What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

ruking1 · March 2013

I quoted accurately.

Of course I know that, I was one that said that hpfp's fuel pumps fail more on gassers than diesels. Even as he says diesel fuel can be more wonky. The issue was balance. I quoted accurately. Shifty either said what I cited/lifted or he didn't. I do not think I lifted it from someone else and attributed to him.

I think you must missed the full frontal attack drivel posts by another frequent poster. I believed the host's removed it. Why he feels he needs to attack close to everything and twists everything are known only to him. So if you are not of that ilk, I will just leave it at that.

cdnpinhead · March 2013

Send that defense mode off for a nap.

Nice concept, but I don't see it ever happening.

crkyolfrt · March 2013

I didn't miss it. But I am seeing a theme. Your comment about 'twisting' is pretty ironic if you ask me..I know..you didn't and won't..anyway..

I like your posts ruking..just for the record, ok? although your excessive short forming drives me crazy sometimes to the point that I just get tired of looking up what they mean...when I spend more time looking up the shortforms than absorbing the content of your post.

That said tho, I don't like mis-quoting and putting words in other's mouths and I guess I am a bit sensitive to it. I know that you seem to not see where you mis-quoted and that you actually believe that you didn't..whatever..peace still just the same..

ruking1 · March 2013

..."Nice concept, but I don't see it ever happening."...

Moving right along.......

ruking1 · March 2013

Not including shipping, ( which then makes a lot more sense to buy locally as shipping has probably been applied) (Peak) A Blue Def 2.5 gal container can cost anywhere from 26.58 to 11.75, on Amazon! Even usage is all over the place.

Mr_Shiftright · March 2013

I just read an obscure fact--that Blue Def is consumed at 2% rate of diesel fuel but 4-6% in Europe. I wonder why that is? I thought we were stricter.

gagrice · March 2013

It looks to me like Wiki compared apples to oranges. This is a good link explaining cost and percentages used in Europe. Trucks use more than cars or SUVs. AdBlue may be part of the reason the newer diesels get better mileage. Notice the cost is about $2.26 per gallon and going down. That is about half the best price charged here. We must be keeping the price of Urea up raising corn for ethanol.

By using SCR technology with AdBlue, DAF have been able to improve the fuel economy which more than compensates for the cost of AdBlue. A fuel saving of 1.5%  2.0% compensates for the cost of AdBlue and DAFs SCR engines can give up to 4% fuel savings over their Euro 3 predecessors

http://www.daf.eu/SiteCollectionDocuments/UK/adblue_the_facts.pdf

ruking1 · March 2013

If I do the rough calculations (in the context of your post) the app amount (4.5 gal AdBlue/DEF) consumed (in a V6 TDI 3.0 in 13,500 miles/30 mpg = 450 gals),

was @ app 1%

(= 4.5 gal DEF/450 gals D2 fuel) I have seen estimates of 5 gals ( DEF consumption) in 15,000 miles.

To me what might have been more consumptive (outlier) was break-in was conducted slightly to more aggressively (rpm). While I tried to keep it to 4,000 rpm (max hp specifications, no real advantage torque wise, past 3,000 rpm ) and under, (78% and under of redline) I frequently took it closer to when the computer controlled it :surprise: :shades: I also did aggressive DE accelerations. Speeds were also VARIED.

Mr_Shiftright · March 2013

Yes they should instruct every American who buys a diesel car on how to DRIVE IT!!

ruking1 · March 2013

..."Yes they should instruct every American who buys a diesel car on how to DRIVE IT!!"...

I am beginning to think that is the REAL issue for the brouhaha with the 2004 Prius and almost any other vehicle folks might be happy to dissatisfied with. This is NOT to say there are NOT problems. There most certainly ARE. The specifications and parameters go unheeded, or unknown. So when the vehicle is not operated within them because of some mistaken assumption or erroneous facts, they are obviously and understandably disappointed.

Mr_Shiftright · March 2013

Oh I wasn't kidding. Some types of vehicle need a little classroom time prior to operation. Hybrids are one, diesels another. If you drive either one like a high-strung gasoline car, you're going to be disappointed in some way.

ruking1 · March 2013

That is true, I have several of them (higher strung gassers) myself. I am not sure why you thought I thought you were kidding? I drive the Honda like a/the higher strung gasoline car (it is) and get 38-42 mpg. Why, how,?, one might say? Not kidding, that is how it is designed and built to be RUN !!! If I drive a hybrid and diesel that way/parameter you can bet an uneducated dollar, I would be disappointed in any number of ways.

In my case, part of the rational in NOT getting the 2004 Prius was I was not willing to do what it would have taken to get close to the EPA 's 60 mpg C/50 mpg H. Their are other reasons, but that is the one germane to the point.

