Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan Hybrid

bigt · October 2009

I wonder why Ford does not make a hybrid version of the Lincoln MKZ. You see all of the advertisements for the Lexus HS hybrid. I was curious about it and found it was around 34-36k base however...

The Lexus HS 250h's power delivery didn't impress us as much as the level of cabin tech. The HS features four drive modes: a normal mode that accelerates with about the same gusto as a Toyota Prius, an ECO mode that decreases throttle inputs and climate control systems for more thrifty driving, a Power mode that is the opposite of ECO mode, and an EV mode that moves the vehicle under purely electric power up to 20 mph..

While we can forgive the lackluster handing, the regenerative brakes had us clenching at each stop. It's difficult to tell when the regeneration/friction switch is going to occur, which made modulating the brakes difficult.

Ford has that beat for sure.

full review here: http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13746_7-10249567-48.html

akirby · October 2009

Simple - they're selling all of the hybrid Fulans they can make right now and nobody has established that there is a market for luxury hybrids. It's a tiny market with questionable returns and Ford's money is better spent elsewhere. If the segment picks up they can easily get a hybrid MKZ model out the door quickly.

cary28 · October 2009

You know, I was thinking of the same thing when I was researching Hybrid options. I didn't buy a hybrid because of ecological reasons, even though I do want to contribute to a greener earth. I just wanted a nice sedan which drives like a normal car, and can save gas when it goes back up to $4/gal. Perhaps I belong to a minority group when it comes to hybrid owners, but I didn't care for the highest mileage at all cost. I value creature comfort, drivability, high tech toys which are useful, TCO, and the overall look and feel of the car, and was willing to pay a little premium for that.

I was even looking to transplant the HID lights from the MKZ to the FFH, but it was just not worth the cost and trouble. I would also liked to have memory seats, not to mention the luxury interior appointment of the MKZ. I looked at the Lexus, but thought the price was not justifiable for what amounted to a Camry Hybrid with a Lexus badge and plush interior.

dmathews3 · October 2009

That is a ll a MKZ and most Lincolns are just Fords with plush interiors and a couple extra toys.

bigt · October 2009

Oh I think there is a market for us. I also traded the MKZ in for the Milian HB. I miss several of the features but they are not a deal breaker. I recently have been sharing my Milian with my son and memory seats are really missed. Most of the other toys are there with Sync maybe it is the appointments and style of the MKZ that I miss however I am not willing to pay a Lexus HB premium and that is for sure.

BTW: There was some previous discussion about battery charge levels. I am also mystified on it. Here in DC this morning car was outside and iced up, got in turned on the front and rear defrost and drove off. About 1/2 mile later noticed my battery was almost at 100%. Go figure, other days even on the highway it is at 55% or so.

acdii · October 2009

LOL What do you think Lexus, Infinity, or Acura's are? Nothing more than gussied up Toyota, Nissan, or Honda's! :shades:

acdii · October 2009

this morning car was outside and iced up, got in turned on the front and rear defrost and drove off. About 1/2 mile later noticed my battery was almost at 100%.

When it is cold enough to ice up, its cold enough for the cars ICE to run at a longer interval to heat up the emissions systems. You will find this more and more as the winter sets in and the engine will be running more than you are used to. Since its running, less battery is used, and while idling charges the TB up so you will see a higher SOC on the pack in the winter. Once the entire emissions system is up to temp you will see the engine cycling less, and eventually will shut off at stops until SOC drops below a certain level. The heaters on the Hybrids are all electric(at least on Toyota, should be the same on Fusion), and run off the traction batteries. Of course this will affect gas mileage, so don't expect to get anywhere near EPA when it is cold out. The TCH is rated 33/34, my warm weather average was up around 37, but in the winter I saw frequent drops to 28 MPG depending on how cold it was. It is best to use the automatic climate control during the winter as it manages the power better.

akirby · October 2009

What do you think Lexus, Infinity, or Acura's are?

I think Infinitys are speakers.......... :P

bigt · October 2009

What is left of an infinity suv today that closed the GW Parkway in Dc for 5 hours. Driver coming from the club at 3:45 am going 100+ mph. Driver is in critical condition but his two passengers are dead.

:sick:

akirby · October 2009

Infiniti, not infinity. Infiniti makes vehicles. Infinity makes speakers.

dmathews3 · October 2009

I've only been going about 2 miles to work and it runs on gas the whole way until I pull into the parking lot and the battery is pegged at the top.

larsb · October 2009

That is typical of hybrids - the engine must warm up completely and properly before the hybrid system operates at full efficiency.

If most of your commutes are that short, you are going to have problems getting great MPG for that trip.

