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To me it looks like the original RX300 in size and body style, except the grill. It would seem to fit those who didn't like the growth in the Gen2 Highlander. But it has a few interesting characteristics that neither of the HLs have had. The 2.7L is a surprise to me. I wonder if it't the Taco engine dropped in here or if it's a new development of the 2AZ used everywhere else as the 2.4L.
Avalon platform
19" and 20" wheels. Hmmmm
6 spd sequential transmission. Hmmmm
Normal options and goodies. No hybrid version ( blah ).
Suspension/Handling?
It appears to be a 'sporty' version of the outgoing Highlander. With the right suspension it might be a hoot to drive. But it seems directed to empty-nesters and young families. I hear that 75,000 units is the first full year goal.
Mack
link title
Looks nice (nicer than Highlander definitely), although 19- and 20-inch rims seem a bit much on a people mover.
Seems like it could make decent mileage with the 4-cyl engine, although on the Avalon platform it must be fairly large - hopefully they have kept the weight down?
4-cylinder Tacoma XtraCabs are peppy to drive in town, because the engine is big enough to have very good torque, even if it is 4-cylinder. I would imagine Venza might weigh about the same (3400ish pounds).
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Highlander Height: 69.3 (68.1 for Base model only, w/o roof rails)
The press-release says the 2.7L is all new, so I think it is doubtful that it is the 2.7L from the Taco, which I wouldn't call particularly efficient or powerful (which are the words mentioned in the press-release). That engine - in Tacoma form - also only meets LEV-II requirements, not the much more stringent ULEV-II requirements, and I find it difficult that Toyota would intro the Venza w/o at least hitting ULEV-II if not PZEV.
Sweet looking wagon.
:shades:
Camry:
Is it an actual hatchback, or is there a rear deck behind those back seats?
As for the 2.7, the current 2.4 makes 160+ lb-ft, so I would think it is not a stretch to imagine that the 2.7 will make at least 180 lb-ft, same as the engine in the Taco. It might be slightly reduced if they have to tack on more downstream stuff to reduce smog emissions.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I noticed that it has a (light-duty, but rated nonetheless) 3500# tow rating (with V6), which is a plus.. even if you never tow, at least you know the mechanicals were engineered with an extra margin of duty in mind. And even better, that killer sunroof (very important to me).
Since they are giving the impression of "sporty" handling, I hope it's true. At nearly 190" long, and well into the 60's tall, it's still a bit bulkier than I'd like. Maybe they will offer an "SE" or a model with handling package and possibly lower ride height, like the Camry.
I don't think there's anything wrong with a Camry-based wagon, as long as it's offered with a better handling package than a typical LE with the marshmallow, pillow-top bed ride that tips around curves. But this "crossover" still seems aimed at SUV buyers looking for increased ground clearance; still a bit on the tall side, rather than those looking for sportier, more fuel efficient alternatives.
Come on Toyota/Lexus: Where are our (U.S.) sporty wagons? Even in limited numbers, it's not like ALL Americans want the same thing (SUV's, Sedans, and bigger is better?) and there are buyers.
-mike
The Venza seems like it will be just another (improved, however) modernized version of the same formula as so many other models available: Soft, tall, heavy (mid-size) SUV with lux features, and perhaps only the smallest concern for better fuel efficiency or enthusiastic "feeling". I hope and looking forward to being proved wrong!
I'm hoping that they bring back the LGT wagon in the next generation but we shall see.
-mike
From some normally reliable technical sources there it appears that this 'all-new' 2.7L I4 may be the eventual successor to the current 2.4L 2AZ I4 which is in everything!
If it is all new it would likely be the 1AR 2.7L with dual VVT-i getting hp ratings of 180-190 without Valvematic and maybe over 200 with Valvematic at some time soon.
Fuel Economy? Well if one were to go by the other 'R' engines it would be the same or even better than the outgoing 2.4L 2AZ. Now there's a neat trick.