So for another example, even though it might seem unrelated to diesels, I had to take some time to integrate the 8 speed A/T with the VW 3.0 TDI. At first glance, it is just the addition of 2 gears and a sequential shift gate. On the face of it, that is absolutely true.

gagrice · March 2013

Will MB break into the lucrative Mini Van market in the USA. I could like one of these.

The new Grand Edition Viano AVANTGARDE is available in "compact" and "long" body variants. Buyers can also choose between two powerful yet at the same time economical, low-emission engines: these include the four-cylinder 2.2 CDI with an output of 120 kW (163 hp) and the V6 3.0 CDI producing 165 kW (225 hp), an engine which is unique in this class.

ruking1 · March 2013

with a twist.

After fueling @ 6,237 ft after a trip UPGRADE (210 miles x 2=420 miles + 30 miles in and around 6,237 ft) from sea level to 7,300 ft and down into 6,237 ft for 29.5 mpg, the trip DOWNGRADE was started .

(The TWIST)

The computer posted app 41.5 mpg out of the mountains to app 2,000 ft.

At that altitude, we were able to pick back up to more normal freeway speeds. Fueling at sea level posted 34.5 mpg for the down grade leg. The average for the trip was 32 mpg.

qbrozen · March 2013

pretty ugly, but I'd still replace the T&C with it.

EDIT: just did a search and they are saying this thing STARTS at 50k euros! Yikes!!

gagrice · March 2013

It is a Mercedes, not some cheapo Honda or Toyota. I don't think they will make it to the US market. Even VW puts their name on a Chrysler Mini Van. Or they did. I think they have dumped the Routan. They have some nice diesel vans they sell in Europe. According to Edmunds you can buy the 2012 VW Routan for about $8000 under invoice. Probably the best buy in mini vans in the USA.

qbrozen · March 2013

actually, according to the germany MB website, it starts at 40k. I think that makes more sense when stacked up against the rest of their lineup there, and its about 10k more than a vw multivan starting price.

fintail · March 2013

Their prices included 19% tax, IIRC.

It's also not very "mini", it's looks bigger in person anyway. Would be cool to see it here though.

elias · March 2013

the 2400 watt generator is probably too small for the loads you are attempting to power. sounds like you would need the slightly-larger 3000 watt (5000 watt peak) model for the skilsaw load.
a possible mechanism for the overload is that the voltage drop quite low when the skillsaw load is attached, thus increasing the required current well beyond the overload-mode-threshold-current-detector...

a generator with 5kw peak-power-rating may be especially important for you if you need to a more inductive load such as a skilsaw.

a possible reason the generator worked at first and not now is that it had better compression and better hp when new. the current-detector might have failed on the generator too, but it is expected for a gas engine to lose hp/compression over enough time/use. i understand these generator engines are not exactly lifetime workhorses.

you could consider to put a current/AC-voltage meter-plug-thing inline to see the actual voltage troughs & current-peaks.

in diesel car news, the Volkwagen Golf GTD for 2014 in USA looks unavoidably attractive to me. manual transmission, 280 hp (ft-lbs too!?), diesel, good times!!!!

ruking1 · March 2013

in the (US market) diesel scheme of things?????

Audi LUX>WSJ<a href="

fintail · March 2013

Your Wally World dollars at work. Well-connected conspicuous consumers in our "most favored trading partner" love them, and they've wooed over some of the traditional BMW demographic here, too. Few are diesels.

gagrice · March 2013

Looks like VW/Audi are right on course to take the top spot by 2018. I think they are also the largest in Brazil another very large emerging market.

Ruking, meant to ask. Do you prefer one brand of ULSD over the others?

gagrice · March 2013

I think MB is heading in the right direction leading the way with more diesel options in the US market. I don't care for the Audi look much. I would consider an A4 Allroad Quattro TDI if they get rid of that goofy grill. This is still my favorite Audi.

fintail · March 2013

I hope you know a good indy shop :shades:

I know someone with an 04 or so Allroad, and it has been pretty decent - but I have also read many horror stories. Probably one of those models where maybe 1:50 cars weren't troublesome.

Of course, in Europe, you can get that A6-based diesel Allroad.

gagrice · March 2013

I hope you know a good indy shop

It took a lot of research to find a good Lexus mechanic. My last two vehicles I got the 7 year warranty. Though not sure it is worth it. I just like the looks of that Allroad. I would not even look at one to buy if it was not diesel. I am tired of supporting the oil companies that control the EPA and CARB. Now that you have seen for yourself the diesel advantages you can understand. Impossible to get through to most people that have never owned a modern diesel vehicle.

fintail · March 2013

I don't drive as huge a mileage as some, but I am still between 1/2 and 1/4 tank in the Bluetec. I got the car 24 days ago, and haven't been to a gas station yet. Not many similar sized gassers could do similar.

ruking1 · March 2013

..."Your Wally World dollars at work. Well-connected conspicuous consumers in our "most favored trading partner" love them, and they've wooed over some of the traditional BMW demographic here, too. Few are diesels."...

