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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
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Other makes offer the option but usually force you to compromise packaging or you can't get a manual or even both.
Audi is close, available on most.
Otherwise, get real 4WD.
The 2013 Rav4 is AWD and not 4WD. Toyota pulled a fast one on us there.
The cheapest 4WD that I know if is the Jeep Patriot as it has a diff lock and can be put into full-time AWD (AWD with a diff lock OR that has dual transfer cases is roughly equivalent). The older RAV4s had that as well, which made them a favorite of many in the winter.
As for a 4Runner? 4WD or just wheel yourself into that retirement home already.
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee First Drive
If not for the CA chain control requirements, in all likelihood I would have NOT gotten (another) 4WD, even as you know the TLC's are. Even less so is the need for AWD. (for my .02cents of course) Many see either and or both as wanted and needed options. Depending on what vehicles one choses, in some cases neither are options... really.
GM - Ecotec
Ford - EcoBoost
Ford has done the best marketing so far, lets see.
35k miles is a quick break even if they prove reliable.
I doubt you intended to say this as literally as it is read? It's a contradiction to be sure..
Any greater than 2 wheel drive system, no matter how it is configured or dumbed-down clutching engagement percentage, certainly can and does help prevent getting stuck, and make the difference climbing your steep drive home everyday after a long tiring day at work and unloading the groceries from the car to the door rather than making numerous trips carrying them up from the bottom of your drive. And also not being able to even plug the car in that night for the cold start the next morning...(my drive is 700' long).
And if it gets "you unstuck or moving again" that sure isn't useless in my books.
I have had practically every AWD, 4WD system there is on my hill in very very challenging conditions..even my bros Audi A8 one winter, and while some are better than others, every single system gets the car up the hill in 12" of fresh powder, or 6" of wet heavy mild mush...conditions that leave a 2 WD or FWD, completely out of its element.
Another condition example...after a fairly average winter swing conditions of snow, traffic packed, more snow, traffic, then a mild spell, then rain, and the rain reveals the hardpacked base underneath which is actually just one big glare iced surface underneath it all. Then late in the afternoon, the winds come up, the temp dips severely while a cold front dominates and by 6pm, there is 3" of fresh powder on top of your skating rink for a road. We're talking so slippery you have to walk up the edges of the snowbank in order to walk up.
Whenever someone scoffs at the suggestion that NO ONE actually needs AWD or 4WD drive, I think of the many times those exact conditions I mentioned above, and would love to invite them over with their 2WD or FWD and have them eat their words..
So..with all that said...I have never not been able to get up my hill with every AWD or 4x4 system I or friends/family have had. This includes the so-called inferior system on my CRV, or your newer Rav4 example. The Subaru sponsored You Tube that floats around the net showing CRV's and Rav4's and Ford Edge's etc etc all being stuck on roller bearing ramps, while the infamous Subaru's navigate the ramp every time, I think are fixed somehow. And even if they are legit, their test is basically a non-issue in the real world conditions of why people buy/want/need AWD. Perhaps if your driveway was in fact made of rollers, maybe the Sube is superior...who knows..but since it is not made of rollers and even the most perceived inferior systems still manage the worst possible real world slippery conditions just fine, then I think there is a level of hoopla about some systems being so superior to others on hill climbs.
Lastly, the one area that I do believe some AWD systems can be superior, are if you are trying to win a Rally race in the slop. I have even had Subaru's also and even those easily oversteer (no worse nor better) in a slippery snowy corner if you are pushing it a bit, and requires backing off the throttle to get the front end to regain grip. In the real world, this type of behaviour (behavior) should be considered acceptable, because if it is that slippery out, then people shouldn't be pushing the envelope anyway...they still can't brake any better..
And in this type of world, even the most..so-called inferior AWD system, still gets you:
- up the hill
- even towing a trailer with skinny little 8" tires digging in fighting you all the way
- with a 900 lb load on it
- and gets you through that dense snowbank the plow left you with (assuming you don't highside it..no system can work if your tires are off the ground)
And the inferior CRV system can still do all of the above.
Was the 88 Camry I had with viscous coupling and locking diff option, better? Ya, just a little. Was my 89 Subaru XT6 better than the CRV? Nope, not one perceptible bit. In fact, my 03 Matrix AWD actually managed my hill and those extra challenging conditions a little better than the Sube did. Both had All Seasons...maybe the difference was in the rubber. I forget what the Sube had, but the Matrix had Good Year GA's I think.
Matrix used a simple viscous coupler system too..simple, cheap, effective. I actually wish the Honda did too. Save me from having to replace the "dual pump fluid" in the rear end every 15000 or 20000 miles. I suspect the viscous coupler systems use less fuel too.
In my experience 4WD more than paid for itself when I sold the vehicle. In GM PU Trucks 4X4 was usually about $1500 more. When you go to sell it all comes back and then some.
While none of the engines are a bad choice, make ours an Ecodiesel. And then point us to the nearest patch of slickrock. This is the way to go in a 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee.
Those are the same folks that come to have you pull them out of the ditch when their FWD did not get them up the hill.
I guess at the end of my book, I should have mentioned that for the easily vast majority of people, even who drive winter regularly, 2WD and a good set of 4 snows gets the job done for them, and is a $ saver all the way around..to buy, to maintain, to fuel..
In fact, I appreciate that many don't buy AWD, cuz we'd just have that many more incompetents that would have all this great 'go' traction, but be ramming/slamming into us from not being able to stop or corner any better..
