Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Options
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
I just closed on a 2013 Acura ILX Premium, polished metallic (grey) with black leather interior. The dealer provided a great price initially in response to the "e-price" link on their website, responded immediately by email in response to a request for an OTD quote, and negotiated the entire transaction in about three phone calls. I never actually went into the dealer, having test driven the model when I had as a service loaner and someone else going to the dealer to pick up the vehicle. Used FedEx to sign the papers and deliver the purchase price via cashier's check.
The deal:
$24,988 Sales price
1,620 Sales tax
149 Dealer doc fee
143 Other taxes/title
$26,900 Total OTD
Comparisons (without taxes and fees):
$28,790 Edmunds TMV
$28,137 TrueCar
$26,600 CarsDirect
I paid less than what I was quoted for a base model a month ago. With the 2014s now on the lot, there are great deals on the 2013s.
This is the future for a lot of buyers: using technology to avoid the hassles of the four square, the 30+ minutes of sitting there waiting for the sales guy to "talk" to the sales manager, etc. that many dealers like to use when you're there in person.
"Bought a car approximately 30 days ago. The dealer called and stated that the original contract had gotten destroyed in transit to the bank by UPS. They are now wanting us to resign the contract which I do not feel comfortable with. Since there's apparently no contract can this sale be null and void? At this point with all the hassle I would just like to give the car back and be given my down payment back, without it going on my credit history as a REPO. I've since investigated the dealer which has had many issues. They have a score of a D+ with the BBB. Am I obligated to resign this contract?"
To me, it looks like the buyer is trying to use this mishap as a reason to back out of the contract they agreed to.
I'm not certain of all of the legal aspects but it isn't that unusual for a contract to need to be re-signed.
The buyer had use of a new car for a month and now they see an opportunity to back out?? They really should see an attorney.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
I think I'm going to tell them to talk to an attorney if unwinding the deal is what they really want.
The contract can't be "lost" to the computers as well, or else they couldn't ask for it to be re-signed.
Are contracts actually hand-delivered in paper anymore to banks?
Something doesn't sound right here and to me, it look like the buyer is grasping at straws in an attempt to weasel out of the deal.
The Disappointed Sandman :sick: :shades:
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
I think I said "something" sounds not right here.
Only a sloppy store would not react to not being funded on a deal until after 30 days.
I don't think I "crucified" anyone or say that dealer was "above reproach"
After a lifetime in retail management I will admit to becoming cynical at times after having seen every trick in the book played.
I learned that to some, the value of a handshake means nothing. Not the way I was brought up.
Had you spent almost 14 years in the car business I don't think you would be feeling so disappointed.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I wouldn't have minded having him as a customer.
Thanks. I think you would have put me on your Xmas card list.
I would have bought my 2012 Civic from Isell, if he lived in the Louisville area.
I've always been friendly and respectful to my salesman. The majority of which have been fairly nice guys. If a deal can't be made, no hard feelings.
My comments were against the buyer, as well, and I'm not a salesman. The buyer did not express any reason for wanting to back out other than simply wanting to just because they were asked to come sign the same damned contract they already agreed to and signed. If the buyer left important details out of the story, it is their own damned fault. My conclusion was drawn from the information provided by the buyer, nothing more, nothing less. If it walks like a duck....
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Everytime I've bought a car, I got a copy of the contract. If the dealership wants him to sign a new contract, just make sure all the numbers match his copy of the original contract.
My F&I guy transposed a number and Honda kicked it back over two cents!
Not that uncommon but this was caught in four days, not a MONTH!
In 1998 I leased a GMC Yukon. The contract had 15k miles per year but GMAC said it should have been 12k. They did want me to sign a new contract for that but I refused. Somehow the dealer and GMAC worked it out. I never got the details and I sold it before the lease was up...
sadder, I was the one that finally figured it out. They somehow still thought I just got the wrong key fob, which made no logical sense at all.
would have been funny if they tried to sell "my" car before i went to swap it out!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
The correct money factor was supposed to be .00236 and they used .00239... AHFC kicked it back...
Saved me about $1/month!!
Most stories I hear about new buyer's not wanting to re-sign contracts are purely buyer's remorse.. and, thinking that this might be a way out...
Others just don't like car dealer's, and like to think they have the upper hand (for once)...
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
I'm looking at a 4 owner 2002 Corolla LE with 100k miles with a sticker price of $6,995. No side front airbags and no ABS, really clean but definitely not new (few scrapes, wheels are scraped). There are a few other 02's w similar specs that are priced at other dealers for right about the same amount, so, in that sense, it seems to be a fair price. However, after looking at trade in value for that car, I see that the MOST the dealer would have paid (and I'm sure they didn't pay for a "clean" trade-in) would have been $3,800. In addition, KBB, Edmunds, NADA, and Black Book all say that this vehicle should retail, in outstanding condition, for about $6,100.