Yes, I thought that was why the latest cabal was RE elected?

What's good for Wally World is guud for MERICA? Few diesels are the current US market situation, at 5% and less.

stever · March 2013

"The next-generation Audi A4 sedan in the U.S. will feature an optional 2.0-liter four-cylinder TDI engine, said Scott Keogh, Audi of America president, on Tuesday in a conference call with reporters.

The next-generation Audi A4 will arrive sometime in 2014. Pricing and launch details on the diesel variant of the Audi A4 were not disclosed."

Next-Generation Audi A4 in U.S. To Offer Diesel Option

This was this morning's diesel wonder. Was idling for 5+ minutes near an autoparts store as I was walking to the phone company to pay my internet bill.

fintail · March 2013

I don't think the current empty suits are any more or less pro-diesel or pro-WM than the just as empty suits who weren't able to sell their story. Consumer fear knows no political boundaries, and for many, it is still fear from the malaise era. More than once, someone has asked me "do you have trouble finding stations that sell diesel?".

gagrice · March 2013

More than once, someone has asked me "do you have trouble finding stations that sell diesel?".

Do you tell them "no problem, I only fill it once a year."

fintail · March 2013

Pretty much, yes. When I tell them I am still between 1/2 and 1/4, and I bought the car three and a half weeks ago, it shocks people. 25mpg commute home tonight, not shabby. Many 90s era 4cyl cars can do no better.

Mr_Shiftright · March 2013

I had a 300D (gee I miss that car) and it had the optional Mercedes long range fuel tank, and I drove from Utah to the city of San Francisco without re-fueling AND had some fuel left! What I didn't do is drive FAST however.

fintail · March 2013

I can go reasonably fast in my car - no super sedan of course, but it will still beat many if not most cars.

I think on a road trip, a 700+ mile range should be no problem.

ruking1 · March 2013

Well then it's all good and ... faster ( if that is what one choses. ). I am not sure slower is necessarily too much better ! A past post gives the figures. 32 mpg with 26.4 gals will post 832 miles with 13 miles to look for a refill.

On the other side of it, The Taylors did 5 mph under the speed limit and made a 43 mpg EPA car post 84.1 mpg !!! But then all would agree that is probably an outlier average. Besides you have more than once said mpg is not a motivator for you.

Mr_Shiftright · March 2013

My Benz diesel never got close to 32 mpg unfortunately.

Anyone who could market a full size sedan that could be driven normally and that got 84 mpg, would rule the world and grow rich beyond measure. I don't believe that kind of anecdotal evidence anyway. I'd need to see a measured course with measured fuel and repeated tests.

But gee, even 60 mpg in a mid-size 4-door car (like a Taurus) would be fantastic. That'd boost the diesel market for certain.

ruking1 · March 2013

Right !

But I think it is important in both comparison (like model) and scale for the times.

So for example, using 20 mpg (gasser) vs 30 mpg (diesel) a min of 50% BETTER:
I know you would agree that even on this board, BETTER mph is ALMOST a yawn.

Truth be told, that except for a MUCH smaller minority it is almost total sleeps ville.

Now I like the difference, but even I understand it is an almost total outlier minority position.

stever · March 2013

"VW actually prefers you call it the Jetta Turbo Hybrid. The automaker is keen to position this car as something most hybrids aren't: fun and powerful.

Yet the Jetta somehow still felt underpowered. No one expects this car to crush Mustangs at stoplights. But every on ramp, stop sign, or passing situation served as reminder that fuel economy came at the expense of useful power.

Still, the Jetta Hybrid doesn't feel like a $32,000 car  especially when you consider a base Jetta costs just $17,000, and the diesel Jetta costs $4,000 less than the hybrid.

Sure, not everyone wants a diesel. But they should. The Jetta Hybrid only reinforces this point."

2013 Volkswagen Jetta: Hybrid vs. diesel (Chicago Tribune)

ruking1 · March 2013

The good/bad news are people vote with their "checkbooks".

Diesels are ONLY 5% of the passenger diesel population (258.5 M @ 12.93M). Of that population, fully 50% (6.463 M) are the "light" but really heavier passenger vehicle segment. But, the 3 % came back from the dying to dead minority outlier population by 67 % to 5% of the passenger vehicle fleet !!!!