1ZR 1.8L in the xD and Corolla
1GR 4.0L in the 4R, FJ, Taco and Tundra
2GR 3.5L in everything larger than a Corolla and smaller than a 4Runner
3UR 5.7L in the Tundra, Sequoia and LC
All are tops in their class in power and efficiency. This is a nice prospect for the new Venza.
Mack :shades:
Mack
If I never hear another vehicle described as "perfect for active lifestyles" or having "the surprising utility of an SUV in a (sedan/crossover/younameit)", it will be too soon.
Toyota also describes it as emphasizing comfort, luxury, and performance (in various places throughout the press release). Knowing Toyota as I do, why do I think it will slide well over towards the comfort/luxury end of that spectrum?! ;-)
And with its standard feature set, I am not expecting it to come in much below the base price of the Highlander. So I am thinking maybe $25K base, with the 4-cylinder engine and FWD?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Again, I'm hoping Toyota will prove me wrong. :P
Also, I am guessing $25K for openers because the price of the Camry LE itself is around $22K, and it looks like the Venza will have more standard features (and the added utility of the 5-door vs 4-door configuration).
And I am talking sticker, not "what it will be discounted to". I would imagine that after the opening months, and once Toyota starts to build base models in decent numbers, we will see base Venzas discounted to $22-23K.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
-mike
Mack
-mike
As a host here I hope you're joking, mike. Hint: I bought my first Camry in 1989 at a $1000 discount off MSRp when Honda wanted a 'Market Adjustment Surcharge' on its Accord on top of MSRP.
I've never paid anywhere near full sticker for any of my 8 Toyotas including a 2003 MR2, 2004 Highlander, 2005 Prius or 2007 Solara Convertiblle.
One of the reasons that Toyota has been so successful in the marketplace is that it's all about volume and moving metal. They will do whatever is necessary. Being on the sales end of it now it's not such a great situation but it does 'Pump up the Volume'.
Quick summary:
Every one of the following vehicles today is sold at invoice or lower...Corolla, Matrix, Camry, Solara, Tacoma, Tundra, 4Runner, old Sequoia, FJ.
Everyone of these vehicles has little or no markup so they are essentially selling at invoice anyway...Yaris, Scion xD, xB, tC.
If a person is serious about buying a Prius or Hybrid Highlander or Hybrid Camry they will be slightly above invoice.
Essentially there is no 'retail markup' in any Toyota being sold today. With a few exceptions like the Prius for the first 3 yrs and the Hybrids initially and the FJ initially no Toyota over the last 10 yrs is anything other than a 'unit' going out the door. Internet sales pressures driven by Toyota are making this the new marketing trend.
-mike
Just to be clear, Mike is not posting as a host in this discussion but rather as a member/contributor - looks like he forgot to make that clear.
-mike
Mack
For example, when you could get a top-of-the-line Navigator for under invoice, you couldn't buy a base MINI Cooper at sticker. If the Venza is an in-demand vehicle then nope, there's no reasonable discussion about regularly getting deals for at or near invoice. Unless you're talking about an overall lousy brand, the average actual selling price for one vehicle in a manufacturer's line-up has nothing to do with the average selling price of their other vehicles.
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But to provide you some infor for your son...your absolutely right...he will not find all 3 at this time, so he needs to rank his priorities and then find what fits those lowered priorities.
As an FYI he will not find anything at 34 mpg that will be as roomy as he would like. He most likely would have to settle for less MPG. My research has indicated you have to stay below 135hp to get anything over 30mpg. Sure there are a few cars with more horses, but only a small handful.
A good case in point look at the Scion XB. Had good size and MPG, but they increased the horses and the MPG dropped to 28 highway. I think they should have skipped the camry engine and inserted the matrix engine. Otherwise it's the ford focus wagon that allows hauling and great MPG, but ford has cancelled the wagon model.
Good Luck and also the federal MPG guide can come in handy in finding what cars get you where in the MPG battle
:shades: