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Comments
The comparison is done by "Advanta Star" a research company, clearly visible on the page where you set up the comparison (also in the fine print at the end of the article), and not by Toyota.
If you want information from Toyota, visit their official web site at http://www.toyota.com .
http://www.mariettatoyota.com/frameset4.asp?LINK=NewCars&MAIN=comparison
Second I would imagine that this service will be here for the 2003 model. Now when Toyota compares the V6 model to a model with a cast iron block, it will probably say the V6 engine is lighter and has a better heat distribution than that of a cast iron block.
As I've stated, I think the cladding looks pretty cool, but could be better if it was darker or matched each body color. It looks a lot better in person, and much more finished than the Avalanche or GC Laredo. And the notches look pretty cool in person too, giving it a really unique look. I think what is a bit conflicting about the rugged-looking cladding, is the cleanliness of the lines of the rest of the truck. Maybe if you put some nice, beefy BFG A-Ts or Mud-Terrains on, the cladding would look much cooler.
I want the cladding for off-roading and parking lot urban assaults, but I can understand why a lot of people would not want it or care for it's looks. So, I'm really surprised that Toyota didn't offer at least the Sport Edition in 2 forms; with or without the cladding. I wish they would have done that with the stupid silver package too, making it an optional appearance package, not standard fare. Idiots. I want the X-REAS, but on a truck in ALL-BLACK and with the better wheels!
Okay, I think I've driven that into the ground, but I decided to leave the GM camp because they have narrowed their customer base down to the soccer-mom crowd for their mid-size triplets, and they grouped things into packages that make it tough to get exactly what you want. So, I'm upset that the company I'm switching to seems to be embracing some of those characteristics. I don't think the new 'Runner is at all a soccer-mom SUV, unless she also enjoys a bit of off-roading in rough stuff from time to time, but I don't appreciate the package limitations.
However, I am happy to see you can get just about everything else that even the Limited has, save the suspension and leather seats. I bet we see some additions for 2004 that take care of some of these issues though.
Okay, as far as the spoiler, I think it looks MUCH better on than off, in person. Here's why. First of all, I'm a fan of spoilers, if they're done right. I think the spoiler helps the design of the 4Runner because it's very aerodynamic and has a really pronounced front end, but a very blunt back end. The 3 SR5s I saw without the spoiler (yes, I said without them) looked like something was missing, and caused the whole design to look a little off-balance. The new design is so full of nice curves, that the abrupt sharp angle of the flat liftgate kind of looks out of place. But the spoiler helps your eye move off of the end of the truck and create a more swooping feel to the over-all design.
That's just my take on it, and you may feel totally different, but I really like the spoiler. I also think it makes the awkward design of the Sequoia look better. I don't like the Sequoia much. It looks a little dumpy. The front end needs the treatment they gave the updated Tundra, and the back end needs a re-design.
I'm waiting for the V6, and probably a while after that for any re-calls, possible incentives, etc., and will have a REALLY hard time waiting to see what changes may happen for 2004, but this will definitely be my next SUV. The only thing that could possibly change my mind is if the re-designed Pathfinder or Rodeo look REALLY COOL for 2004. But neither one of those have the rocker height or ground clearance of the 4Runner, so they'd have to meet those needs too, which I don't think they will. Beside, the Rodeo will probably be another version of the GM triplets, like the god-awful Trooper replacement, the Ascender, or as I like to call it, the [non-permissible content removed]-ender or Envoy clone.
I don't know if any of this helps at all, but maybe you'll just have to see for yourself when they hit your local dealerships soon. Personally, I'm having a real hard time driving my truck, knowing this new 4Runner is what it is. Also, and I wish I could have taken pictures, seeing the 2002 Limited and Sport sitting next to their replacements REALLY sold me on the new design. I love the 3rd gen's styling, and thought I would have a hard time deciding which design looks better in a side by side comparison. After about an hour's worth of staring, walking around, measuring, sitting inside, and staring again, the winner was very clearly the 2003, especially the Limited. What an awesome truck!
Worldtraveler, sorry to freak you out about the color! You may like it just fine, I'm just not a very big fan of silver anyway. I do like pewter, but still, out here in Arizona, every other vehicle is either white, silver or pewter, so that could have something to do with it. It does look better in person than it did in those pictures though. Personally, I think the dark gray (whatever they're calling it) looks really cool with the cladding, so maybe that would work for you if you don't like the silver.
Cliffy, I'm with you on the functionality of the spoiler too. Dust is a big deal here in Arizona, so having a spoiler to help reduce build-up and rear window invasion would be really great on the trails. As I stated above, I also think it looks cool. However, I'm a "bunny-hugger," so the deer carcass on the rear would look horrid to me.
