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2009 Toyota Venza Crossover

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Comments

  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    thanks for the headsup mccoy1986, assuming that you still have your job ;) .

    To me it looks like the original RX300 in size and body style, except the grill. It would seem to fit those who didn't like the growth in the Gen2 Highlander. But it has a few interesting characteristics that neither of the HLs have had. The 2.7L is a surprise to me. I wonder if it't the Taco engine dropped in here or if it's a new development of the 2AZ used everywhere else as the 2.4L.

    Avalon platform
    19" and 20" wheels. Hmmmm
    6 spd sequential transmission. Hmmmm

    Normal options and goodies. No hybrid version ( blah ).
    Suspension/Handling?

    It appears to be a 'sporty' version of the outgoing Highlander. With the right suspension it might be a hoot to drive. But it seems directed to empty-nesters and young families. I hear that 75,000 units is the first full year goal.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Like the Mark Zio that I posted a few months back. I also said the front would be different and some of the back. The 2.7l will probably be the one in the Tacoma, who knows. I don't believe for one minute what Toyota said about this vehicle being developed and designed in the US looks very Japanese to me. :) Looks like another homerun for Toyota. Finally a Camry wagon.
    Mackimage

    image

    image

    link title
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    that its roof will be lower than the Highlander's?

    Looks nice (nicer than Highlander definitely), although 19- and 20-inch rims seem a bit much on a people mover.

    Seems like it could make decent mileage with the 4-cyl engine, although on the Avalon platform it must be fairly large - hopefully they have kept the weight down?

    4-cylinder Tacoma XtraCabs are peppy to drive in town, because the engine is big enough to have very good torque, even if it is 4-cylinder. I would imagine Venza might weigh about the same (3400ish pounds).

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Venza Height: 63.4
    Highlander Height: 69.3 (68.1 for Base model only, w/o roof rails)

    The press-release says the 2.7L is all new, so I think it is doubtful that it is the 2.7L from the Taco, which I wouldn't call particularly efficient or powerful (which are the words mentioned in the press-release). That engine - in Tacoma form - also only meets LEV-II requirements, not the much more stringent ULEV-II requirements, and I find it difficult that Toyota would intro the Venza w/o at least hitting ULEV-II if not PZEV.
  • rcf8000rcf8000 Member Posts: 619
    I think the Venza looks great, and they'll sell a lot of them, especially if they offer all of the features of an Avalon on it. However, this trend to larger and larger wheels has got to stop soon, doesn't it?
  • subahondasubahonda Member Posts: 75
    Hmmm - Looks like Mr. Toyoda took a Chrysler Pacifica for a test drive to Kentucky. The "Pacific" part of the name takes on a new meaning,
  • rcf8000rcf8000 Member Posts: 619
    How convenient that Toyota brings out the Venza just as Chrysler stops making the Pacifica! I'll bet that the Venza sells a lot better than the Pacifica.
  • roho1roho1 Member Posts: 318
    The Pacifica was a much larger gas guzzler. The Venza will only do well if the fuel economy is good of which we don't know anything yet.
  • toycashtoycash Member Posts: 139
    I would imagine the economy would be about the same as the Highlander, if not slightly better, since it's the same engine, probably less weight, and a six speed tranny. Of course, the 4-cyl. should be even better. It can't be the Tacoma engine if it's all-new, and that's a truck motor anyway. Toyota doesn't mix front and rear drive engines very much.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Looking at the pics of the interior this is a Camry wagon all the way. The seats are identical to the ones in the Camry. Take a look:

    image

    image

    Sweet looking wagon.
    :shades:

    Camry:
    image
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    looks so much more appealing to me (in so many ways) than the Highlander. Thanks, alpha, for the roof height numbers. So the roof is about 5 inches lower. Should do wonders for handling improvement/top-heaviness reduction.

    Is it an actual hatchback, or is there a rear deck behind those back seats?

    As for the 2.7, the current 2.4 makes 160+ lb-ft, so I would think it is not a stretch to imagine that the 2.7 will make at least 180 lb-ft, same as the engine in the Taco. It might be slightly reduced if they have to tack on more downstream stuff to reduce smog emissions.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Go to the pressroom, there's plenty of pics there. link title
  • la4meadla4mead Member Posts: 347
    Very appealing at first look, indeed. Thanks Macabee for the link with lots of specifics. It looks so much like the RX, I wonder how closely related it is.

    I noticed that it has a (light-duty, but rated nonetheless) 3500# tow rating (with V6), which is a plus.. even if you never tow, at least you know the mechanicals were engineered with an extra margin of duty in mind. And even better, that killer sunroof (very important to me).