There's a joke around these parts, and probably many other cities that have winter..on the first wintery day of the season the very first vehicle up against the guardrails or down in the median strip is always a Ford Explorer, with a driver sitting in it with a "duh...wuh happened" look..
GM - Ecotec
Ford - EcoBoost
Reminds me a bit of all the other marketing catch phrases:
"Clean Coal"
"Clean, safe, affordable" (nukes)
"Clean-burning alternative fuel" (natural gas)
"Clean-tech" (wind/solar/biofuels)
"BlueTEC clean diesel" (or Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel, if you prefer)
"ULEV, SULEV, PZEV, ZEV"
In other words, be green, buy a new car and drive more. Give it about 5 more years before the greenwashing backlash hits the automakers.
The thing is, that AWD on most vehicles simply is only good fro crawling up a driveway or hill. It's useless when you're going at speed and won't help you in rain, snow, ice, or other road conditions as they simply transfer power and react too slowly.
4WD is always engaged so it's fantastic if you are running down a country road in winter. So is Audi and Subaru's system. Everything else might as well be FWD the second you go around a corner or hit a patch of ice. Maybe the stability control will save you. I'd rather not need for it to kick in in the first place.
If one can separate that out, it very definitely has "the CUV look" all the way around.
The only downside I can figure thus far is that the drivers of 4WD pickups sure don't appreciate me "out-driving" them in my little car. :P
XL1 powertrain in an Up!.
2 cylinder diesel electric plug-in hybrid. That's a mouth ful.
Hey, that's a perk! haha A little humility will do them some good..
But this is the one that does not come in the diesel right?
zzzzzzzzzzzzz
Wow, do I ever like the idea of that VW Up. A real handsome little looker to boot..
But a 2 cyl diesel...V dub is gonna have to not go cheap on motor mounts, that is for sure..I didn't see engine config. A 45¼ L I guess would allow them to get the most smoothness providing they gear it appropriately. With 7 cogs tho, should make that goal a little more easily attainable. A parallel may use up the least room, but they couldn't gear counter-balance that thing enough to keep the bees under wraps. Plus counter-balancers use reserves, and don't want to tax the little bugger more than necessary. We'll let the A/C compressor keep it humble there, haha.
While the diesel Mazda6 (when/if it comes out with a diesel and MT) may make me feel some slight regret for buying my '13 Accord I am sure happy right now. 6.6 seconds to 60 mph is quite fun (stick shift) and the mpg is getting better.
I would like to point out that there are some gas cars that have plenty of room and are very frugal with fuel. CR got 44 mpg with the Altima at 65 mph - real world driving. They also got 40 mpg with the Accord - both with CVT. I wrote here that I got 39.4 mpg with my Accord on my 18 mile loop (3 stoplights, 3 stop signs, 700 ft elevation change ...) I ran the test again, but this time with a warm engine (change from a cold soak). The temp was 30 degrees (not ideal at all) just like the first time. My number improved from 39.4 to 44.9 mpg. I still have not put 800 miles on the vehicle so break in is hardly complete. I think I might have a shot at 50 mpg on a warm day once I put on some more miles.
My secret weapon is a 6 MT - notoriously underrated by the EPA.
So yes diesels get great mileage (better than gassers), but the gap is closing. Direct injection et al are making a difference.
BTW CR got the civic HF at 49 mpg hwy (Jetta diesel was only 45 mpg on the same test)
Of course not all "frugal" gassers do so well. The Fusion comes to mind (CR got the 1.6 for worse mpg than the Accord or Camry V-6 models)
I really do not like the wagon style in a car. It does come standard with the 6 speed M/T, with the 6 speed DSG as a $1,100 option. For that matter Honda makes a wagon? I followed one in the slow lane (5th of 5 lanes) @ 85 mph coming back home from an errand today. I just really did not much pay attention to it other than it was a light sage green metallic color and you mentioned wagon?
I wonder how well they would do using CA crap designer gas? The 2010 Accord I rented was auto. Best tank I got mostly highway was 28 MPG. That was real World mild October weather. The much better 2005 Passat Wagon TDI that I owned got 28 around town and closer to 40 MPG on the HWY. It was the old style auto transmission as well. And it was a heck of a lot quieter, better handling more fun to drive than the Accord.
I did convince my mother to buy a JSW though.
Honda makes an abomination called the crosstour. It weighs 600 lbs more than an Accord and has a severely sloped rear (no room in back). It gets terrible mileage and is slow. It also is much more expensive. I guess you could call the CRV an Accord wagon, but again slower, uses more gas, no stick shift, does not handle as well. Typical crossover shortcomings - for me anyway.
When is a diesel minivan coming out? Maybe I can hop on board the diesel wagon (pun intended) when my wife gets a new vehicle.
Except in the torque and towing department.
Although, some of the pure EVs have torque to spare too (Tesla at least), so I could see the gas hybrids upping that number.
Passat has been shown to be easily able to post 50+ mpg. The Aussie mileage pros, the Taylor's just recently have posted 84+ mph @ 5 below speed limits (presumably 65 mph) on a Passat TDI made in Chattanooga, TN. :shades:
The best the Quest has ever done is 29.9 on a single tank. Has always bugged me to have never hit 30 - may have to make a "Taylor" run sometime.
They use to turbo that 2.2 and put it in the...Le Baron? I forget now...that musta made them even harder on head gaskets..
That very van, single-handedly, is what LITERALLY turned Chrysler around back then.