Maybe an engine block heater would help - I have heard of hybrid owners having success with this tactic.

dmathews3 · October 2009

The wife is to busy right now to deal with learning the ins and outs of the car so I'm driving it for a while till things calm down then she takes over. I'm spending my free time learning the ropes, programing my thumb drive to work with the USB and savings some CD's to the harddrive. When all the dirty work is done she will step in and take over. :mad:

bigt · October 2009

If all I had was a two-mile commute I would have gotten a bike!

Anyone heard anything about 2011 Milian Hybrids? Will there be one? If so what do you think will change?

acdii · October 2009

I don't know, but I would sure like to see Ford put one in the MKZ, and one up Lexus.

dmathews3 · October 2009

Since I'm retired and sub at this one school I need to be there fast and there is no way I'm riding a bike down that 4 lane road at rush hour for no one. Besides this time of year it could rain anytime and as sweet as I am I don't want to melt. :P

akirby · October 2009

Right - because those Lexus hybrids are SO successful. Let's see if there is a market before Ford tries to compete in it. Won't do any good to lose money winning a market that really doesn't exist yet.

hoyafan · October 2009

Does anybody know if it's possible to get a list of the top ranked cars according to the Edmunds consumer ratings? There would need to be a minimum number of reviews of course in order to do the comparison. My reason for asking is that I think the FFH would be very high on the list and I'm curious how it compares to other vehicles. It currently is rated a 9.5 with 79 reviews. Thinking about a few other vehicles with high satisfaction, I looked at Honda Accord, Toyota Camry, Toyota Prius, Porsche 911 - they are all lower.

In case anyone would like to see the consumer ratings for the FFH, they are here:

http://www.edmunds.com/ford/fusionhybrid/2010/consumerreview.html?tid=edmunds.n.- crrindex...1.Ford*

acdii · October 2009

Considering I went from a Camry Hybrid to a Fusion Sport, I can tell you the only thing keeping Camry sales up is consumers lack of confidence in Ford. There is a small percentage of brand loyal customers who would still buy Toyota even if it was a clunker. Side by side the Fusion is a much better car than the Camry.

acdii · October 2009

The Hybrids Lexus sold were high performance Hybrids, an Oxymoron when you think about it, but Lexus has introduced a new Hybrid model that is certain to sell well since its a true hybrid, like the Prius, but a luxury based version. All Ford would need to do is slap the Hybrid drive train into the MKZ, and since its the same platform as the Fusion and Milan, that would be a simple procedure for them, the only thing would be the dash design, as I believe the cluster is slightly different on the MKZ. Of course this would depend on how well the Lexus model sells, but if it sells well, Ford can EASILY counter with an MKZ Hybrid.

stevedebi · October 2009

"BTW: There was some previous discussion about battery charge levels. I am also mystified on it. Here in DC this morning car was outside and iced up, got in turned on the front and rear defrost and drove off. About 1/2 mile later noticed my battery was almost at 100%. Go figure, other days even on the highway it is at 55% or so. "

On my 2008 FEH, I do not have the NAV, and there is no display of the charge at all. I have a scanguage II that tells me the SOC. The normal range is about 53 SOC, but it varies from 40 to 60 optimally, and a maximum of 30 to 66 SOC. There is some kind of temporary "recalibration" that has been reported at somewhere around 15-18K miles, but I haven't seen that on mine at 17.5K; when this happens the actual SOC goes to around 80. Many people think that the computer is evaluating the capabilities of the batteries and adjusting the SOC percentages, but all anyone can state for certain is that this procedure does occur periodically.

It is hard to believe that Ford would be allowing the batteries to go that high as a percentage of the battery storage maximum.

Are you sure this is State Of Charge (SOC)? On some vehicles the cars show a percentage of the "usable range" rather than the actual percentage that the batteries are charged. So if the batteries are at 100%, that may mean that they are charged to 60% of their capacity. So your "normal" 50% may represent around 50 SOC, and the 100% you saw displayed may be around 60 SOC. If you get a scanguage II you could check the actual computer reported SOC.

I believe that Toyota does this by listing "bars" of power - the maximum bars do not represent that the batteries themselves are at maximum capacity, just at usable maximum capacity.

stevedebi · October 2009

"The heaters on the Hybrids are all electric(at least on Toyota, should be the same on Fusion), and run off the traction batteries."

Are you positive about that? The air conditioner compressors are electric, but that is very different from heaters. Electric heat is very inefficient when there is a very hot engine available to do the heating.