    Since they are giving the impression of "sporty" handling, I hope it's true. At nearly 190" long, and well into the 60's tall, it's still a bit bulkier than I'd like. Maybe they will offer an "SE" or a model with handling package and possibly lower ride height, like the Camry. ;)

    I don't think there's anything wrong with a Camry-based wagon, as long as it's offered with a better handling package than a typical LE with the marshmallow, pillow-top bed ride that tips around curves. But this "crossover" still seems aimed at SUV buyers looking for increased ground clearance; still a bit on the tall side, rather than those looking for sportier, more fuel efficient alternatives.

    Come on Toyota/Lexus: Where are our (U.S.) sporty wagons? Even in limited numbers, it's not like ALL Americans want the same thing (SUV's, Sedans, and bigger is better?) and there are buyers.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    They had a sporty wagon, the IS300, however it didn't sell well. Subaru dropped the LGT Wagon due to lack of sales.... :(

    -mike
  • wc1wc1 Member Posts: 11
    If I can come to grips with that hideous-looking console/shifter AND if this is priced less than an equally equipped Highlander AND if it gets better mileage than the Highlander, this Venza is sitting in my driveway this fall! This car looks like a squatted Lexus RX and looks to be a better package than the 2009 Murano. I was a Highlander person all the way but the Venza at least has a speedometer in the CENTER of the cluster and it has factory satellite radio, so it tops the Highlander on my list.
  • la4meadla4mead Member Posts: 347
    It's true the IS (tiny inside and only automatics) and the very fun Legacy GT (and I also hear the Mazda 6) "wagon" bodys were dropped or didn't make the redesign for US and that it was attributed to "lack" of sales. However, it's more like they can make more $ off sedans and SUVs here. I mean, it's not like Lexus or Subaru didn't sell every one made, or lost any money on them, and they still have a following.

    The Venza seems like it will be just another (improved, however) modernized version of the same formula as so many other models available: Soft, tall, heavy (mid-size) SUV with lux features, and perhaps only the smallest concern for better fuel efficiency or enthusiastic "feeling". I hope and looking forward to being proved wrong! :D
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Yup I have an 05 LGT Wagon with 5MT and it's a blast. I regularly track it here in the northeast and I love to see the looks on folks faces when they get past by a WAGON :)

    I'm hoping that they bring back the LGT wagon in the next generation but we shall see.

    -mike
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    ...over on TN.

    From some normally reliable technical sources there it appears that this 'all-new' 2.7L I4 may be the eventual successor to the current 2.4L 2AZ I4 which is in everything!

    If it is all new it would likely be the 1AR 2.7L with dual VVT-i getting hp ratings of 180-190 without Valvematic and maybe over 200 with Valvematic at some time soon.

    Fuel Economy? Well if one were to go by the other 'R' engines it would be the same or even better than the outgoing 2.4L 2AZ. Now there's a neat trick.

    1ZR 1.8L in the xD and Corolla
    1GR 4.0L in the 4R, FJ, Taco and Tundra
    2GR 3.5L in everything larger than a Corolla and smaller than a 4Runner
    3UR 5.7L in the Tundra, Sequoia and LC

    All are tops in their class in power and efficiency. This is a nice prospect for the new Venza.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    I think it's rather cool looking. It is built on the Camry/Avalon platform so I expect a Camry/Avalon like ride but with a tighter suspension like on the SE Camry. It should be lots of fun. Can't wait to see them in person.
    Mack :shades:
  • rcf8000rcf8000 Member Posts: 619
    It will be interesting to see what ride quality Toyota can achieve with the 20 inch wheels.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Should be pretty good. The Highlander rides on 19's and the Tundra on 20's as does the Sequoia Platinum. Nice comfy ride.
    Mack
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    The Toyota press release says it is yet another vehicle targeted at the "active lifestyle" crowd.

    If I never hear another vehicle described as "perfect for active lifestyles" or having "the surprising utility of an SUV in a (sedan/crossover/younameit)", it will be too soon.

    Toyota also describes it as emphasizing comfort, luxury, and performance (in various places throughout the press release). Knowing Toyota as I do, why do I think it will slide well over towards the comfort/luxury end of that spectrum?! ;-)

    And with its standard feature set, I am not expecting it to come in much below the base price of the Highlander. So I am thinking maybe $25K base, with the 4-cylinder engine and FWD?

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • la4meadla4mead Member Posts: 347
    I'll go one further while we are speculating after reading that press release... I bet to get that nice big sunroof and the other handy "available with" equipment, you'll have to get the V6... and the price tag will inflate closer to $40,000, even without a nav package.