Intmed99, I totally agree with what you've been saying about the comparison to the Pathfinder! I don't understand what all the hoopla is about the current model anyway. It's very dull-looking with no personality or beefiness to it, and it's off-road prowess doesn't even come close to the 'Runner. The interior is boring and the front cabin feels cramped. My head is only inches from where the roof meets the windshield, and the back seat passengers enjoy the sunroof more than the front seat occupants because of it. It's a perfectly nice truck, but uninspiring. I wouldn't give up my truck for a Pathfinder, and I know how you feel about my truck! ;o)
And how come everyone everywhere seems to have a dealer nearby that has some of the 4th gen "sitting in the back" or whatever, and we have none around here in San Francisco?? :-(
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
So much to rationalize here, I know I will end up waiting a few more years to get what I exactly want . . . then I won't mind paying the premium Toyota gets on these because it will be the best damn sport utility truck and appearance money can buy! But for now, probably sticking with my personal Plan B, send a one-less-sale message to Toyota design/marketing folks to work these issues out so I don't have to rationalize, and buy some more gaming stocks in the meantime.
But the 35.5K!?! could change everything, that's only $4,100 more than what I was on the verge of paying . . . that black Limited would be an easy sell! Like you, I'd rip off the silver running boards for rock rails and then I'd hacksaw off the silver racks and slap on my Thules, and grab a can of black spray paint and put an end to those skunk stripes that belie the BEAST inside! I'd do it for that price (but not for 40K) in a heartbeat! [We still couldn't get the X-REAS though . . . probably not until 2004 I'm guessing :<]
I have read that the '03 4runner has 9 crossmembers (vs. 8 for the 3rd gen). But that is a given because the '03 4runner is a lot longer. (BTW, 8 crossmembers for 3rd gen are pretty impressive for such a tiny SUV. According to Toyota manual, side rails and crossmembers are made of high-strength steel!)
In addition, i have read that the frame on '03 4runner is slightly thicker. Again, that is due to a bigger body and higher curb weight.
But, no mentioning of the '03 4runner frame being stronger than 3rd gen. Has Toyota reach the maximum stiffness for a body-on-frame design?? I have heard that the Land Cruiser has the stiffest body-on-frame around, bar none. Of course, the 3rd gen 4runner is well-known for it's structural integrity.
Just a thought.
Still the Limited pricing is expensive for me but I may attempt a run at it.
My only negative comment about this truck was the color of cladding/bumpers on sport and SR5, aside of some concerns with the overall look. But I think the Limited model could grow on me.
So this week I'll be trying my best to negotiate something with my dealer or else I'll have to go to the dark side.....
There is so much I can afford over the Pathfinder payment, I'll see if my dealer can live with that.
Next friday is the drop dead date.
Wish me luck !!!
I spoke to my girl friend last night (well... one of them) and she works at a dealership in Richmond VA. Her district rep was by last week with a Sport model. She and the rest of the dealership were VERY impressed. Her GM is over 6'5" and was able to comfortably sit in it, even with a moonroof. That is a big deal and confirms my thoughts that only looking at head room figures on paper does not tell the whole story. Seating position and shape have a huge role in this and the new generation seems to work well for tall people.
She asked the DM about pricing. Specifically, she asked him to confirm what was told to dealer owners at the dealer meeting last month. They had been told that a 4WD, V8 SR5 would come in under $30K. The DM laughed. That will probably be the base price, but prices with options will run them into the $33K range, while the Sport will be in the $34K and Limited in the $38K ranges.
One final comment. The dealer GM drove the new sport. He said it looked like a Chevy and drove like a BMW.
Cheers
Pat
Not sure if I'm reading correct but On page 14 of the manual:
X-REAS:diagnol-linked Relative Absorber System 1) sport enhancement suspension. 2)std on sport model,available on limited(not sr5)3)developed by Yamaha;a.previosly used in domestic Toyota models b. worlds 1st use in a mid-SUV
Oh.. wait a second. Is that a multiple choise quiz? If so, the corect answer is "b".
V6
Base SR5 at 39,000
Sports at 43,400
Limited at 48,500
Add approx 1500$ to these prices for the V8.
Those prices are subject to change but not that much.
Here right now a fully loaded 02 SR5 is about 39,500. So the sports is on the expensive side (mainly if you consider the cladding issue). The 02 Limited is around 48,000 (but has been seen at 50,00 most of the year).
When I said to add 1500 for each model it was an approximation from my part. The Limited V8 was 50500 (approx) so around 2000 more than the V6. I think that the Limited V8 adds more than just the V8. The for the other two (SR5 and Sport) it is about 1500 more (approx).
