Got a Quick Question for a Car Dealer?

mike1004 · January 2013

I am buying a new car from dealerhship

The Dealership says they need my SSN for the OFAC compliance
OFAC is a Federal government program to find known terrorists involved in financial transaction, which may include purchasing a car

Using these instructions, you will see that the only info needed to run the OFAC search is the person's name and address.

The reason dealerships tell you the SSN is required is that, the credit bureaus will provide two things to the dealership: the customer's credit report (or score) and their OFAC Report.

But, if you're not financing the purchase through the dealership, there is no need for a credit report, and the dealerships are simply dishonest to tell people that an SSN is needed for OFAC Compliance.

If the dealership does this to you, tell them to give me a letter on the dealership's letterhead requesting your SSN for OFAC compliance. You can then send that letter to OFAC who will warn the dealership NOT to do this again.

If you have any questions, call OFAC: 800-540-6322

www.treasury.gov/ofac

Look for this heading: Office of Foreign Asset Control (you can use these instructions to search the OFAC database - yeah, these are the known terrorists and terrorist organizations the government is trying to find)

1) Select Resources
2) Search the SDN List
3) SDN Search  you are now on this page
4) Under type, select Individual and type in any name
5) You can also download the list of Specially Designated Nationals (SDN)

robr2 · January 2013

a print-out of a webpage advertising the sales price of my desired model at a dealer that, while not close by, is located where I'm planning to visit in 5 weeks.

Showing the print out from a not local dealer probably gave them a sense that you weren't a serious buyer. If you mentioned you were going there in 5 weeks, that likely convinced them you weren't a serious buyer TODAY as you were willing to wait 5 weeks.

stickguy · January 2013

still, if the price is something they would do for a quick sale to get another unit punched on the month, why not just say yes? either she buys the car right then (bonus sale before closing), or she flakes and leaves, and they are exactly in the same place.

robr2 · January 2013

still, if the price is something they would do for a quick sale to get another unit punched on the month, why not just say yes? either she buys the car right then (bonus sale before closing), or she flakes and leaves, and they are exactly in the same place.

I'm guessing it was because she walked in an hour before closing time and it wasn't worth it to them.

What she offered may have been too low.
They may have hit their numbers for the month and didn't need the sale.
The finance/paperwork folks may have gone home already.
The detailing staff was gone.

Who knows but they didn't want her business at the price she offered.

IMHO, the walking in an hour before closing time is akin to yelling out "who wants to sell a car today?"

kyfdx · January 2013

Yeah.... last day.. good plan...

Last minute? Not so much..

It was New Years Eve..... people have plans, and most of the "month-end specials" are good until January 2nd...

beethovengirl · January 2013

I forgot to ask...is it common for new cars to have over 300 miles on them? what is standard? Is having over 300 miles a legit reason to negotiate a lower price? I just walked since I wasn't sure how to proceed upon hearing the car had 330 miles on it (after being advertised as having 10 miles).

thanks

stickguy · January 2013

it can be. Might have been a dealer transfer, or could have been used for a lot of test drives. If it was transfer miles, no big deal. test drives, harder to say. But yes, normally you should expect more off for a car with miles, but that is in a gray area of being enough to matter.

robr2 · January 2013

As noted, it may have been a dealer trade or used for test drives.

Either way, it really shouldn't be an issue. Dealer trades are usually done by part time retirees and aren't driven hard. As for test drives, most dealers aren't going to allow customers to beat on the car.

As for standard miles on a new car - there isn't one. What defines a "new" car is if it has been titled.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2013

I don't think such few miles would be a point of negotiation, because the next buyer probably won't care.

kyfdx · January 2013

Agreed.....

At most, a dealer might knock off $0.30/mi... or, $100 in this case...

Some people have a hard time with mileage on their new car... others couldn't care less... Dealers don't care, for sure..

verdugo · January 2013

I just walked since I wasn't sure how to proceed upon hearing the car had 330 miles on it (after being advertised as having 10 miles).

For me, 330 miles is not a deal breaker. You wanted a car at fire sale price and got it, so that's fine.

