Toyota 4Runner

jere39 · February 2003

About two weeks ago I posted a question about life expectency of Catalytic converter. My 97 4Runner with 96k miles was diagnosed dysfunctional by PA Emissions testing. As you might imagine the parts are extremely expensive (list to customer about $1200), and the labor is standard rate about 2 hours. Toyota dealer quoted an 8 year/80000 mile warranty though I never actually saw that in writing. Cut to the good news, my dealer and the Toyota District agreed to cover the parts, I covered the labor. At 96k miles it is the first failure, so I can't complain. Still haven't heard from any other source that this was a typical end of life failure.

cliffy1 · February 2003

Your memory was of a 8/80K warranty on the converter yet you talked Toyota into covering it when you had 96K miles? Good trick.

stever · February 2003

Allen53fl, did you look around eBay? Worth a shot....

Steve, Host

sween77 · February 2003

I have 2 KY dealers from different dealerships who have told me that the appearance package option for the SR5 will soon (month or so) be available on the sport. Is this true?

rickwil61 · February 2003

I test drove the 2003 4Runner yesterday. I drove two models, the V8 Sport and the SR5 with a V6. The Sport was first. Two things I noticed pretty quickly was the ride seemed kind of stiff for my liking and the wind noise was pretty noticeable. I don't think it's something you couldn't live with but I was surprised how noticeable the wind was for all the reviews I've read that talked about how quiet the 4Runner is. The ride kind of reminded me of riding in a pickup truck. It didn't beat you to death but it was nice and firm. The V8 power was really nice. Smooth and quiet.

Then I took the SR5 V6 out. I definitely like the ride of the SR5 better. It was a little more car like, more giving over the bumps. Body roll didn't seem that bad. Of course the only test I did was to zig zag while driving down the street and go around a few sharp corners on some back roads. I didn't do any kind of high speed cornering test so maybe the roll would be more evident in that situation. The wind noise was also noticeably less in the SR5. An earlier post I read speculated that maybe it was the hood scoop generating the extra noise. This seems like a reasonable theory to me because that is the only aerodynamic difference between the two that I'm aware of. The V6 power was nice although you could tell it had to work a little harder to get you up to speed under heavy acceleration. I don't see power being a problem with either engine.

The JBL stereo sounded good and is something I would definetly want. I am a music lover though, so maybe a lot of people would be satisfied with the standard stereo.

Overall I really like the SR5 V6 better and am looking a trading my 2000 Honda CRV for one. I visited a dealership in Denver and the Internet Manager quoted me a price of $500 over invoice. How does that sound for this area? I do notice several of them on dealership lots so I wonder how well they're selling right now.

I also have what may be a dumb question to some, but what is the advantage of 17" wheels over the 16"? Also I'm looking at doing a special order because I want to get one without the sunroof but that has the JBL stereo. Will I be able to order one like this or will I have to get the sunroof to get the upgraded stereo?

sstatic · February 2003

Cliffy1, I'll check just to see what info it may have. Thanks again!

MrWhipple...thanks!

)

khaug · February 2003

Hi Rick. We've had our '03 V8 Limited since Thanksgiving and now have 4K miles on it. Some comments:

-The ride will soften up considerably within the first thousand miles. I'd guess this will be true for both the standard and X-REAS suspension. If a car-like ride is a major item for you and you're going for the V6 anyway, you might want to drive a Highlander before ordering a 4Runner

-I'm guessing that when you drove the SR5, you managed to avoid headwinds, and encountered them while driving the Sport. Headwinds, even moderate ones, make a colossal difference in cabin noise, much moreso than any other vehicle I've ever experienced. Headwinds also dramatically increase fuel consumption at Interstate speeds. Wind is your enemy in this truck!

-The 17" wheel comes with slightly bigger brake rotors, always a good thing IMHO. Otherwise, the only difference is cosmetic.

Good luck.

-Karl

vodgut · February 2003

$500 or so over invoice at the dealers here in Denver seems fairly standard. You might be able to do a bit better, it certainly wouldn't hurt to price one out with the options that are on the vehicle you're specifically interested in on www.carsdirect.com. The prices on there seem to be slightly lower than what some dealers may do up front, and it will at least give you a bargaining point.

Doc fees may vary, too, so check those out.

