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Comments
To improve fuel economy, OEMs are selecting tires that are designed to reduce rolling resistance (read: friction with the road). As such, what might work fine at a warmer ambient temp can have more issues below freezing. It is also possible that the tires on that test vehicle were so new they weren't broken in yet, or still had mold release or what not on them, hampering their performance.
I would be surprised if Toyota spec'd their vehicle with a 3 season tire or one that preformed significantly below competition in snow.
The size of the tire and wheel is a "bling" factor but doesn't have a direct input on the cold weather handling of the vehicle.
1. Very noisy: wind & especially road noise from the 20" tires.
2. Handling: worse than the Avalon; which isn't a particularly good handling car to start with. Lots of body lean & dumb feel steering.
3. performance: V6 dequate but not quite up to the Avalon. same motor, heavier car.
4. Quality: The usual excellent Toyota quality, interior layout and appointments.
Hope this helps.
Oh, but it does, a higher profile tire, taller sidewalls, say on a 17" wheel, will have much better longitudinal conformance with the roadbed.
1. Very noisy: wind & especially road noise from the 20" tires.
2. Handling: worse than the Avalon; which isn't a particularly good handling car to start with. Lots of body lean & dumb feel steering.
3. performance: V6 dequate but not quite up to the Avalon. same motor, heavier car.
4. Quality: The usual excellent Toyota quality, interior layout and appointments.
Yes the Venza is NOT the best choice for those coming from an Avalon. The two driving experiences are very very different. The Venza is intended for those dropping down from a 4Runner or Sequoia but don't want a sedan.
The ride is stiffer and noisier and sportier than what a typical Avalon owner would expect. That's intentional.
The engine is far far more powerful than the prior Avlaon. If you're coming out of an early 2000's Avy then you've got the 3.0L V6 with about 190 hp. This 3.5L has 268 hp and a 6 speed tranny. Smoothness not rocket power is the goal in the Venza.
Handling wise you are correct in that it doesn't handle like a sedan.
I have not yet driven a Venza, and maybe my question would be quickly answered if I did. But several of you have mentioned lack-luster performance. Doesn't Toyota advertise 0-60 in something less than 7 or 8 seconds? Those are pretty neck-snapping numbers. Comments please.
mikeecfp
I would not knock the Venza until you test drive. If your looking for performance you may want a sports car. I test drove two and like it very much. It is a very practicle vehicle if you do more than just drive around. You can use it like an SUV. It may not drive like a car but its a smooth ride.
Also, what is the likelihood Honda would introduce this in the U.S. in the next 12 months?
Mikeecfp
Links:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/honda_acura_centr- al/2010_honda_accord_cuv_spied
http://www.leftlanenews.com/honda-accord-crossover.html
I am more concerned about the snow performance comments, and the 20 inch tires. I live in snow country, and winter traction is a must. And, I am interested in fuel efficiency.
The above URL for the Honda CUV is a must see. But it will all depend on the details. I have owned both a Toyota and a Honda, and both are exceptional vehicles.
Today I had to punch it to keep from getting sodomized by a DWHUA soccer mom in a Nissan van. Traffic was slowing for an upcoming red light; I saw this twit about 200 feet behind me, with her head down (on a cell phone, naturally), and she was NOT braking. I had an opening in the adjoining lane, punched it to keep from getting hit by the other vehicle just off my right rear, and jumped over. The other driver saw it coming and was cool about it.
The non-driving... female... was oblivious to the whole thing. Talk about give the world for a photon torpedo launcher...
Point is, the Venza responded immediately and crisply, with no hesitation. A street racer, it ain't; but I've got about 300 miles on the clock now, and the response is definitely up to what I was expecting. Dunno, maybe it was just sluggish at first.
Road noise depends on the surface. I was on new, sharp concrete Sunday, and it was TERRIBLE. On smooth asphalt or polished (worn) concrete, nice and refined.
Wind noise is negligible.
