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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

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Comments

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    I say send the Teamsters in to clean up the Mexican drug war. ;)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Good idea - let them work side by side with Pinkertons. :D
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    We already know how it worlked out in the Chicago area some years ago ! ;)
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited November 2012
    ..."It boggles the mind to think someone would buy a VW Gasser

    The 2.slow and 2.5l 5 banger aren't the best gassers around. VW has better turbos, the 1.4TFSI and 2.0TFSI are competitive.

    So for economy you go diesel, but for performance I can see why people get the 2.0T.

    Will get more interesting as VW starts to offer more modern gassers, let's see if those catch on.

    The 2.slow makes for a good boat anchor, but that's about it."...

    I think one can put this to almost ANY gasser engine line. It is just that each oem does not have diesel options to compare them against.

    So for example, one has to wonder (we do know, but I think you know what I mean) why Mazda had to (literally and figuratively) reinvent their line of engines and give it that the skyactiv moniker which is nonsensical even in explanations.

    More to the topic at hand, diesel engine variants such as 4 cylinder 2.0 L, 6 cylinder 3.0L, are really the equivalent of a Toyota/GM V8, relatively bullet proof, bedrock and bread and butter, etc.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited November 2012
    ..."Diesel has an image problem and it's not just the price differential. Every time a pickup driver "blows his nose", there's another lost TDI sale."...

    As a NON pick up truck driver, that affects me?? ... how? Even if PU trucks (1,150,1500 designations) came with diesel engines, I most likely would not buy a pick up truck. I certainly have not bought a 2,25,2500 up designation TDI "light truck." I think we both realize what might be logical is not necessarily what is/ remains and comes to pass?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,143
    Over 1000 miles now on my A8 diesel rental. Averaging low 30s mpg, not bad for such a big sled with AWD, and lots of 100mph autobahn cruising.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Way cool ! Audi (albeit more expensively) does it right ! The 8 cylinder gassers (US) is rated 18/28 mpg so 25% more (your mid 30's) in a diesel is way good.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Carbon monoxide is the odorless killer. Get in a closed garage with a Prius running and you will die much quicker than with a VW TDI.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Funny how the envirocons totally ignore that !?
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    What new regulations. The Mexican trucks have been crossing back and forth here for over 10 years. And yes those diesels blow a lot of black soot into the air. As do many contractor trucks that go down to TJ and fuel up their 100 gallon auxiliary tanks at about half the price of USA diesel. The Feds started allowing Mexican truckers to go beyond the 25 mile limit last year. They still have no good way to test for the 500 PPM sulfur diesel they fill with in Mexico. Many trips can be made without ever buying our over priced diesel fuel. The Feds have made too many deals and lame rules that hurt working Americans. The EPA is a worthless over paid bunch of losers. Time to dismantle that agency. They have done enough damage the last decade to our economy. They have far surpassed the point of diminishing returns. The air would be clean if they enforced the rules currently in place. They want to just keep making more rules that only honest Americans are forced to live with.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Who idles their cars? Best way to warm up a car is to get in and drive it (gently, for the first mile).

    Oh yeah, semi truckers and wannabe big riggers in their dually diesel trucks idle all the time. What is it about a diesel that makes it so difficult to start anyway?
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I think most idle them to keep the truck cab warm when they stop for some shut eye. It sounds like MI is well behind in enforcing the laws on the books concerning diesel emissions. CA is testing all diesels registered in the state. Of course foreign and out of state are free to pollute. Along with the host of Chinese trinket ships coming into Long Beach for distribution across the country. I think Californians should be able to sue the other states for absorbing the other states portion of the pollution from the bunker oil burning behemoths unloading in our harbors. How about an extra $50 for pollution on every iPhone and iPad that comes into our state from China? :P
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited November 2012
    Of course foreign and out of state are free to pollute. Not according to my link. You have a better one perhaps?

    They truck stops have (or should have) plug ins for the cabs. Doesn't explain why the local pickup truck drivers do it so much.

    Why isn't GM buying in? Too many bad memories from the 80s? Surely they have the tech from the pickups to get some diesels in the passenger fleet and help their CAFE average. Maybe they are, but 500,000 seems like a pretty big number.

    GM goal: 500K with electrification by 2017 (Detroit Free Press)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The EV strategy is all political BS. GM better get a move on. They have sold 19k Volts through October. If they reach the Volt target of 25k what are the other 25k electrified vehicles they are talking about being sold this year? They are supposed have a Cruze diesel ready to go. I know Rocky keeps claiming it will be here very soon. Same for Jeep and their GC diesel. I think they took a page out of the Microsoft book of promises.