So, of course, my question is what would a fair price be for this vehicle?
But you do need to keep that in mind ("few minutes", I mean). One of their negotiating tactics is to tie you up for hours and wear you down. Be prepared, be serious, make your offer and move on. Either on the phone or in person.
Another good tactic is using the bottom line, this has always been one of my favorites. "I have $5,500 available, I will write you a check right now and take the car with me." If the salesman comes back with, "I have to check with my manager", then you look at your watch and say, "I have to be somewhere. You can call me with your answer." Then leave. Do not hang around.
A dealer may very well sell you a car on a $1500 flip if he has no money in the car.
Go to cragislist and see what private parties are asking, then knock 5-10% off that. Be sure to only pick "comparables", so no "pristine" Corollas or cars with considerably more or less miles than yours, or higher or lower trim levels.
I'm seein' $5500 asking for nice clean low mileage 2002 LEs here in California.
That dealer has made the decision to wait for someone to walk in and pay the asking price. Sadly, someone probably will. I would simply move on down the road and find a better car at a better price. That dealer doesn't sound like someone I would want to do business with.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
To my mind, there are only 3 reasons to shop at a dealership:
1. Convenient -- you go in, you sit down, and you drive away, all signed up, paperwork on its way to you.
2. Financing -- dealers might offer alternative financing to people who are really hard up for a loan and need help getting one (often at high interest)
3. Higher Degree of Liability--a dealer can't do many of the treacherous things a private party can do to you and get away with it.
One reason private party asking prices are lower is that the private party usually wants the car gone--a dealer can sit on a car for a year if he wants to.
Initially I had no desire to go through a dealership, but after looking non-stop on popular private seller sites I decided that, for reason 1., it might be worth my time to shop at dealers as well.
Let's say it keeps getting repeated by knowledgeable folks like the forum members at Edmunds.com that this car is worth $5,000. In that case it would be reasonable to think that the guy who owns the dealership also knows in his/her heart of hearts that $5,000 is what this car is worth.
My question is, what is a more reasonable assumption about how dealers purchase their vehicles: (1) They know the car is worth $5,000, they buy it at $3,500 and mark it up to $7,000 hoping for a sweetheart of a buyer but with the possibility of selling it at $5,000 to a smart buyer. (2) They know the car is worth $5,000 but, since they aren't looking to sell cars to knowledgeable buyers (and since wholesalers know how the game works), they buy it at $4,500 and mark it up to $7,000 looking for a sweetheart buyer with no intention of letting it go to a knowledgeable buyer for $5,000.
IMO, the cheaper the price range, the more sense to go private.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
basically, they know people usually expect to negotiate, so they pad the price to give room for the "my kids won't eat this month" discount. And of course, for the jackpot of a buyer that walks in, and just pays the tag price. Hey, you can always lower, but hard to raise the price!
I think you are overlooking another group of buyers. payment buyers. they are usually the 2nd type I listed, but just interested in the monthly, so the dealer uses the higher asking price combined with an extended term to get the monthly nut where the buyer wants it.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I rather doubt the dealer paid very much for this car, or if he did and he's buried in it, he's not a very good used car dealer then, is he? ("oh, darn, I just kept raising my hand at the auction because I was sooo excited, and then...")---
Any good dealer knows that the buyer sets the market, not him. The dealer cannot force the market beyond what it will bear. The only way this car might be sold at that asking price is to someone who has no money, doesn't care what the car costs, but just wants to hear about an affordable monthly payment.
Anyone else is going to bargain. No one can set an exact price on a used car, be cause all used cars are different.
I heard about some scrapes and some curb rash, and so I took a guess.
First, any pricing service such as True Car does not represent the best price. The best price will almost always result from research and face-to-face negotiation with a sales person. There is a cost for the convenience provided by these services.
Buying a new car does not have to be difficult. The key is knowledge. Recognize there are three parts to most deals. Those are the price, the trade, and financing.
Recognize dealers are smart and most are honest. They want to make a deal but they also want to make a profit. It is best to be upfront. Nothing is gained by trying to be cute. For example, nothing is gained by trying to hide the trade.
Develop a realistic price at which a dealer may sell. Use invoice less incentives and holdback to compute a baseline price. Add a bit of profit, perhaps start with 3 to 4 percent, and negotiate up from that number. Do not move up too quickly.
Use Edmunds, KBB, and NADA to price the value of any trade. Be realistic as to the condition of the vehicle.