I believe that there is a battery heater, which is electric, but not the main vehicle heater.

akirby · October 2009

An electric cabin heater would drain the battery in just a few seconds. The ICE maintains enough heat to do the job.

akirby · October 2009

I agree the HS has a better chance than the other luxury hybrids because it goes for fuel efficiency over performance. However, I just read a review that said the Fusion hybrid was almost as nice and got way better mileage for $10K less. The only thing the HS had going for it was some of the interior materials (but not all of them). I'll see if I can find the review.

texases · October 2009

I agree, akirby - also, the HS styling is a negative, not a good looking car, while the Fusion is one of the better-looking cars in its class.

akirby · October 2009

Here is the article. It's only one person's opinion so take it with a grain of salt.

http://www.freep.com/article/20091015/BUSINESS02/910150473/1319/Lexus--HS-250h-s- trikes-out

acdii · October 2009

It would be a riot if the Fusion can outdo the "Lexus"! I had test driven a 2007 Lexus RX400h a few months ago when trying to decide the fate of the Camry Hybrid, I was getting very displeased with it, and didn't want to sink money into the car to make it more"fun" to drive. The handling was poor, it needed new tires, and it looked just like every other car on the road, ugly, and the interior was mediocre, I could place my hand on the front middle of each front seat, press down lightly and feel the springs, that combined with the road noise, wind noise and rattles after only 33K miles, it was time for "change". So back to the Lexus test drive.

The RX400h seemed like a nice vehicle, at least in looks it was. The seats were shiny leather, and I almost immediately started to sweat on my back and seat. The plastic material of the dash and doors was pretty good quality, a bit thicker than what I have in my Hyundai Veracruz, I give it a mark for that. Interior wise, I believe the Hyundai is just as nice. On the road test, it gained only 1 mark, it rode and handled nice, but the engine, for a hybrid, was noisy, and not a nice noisy, an I'm coming apart in every direction noisy. The stereo was horrible, it did not play MP3's, it did not have XM or Syrius, it did not have an auxiliary input, and the sound quality was so bad, that if a window was opened, you couldn't hear it. The MFD for the NAV and Hybrid screens was identical to what is in the Prius. Overall I was not impressed with it, and for the kind of money that these go for, I cant imagine they sell the way they do, I guess people like the "image" more than the actual vehicle. Side by side, even though it was a 2007, and the Veracruz was a 2008(but the 2007 VC is basically the same), the VC has so much more to offer and was to me a much nicer car.

Compare the Fusion to the Camry, and what a difference, the Fusion is so much better, so I can't imagine that the Lexus would be much better than the Fusion if it is at all better. My impression of Lexus, overpriced, overrated, overhyped, and just plain ordinary. IE a snob mobile.

Karen_S · October 2009

Here's your chance 2010 Fusion owners - http://www.fusion41.com

Eight 2010 Fusion owners from throughout the country will be selected to participate in the Fusion 41 program. They will be chosen based on their passion for Fusion and their ability to share compelling information about the vehicle on the Internet. Applicants must have a current Facebook profile with a minimum of 100 friends and an active photo collection.

Each of the eight Fusion owners will then choose four friends or family members to join their team, and each team will be given a 2010 Ford Fusion or Fusion Hybrid to drive in an automotive relay race. To complete the relay, each team member must fulfill an assigned task within 41 hours, tracking competitive variables such as miles driven, stops made or the number of passengers picked up.

The winning team will be chosen based on their ability to complete the activities and provide proof by uploading photos and videos to various social media sites, including Facebook.

The Fusion owner of the winning team will have their vehicle paid off, and team members will win free gas for one year.

acdii · October 2009

Oh man, I don't have that many friends!!! GRRRR

Sounds like a great plan.

bigt · October 2009

Things may finally be looking up for Ford.

"Ford is definitely doing something right," said Rik Paul, the magazine's automotive editor.

At Ford, though, four-cylinder versions of the Fusion and Milan finished second in the family car category, beaten only by Toyota's Prius gas-electric hybrid. The Fusion and Milan outscored Toyota Motor Corp.'s Camry and Honda Motor Co.'s Accord, the two top-selling cars in the U.S. "which many people view as the paradigms of reliability," Paul said.

http://wtop.com/?sid=1795940&nid=111

PF_Flyer · October 2009

Things certainly seem to be looking up for Ford, but not if the UAW has anything to say about it...

Glory Daze

acdii · October 2009

I can believe it. I had a 2009 Camry Hybrid, and man was that thing slapped together poorly. Wind noise on the drivers side, sunroof sticks, rattles in the dash, 33,000 miles and the seats were showing signs of wear. Yeah, Toyota isn't all its made up to be, the Fusion Sport I now own is built so much better. Its quiet, it rides nice, it handles great, its comfortable, and it doesn't look as if it got punched in the nose.

akirby · October 2009

I have a lot to say about this, but this isn't the right forum so I'll bite my fingers.

akirby · October 2009

Simple - the UAW rank and file do not want to give Ford equal footing with their competitors which is key to Ford getting back in the black.

PF_Flyer · October 2009

Before this spins away from the Fusion completely, here's a link to the UAW discussion over on the Automotive News board

United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)

And your comments on the blog entry are always welcome as well.