The VW turbo hybrid would be interesting comparison against the Prius. I think VW would be thrilled to death to sell its miniscuse inventory of "hybrids, "aka Prius competitor" as a "go with the program" US market policy. Cars.com shows 1,429 units of 2013 Jetta turbo hybrids and 3 Touareg supercharger hybrids. Of course, the other half of that would be "turbo", in which they are one of the dominate turbo oems (Garrett Turbo, a division of Honeywell, a VERY American vendor)

On another diesel related mpg topic, SOS DD ( in a good way).

The VW T, 3.0 TDI posted 28 mpg (1 to 2 mpg DROP, by computer) loaded and STUFFED to the literal gills with app 1,000/1,500 #'s of bulky "stuff". Defacto blocking and bracing made it feel more like a loaded suv/tow vehicle, but still it did Highway 50 (twisty two lane with twisty 2 lane each way passing areas, to Tahoe, folks can google it) like the proverbial mountain goat being chased by a predator. Evidently on a connecting Highway UP, PRE Saint Patty's Day was CHP 6 vehicle enforcement day (one way) in full early morning swing. I have never seen sooooo many cars (non accident) in one area. Even had to slow to 75 mph :surprise: :shades:

The same leg only downgrade and NO STUFF let the vehicle post 31.4 mpg (DROP obviously from a prior post)

Tragic but real: Got stuck in the GAWKING lanes on multiple cars and accidents and twin fatality (RIP) scenario/s for almost an hour closer to San Jose, CA on the return trip. It literally had the full complement of CHP's, fire trucks, ambulances, tow trucks, news Helo's etc.

gagrice · March 2013

The Americans filled it up with diesel, rather than petrol, reports Channel 2  stressing that it was the Americans, not the Israelis.

Unsurprisingly, the car wouldnt start.

http://jalopnik.com/president-obamas-limo-breaks-down-in-israel-after-bein-45677- 3406

ruking1 · March 2013

Perhaps it was journalistic bas ackwardness? It is actually a diesel that the Americans filled with GAS ????????????? Or maybe just another BLAME opportunity for BO ?

from the Huff Post

..."As reported by CNN, the official presidential limousine -- nicknamed The Beast because of its extensive features and defense systems -- broke down Wednesday after its driver reportedly fueled the vehicle with gasoline rather than diesel fuel."...

I am then indeed confused. I had read the Cadillac POTUS limo (fleet) was indeed a gaggle of turbo diesels. (I understand there are more than one.) I SWAG it really needs massive torque and no fuel draw going the speeds and idling as it does. I am not sure what it means when the lefties actually get it RIGHT.

But then the food [non-permissible content removed]'s are letting Twinkies live ! :shades: Ho Ho's and DING DONGS to resurrect !!!!

stever · March 2013

Thanks for the morning laugh.

Reminds me of the time one of the limos tried to exit a parking lot and got high centered on the curb apron and stuck.

(And Yahoo says it was a diesel they put gas in - but I thought diesels would burn most anything from coal tar to Jack Daniels, so what's problem? :P )

ruking1 · March 2013

No that option is specifically AGAINST the law !! The EPA will not even allow an engine specified for up to 100% bio diesel. Bio diesel is as low as ZERO % ppm sulfur !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (for for conversation purposes 1 ppm sulfur) Why have no to lower ppm emissions when you can have RUG emissions that are 30 to 60 to 90 TIMES greater !!! Just as long as one can say how "clean" things are even when they are far dirtier !!!! :lemon: :shades:

gagrice · March 2013

but I thought diesels would burn most anything from coal tar to Jack Daniels, so what's problem?

Even diesels have limitations on the crap they will burn.

houdini1 · March 2013

Even diesels have limitations on the crap they will burn.

Or the crap they have to haul around.

xwesx · March 2013

Hahaha! Touche!!!!!

fintail · March 2013

I wonder if the emissions from that class of useless moneywasters could be counted as a biofuel. Could probably fuel a million vehicles for a million years.

gagrice · March 2013

http://video.staged.com/localshops/vw_passat_785_mpg_in_the_uk

ruking1 · March 2013

... and that's the way it is ! Good night.

:lemon: 95% RUG/PUG passenger vehicles is solid evidence of this brain washing.

Diesels are way dumbed down also, ala 43 mpg vs 71 to 78 mpg?

dudleyr · March 2013

Almost all cars are dumbed down by the EPA - especially stick shifts.

Mr_Shiftright · March 2013

yeah but first off that's an imperial gallon, and second of all, it's a 1.6L engine that quite frankly some of my fellow Americans would not be happy driving here in the states.

Me, I'm all for it----just sayin'.................

What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

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