    I would imagine your local diesel truck drivers are using farm diesel which is not all that clean yet. Better for those older diesel PU trucks than ULSD. If you ran that farm diesel in your new VW TDI you would wish you hadn't.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    That stuff should be dyed and result in big fines if you are caught driving around with it, right?

    Tell Rockford hello and ask him to pop in with the lowdown sometime. Be curious to see what the people actually making the engines say.
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    edited November 2012
    ..and come back to 50 posts that remind me of Chevy Chase counterpunching Jane Curtin with his "ignorant slut" rebuttals.

    "Dammit, ruking1, diesel kills". "No, Steve, you ignorant host, gas kills".

    It's kind of fun reading this without having to sign up for a pay-per-view account.

    All I know is that our X5d hasn't killed anyone, save for a squirrel that couldn't make up its mind on which side of the street looked better. And it doesn't billow out anything that resembles a Mexican panel truck. On the other hand, I don't think it really has a $8,000 added cost buried in it's sticker price, as it cost $1,500 LESS than the X5 3.5i after BMW's generous eco-credit. I'd like to think BMW is being philanthropic to me personally, but unlikely. And, according to the BMW folks I talked to down at the Performance Delivery Center, they'd like nothing more than to have the 380 hp M-diesels available here in the USA to tear up their track in Spartanburg. They put at least as much of the blame on dumb American misconceptions and biases holding BMW corporate back, as on regulatory stupidity (although there is definitely some of that, too).

    I have a solution. Ruking1 puts his nose up to my X5d exhaust pipe. Steve puts his up to our MDX exhaust pipe. First one that falls over or throws up loses. I'll post the video on a pay site and split the profits with the winner and the loser's estate.

    Cheers, guys. ;)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    too funny :shades:
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Once again, we're showing our ages. :D

    Oops, gotta run, the timer on the Bass-o-matic just went off. Fish stew tonight.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,504
    edited November 2012
    It's kind of fun reading this without having to sign up for a pay-per-view account.

    Up to a point, perhaps. It's even more fun not reading most of it. You can get through this board in a hurry if you look only for the posts from others.

    Thanks for being one of them. Overall, this is an interesting board, given that caveat.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    You would be a better candidate !
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited November 2012
    We probably should link this one to Auto News, but it's more of a fans discussion. And it has been too quiet the last few months. The host over there drives a big honking rig. And we don't let KC forget it, lol. :-)

    Diesels in the News
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited November 2012
    In worse than normal commute traffic ( 45 miles/90 R/T, had to go to SFO during the BIGGEST travel DAY of THE YEAR) the mpg (rose to) 31.5 mpg !

    Seems the 8 speed transmission (mated to the diesel and zero fuel draw on no throttle and deceleration) , once "decoded" actually aids better mpg !! ??? I think this thing is wearing real well on us !
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Is it hard to go back to driving the Jetta after the Touareg. I know I hate driving my wife's LS400. Rather be in my PU or the Sequoia.
  • alltorquealltorque Member Posts: 535
    Chevy Cruze is alive and well here in UK, and Europe. 2.0 diesel, MT or AT. Saloon, (Sedan), Estate, (Station Wagon), or Hatchback. Have a friend with a Saloon version and he loves it. GM, (Vauxhall/Opel), have a big variety of diesels this side of the pond and they form a large % of sales. UK prices may well make your eyes water though..............and ULSD is circa $8.24 per US Gallon equiv, at to-days ex-rate. Happy motoring ! :cry:

    Link to Cruze below.

    Cruze'n The UK
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    A decked out Cruze wagon with the big diesel and Auto would sell for about $33k USD. Heck of a lot less than a Volt. If you want less power and higher MPG it would be under $30k. They are supposed to be here someday????
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    why Mazda had to (literally and figuratively) reinvent their line of engines and give it that the skyactiv moniker which is nonsensical even in explanations.

    If we look past the marketing those cars actually do produce very good real-world economy without the cost of diesel and without the complexity of hybrids.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Yes the 8 speed A/T really trumps the 6 speed DSG AND the 5/6 speed M/T , ALL three being stellar products. The bottom line is WAY less brake use and the ability to pay far LESS attention !! The only secret here is IF you don't tailgate, the 8 speed transmission is worth its "weight". When you do mess up or tail gate, it is a simple thing to use the "sequential shifter." The deceleration actually engages the ZERO fuel draw !! ??
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm following this car because if my van were totalled today it would make it on my short list, but...