PF_Flyer · October 2009

If you have a question about how the boards are run or any question for the hosts, please feel free to click on my username and drop me an email. That's the proper place for those kind of issues and I (and any other host) will be glad to hear from you. Let's leave these discussions for the cars and issues around them, thanks!

timothyf · November 2009

Hi I have a FFH with remote start. Does any one know how to program the remote start/car so that when you turn the car on; the electric driver's seat heater goes on as well? Right now if you turn the car off with the regular heater and seat heater going, when the remote start turns the car on again, only the regular heater turns on. Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks.

acdii · November 2009

I dont think you can, I have yet to see a car that will turn the seat heater back on after you shut the car off since it is controlled by the switch and not the climate control.

hayley2 · December 2009

Checking with my local Mercury Dealer about a month ago, he confirmed that Splash Guards were now available for the 2010 Milan Hybrid. I ordered a set of 4 ($75.00) and $75.00 to install. I was somewhat disapointed in that they are small and do not extend down more than approximately 2" but are made of a durable stiff rubber so some kind. The rear flaps have the word "Milan" while the front are plain. I was assured that they would do the job for what they are intended. Just a heads up for anyome that has been checking availbility.

waffh · December 2009

If the switch is a "mechanical" switch (like in my 2002 Buick Regal GS), it will come on when power is applied to it (as in turning on the ignition). An "electronic" switch, as in the Fusion Hybrid, even when the iginition is turned on, still has to be physically switched "on".

Sure wish that the Fusion had a "mechanical" switch so I could leave it "on" and the seats would be warm when using Remote Start.

hoyafan · February 2010

Do you think Fusion Hybrid sales will pick-up even further given the Prius brake issues (and Toyota issues in general)?

acdii · February 2010

I Highly doubt it. A lot of buyers of the Prius aren't looking for a car like the Fusion, and think the Prius is a better car. You can also get a Prius for a lot less than the Ford. What people tend to do, and I see it a lot on these forums and others, is compare a compact size Prius with a mid size Sedan, they are not the same in size passenger wise, the only thing that is putting the Prius in the mid size class is the fact it has more "trunk" space. I did a comparison between the Prius, Camry and Fusion, the Prius is about 3" on average smaller in most measurements to the Fusion, the Camry has about 1" more than the Fusion. The true comparison between two Hybrids, and which is the market Ford is going after, is the Camry. Now if the question is, will the Fusion Hybrid take away Camry Hybrid sales, the answer is absolutely!

texases · February 2010

I wonder if there are many more FFHs to go around. I thought there was a battery-based limit on the total.

oregongal · February 2010

My lifetime gm also reset arount 5k miles. Now it is lower then is was since my winter driving mileage has decreased quite a bit. BTW, has others heard about the braking software glitch on the FH? They are coming out with a fix soon, its on ones built before Oct.

larsb · February 2010

Uh-Oh

Fusion/Milan Hybrid brake problems

acdii · February 2010

But Ford is coming right out and doing something about it before it becomes a problem, unlike Toyota. Also keep in mind, this is on a First year model car, the Prius, even though a geniii, can be considered a revamp of the genii, much the same as the current Fusion Sport, its the same car, but different engine and transmission, and some restyling. The Fusion Hybrid however is an entire new driveline that has not been used in any other car. The entire system is new, the Prius is pretty much the same as it was last year, but with a bigger ICE, and some new programming. Toyota pretty much covered up a problem, Ford is not, they are coming out and doing something about it. Of course had the toyotas not been an issue, it might have been a totally different story.

larsb · February 2010

acdii says, "But Ford is coming right out and doing something about it before it becomes a problem, unlike Toyota"

Don't think it's out of the kindness of their hearts.

They see the flak 'Yota is taking and want to avoid it themselves.

That's the ONLY reason. Don't think it's because they care about the owners. They care about not getting SUED by the owners.

Corporations don't have feelings. They have bottom lines.

akirby · February 2010

Slight difference here folks. The Ford problem only affects brake "feel", not brake performance.

dmathews3 · February 2010

Right on, the brakes still work but feel funny where as the Prius's brakes don't work at all for about a second which I read can increase the stopping distance by 90 feet or more depending on speed. I don't know about you but I can think of a number of times where I stopped with just a foot or so to spare. 90 feet would have cost me plenty and could cost you your life.

larsb · February 2010

The Prius problem is merely a software issue, can be fixed easily.

It mostly happens when the tires lose contact with the ground during a hard stop, like a pothole.

Not many potholes on highways, so this problem will mostly happen at lower speeds.

That's why there are only 4 reported accidents attributed to the problem.

Ford's solution will likely be similarly easy.

Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan Hybrid

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