    Again, I'm hoping Toyota will prove me wrong. :P
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Yes I agree that the Base 4c should start around $25K but I'd be surprised if the loaded up V6 was much higher than $37K. I'm thinking Avalon price range.
  • roho1roho1 Member Posts: 318
    Whoa, this is a Camry wagon, why is all the speculation so high? There's no way I'd buy a 37-40K Camry. They may as well call it the Lexus Venza then.
  • rcf8000rcf8000 Member Posts: 619
    You can option up an Avalon to $40,000, so there's no reason to believe that people won't pay that for a Venza. I would.
  • gpoltgpolt Member Posts: 113
    I see base Highlander FWDs discounted to $26,000 everywhere and that includes alloy wheels and the 3.5 V6 standard. Why would one pay the same price for a 4 cylinder?
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Have you DRIVEN a Highlander? That might answer your question right there, assuming the Venza is more sporty as Toyota claims. I would think that 19" and 20" rims and a lower roof would go a long way in the right direction (away from cumbersome and top-heavy, a la Highlander) for starters.

    Also, I am guessing $25K for openers because the price of the Camry LE itself is around $22K, and it looks like the Venza will have more standard features (and the added utility of the 5-door vs 4-door configuration).

    And I am talking sticker, not "what it will be discounted to". I would imagine that after the opening months, and once Toyota starts to build base models in decent numbers, we will see base Venzas discounted to $22-23K.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Toyota discounts cars these days? Up until a few years ago Toyota didn't have deals on their cars. Not a good sign for them in my opinion.

    -mike
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Have you looked at TMV for a Camry lately?
    Mack
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Toyota discounts cars these days? Up until a few years ago Toyota didn't have deals on their cars. Not a good sign for them in my opinion.

    -mike


    As a host here I hope you're joking, mike. Hint: I bought my first Camry in 1989 at a $1000 discount off MSRp when Honda wanted a 'Market Adjustment Surcharge' on its Accord on top of MSRP.

    I've never paid anywhere near full sticker for any of my 8 Toyotas including a 2003 MR2, 2004 Highlander, 2005 Prius or 2007 Solara Convertiblle.

    One of the reasons that Toyota has been so successful in the marketplace is that it's all about volume and moving metal. They will do whatever is necessary. Being on the sales end of it now it's not such a great situation but it does 'Pump up the Volume'.

    Quick summary:

    Every one of the following vehicles today is sold at invoice or lower...Corolla, Matrix, Camry, Solara, Tacoma, Tundra, 4Runner, old Sequoia, FJ.

    Everyone of these vehicles has little or no markup so they are essentially selling at invoice anyway...Yaris, Scion xD, xB, tC.

    If a person is serious about buying a Prius or Hybrid Highlander or Hybrid Camry they will be slightly above invoice.

    Essentially there is no 'retail markup' in any Toyota being sold today. With a few exceptions like the Prius for the first 3 yrs and the Hybrids initially and the FJ initially no Toyota over the last 10 yrs is anything other than a 'unit' going out the door. Internet sales pressures driven by Toyota are making this the new marketing trend.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Guess I haven't followed it or in my area they don't discount em. Here in the NY/NJ area they don't discount the Toyotas much, if at all and the financing rates never dip either. I was suprised to see the "new" tundra being advertised with low financing rates late last year.

    -mike
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    As a host here I hope you're joking, mike.

    Just to be clear, Mike is not posting as a host in this discussion but rather as a member/contributor - looks like he forgot to make that clear. :)
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Yup if you look at the top you'll see who the host is for any particular discussion :)

    -mike
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Yep, I remember paying full pop for my first Toyota, a 1981 Celica I bought at Frank Toyota in National City Ca. I was 23 years old and didn't know you could negotiate on cars or anything else for that matter. I learned my lesson well since about a year later I bought a copy of Remar Sutton's "Don't get taken, The insider's guide to buying your next car" This little book cost me a whole 1 dollar and saved me a few thousand more when I put in practice what I learned. After that all the new Toys I bought were close to invoice.
    Mack
  • prazpraz Member Posts: 163
    People are buying Lexus for invoice and is this discussion whether we can buy Toyota for invoice or close to it??????????????
  • sallen10sallen10 Member Posts: 30
    Anyone attending the Detroit Auto show, please ask for any idea as to the MPG estimates (2008 version please). Any thoughts? My son keeps asking for a somewhat roomy (he is 6'4", 230lb), with roof rack to load his roof top sail boat from time time, and 34+ mpg car while he is in college. I keep telling him he can't have all three. The Matrix is not roomy for his body. The Rav is close but not there on MPG. The Element is lax. The CRV doesn't do it. The Venza has possibilities, but I sill stick my neck out on MPG and guess the average to be low 20's for the 6 and maybe only a little better for the thirsty 4. Help!
  • wc1wc1 Member Posts: 11
    Well, the V6 should be better than the Highlander, which is 18/24. I'm guessing 19/26 on the Venza with the same engine. The 4-cyl. will be worse than the Camry is now, which is 21/31. I would have to say 20/29 for the 4-cyl. Venza.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,146
    Yeah, but luxury vs non-luxury has nothing to do with whether you can get a vehicle at invoice or have to pay MSRP. It's all about what's in demand.

