2009 Outback - AWD systems

kentuckyranger · October 2008

It boggles my Mind that someone would let Tires sway their decision to buy a Vehicle.
I admit that I said I had bought a set of Potenzas a long time ago and didn't like them but man, that was a long Time ago and they weren't even the same Model, not to mention they went on a Ford Escort...

Like I stated in my Blog and on here, my new Outback with the Potenza's really performs very well.
I was in a slick, wet Parking Lot and never spun a Wheel.
It rained here Yesterday hard, and I did everything I could to get the Tires to spin out but they never did.
I think allot has to do with the AWD system but I have to also give the Potenza credit because they really feel solid on wet Roads, even in hard rain and standing Water I never lost or felt like I lost traction once.

I like the Jeep Grand Cherokee, back when it was Jeep.
Even though you saved allot of Money on that purchase, being a Chrysler product, you're going to have allot of mechanical problems that will end up eating all you saved, I hope I'm wrong.
I'd love a Grand Cherokee or Liberty, I just can't swallow the Chrysler Bottom Line.

Another BIG problem with Jeep, re-sale and depreciation.
I made that mistake back in 06 when I purchased the Kia Spectra5.
It was a great deal, awesome in fact, until I saw its value drop faster than a Sky Diver in a Rubber Suit.

I also made a big mistake back in 99 when I purchased a Dodge Caravan.
With only 60k Miles on it, the Transmission blew up and the Dealer refused to do anything about it.
I've also witnessed 3 Friends at work 1 owns a Wrangler and the other 2 own Grand Cherokee's, have chronic problems with CV Joints and Steering Linkage.

I don't mean to spook you, just be aware.
With the Auto industry and our economy in the shape it's in and the on going news of Chrysler's woes, any Chrysler purchase right now is a big risk as to Factory support and build quality.

(Grimacing, waiting for the Flames) :surprise:

jim2345 · October 2008

Hi Ranger,

This is supposed to be a Subaru forum so Ill post just this one reply about my new Jeep.

Thanks for your concern but believe me, I know what Im getting into because Ive been driving Jeeps for 20 years. This is my third Grand Cherokee and it's the best equipped and least expensive (by far!) of the lot. The build quality probably isnt up to Subaru standards, but Ive had only a couple of minor problems with my last two (brake rotors and oxygen sensors) and those were covered under warranty. Speaking of which, the new Jeeps have a LIFETIME warranty on power train components.

And some of their bad reputation is undeserved. I think Jeeps have always gotten a bad rap in consumer reports categories like frequency of repair because so many people take them off road. If it werent for this, the ratings would likely be better.

And youre right about depreciation - its a real concern, but only for the first 5 years or so. In my part of the world there seems to be a floor price of $5000 to $6000 for any Jeep of almost any age. I think the real off-road enthusiasts here create this market because theyre looking for older ones in decent mechanical shape they can use to crash through the boonies - something Jeeps are really good at. Although new ones are just as capable, not too many people want to abuse their new $35000 - $40000 purchase in this way.

Im sorry if youre disappointed, but I just couldnt bring myself to spend $5000 more for an Outback only to have to put a new set of tires on it besides! Like I said, Ive been driving Jeeps for 20 years and Im comfortable with their quirks and general lack of drivability. I also know a good deal when I see it.

- Jim

clarkkent · October 2008

I have been driving Jeeps and Subarus for over 20 years.

Both are great cars. In todays world it easier to get a Good use Jeep and they sell fast and for a fair price.

Today, everyone wants to screw anyone who want to buy a used Subaru.

I have seem some beat up 1993 going for up to 6K.

So for those who buy a new Jeep, If it ever does wear out, you will have no problem selling it for a fair price.

I have always gotten over 200K on my Subarus and over 200K on my Jeeps. Neither have ever given me any trouble. And I'm talking Grand Cherokees, Cherokees, and Wrangler,. Outbacks and Legacys. All are great cars..

Oh, and my Jeep Grand Cherokee rides better than anything Subaru have ever made.

xwesx · October 2008

Okay, so I am a fan of Jeeps (in general) as well, so please do not take this post to be a "bash" on any make or model.

The Cherokee definitely has a "softer" ride than any Subaru, but I am not convinced that is a good thing. To me, it feels squishy (very GM-like) and serves to isolate the driver from the road. That is not something I would want in such a vehicle, but the vast majority of them will never see off-road situations, at least not in their initial (or even secondary) ownerships. I think the recent iterations of the Wrangler, as well as the Nissan Frontier (as an aside!), offer a comparable ride to Subaru vehicles, and I very much like it.

