were to live in extremely cold climates with mountainous terrain and had to tow a small trailer on a regular basis, he might consider one, lol
..."But all that said...there is a place for hybrids like the Prius in this world, but their strengths are for city stop and go. For all-around-use tho, they are hard-pressed to compete with a TDI. And IF they gave them the same amount of GO as a TDI, it simply wouldn't be a contest at all...and they'd be back struggling to make their case, even in the city. "...
Evidently this "logic" has eluded the folks who do taxicabs in cities: like NYC, for at least a decade (2003 Prius was one of the first ). The % of hybrids is not anywhere CLOSE to 100%, or a simple majority for that matter. Police and fire (vehicles) most certainly have IGNORED hybrids (Prius) also.
The comparison between a Highlander Hybrid and the Touareg TDI could be more apples to apples. The Highlander manages to get 7 seats into the same 188 inches as the Touareg. Seems crowded to me. The Sequoia at over 200 inches was not bad in the back row. Looking at Fuelly the Highlander Hybrid is not in the same league as the T-Reg TDI. Not a lot of Highlander posters to compare. Only 2 hybrids for 2013. Best one getting 24.6 MPG and the other 22.8 MPG. Evidently Touareg TDI owners are proud of their mileage. There are 29 diesels posted for the 2013 model alone. Both from the USA and Canada. I am about in the middle with an over all average of 26.6 MPG. They range from a low of 22 mpg to a high of 32 MPG.
So let's compare the two.
Range:
T-Reg TDI 700 miles
Highlander Hybrid 400 miles
Towing:
T-Reg 7700 lbs
HH 3500 lbs
0-60 MPH:
T-Reg TDI 6.9 sec
HH 7.2 sec
2013 Prius C 10.7 sec
If you have 5 kids better get the Highlander. If you want to cruise all day at 80+ MPH and still get great mileage get the VW Touareg TDI. Fastest way across TX.
In no particular order..steve, ruking, gagrice, fintail, cski, wes, and I think a few others too..but please don't take offense if I missed a few other obvious ones by name.
I think our usernames here transfer over to the other platform as the same name?
Anyway, it's been fun..hopefully we'll catch you guys over there.
Cranky :thumb up:
But in case the Matrix swallows us whole, thanks and likewise!
Who wudda thunk?
Of course driving it like that, it'd drink more than an RR or Lambo 12 jug..
As for the THH and the RXH umph, I'll betcha they're geared to really perform in that speed range. Probably the first three gears gets you to 60 and they will be closely spaced. I'll bet the fun really falls off fast much north of 75 or so. I assume they're 6 speeds? Surely not CVTs..
I suspect the VW T (TDI) would just walk away from them at a 100. Maybe even from 90 and up.
What speed is the T at about 3500 revs in 4th? What about 5th?