67gp · February 2003

While checking a dealer for Sports today I saw 2 SR5's w/ painted cladding. One was done by the dealer-colors didn't match exactly(galactic grey)and the price was about $1900!-the other was done by toyota, had the smooth cladding-the colors matched exactly-and cost a little over $300. I finally located a V6 Sport to drive-it was the only Sport on the lot & this dealer has a large inventory(salesman claims that sports only last a day or three). The power was nice and would be more than adequate for me(not as impressive as the V8).No JBL however(also had 6 disc CD changer-cassette type- stuck in storage area between seats) Color green looked OK to me-but not as nice as silver or grey. So I am still waffling between V6 & V8-I would love to see some more actual V6 MPG's. Also does anyone know 0-60 or 1/4 mile times for V6-or maybe Torque vs. HP curve like the one linked previously for the V8? thanks to all for the info.

fishingguy · February 2003

67gp, in your last post you mentioned "smooth cladding" on a couple of SR5's. Was it the sam shape as the Limited cladding or still different? What city are you in as Atl dealers cannot find vehicles with this option? Thanks. FWIW there is no way I would buy a dealer painted option, esp for $1900. I can see that stuff looking nasty once a few rocks hit it and chip off the paint.

jeffjeff · February 2003

Please help me. I need to disable the DRL on my 2002 4Runner and I need to do it as soon as possible. I saw a bulletin for how to do it with a 2000 Runner I believe but I don't know if that applies to the 2002. But, if it does, is it a hard process to complete. I don't really know much about splicing and electrical circuits and wires so I may have to get outside assistance, but Toyota certainly can't help me, they are not allowed to disable them for safety reasons. If anyone has done this, please let me know or if you know of any informative websites, please state them. Your help would be greatly appreciated.

steveb84 · February 2003

Looking through my spec sheets, it looks like you should be able to order any of the JBL stereos without ordering the Moonroof, however, it is required that you order the Leather Steering Wheel & Shift Knob (NE). Curtain & Side Airbags (GY) are also available as a stand-alone option. (no conflicts or requirements)

I hope that helps.

Steve

jaredmsd · February 2003

I did a special order and they told me I could pick through the options one-by-one and not worry about the packages. As Steveb said though, the JBL upgrade requires the steering wheel upgrade.

-Jared

sween77 · February 2003

The sales professionals I spoke to said that in March the Sport would be available in the new appearance mono-cladding option. I specificly asked if they were talking about painted cladding. They both said no they were talking about the Sport being offered with the same appearnce package as the SR5. This was 2 sales professionals from 2 different dealerships who told me the same thing. However I realize that this doesnt make it so. If some of you guys with connections could look into this I would appreciate it.

rawillia · February 2003

Can anyone tell me if they have been able to purchase a 4WD Limited (V6 or V8) with the X-REAS Suspension or a V8 with the Air Suspension in the Southeastern US area, ie Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Florida. I have not been able to find one listed in any inventory from this area and am wondering if they are available here.
I have driven a Sport model and thought that the handling was very good but have not had a chance to try a Limited without the X-REAS. Is there a big difference in the handling between the two?

Thanks,
Roger

vodgut · February 2003

You can probably tell what option packages are available in your area by going to Toyota's website then doing the 'Build your own' thing. Given a zipcode, you can see what's available in a non-special order vehicle. They probably don't offer X-REAS in the southeast as standard, which means to get it I'd guess you could go out of region or special order it.

The Limited's around here all have X-REAS. I test drove an SR5 that didn't have it, but it was a pretty short test drive, whereas my drive in the Limited was longer. I didn't notice a huge difference during that short time, but from what others have said I believe it does make a difference.

beagles3 · February 2003

I had a 99 I just traded in and at about 89,000 mi I had to replace the rotors and front shocks because of the vibration problem. Yes, once I found someone with the right tool, I was able to get my tires rebalanced,but, afterwards, I still noticed the vibration in which the above two things help rectify the situation! Words of advice, make sure that you run a fairly smooth tire if you want a smooth ride, you won't have this with mud tires and two, replacing the shocks and rotors helped in making the ride smooth and comfortable again. Funny, never had any brake problems and then, wham, the rotors were found to be so warped that they could not be machined...

toyotaken · February 2003

The cladding and bumpers are all color-keyed. They are not just "painted" grey cladding. The anti-scratch coating on the grey cladding does not hold paint very well, so they have the same material used in the limited models. As far as I know and have been told, and I have asked specifically, the appearance package will ONLY be available for the SR-5 model and will not be available on the Sport model

Ken

67gp · February 2003

I saw these in Sacramento area. The one done by dealer had the cladding with the squared off protrusions(as on the sport & SR5- I'm not sure if the limiteds have this type or a smooth type-I think Limiteds have smooth type). The salesman said it was expensive because of large amount of prep work required to make the surface accept the paint. The one that cost big bucks done at the dealer didn't look nearly as good as the other-as I mentioned the colors didn't even match exactly.