Obtain your credit score and research available financing.
Use one of the many calculators available to arrive at a monthly payment goal.
Research dealerships online. Edmunds' provides a lot of information to identify dealers who represent the good guys along with those dealers which are more problamatic.
Recognize there are two parties to a deal. Both must accept the terms of the deal. If an agreement can be reached, fine. If not, maybe time to reassess the parameters of the deal. There is always another dealer. If all dealers are not close to your numbers it may be your numbers need to be adjusted.
Say no to every product offered by the F&I sales person. They are all overpriced and most have limited value. However, allow the F&I person an opportunity to finance the vehicle. There are many benefits to this.
Recognize the sales person is not an enemy. He or she is simply part of the process. The F&I person, on the other hand, is someone you need to approach with caution. A good deal can be destroyed very quickly in the F&I room.
With research and an honest understanding of your position along with the dealer's goals buying a new vehicle today truly does not have to be stressful.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
http://www.leasingdirectny.com/details.php?id=89
Seems be even better than what Honda direct is offiering (http://automobiles.honda.com/current-offers-detail.aspx?modelname=Civic Sedan- &offerid=73186&modelid=FB2F5DEW&sf=2&ft=1)
and I'm not sure how that's even possible. I thought it would always be cheaper to buy from
car manufacturer as middlemen just jack up the price.
My second q is if it's worth to wait till 2014 version and maybe then i can get 2013 civic
for less money?
So... the Honda deal is about $215/mo. + tax.. (with no downpayment)
The broker deal is about $215/mo. including tax (adding the acq.fee)
A couple of things to ponder...
1) The lease broker deal is the same Honda Finance lease as the advertised deal... the damage waiver is the tipoff.. that is a Honda Finance thing.. they are just using a dealer that is cutting them a better price than the price assumed in the advertised deal... (good enough to give you a lower price and still make a few hundred for themselves)
2) You can try to negotiate the same deal as the lease broker, yourself.. at the dealer. You may be successful, as you won't have to factor in the broker's profit. (and, you eliminate a 3rd party from your deal)
regards,
kyfdx
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
thanks so much for this.
So as things stand now I'm better going with leasedirectny offer rather than going directly to honda dealer?
Should I expect 2013 prices to come down?
Also, folks often don't get the color combination they want.
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and let us know! Post a pic of your new purchase or lease!
MODERATOR
2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4
He lowered 210/month to 180/month. First month:650.95(bank fee)+325(dmv)+59.46(tax bank fee)=1055.41
The other 35 months come out to 35x180=7350
The thing is he didn't let me take the paperwork home, despite mine asking several times, I had to write it down on his business card.
My friend told me that's sure sign of trouble.
Just write those numbers down when you go to pick up the car.... and, if it's different, head for the door..
I think you did the right thing... you took that broker deal into the dealer and they matched it... no point in putting a 3rd party into the transaction, if you can get the deal yourself..
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
Now, if you asked for some extra time in the dealership to review the terms of the contract and they refused and just pushed for you to sign it before reading it, THAT'S a bad sign.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
Share your vehicle reviews
"I can do the same If not better but not thru Honda financial bank".
of course, who knows if they are better or worse in terms of fees and stuff at the end.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Stick with Honda Finance lease..
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
I was taught, in school, many decades ago, to toss out the "outliers". If any survey result comes back with all answers pegged at the top, throw that one out. Same if all answers are pegged at the bottom.
So what exactly is going on? Have they all been told by their bosses to repeat this story in hopes of maximizing their survey results? Or is it really true, any result less than perfect doesn't count? I find the latter really hard to believe, right up there with "clap to save TinkerBelle". And don't tell my granddaughter that I said that last part, or I'll have to kill you!
This is one of the most contentious topics here.
Yes, many of the manufacturers have instituted a "pass / fail" system for the surveys. Anything that is not a top score is treated as a zero, and will affect dealership and salesperson compensation.
The dealers and salesfolks want us to collude with them to 'game' the system by asking that we provide nothing but top marks. Some dealers have been known to bribe the customers.
Yes, this flies in the face of how statistics are meant to work.
I agree with you that this is wrong, that the purpose of the survey is to provide honest feedback to the dealer about what went right and what went wrong with the sales transaction so that the dealer can make improvements.
Unlikely that there will ever be any changes.
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and let us know! Post a pic of your new purchase or lease!
MODERATOR
2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4
On a scale of 1-5 a 4 is a failing grade.
Teachers and engineers were the worst.
Yes, there is always room for improvement. Nobody is perfect.
A customer finds a flyspeck in the paint and gives a 4 in that category and it kills the store and the salesperson.
Horrible system!!