I have more of a problem with the car being advertised as having 10 miles, but actually having 330. It would just give me a bad vibe about the dealer.

stickguy · January 2013

well, that does not sound horrible. remember, the ads are not real time. probably had 10 miles when they did the ad, and it got used after that (test drives or maybe a salesguy used it temporarilly). the don't change the online ads every time it was driven.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2013

In my book at least, 330 miles is a non-issue on a new car.

bb333 · January 2013

I need a (late model used) car in a short time period but couldn't get out of a work related seminar so I printed out some cars for the hubs to check out today. There was some miscommunication as we were talking though texts during breaks - long story, he went to the wrong dealership and negotiated a final price on a car that I wanted, but the car was priced $2k more than similar cars at the dealership that I had expected him to go to. He put no money down but convinced them to hold it for me to do a quick cash transaction in the evening on Monday. They spent hours discussing/dealing..

At first I was just going to buy it because of the honor system, but as I thought about it, I really can't justify spending $2k more (these are the same cars, model years, and actually the cheaper ones have lower mileage - although they are all low mileage). Hubs is not happy with me wanting to back out because he feels he has bonded with this smaller ma and pop dealership. My idea is to go but bring the documentation from the other dealership and see if they can work with me at all. They originally said that they could go no lower, though. Is it worth the confrontation and aggravation to try or should I just call it off? This dealership is a little out of my local area so I will have wasted another night of car shopping by driving out there. I need a car by the end of the week, but the sooner the better. I feel terrible, but I'm also not financially at a point where $2k isn't a significant amount to me. I guess what I'm asking, is if, final offers are still negotiable, and if this is not going to be taken personally, as it's just business, right?

stickguy · January 2013

if you did not sign the papers and roll the car over the curb, you are not legally obligated to take it.

certainly you can call the dealer, and explain the mistake (just blame your husband, everyone will accept that!). You can ask if they will do whatever it is you were hoping for, and if not, apologize, thank them for their time, and go where you have the paperwork from.

imidazol97 · January 2013

to bb333: I'm with stickguy, but I would go in person.

I would also be very sure the other store has the car you want and is at the price you think they are, out the door, with no addons.

Then be straightforward with the higher store.

My thinking is a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. If the car they have is suitable and you like it other than the total cash on the deal, you can play bad cop and work them down or walk while your husband had the role of good cop. But I would be very sincere that if they meet somewhere in between or near that other price, you've got the cash to finalize the deal.

imidazol97 · January 2013

I may be wrong, but I thought despite whatever papers are signed, the deal is not consummated until the car leaves the dealer lot over the curb. So I can back out despite a signed deal.

kyfdx · January 2013

That's true.. if they have some of your money, the problem might be stickier... but, if no deposit given, just call up and call it off..

If they had the car I really wanted, I might show up, say my husband is a buffoon, and no way I'm paying $XXXX + $2000 for that car... However, I might be convinced to buy it for $XXXX....

qbrozen · January 2013

Odds are extremely slim that one dealership can truly sell a comparable car for $2k less than another. So either the first dealer can go lower or the 2nd dealer doesn't have a comparable car for that lower price.

If you give me all the details on both cars, I could give you a better idea of a fair price.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2013

I'm also suspicious of this $2,000 difference. Numbers have been known to change during the time it takes to go from telephone to showroom

audia8q · January 2013

I see this everyday....some dealers have the belief that you tell the customer "anything they want to hear" on the phone to get them into the dealership....regretfully only a small number of people who fall for this actually get up and walk out...they usually just take the price bump with the dopey explination why the price just went up and buy the car. It's sad that dealers do this and it even worse than consumers fall for it all the time. If it didn't work, the questionable dealers wouldn't do it.

stickguy · January 2013

My wife and I would have been a perfect candidate for that in August when we bought our new Acura. I had contacted a deal about 2 hours away (since that was the closest one exactly like my wife wanted) via the internet. I got a price back from the internet guy, but it was over the phone. And got offered a special deal to get it that day (Friday 8/31). So, I said OK, and arranged to show up at late dinner time.