mrwhipple · February 2003

The Appearance Package is smooth, same as the Limited. Dealers are already receiving them.

fishingguy · February 2003

Thanks for response 67gp. I hate to beat a dead horse but I just want to get a very specific answer... Did the color keyed cladding NOT done by the dealer have the squared off protusions or were is smooth with a lower profile? The smooth with lower profile cladding is what the Limited has.

jf01 · February 2003

I think Toyota can give you a TSB about disabling the DRLs, but they aren't allowed to do it for you, I think. You may be able to find the TSB online somewhere, I know there's a site that has it but I don't remember the address.

stever · February 2003

The Edmunds Maintenance Guide has TSB summaries, but I don't see anything related to the headlights off-hand. Alldata.com may have some different info.

Steve, Host

cevans2 · February 2003

Thanx to all for the responses on the steering wheel vibration issue.
Nippononly - my brakes used to pulse a little at highway speeds but that has subsided (I'm not sure how or why). As per the 4 technicians who have looked at the truck so far, the brakes and rotors are OK. I'm going to check further into that anyway.
KHAUG - I actually found some info about that Haweka adapter on another internet site and inquired at my dealership about it. Very interesting to find out that these factory wheels are lugcentric. Wonder why Toyo would do such a thing when they know very few tire places are capable of properly balancing them? Anyway, the service guy at my dealership said that they do have the adapter and the newest version of balancing machine, but it is in their new service building that is under construction and is due to be opened in next few weeks. He said to bring the truck back and they would work on it for free until they get it right, even if they have to take it to the new bldg.- wonder how long that will take. Stupid me, I forgot to get his name, too. We'll see how it goes.
Beagles3- the truck only has 50K on it and has never seen anything other than paved road -albeit NYC paved roads which in some spots can get pretty rough. If it needs shocks already, I'd be surprised, but I'll get them checked.
Hopefully, I'll get this resolved pretty soon- I've been dealing with it for a while and now I have the time (and $$ if nec.) to get it fixed.

beagles3 · February 2003

I kind of speak from experience because here in the Seattle area, I tried four different tire shops until I found a Discount Tire store that had a special machine (road force variance) that could find the flat spots/etc..on a tire and when they balanced the first time it took about 80% of the vibration out. After I visited my dealer, upon inspection they found out one of the shocks was leaking, the rotors were warped and I had a rear axle seal leaking...anyway, I replaced all the shocks, had to replace the rotors because they were too far gone and all was well. I never took my veh offroad (except for cutting x-mas trees/skiing) and they just wore for some reason/defect:(

Good luck....I loved mine and when i traded in last month, i got a 2002 Limited:)

mrwhipple · February 2003

The factory Appearance Package is the same thing on the Limited (smooth).

The other version you are seeing are the ones the dealers are just spraying color over the gray cladding, which have the square notches in them.

The factory package is much cheaper and will hold up better.

davulture · February 2003

Anybody out there have any pics of the SR5 with the appearance pkg. This could help seal the deal on my next car purchase !

rickwil61 · February 2003

I stopped by a different Toyota dealer on the way home tonight and showed them the $500 over invoice deal that I had gotten from the dealership in Denver. They couldn't touch it. I've got a couple more that I'm going to try but it looks like a pretty good deal. I imagine I'll make a decision this week. It will definetlely be a special order though because there are none around built the way I want it.

I also got to drive another V6 tonight. I was giving some thought to going with the V8 but I think the V6 will have plenty of power for my purposes. Does anybody know if the V6 is steel sleeved? I just want to know that when I get several years down the road that boring and rebuilding is a possibility. I hope it isn't a throw away aluminum engine like the Chevy Vega was in the early 70s.

rickwil61 · February 2003

Last night I priced a 4Runner at carsdirect.com. I selected the appearance package but noticed that when I did that it deselected the fog lights. Can you not have fog lights with the AP or are they included as part of the package? I can't imagine not being able to have them but I'm just trying to figure out why it wouldn't allow me to select both.

Also the salesman that I talked to tonight said the SR5s with the AP should be coming out sometime in March but that the Sport models would still have the same gray cladding. I know that people have been hearing it both ways so I guess we'll have to wait and see what the truth is. But I thought I'd pass along what I was told.

mrwhipple · February 2003

The fog lights are included with the Appearance Package.