As for the warranty, Jim, be wary. I expect that parts will always be plentiful for the Jeep brand, regardless of who owns it, but right now Chrysler is owned by an investment company, and anyone who thinks they purchased it with the plan of long-term ownership is deluding themselves. I expect that company will be sold off in pieces to the highest bidders within two years and I know not how that will affect that "lifetime" warranty. The owners had good cause to offer that deal: First, encourage first-time and repeat buyers to jump on the new model year, which affects their short-term bottom line, in order to boost the company stock, then sell off the company while it is a hot consumer attraction to make off with loads of cash before warranty liabilities mount. In the first 2-3 years of ownership, most vehicles are not going to see an increased incidence of warranty claims, but for those who actually do keep the car longer than a normal warranty period? Well, for some models (the Caravan/T&C come to mind), that could be a huge expense for the company.

I wish you the best with your new Jeep. I'm sure you will like it. When the time is right, consider another Subaru. Aside from the tires, I very much doubt you will be disappointed.

xwesx · October 2008

Ranger, several posts back, I think you mentioned that the '09 Limited had a rear LSD, while the "lower" models did not.... is that accurate?

If so, what a loss. The '07 and '08s, at least, did have the LSD on all trims, and it is a very effective tool for increasing driver control of the car's rear end. I appreciated that feature more than any other in comparison to my '96 Ouback, which did not have the rear LSD.

I very much hope that Subaru does not abandon the LSD in favor of VDC. I do not see them as incompatible features, and I am not sure why the company would (other than a little cost saving).

kentuckyranger · October 2008

Oh no Wes, I didn't mean LSD was becoming an option.
I meant that VDC was an option on the 08's and standard on the 09's.

I never meant to bash Jeeps in earlier posts, I love Jeeps, always have.
I was just stating that many of the People I know as well as me with past ownership of a Chrysler product, I was just showing some concern for People buying them because I know how under handed Chrysler is and how volatile the Company is right now.

Anyone can tell when a Company is desperate because they throw everything at you to get you to buy, knowing in the long run they'll never have to Pony up.

Just take Chrysler's Minivan line.
I had a 2000 Grand Caravan and loved the design. At 57,000 Miles the Transmission blew up and after many heated debates on the Phone and in person they only offered to pay $500.00 of a $3,800.00 fix.
This problem is inherent on the V-6 Engine with the Auto Transmission and one they have never bothered to fix.
It's such a stupid thing but Chrysler refuses to acknowledge the problem.
Instead of using a Spline in the Driveshaft to connect the Engine to the Transmission, they use a Hole in the Driveshaft and a Pushpin to connect the 2 together.
When the Pushpin becomes loose over Time it's ejected and causes all kinds of problems.

Do you honestly think Chrysler is going to be fixing these Transmissions in the future? I doubt it...

I didn't mean to turn this into a Chrysler post but I'm just trying to let everyone know that I'm in no way bashing Jeeps, I just really feel bad for the fact Chrysler took them over and is ruining their reputation as a rugged off Road vehicle and duping Millions into thinking if they buy one, they'll never have to worry about the mechanics.

xwesx · October 2008

I didn't mean LSD was becoming an option.

Ah, good to hear. I have not really looked at the mechanics of the '09s, but I know that the Forester does not have the LSD and does have VDC, so it certainly is a plausible route for the company to go.

kentuckyranger · October 2008

That's one of the reasons I didn't chose the Forester.
That and the fact it doesn't get quite the Gas Millage the Outback does.

Also, since my last posting, I found out that LSD doesn't come standard on lower end 09 Outback models and that is a shame.

ateixeira · October 2008

We have the 175hp PZEV 2009 Forester, and even with an automatic we've seen 30-33mpg. It's hard to imagine an Outback would do much better.

We're averaging over 27mpg on the current tank. Even around town we get 24 or so.

That's not bad, IMHO. Forester is lighter than the Outback.

xwesx · October 2008

Yeah, I would expect at least even-odds fuel economy on the Forester versus the Outback, at least in real-world driving. I never did better than about 27-28 in my Outbacks unless I really nursed them.

Manual or auto, I found them (Outbacks) peppy and responsive, though, with the auto, familiarity with the gas pedal makes a big difference on how it responds. "Stomping it" at intersections, for example, does not illicit an optimum response from the car.

Ranger - I am disappointed to hear that the LSD is not standard throughout the lineup any longer, it will definitely be something I check before I purchase my next Subaru.

kentuckyranger · October 2008

Well I'll be, the Outback is 3357lbs while the larger Forester is only 3250lbs.
I really didn't know real work Millage, I just assumed the larger Forester would get less, so much for assuming... :O)

I still would have chsen the Outback anyway because it has LSD and just looks a little more sporty to me.

kurtamaxxxguy · December 2008

For those getting '09 Outbacks, and are driving in winter weather, consider ditching the stock Bridgstones for Nokian tires.

I've had many a comparison between '09 Forester and Outbacks, and found that the Outbacks had harsher ride on small, strong bumps than the Forester did, especially after the Forester got outfitted with WR or WRG2 Nokian tires.

Most likely the Outback's ride will improve, and the snow traction will vastly improve, with the Nokians.

2009 Outback - AWD systems

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