Sorry....
Steve
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Base price will be 27205
http://www.toyota.co.jp/Showroom/All_toyota_lineup/hiluxsurf/
The calm before the storm, or is everyone gone to line up in front of their dealer to be the first one to do a test drive this Thursday?????
I guess that almost all has been said so now lets wait for the facts.... and for most of us for that first real look at the new truck....
No, I'm not gone yet to the dark side...... Tough to do without actually seing the new 4Runner for real. My Nissan dealer is hagging me. He knows what I'm waiting for... I now hope that they will release it soon here in Canada to end this drama and non-sense !!!
As I mentionned in another forum I saw today two other "upscale" cars that were decorated with plastic like the new 4Runner will be: A Volvo XC90 (the cladding/fender/bumper are real black plastic) and an Audi that had substantial amount of plastic.
I guess it is trendy these days to have plastic all over your car, like wood panel in th 70's, long tailfin in the 50's, etc....
So, any last minute comments ???
We'll see on Thursday.
Mackabee
Plastic IS good to protect the paint from dirt/rocks/etc - let's wait to see what it actually looks like in person.
Hush! The moment draws ever nearer...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I'm thinking like 26-29K for a fully loaded 2002 SR5 Sport??? Any thoughts?
The interior is exactly the same in the 4Runner as the Hilux. It has those same storage bins in the back. They are very cool!
You are right, we don't seem to get all the goodies.
http://www.toyota.com/html/shop/look_ahead/runner.html
Am I getting soft here?
Also, the second row doesn't fold flat. The seats fold up against the front row and are actually in the way which eats up cargo space. I can only assume the same will be true in the 4runner.
Cabin space is awesome for the 4 main passengers and the car looks great in person. I expect the same to be true of the 4runner. My only gripe was the limited cargo space for such a large truck. Otherwise, much to be excited about.
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
all standard equipment plus:
6 disc in dash changer
power tilt/slide moonroof
floor mats
Toyoguard Protection Package Plus
retail MSRP 39565.74
An average SR5 will have a MSRP of around 31500
tracks and made me want to get up and buy one of the current models (with Sports package). Now I am so disappointed because
I do not like the cheap-looking plastic fender flares that are on the 2003 sports models. The design may be practical for protecting
the paint job during off-roading, but they should make the Fender flares on the Limited Edition available on the sports models in
the color of the vehicle. Who wants a nice shiny black sports model with the cheap looking gray 'clabber' fender flares? I am sure
many people would like a completely black sports model without that gray two tone look. That's why you see so many completely
black 2001-2002 sports models driving around Los Angeles. To me, the plastic cuts the body in half and makes the 2003 4Runner
look like a sorry station wagon.
I think a V6 black sport with SHINY black color keyed fenders and hood scoop and navigational system would be tough...but
what if we don't want the Limited/leather seats?
We are waiting to see those in person before making a final judgement. Like I mentioned in a previous post many "luxury" cars are going the plastic route. We might have to get used to that.
ppppsssssssssssssssssssssss . . . POP . . . that's the sound of the $35.5K Limited bubble being popped. $40+K (as I suspected for a while) was always a stretch anyway, and not worth it IMO if it's not 100% everything I waited for.
I will wait seven years and go back to my second-choice, Plan B: '03 Pathfinder LE for 31K even. {boo, hiss}
Yes, for 3 years my wife and I railed on it, but at least I can rationalize that the 9K I'll save up front will double by 2010 (assuming a modest 10% return).
Oh well . . . still, I can't wait to test drive one for the heck of it and check out the new interior/engines.
P.S. Anyone looking for deals on an '02, FYI, every dealer is coming out of the woodwork to clear these out [e.g., drove out to Tysons and they had about 6 '02 Runners lined up bumper to bumper along Route 7]. . . but prices are no lower than I provided in my earlier posts. Even receiving emails again to inquiries sent weeks ago before I gave up on the idea that an '02 could be acquired at a fair price. '02 plus supercharger (to make it like an '03) = same old $32K offer; not worth it.
models, colors, wallpaper shots, features, options, accessories. But the site feels like a Godzilla movie.
Ok, I am over my third row seat tantrum. Let the kid's friends ride in the way back and tough it out or swap car's with the wife when needed.
Is the galactic gray more of a dark blue?
They're built into the windshield, like the GMC Envoy and Olds Bravada.
They do lay flat with the head rests pushed down, but the bottom cushions protrude a little into the cargo space a bit, which is true of most SUVs these days. The main reason for that is because of the better height of the rear seats for comfort, so it's a good compromise in my book.