Some dealers already have them on the lots.

rickwil61 · February 2003

Have any of you with the 2003 4Runner and 17 inch wheels had any problem with the tires rubbing the fender wells when off-roading? I assume the tires are bigger in circumference and just wondered if it caused any problems.

I also assume that it throws the speedometer off a little, is this correct?

I guess I should be careful about all this assuming... But the 17 inch wheels look pretty good.

sween77 · February 2003

1. Could someone offer me a better explanation about Sunroof windnoise? Does the noise only occur when the roof is up? Or does the noise persist even when the roof is closed? It also appears that some say head clearance is lost with the sunroof and others say the opposite.

2. I checked with other sources on the Appearance package and was told with 100% certanity that the Sport will be offered with the SR5 appearnce package. They will be available in about 1 month.

pat84 · February 2003

The sun roof is a piece of glass with a sliding cover. The sliding cover is maybe a 1/4 inch thick. The glass is equal in height with the top of the 4Runner. You have the maximum head room under the sun roof. I drive with the seat at its furthest rearward position so my head ends up under the sunroof. I am 6-1 and have plenty of head room. I have only had the sun roof open once. I didn't notice any unexpected wind noise or resonant frequency buffeting either in the full open or tilt position. I have the Sport. It is exceptionally quiet riding,IMO.
If you are very tall, with very short legs, your head may not be under the sun roof. You would be used to having such a tough time buying clothes, that having a little less head room would be a small problem by comparison. .

fishingguy · February 2003

OK the appearance pkg looks to be on its way to Atl dealers. I was not really expecting it until the end of Feb. Thanks Mr Whipple for your patience on my questions. Does anyone know where I can find high quality aftermarket floor and trunk mats for really nasty stuff? I tend to get some muddy feet from fishing and throw alot of Home Depot stuff in back.

fishingguy · February 2003

Can anyone share towing experiences with their 2003 4runner? My boat is only 2k lbs and I am sure the vehicle handle the weight. I was wondering what anyone's experience has been with sway, acceleration, braking while towing. Thanks.

johnm27 · February 2003

Need some assistance. Just picked up my 03 4Runner Limited early this month and got just about everything in it but a Nav system. Problem is, one of my required options was X-Reas, which I paid for, but I bought the car out of dealer inventory and just assumed it had it because the salesman knew that that was one of my options and he even thought it was on this 4R LTD. Well it didn't have the X-Reas and I didn't find that out until I took the car home and reviewed the Factory Accessories Worksheet. The dealer now tells me that it would be very, very difficult for them to retrofit the X-Reas into my 4R LTD now be cause of the Chasis, and that they would like to discuss some type of refund. So, my question to this 4Runner forum readers is, is the dealer being upfront with me, or just giving me a load of crap so that they don't have to do the work?? And if I insisted on them installing the X-Reas, could I expect any problems with the vehicle going forward as a result of a retrofit??
I am by no means mechanically inclined so I need to solely rely on your honest input here. Thanks you for hearing me out and hope you can assist me.

pat84 · February 2003

I am curious what is a factory accessory work sheet ? My 4Runner (and every vehicle I have bought) had a sticker on the door listing the standard and optional equipment. I sure check that out before I go in to buy it. That includes vehicles I have ordered as well as bought off the lot.
        I'd be skeptical about adding the X-reas after the fact.
  Perhaps a reasonable solution would be to trade them vehicles for one with the options you paid for. They could turn your present Limited into a demo.
  I know this sounds crazy, but my wife did this exact thing. Her Saturn was totalled in an accident that was the other driver's fault. She bought a Nissan Altima while I was on a business trip. It didn't have ABS. I said, "Well here's what happens when you stop at the dealer next door to the Saturn dealer and buy a car." ( they are right next to each other) She called the Nissan dealer and said she wanted ABS. They gave her another brand new Altima with ABS and (side curtain air bags because it is an option package) and made her first Altima, with over 300 miles on it, into a demo. I was dumbfounded that any dealer would do this. They did charge her for the additional option package. So it's not a totally unreasonable request.

peter78 · February 2003

Actually the circumference and overall height is the same for the 16" and 17" tires. How can that be? Well, when you increase the size of the rim you decrease the side wall of the tire. The tires are either 265/70R16 or 265/65R17. Notice the width of the tire is the same, but the side of the tire is reduce.

In Atlanta I have seen 18" tires on some 4Runners. The tires would have to be 265/60R18 in order to keep the same height and circumference.

Generally speaking the lower the overall aspect ratio of the side wall, you will have better handling on the road. That would be the 18" tire. With the higher aspect ratio you would have a better ride and with more flex in the tire, better off road handling. That would be the 16" tire.