But, I did not actually have anything in writing, or related to a specific car. And was going to be 2 hours from home, on a Friday night. So they certainly would have had some leverage to try a bait and switch of some kind, but they did not. Price was exactly what we had discussed on the phone.

the rest of the saga, well that had nothing to do with the price offered up front!

kevinc5 · January 2013

Which dealer? I'm sure they'd appreciate a plug.

ps004ynos · January 2013

Hi all,

I'm new to these forums. Wife and I have a 1 year old baby and the baby seat is just taking up too much room in our Accord.

She's really interested in the Q5. I've been passively looking around and trying to read more about used vehicles, CPO's, etc. So I came across this listing:

CARFAX Vehicle History Report for this 2011 AUDI Q5 PREMIUM:
http://apicdn.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&key=00cbe74ab3cc73d8c23633ea4149cb- f5&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.audiforums.com%2Fforum%2Faudi-q5-76%2Fbuying-multiple-sh- ort-term-lease-q5-191268%2F&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.carfax.com%2FVehicleHistory%2Fp- %2FReport.cfx%3Fpartner%3DDLR_3%26vin%3DWA1CFAFP2BA079135%23OwnershipHistorySect- ion&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.audiforums.com%2Fforum%2Faudi-q5-76%2F

My questions if anybody knows:
1. Is it a negative to see an Audi being sold at a Toyota dealership?
2. This vehicle had three personal leases, all at around 5-6 months. I've never leased before but these seem like very short leases. Another bad sign?
3. The vehicle was first delivered in Hawaii, then sent to Oregon, then to Palo Alto. I figure shipping any car from Hawaii has to be expensive, is this a sign that the Hawaii dealership really wanted to get rid of a lemon?

Thanks, don't want to come across as paranoid but the price on this vehicle seems a lot lower than others I've come across.

kyfdx · January 2013

That is one weird Carfax. Could possibly be a good explanation, like someone leased in Hawaii, then moved to Oregon with the car. But, either way, they didn't keep it very long.

Could be an Audi employee lease.. Those are generally short-term. Have you asked the Toyota dealer how they got the car?

qbrozen · January 2013

that is odd. I would take the vin to an audi dealer and ask them to pull the warranty history on it.

But, putting that aside, have you actually tried a babyseat in the back of the Q5? Because, according to the specs, the backseats of both an '08-'12 Accord and a Q5 are nearly identical. I don't know what year your accord is. Even an '03-'07 Accord gives up only a half inch rear legroom to the Q5.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2013

I, too was surprised that a leasing company would let someone take the car out of Hawaii. Perhaps they didn't know about it?

verdugo · January 2013

But, putting that aside, have you actually tried a babyseat in the back of the Q5? Because, according to the specs, the backseats of both an '08-'12 Accord and a Q5 are nearly identical. I don't know what year your accord is. Even an '03-'07 Accord gives up only a half inch rear legroom to the Q5.

I was surprised about that too. An Accord is not a tiny car. One car seat for a 1 year old shouldn't be the only reason to trade in.

But it's not my money, so more power to the OP.

ps004ynos · January 2013

Thanks for the information. We haven't actually tried a carseat in the Q5 yet, we're planning to stop by the dealership this weekend to try it out. Again, we're only starting the process of looking so we're not dead set on the Q5. I posted my question mostly because of my inexperience with leases.

That said, I think we're having more issues with the Accord due to 1. height and 2. width

1. We have a Britax Marathon in the center of the backseats right now. Getting our 1 year old in and out is killing our backs because of the lower height of the Accord. We have to stoop pretty far down to put him inside. Once inside, we have to pick him up again to get him over the side of the carseat into the carseat itself. Because the Accord cabin height is lower, he sort of bangs his head during this maneuver.

2. Sometimes my wife sits in the back when the baby is having one of his meltdowns while driving (screaming at the top of his lungs for the duration of the drive). He typically calms down when she sits back there. This isn't all the time, but when she is sitting in the back, with the Marathon carseat in the middle, there's literally no room for her. Her inside arm ends up resting on the carseat edge and it's almost like an economy class airline seat.