    From fuelly:

    195 Prius V owners - 42.4 MPG average
    11 C-Max hybrid owners - 39.7 MPG average
    206 (2012 MY) Jetta SW TDI owners - 36.5 MPG average

    C-Max is supposed to get 47mpg combined. Let's see if that improves as they break in, but it seems like Ford is guilty of too much optimish.

    I'm kinda bummed, I'd short list that car, yet it's well below expectations.

    Prius V and Jetta both exceed their claimed EPA numbers.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited November 2012
    I take it from your post the (one of the)reason/s you keep your van is because you own it and the economics, despite the fuel use makes sense to keep it. The obvious size differences do not make sense, aka that is REALLY apples to rutabagas.

    SLOW news day ULSD $3.99.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I don't regret buying the van for a minute - it seats 8 and can fit the entire state of Delaware in the cargo area.

    For my next vehicle I may be ready to downsize, however.

    Then again, maybe not, we're still car pooling for hoops practice. I take 4 ten year olds, and they can't sit in the front seat, so a 3rd row is still needed.

    I wish Ford offered their slightly bigger van here.

    FWIW....

    1 carpool van getting 27mpg beats 4 cars getting 80mpg, even 100mpg for that matter.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited November 2012
    But one car pool van getting 30% more than 27 mpg is certainly better. In that sense don't move that gasser guzzler an inch till it has 9 folks ! ;) But as I said in past posts, nobody (but you) really cares. :shades: Nor ultimately, does it really matter.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "Classic car owners in France are up in arms over sensational new proposals to ban their cars from Paris streets by September 2014.

    If the Socialist mayor of Paris, Bernard Delanoe, gets his wish, any cars built before 1995 would be outlawed from the city streets."

    Paris Looking To Ban Classics and Clunkers From City Streets (Inside Line)

    So what does this have to do with buying diesels?

    "Critics have also pointed out that the real cause of city pollution in France is the prominence of diesel cars, but taking decisive action there would be truly politically unpalatable and in the past has caused mass protests and strikes."
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    How many French cars would still be running that were built before 1995? France will be like Greece shortly. Anyone with money would be crazy to stay. If we had let the Russians take them over they would have a whole different perspective on Socialism.

    Why don't they do like London? Just charge $15 a day to drive in Paris. That would cut down on traffic it seems. Of course the French would never adopt an idea the Brits came up with.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    lol. You forgot the suggestion that they all have to drive in reverse. That'll slow 'em down a little too. Interesting that the Greens don't like the idea either and they aren't the ones pointing their fingers at diesels apparently.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited November 2012
    The Greens don't like it because they all drive 30 year old VW Micro buses. :shades:
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited November 2012
    That burn biodiesel. From the French fries. :D
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Did VW ever offer a diesel bus? Do the French even grow potatoes?
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited November 2012
    Having said that, three things that would seem to benefit a 9 passenger "mini" van would be indeed that diesel engine mated to a much more durable transmission and much better brake pads and rotors.

    For as versatile as a 9 passenger mini van has been/is/ remains and for a "high" mpg (Odyssey, EPA 28 H) as you say it delivers, one would expect a broader application, market share.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    You can get up to 12 seats in the MB Sprinter van with a diesel engine. Should get pretty good mileage. I got 25 MPG with my Sprinter Conversion van that was longer and heavier.

    http://www.mbsprinterusa.com/sprinter/passenger-van/warranty/2500-standard-roof-- 144-wb/9
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited November 2012
    Again another example of diesel engine and great transmission match offering a much better versatility. Indeed the mini van prices (Honda Odyssey Touring/Touring Elite ) overlaps (41,330 to 43,825) with the MB 12 passenger "people mover". The link provided starts off an MB @ 40,320 MSRP.

    Strictly on mpg/100 miles per "butt" 100 miles/28 mpg= 3.57 gals/9= .3968 gal per butt 51 oz vs 100 miles/25= 4 gals (obvious .43 gal MORE) /12 =.3333 gal or 42.67 oz , or 20% more GASSER fuel usage !? ;)

    So gasser: 1. 20% more fuel 2. less versatile, 3. can cost more to aquiire. 4. etc. ;) :lemon:

    So in my anecdotal case, that would be the whole Girls Volleyball team gear and three adults or Girls basketball team, bench and two adults gear. :shades: ;)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,143
    More old cars in France than Germany, but indeed, but I would easily guess less than 10% of the fleet is so old - and probably less on brutal urban streets. Desperation move by overmonied goody goody bleeding heart politicos who probably own multiple vehicles with large engines and live in undeserved energy swilling mansions.