    For example, when you could get a top-of-the-line Navigator for under invoice, you couldn't buy a base MINI Cooper at sticker. If the Venza is an in-demand vehicle then nope, there's no reasonable discussion about regularly getting deals for at or near invoice. Unless you're talking about an overall lousy brand, the average actual selling price for one vehicle in a manufacturer's line-up has nothing to do with the average selling price of their other vehicles.

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  • ecotrklvrecotrklvr Member Posts: 519
    I'm in the same boat as your son - 6'4" and 250 lbs. I want pretty much the same things he does, and righ now I'm getting by with a 4-cylinder Highlander. Those are no longer available. But the new 2009 Matrix, which has a tilt & telescopic steering wheel for the first time, is due out on Feb 15th. I have great hopes for that to fit me, and get the better mileage I'm looking for. Wish my Highlander had a telescopic wheel!
  • prazpraz Member Posts: 163
    I agree with you but I was comparing toyota with luxury toyota. What I have read in lexus forum is that people are buying IS, ES and RX for invoice or less which are nothing but Corolla (in size), Camry and Highlander. I have not shopped for toyota so I am not sure if they sell close to MSRP. By the way, ES sold 84K units and RX 102K last year which are top sellers in their class.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Depends on the region of the country. Here in my town there's only one Lexus dealer and the other is across the water and owned by the same man. I know a couple of the guys that work there and they rarely if ever discount a Lexus. I know it costs them sales since there is another Lexus dealer about 90 minutes away and they will discount it to make a sale. :shades:
  • roho1roho1 Member Posts: 318
    That's nice but let's get back to the question why buy a Venza over a Highlander? I thought initially the Venza would be smaller than the 08HL but not so. Since the size is basically the same(WB, L, & W) except for a lower height what are the differences? Pro's-Cons?
  • rcf8000rcf8000 Member Posts: 619
    The Venza presumably will get better gas mileage than a Highlander and have better handling, due to the lower height and probably lower weight. Maybe it will be quieter, too. Some may like the styling better. I do.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    For people that don't need the third row seat but want some utility with a sporting drive. That's nice. :P Remember this is being called a crossover sports sedan/cuv. Lots of people now consider the 08 Highlander as too much of a mini van.
  • wstevecwstevec Member Posts: 126
    As someone who thinking of going into a small suv or crossover, I am most impressed with the Venza which I happened to come across by accident. As a current sedan owner (BMW 3 Series), I am looking for a more comfortable and roomy ride as well as ease of getting my golf clubs in and out of the trunk. Although I am not buying until the end of the year, I have been beating my brain trying to figure out what do get next. So far on my list is the BMW X3 (costly), Hyundia Santa Fe (just not me), Redesigned Murano (still strange looking) or perhaps the planned Lexus small SUV (anyone hear anything???) or redesigned RAV 4. Since my wife's RAV4 has a similar V6 as the Venza, I am hopping that it will also take regular (87 octane) which is a big plus.
  • hawkeyfanhawkeyfan Member Posts: 1
    I recently hit the Venza news from another website and am looking for more Venza info myself.

    But to provide you some infor for your son...your absolutely right...he will not find all 3 at this time, so he needs to rank his priorities and then find what fits those lowered priorities.

    As an FYI he will not find anything at 34 mpg that will be as roomy as he would like. He most likely would have to settle for less MPG. My research has indicated you have to stay below 135hp to get anything over 30mpg. Sure there are a few cars with more horses, but only a small handful.

    A good case in point look at the Scion XB. Had good size and MPG, but they increased the horses and the MPG dropped to 28 highway. I think they should have skipped the camry engine and inserted the matrix engine. Otherwise it's the ford focus wagon that allows hauling and great MPG, but ford has cancelled the wagon model.

    Good Luck and also the federal MPG guide can come in handy in finding what cars get you where in the MPG battle
  • irismgirismg Member Posts: 345
    I like it! It has a lot of the style and utility that I, as a woman, appreciated about the Chrysler Pacifica, but hopefully it will better gas mileage. Chrysler is discontinuing Pacifica after 2008 - I think there's a market for it. And I must say, the dash is sweet!
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    All Toyota V6 engines take 87 octane or higher. Premium is only recommended for better performance.
    :shades:
  • rcf8000rcf8000 Member Posts: 619
    Another reason to buy a Venza over a Highlander is cost. I think it can reasonably be assumed that a 4 cylinder Venza will be less expensive than a Highlander. And if the Venza 4 cylinder has 190 hp, as has been reported, it won't be a slug. I'll bet it outsells the 6 cylinder Venza by 2:1 or more.
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