3. We're planning on having baby #2 in the near future, so we're starting the car shopping process now.

Again, thanks very very much for your information, greatly appreciated.

stickguy · January 2013

IIRC, from our recent looking, the Q5 was not all that roomy. I would say if yo uare planning on kid 2 soon, so 2 car seats, get something a bit roomier. Maybe MDX sized?

ps004ynos · January 2013

I happened to drive behind an MDX today and the width did look roomier, at least from the outside. We already planned to test drive one soon. My wife's only concern is she has never driven an SUV before (this would be her primary vehicle) so hopefully maneuvering one isn't too challenging for her.

We'll probably look at the CR-V, Highlander, and Prius V as well. I have my doubts about the Prius V though, probably too small?

qbrozen · January 2013

Prius and CRV both too small.

Maybe the new Cmax hybrid? I have no idea how wide it is, but if its like the mazda5, its pretty roomy. At least easy to get kids in and out of. Too bad they don't have the sliding doors.

kyfdx · January 2013

Once you drive a Q5, X3, etc.. It will be hard to step back to the CR-V or RAV4. None of those models are large or hard to maneuver. Most women love the higher seating position. I know my wife does.

robr2 · January 2013

Have you thought about a minivan??

I know, I know - who wants to drive a minivan? Nobody - at first. But once you live with one for a while and haul kids around, go on vacation with them, et al, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.

We've had an Odyssey for 12 years now and although it's relegated to 3rd car status, it still gets used due to its superior ability to comfortably haul people and gear.

stickguy · January 2013

agreed about the van. We got our first when we had our 2nd kid, and only got out of a van a few months ago, when the Baby was turning 17 and could drive herself around!

uga91 · January 2013

I may have a confusing question. I bought a 2011 Nissan Maxima in January 2011 through Nissan Motor Acceptace at 1.9% for 72 months. I owe about $18,850 on it. It's in near perfect condition, completely dealership maintained and has less than 21,000 miles on it. I'm wondering if I'd personally be better off making about 6 more payments and then trading it or should I try to sell it in 3-4 months, bank a couple of payments and get that loan off of my credit report for a couple of months and then just buy a new car? I know most of my payment each month is going toward the principal, so each payment I make will help.

There is nothing wrong with the Maxima and I love driving it--I'm just thinking about getting a car with a more functional back seat and doesn't use premium unleaded gasoline.

timadams · January 2013

I'm curious what kind of vehicles you are entertaining. I've driven a 2011 Maxima, and had an older model myself, and thought the back seats in both were fine. Certainly, there are cars with roomier back seats, including the Subaru Legacy I bought in 2011.

But if finances are an issue - and I'm guessing they are if you took out a 72-month loan :surprise: - you pay sales taxes and registration fees every time you buy a car, and that can add up. Also, I understand that premium fuel costs a bit more than regular. But it looks like you drive about 11k miles per year. If premium costs 20 cents more per gallon and you are getting 25 MPG, that really adds up to only $88 per year.

And one more thing - when you trade a car, you will only get a wholesale price, whereas when you buy a car you are paying retail. In other words, if you sold and bought the same identical car, you would likely lose at least a couple of thousand dollars in the process. Add the wholesale/retail issue, sales taxes and other transaction costs, and you will come out far ahead by simply keeping your Maxima longer.

I know, buying a new car is exciting. But it is very costly to do so every couple of years. What you should really do is pay extra every month so you can pay off the car loan in two years. Then, keep the Maxima an additional two years and save the monthly car payments in a savings account. At that point - four years down the road - you will have a fully paid-off car and two years of payments in the bank as a down payment on your next car. Then, take out a 3-year car loan, keep the car six or seven years and pocket the monthly payments. Do that a couple of times, and you will have enough money to buy cars for cash with no loans.

The bottom line is if you need a 4-, 5- or 6-year loan to buy a car, you really can't afford the car and should look at something a lot cheaper.

uga91 · January 2013

Thanks for the lecture. No, I don't trade cars every 2 years--I had my last 2 cars over 5 years each. That's why I'm not sure which way to go may be the better personal option. No, it's not finances. I took the 6 year loan to get the payments low when I need a low payment and I pay extra when I can, as well--that's how I got a $30k loan to $18.8k in 2 years. If NMAC wants to give away 0% for 60 months or 1.9% for 72 months, then I might as well take advantage of it and use my money to pay off thinks that will have higher interest rates.

I have 3 children and they are only getting bigger and when the 5 of us go places in my car, someone always complains of being cramped. We do have a Sienna, so please don't suggest I get a van or SUV. I was thinking about something like a new Accord or Altima.

This is the first car I've ever owned that used premium and I'm no longer having fun paying the premium for it (I get 21-22 mpg back & forth from work, not 25). At 11k miles per year at 22mpg, that's 500 gallons per year at $4 per gallon (right now, this is the cheapest premium has been for a while) or $2000 a year. In a new car getting 28 mpg on $3.30 regular fuel, that's $1296 a year, or $704 a year cheaper--quite a bit more than the $88 calculated above.

I was just wondering if anyone out there had any helpful advice for this question or not. Maybe it really is a stupid question; but, I'd rather get advice than a lecture from someone who doesn't know me.

qbrozen · January 2013

I took the 6 year loan to get the payments low when I need a low payment and I pay extra when I can, as well--that's how I got a $30k loan to $18.8k in 2 years. If NMAC wants to give away 0% for 60 months or 1.9% for 72 months, then I might as well take advantage of it and use my money to pay off thinks that will have higher interest rates.

Absolutely! I do this all the time.

As for the premium concern, you absolutely can run regular fuel in your Maxima. The computer will take care of the timing so you won't feel any ill effects. It could impact your mileage, however. You'll have to test it and see.

But, putting cost aside, if you need a bigger car, then you need a bigger car.

While I can't predict the future value of your trade-in, it is usually best to pay it down as much as possible. You would only be gaining equity with every month that goes by. So try to hold out as long as you can. At the same time, you gotta do what you gotta do. I just don't think any midsize sedan is going to give you a whole lot more room, but that's another topic.

As for "getting it off your credit report," don't worry about it. When you tell the dealership "I sold that car," everything will be fine. They can work with their lenders to straighten it out.

billy3554 · January 2013

You are correct in taking out the loan for as long as possible when the interest rate is low. It is like getting money for nothing. I do it on every car and I am in a position where I can pay off a loan in two years. Also, having a long history of paid a agreed loans is very helpful to a person's credit score.

Really, only a person unfamiliar with finance concepts would suggest anyone taking out a loan for more than 2 years is purchasing a vehicle they can't afford. If that were the case, most of us would be driving a Yugo.

One thing to consider regarding selling your Maxima to a private party or trading it on a new vehicle is you won't get the sales tax break if you sell to a private party, in most states. This can be considerable. If your car trades at $20,000 and the sales tax rate is 6% the sales tax break on the new purchase is $1,200. This means the private sale would need to be more than $21,200 to be more of an advantage than trading the vehicle.

It is likely a Nissan dealer will offer more for the Maxima. Use Kelly Blue Book and NADA for the value of the Maxima which will give you a good idea of what the vehicle is worth. With a fairly clean vehicle I have always found a dealer willing to meet the KBB or NADA values. Any dealer who does not come close is, in my opinion, lowballing the trade value. At a minimum get up a leave, better to leave and go to a different dealer.

Finally, at 11,000 miles a year the expected savings in gas would be more than $500 not $88 as you noted.

uga91 · January 2013

One thing to consider regarding selling your Maxima to a private party or trading it on a new vehicle is you won't get the sales tax break if you sell to a private party, in most states. This can be considerable

I didn't even think of this--good idea, thanks.

uga91 · January 2013

As for the premium concern, you absolutely can run regular fuel in your Maxima. The computer will take care of the timing so you won't feel any ill effects. It could impact your mileage, however.