I LOVE this ride. The sound system is primo; and I'm one who used to NEVER listen to anything while driving except for an occasional DVD. The satellite radio jazz stations have re-birthed my interest in cruising tunes. Naturally, I hear that Sirius XM has declared bankruptcy... :-(
The keyless entry/start is just too cool. And the voice command system for the nav and BlueTooth, while a bit cumbersome, works without a hitch.
This car has nooks and crannies to stash stuff EVERYWHERE. The center console interior is huge, and is actually two separate compartments.
I did not want a full-blown SUV; yet, I need more space than your average sedan, to haul my radio control model aircraft. I was about to get a VW Passat station wagon when I saw a Venza.
I am very glad I bought this car. It is quite nimble for being so boxy; and the ergonomics/accoutrements are first class.
But I STILL think it needs the six cylinder.
YMMV...
.
I just can't see myself in an SUV - and yes the Venza is a form of SUV lite (or CUV - or as I like to call it, a Camry Wagon on steroids). The creature comforts and "car" like handling are also plusses over the Rav-4...
I guess doing the Venza with a I4 is my way to offset the some of the "footprint".
Please clarify.
Mikeecfp
The Venza is currently available with a V6. The 4-cylinder model will be hitting dealers soon.
Rather than name Names I'll let you-all research who that might be!!
I may VENture over to drive it - decision time is nearing!
I stopped by the local Toyota dealer to pick up some oil filters for my Highlander Hybrid. I noticed a red 4 cylinder Venza on the front lot along with the V6 model. I took a quick look and like it better than the V6. The alloy wheels are more tasteful (IMO) compared to the 5 spoke 'gansta' wheels on the V6. Also the interior trim is a very good looking carbon fiber type unlike that phony looking 'wood' and the cloth seat trim is quite nice looking too. It was the base model with only floor mats and no other options. Since I'm not in the market for a new vehicle (my 2007 Highlander Hybrid only has 19K miles) I didn't test drive it.
I'm sure those that have purchased a V6 Venza are very pleased with their vehicle and now that the I4 is arriving at dealers, it will give those considering a Venza another choice.
Regards -
M. J. McCloskey
My local Toyota dealer may be some time in getting a 4 cyl. They have only received 2 V6's, and neither has sold. As those of you (in more populated places) drive a 4 cyl, I would love to know your impressions. I am especially interested in noise. Does the 4 cyl protest loudly when merging into traffic? Also, does there seem to be less insulation?
I had thought the 4 and the 6 cyl. would have identical options (save and except the 19 and 20 inch wheels).
All of your recent comments, as well as Consumer Reports, has causing me to think a little more favorable about the Venza. Now, Toyota must cooperate a bit and be willing to deal. I can wait them out.
Follow the new - Toyota - Venza - Consumer Report
The April issue is their "Best & Worst 2009 Cars" It is a comprehensive report that covers every aspect of the auto industry. Honda, Subary, Toyota, Mazda, Mercedes-Benz, Nisson, Volkswagen, BMW, Hyundai, Volvo, Mitsubishi are all rated (in that order) before the first domestic company, Ford. See Automakers report card (page 15).
Some of the options are integrated. For example, if you want leather, you order the Leather Package, Comfort Package, Premium Package #1, or Premium Package #2. All 4 of these come with the fake wood trim ("satin mahogany wood-grain-style" trim in Toyota parlance). Thus, if you want leather, you'll automatically get the fake wood trim. Conversely, if you want cloth, you'll automatically get the "carbon fiber-style" trim.
I've driven the V6 and like it a lot, although the power was less than I expected. I'm looking forward to the I4. The I4 is EPA-rated 2 MPG better in the city and 3 MPG better on the highway, than the V6 in both the FWD and AWD drivetrain configurations. We prospective buyers will have to determine for ourselves whether the power/mileage "trade-off" is worth it.