So if you like the 17" rims, the clearance and speedometer should be the same.

jaredmsd · February 2003

I am highly sceptical that anyone could nicely install X-REAS after the fact. There seems to be to many cross-links tubes/wires for it to be a possibility. Wait for an answer from steveb, cliffy, or toyotataken.. they seem to know the icky details the best, but I wouldn't bet that X-REAS can be installed outside of the factory.

-Jared

toyotaken · February 2003

I would think that it would be possible, although expensive to the tune of not financially feasable for most people. That being said, the system is based upon a special set of shocks and mechanical actuators with tubes linking shocks diagonally opposed. From diagrams I've seen, the tubing runs across the front of the 4Runner with the mechanical actuator along side the frame-rail about halfway back. So you'd have to find someone to install the shocks, tubing, actuators, and secure all of them. It very well may be impossible to do without tearing apart much of the undercarriage.

So I guess that I would say that it isn't impossible, just not very feasable.

Hope this helps.

Ken

onyeiii · February 2003

I have towed my boat once so far with my V8 2003 4runner sport. The boat weighs about 2500 lbs. empty, so include trailer, gear, etc. we're probably up to 3000 lbs. Results: after I got used to seeing that big old thing in the rear-view mirror it was easy to forget it was there, and I had to watch myself to keep the speed in a safe range (found my self cruising at 80). The load was pretty much inivisble until hitting the gas pumps (again, and again, and again) got an average of about 11 mpg while towing, 350 mile drive. OH yeah - STRONG headwind that day. IIRC Toyota recommends brakes for any trailer over 1000 lbs.

onyeiii · February 2003

I have had good luck with weathertech mats - I think they have mats sized for the '03 4runners now. Find them at www.mats.com.

mrwhipple · February 2003

www.weathertech.com

cinlin · February 2003

HELLO
I AM CURRENTLY IN THE MARKET FOR THE LIMITED 4RUNNER 2003...I HAVE BEEN TO THE DEALER 2X'S TO DRIVE IT....WHILE WAITING IN THE SHOWROOM, I OVERHEARD ALL THE NEGOTIATIONS GOING ON...I HATE THAT PART..I FOUND THE SALESPEOPLE NOT BUDGING MUCH AND HIGH PRESSURE. I READ THE INTERNET BUYING VS SHOWROOM..HOW MUCH DID SOMEONE PAY FOR THE LIMITED AND THE SPORT, I NEED A FIGURE SO I KNOW WHERE I MIGHT STAND BEFORE I START THIS NEGOTIATING AND TO SEE IF IT IS FEASABLE OR NOT. I REALLY DIDN'T WANT THE 2002 MODEL...I ALMOST WOULD BE WILLING TO WAIT ANOTHER HALF A YEAR IF I HAVE TO...PLEASE HELP ME. I HAVE BEEN WANTING ONE FOR TWO YEARS..I WANT TO FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH MY NEW DEBT....

bigorange30 · February 2003

stever · February 2003

Check the True Market Value, and maybe try some internet car shopping.

(And all caps are hard to read, ergo the yelling comment)

Steve, Host

sdeame · February 2003

I am looking for a Limited 4 Runner 2003 and I am wondering how others have done for price.

Thanks for the help

cinlin · February 2003

I AM IN MASSACHUSETTS TOO....I WANT TO KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION ALSO....I HAVE SHOPPED IN NORWOOD, MA.....I DON'T CARE FOR THE SALESPERSON, AND I DON'T WANT TO PAY OVER...I HAVEN'T EVEN DISCUSSED PRICING WITH THEM YET FOR FEAR OF A MISTAKE...I AM LOOKING FOR PRICING ON A V6...I WILL TRY TO QUOTE THEM ON LINE AND LET U KNOW...

sopecreek · February 2003

Please turn your Caps Lock OFF. It's considered yelling in case you may not know already. If you keep writing it that way, I must think you are too lazy to capitalize selectively (in which case I prefer you use no capitalization at all) or your Caps Lock key is stuck (get a new keyboard.)

vodgut · February 2003

I've done my internet car shopping to find the 2003 Limited 4x4 V8 in Pacific Blue that I want. After doing a dealer trade at the port (apparently there's only one of these destined for this 6 state region in this upcoming allocation), looks like it should be in late this month or early next. Definitely looking forward to it.

I found better prices online than I did at dealerships themselves after talking price. Saved about $450 between discount in price and having no doc fees.

Toyota 4Runner

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