    France is very lucky to have people who work living next door.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited November 2012
    Modern urban planning has long since had the policy of separating the people's and the peoples living and working locations. In many cases , any to all systems are anathema to combine/combining them. France for example has many cities/urban locations 240 years and older. Needless to say this is older than our country (1776). Although, I have lived in places where people talk like The French and Indian War (1754–1763) was not a real long time ago.

    So for example, the modern day "outer edge" so to speak is app 1.5 miles per trip 3.0 miles R/T (radius/SL). Another reality check is out of say 100 folks who follow this board what is the break down of folks who live @ or less than 1.5 miles? Out of those that actually do live 1.5 miles or less to work, what percentage of those actually do walk?

    Since you have politicized the discussion, i.e., how many MAYORS of say major cities (NYC, WASH DC, Chicago, SF, LA, Boston, etc) walk to work?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The Ody Touring is overpriced, most vans sell for high 20s low 30s. Mine was just $25k.

    The Sprinter is not refined enough, too big, too costly to be truly mainstream.

    I'd be more interested to see Ford's new small van with a diesel.

    Fuelly's average is just 16.9 mpg for the Sprinter, not exactly numbers to brag about.

    I'll be nice and not compare those average to my 30+mpg trips since that's apples to oranges.

    But no way, no how is a Sprinter using 20% less fuel than I do. Far from it.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited November 2012
    Yes I think that point is past painfully made, albeit, unknown consequences to Honda.

    Sprinter not refined enough? I think you are ignoring the bullet proof ness and purpose built attributes.

    It seems that attitude is rampant, in Ford diesels' case prohibited from hitting US markets.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Where did you find mileage figures for the MB Sprinter diesels. I think they are better suited to airport shuttle and Fedex delivery. Though my RV conversion was quite comfortable out on the highway. With this one you could take the whole team in luxury.

    http://sprintervans.fusz.com/?gclid=CMazyJfs27MCFXCmPAodw3IAZg
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It's a sledge hammer when most people just want a regular claw hammer.

    I'd rent a Sprinter if I had a large group of more than 8, though.

    For day to day use, it would be a squeeze to fit in my car port and I'd have to move the recycling bin and trash cans.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Just used fuelly, I'm not surprised since they are a lot bigger, too big for most uses.

    I agree with you that they make a perfect shuttle.

    I've rented Ford E series vans for big family reunions and those are awful - trucky, bouncy live axles that make the kids get car sick after a while. We had 2 kids get sick last summer in that manner.

    We had a caravan with my Sienna, and rented Sienna, and older 2002 Ody, and a big E series van. The kids would virtually fist fight to see who got to ride in the other vans.

    If we did that trip again I'd look for a Sprinter instead of the E series, which feels like a 30 year old design.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited November 2012
    We obvious disagree here, even as if it is bigger. If that had been available in (1987/1991/1994) another time frame, I would have actually have gotten IT, instead of the various TLC's. Larger (15/150/1500 etc) large vans were available then as now (time era that you describe). They were and remain far, far "more crude" than the MB Sprinter TDI you label as "crude".

    This is just a guess on my part but given its 25 mpg (vs anywhere from 10-15 mpg) it would have been way more economical to keep it for 400,000 miles+ !! Again just on mileage and mpg that is 16,000 gals vs 40,000 gals to 26,667 gals.

    On the mpg metric alone @ 4 per gal the savings are anywhere from$ 42,668 to $96,000. I think you would agree that would be a no brainer.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    http://www.autoblog.com/2012/11/19/honda-unveils-new-diesel-for-overseas-civic-w- ill-it-come-here/

    118 horsepower and 221 pound-feet of torque. It is made up of aluminum block and cylinder heads, and according to Honda, is the lightest diesel engine in its class.

    fourth-generation Garret turbocharger, which features a variable-nozzle design. The speed of the turbo is also electronically controlled to optimize fuel efficiency and minimize turbo lag

    The first RD-X had a turbo like that and turned out to be not-so-good on gas, so we'll see.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm comparing the current Sprinter, which is very much a truck. A nice truck, sure, but still a truck.

    Then look at the car-based Odyssey, drive then back to back. It's like driving a tall Accord, not at all trucky.

    There's no way the average soccer mom (or dad) would be as comfortable driving a Sprinter.
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