Second .. IMO there is no need for the V6 :surprise:
As noted above the options are essentially the same. The key difference is so minor as to be inconsequential IMO. At start up the sound is an I4 sound. At cruising speeds at 70 mph it's dead silent. The 6 speed tranny is very very well designed to the I4. I used it in standard 'D' mode and Sequential mode. Both were smooth and flawless.
With the 19" wheels it didn't feel as stiff and bouncy as the 20"-ers on the V6.
I don't see much of a need for the V6 for the type of cruising driving that I might do. It would be dead silent and responsive at 80 mph as well as 70 mph.
I think that I actually like the 'chocolate' carbon fiber interior accents more than the 'plood'.
Thanks again for your most appreciated input.
Regards -
M. J. McCloskey
See, I currently own a 4-cylinder '07 Highlander. Yes, the engine is more coarse than the then-optional 3.3L. But I can cruise at 85 mph with no problem. Climbs any hill I've ever tried. At 70 mph there's no engine noise anyway. And when it happens that I do hear the engine, and I notice, and I care about it, here's what I do. I just think about the fact that someone is paying me to ignore it. That someone is ... me. It adds up to $1000 or maybe even $2500 over the time I have this vehicle. I earn it, and I get it, buy making a choice about what I buy.
I kinda like the fact that it reduces the amount of poison I pour into our world as well.
We too will drive a 4 and compare to the 6 and then pull the trigger next weekend with luck. I gotta say, I still love on-ramps with our 850 Turbo Volvo Wagon. But the trip computer on the 850 over the past 3000 miles has AVERGE speed at 18.8 MPH!! I gotta be realistic here and think about how this auto is REALLY going to be driven vs. the occasional on-ramp I might encounter. This is to be the family car, mostly moving the kiddo from point A to point B and back again - MY 4 cyl Toyota Tacoma handles that job OK -
But, the SIX is SO nice!!
Oh the dilemma!!
Rattles: I have at least two: one in the dash (driver's side) and one coming from the passenger side cargo area. The one in the driver's side door seems to have gone away. I'm a little disappointed with the rattles; however, my 05 4Runner also required multiple trips to the dealer to resolve rattles when I purchased it, so I'm not attributing this to the Venza being a 1st year model or because of the plant it was built at.
Steering: The "numbness" is really apparent when turning the wheel while stopped or at low speeds. It reminds me of my parent's old Oldsmobile, where you could turn the wheel with your pinky. However, at speed, there's much more firmness and feel.
Fuel Economy: My first tank of gas worked out to around 17.8 MPG.
Technology: My favorites: Smart Key, backup camera, and power hatch. All three have proven extremely useful. I feel a lot more confident backing into parking stalls (still got to be careful, of course). Least useful (so far): Automatic high-beams. Haven't used them at all (HID low-beams are more than bright enough).
iPod Holder: While I wish I had a native iPod connection, putting the iPod (with the regular click-wheel, not the touch or iPhone) in the holder provides relatively easy access to the click wheel for moving between songs.
Standing Out: I have yet to see another Venza on the road. Toyota's advertising is working, though. I'm getting fewer blank stares when asked what I'm driving and a lot more, "I saw your car on TV last night."
We're in the same dilemma as a few of you seem to be --- the 4 cyl. vs. 6 cyl. I test drove a 4 cyl. and it seemed fine (did not go on the highway, as it was rush hour here in ATL) I am leaning towards the 6 cyl. though, for many of the same reasons mentioned above --- acceleration, smooth ride, not a huge MPG difference (it seems); handling.
It's similar to the Highlander's multi-function display. I haven't seen the new RX's non-nav camera display that's shown in the rear-view mirror. That is the same way other manufacturers are doing the rear-camera-without-nav. To me, that has more of an "after-market" look.
It makes sense, but..... :confuse:
.
Has Toyota changed their paint since 2001? My 01 Highlander still has a beautiful shine, but the paint appears to be very thin, and scratches very, very easy.