I feel funny running regular whent they recommend premium--besides, if mileage comes down, then I'm not really saving anything in the end.

Thank you for the suggestions.

timadams · January 2013

While 1.9% is pretty cheap as far as loan interest, it is still higher than you can earn in a savings account, money market fund, short-term CD rates or anywhere else you can deposit money at low risk for 2-6 years. So, despite what the previous two posters indicated, borrowing at 1.9 percent isn't a particularly shrewd move. It's not a horrendous decision, granted, but it's certainly not "free money" in today's interest climate. Borrowing at 0% is a different story, so if you had said you took out a loan at 0%, I wouldn't have assumed you took out a 6-year loan due to affordability.

After making 24 payments on a 72-month $30k car loan, the balance should be $20,377. So, you've made about $1,500 in extra payments, or $62 extra per month. That's good, but it only reduces the loan term to 5.25 years. I would encourage paying even more extra every month to shorten it further.

As for selling the Maxima, you could probably buy a replacement car that has a bigger back seat and gets better fuel mileage, but both changes would be relatively modest, I would wager. It's easy enough to look up interior dimensions in Edmunds, and a 4-cylinder car would get better mileage than your Maxima. If that's what you want to do, go for it. Perhaps a different car really would satisfy your desires and needs better. From a lifestyle perspective, it might be justifiable.

But don't pretend that it makes financial sense to sell or trade a two year old car. You've already taken the biggest depreciation hit, and there are transaction costs that are difficult to avoid. Getting modest gains in MPG or saving one cent per mile by using non-premium fuel, however, wouldn't come close to the depreciation and transaction costs involved with buying a new car.

verdugo · January 2013

I have 3 children and they are only getting bigger and when the 5 of us go places in my car, someone always complains of being cramped ... I was thinking about something like a new Accord or Altima.

Isn't the Altima smaller than the Maxima?

houdini1 · January 2013

My take on financial transactions such as this is very similar to yours. A move like this might be very satisfying in getting rid of a car you no longer like, but financially, it is hard to justify.

uga91 · January 2013

Well, I bought the car in January, 2011, so my first payment was in March, 2011--meaning I've made 23 payments and not 24. No big deal. Either way, I'll probably ditch this plan, anyway. The 5 of us ride in the car maybe twice a month and I really do enjoy driving it--so my thinking out loud was probably all for naught, anyway.

timadams · January 2013

The Maxima would be vastly more fun to drive than a 4-cylinder sedan, for sure. If any of your kids are still in car seats, I can see why the back seat might be tight. But if they are old enough to forego car seats, then I would think the back seat would be fine for three kids. I used to have 5 people in my Maxima quite frequently, at least for short trips. Since you have a van already, that would be the family truckster, but that depends on whether the van is available when you need it.

I really didn't intend to lecture you or pass judgement. I was simply pointing out factors involved with depreciation, sales taxes, fees and car dealer profits all cost money for consumers. That's not to say everyone should drive their cars for 10 years or more - though that is clearly the way to minimize costs. Needs and desires change. But trading one sedan for another for modest gains in fuel costs and interior dimensions are hard to justify on a purely financial basis.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

beethovengirl · January 2013

I can get a 2012 Toyota Prius Three with solar roof for $24,809 + TTL, or a 2013 Prius Three with solar roof for $25,944 + TTL. I'm inclined to get the 2012, since I plan to keep my car for awhile.

What do you think?

Kirstie_H · January 2013

For make/model-specific questions, you're probably better off posting in the Prices Paid discussion for that model. Here's the Prius Prices Paid discussion:
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.f1d1fb3/1088

verdugo · January 2013

I'm inclined to get the 2012, since I plan to keep my car for awhile.

If you're keeping it for a long time, I'd choose the 2013.

Say you keep it 6 years, that's less (1135/6) than $200 extra a year. And remember, when you do get rid of it, you'll get a bit more for the 2013.

I'm not familiar with the Prius, but are there any changes/upgrades between the 2012 and 2013?

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