I have really enjoyed the recent, very informative, post. Keep the driving impressions coming.
The car is heavy so when the frost starts to exit our gravel drive we will use the lighter Outback to cut down on the ruts and the need to rake the gravel back into place. Then there was a rattle somewhere in the back but it went away with the somewhat warmer Northern Wisconsin March temperatures.
As I said, we really like the car and recommend it to anyone. It does draw comments, especially from the guys.
Santa
Modern automotive paint is applied and baked on at really high temperatures to cure. It is also usually water-based paint, which is considered to be more environmentally friendly (if you remember all the Chryslers and GM vehicles in the 80s with paint peeling off, its because they were trying to switch to waterbased paints, once they perfected the process, other brands started doing it).
If you require paintwork on your vehicle due to an collision or similar, that paint cannont be cured the same way (as the assembled car can't take the same heat as the bare painted shell), so you buddy's advice is right on in those situations.
Wax is for glamour, not protection.
Mr_Shiftright, "Teflon Paint Sealants Revisited" #7, 10 Jul 2003 10:33 am
I opened my passenger door (with the Smart Key) and the interior lights turned on. I think it's kind of cool that the interior lights turn on as soon as I'm in the Smart Key's radius. I also noticed that the Smart Key itself has a subtle red light that acknowledges when you've pressed a button.
...not having a RAV4 type sun visor...
Noticed this yesterday too. My 2001 Highlander had a built-in sliding extension and my 2005 4Runner could extend out (the whole visor could move) and had a little mini-visor behind the main one. Not a big deal, I guess. On the other hand, the Venza's headliner seems a little more plush than the 4Runner and the 08+ Highlander.
I could have sworn that there was a Toyota press release that stated the Venza came with visors with extensions. Similarly, some of the early media reviews noted that Hill Start Assist was standard. Neither visors with extensions nor Hill Start Assist are listed on Toyota's Venza website, so I guess we didn't get short-changed.
...the trip odometer is not separate...
Has anyone noticed that the odometer itself is slightly crooked? Mine looks tilted and it looks like that in photos (i.e. on eBay auction listings for the Venza) too.
As to the "wax is for glamour, not protection" comment... you, sir, obviously do not live in a bug-infested area. Maintaining a coat of wax means cleaning all the bug strikes off is easier. Some of these critters-especially those miserable love bugs- have acidic elements in their make-up which will EAT paint if left on there.
The sportier shape is a plus as well.
The cloth seats are much more comfortable for me (tall, big, and wide guy). The addition of tele to the tilt on the steering wheel is a major plus for me. More legroom, front and back. Engine quiet at idle. Big 55 series tires give better steering response. Venza seems wider, and heavier. Engine smooth, stays smooth. Much smoother above 3500 RPM, and even higher. Trans is really nice - part-throttle upshifts are quick and keep the revs low, below 2700. Good downshift response. Didn't try the manual shift mode, but nice to know that it's there. Going down the road, there's much less side-to-side rocking than the softer-sprung (and softer-tired) Highlander. It feels wider, more "planted". Effortless cruising at 65 mph. A little more push gets it to 75, and 80.
One thing - more road noise at 75 mph than Highlander! Probably the the 55 series tires, and they are Bridgestone Dueler H/L's, a known noisy tire. I had upgraded the Highlander to Michelin Cross Terrains 2 years ago and am spoiled. Pretty low-end tire, the Bridgestone - UTQG only 400 BB. Tire Rack shows no other options, and these go for $172 apiece. America's Tires has zip. Toyo makes an Open Country H/T 640 AB - it's speed Rated S. May have to wait until a good tire becomes available for this pretty new tire size.
Overall, a much better execution of the same basic ride that I already have. Smoother, quieter, more comfortable. And better looking. Still need to gut check this one to see if I feel like I want to spend nearly $30k for it. I haven't found anything else I like nearly as much.
Anyone tried the Toyo Open Country H/T tire?