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Since they're no longer producing the cladding-equipped models and don't currently make the color-matched trim pieces in white, it looks like they won't be producing any more in white of any 4Runner model.
Alternatively, they could start producing the trim pieces in white and make the color available for any or all models. Can't see a reason why not.
So if you want a limited you may have to do choose another color or (maybe) wait. If an SR5 (but not sport) model will work for you, you can probably get a pretty good deal on a white one with gray cladding right now. Seems that dealers are wanting to clear out the ones with the cladding.
I've seen a number of the "no cladding" (appearance package AP) units around here, but they're still very much the minority. I've wondered if some dealers are keeping the ones with the appearance package out of prominent view to avoid making the cladding-equipped ones harder to sell.
Personally, I've always wondered about the point of having a 2wd SUV, too....but then again I've never owned a 2wd car or truck, it's been all Subarus, Audi, and Toyotas...
As far as the door locks on a 2002, I have no idea. With the redesign for 2003, I really don't know if they'll work the same way at all. The best thing would probably be to consult your owners manual. I've never been in a '02 myself. Last time I drove one of the 3rd Generation 4Runners was when I test drove a '97.
-J
Are you sure about the statement that they will not be producing any cladding-equipped models? For one, they still show it as standard on a SR5 base model on Toyota.com.
And secondly, and most importantly, would Toyota do this and risk a customer relations hit with regards to the people that have already purchased these models? Granted, we knew we were getting a lower price for doing so. But I don't think many people would have purchased a style that was to be obsolete within a year (thus a major re-sale value hit). And my guess is that maybe people at dealerships knew, but didn't tell, which makes things worse. This seems like a bad move on Toyota's part.
Sorry to keep bringing it up, but...come on. Thanks.
I won't attempt to read the mind of the factory or Toyota Motor Sales, but I don't think it's speculating much to assume that Toyota is not overjoyed about how this whole launch has gone, and some of the problems haven't been their doing. They can't turn their strategy and their inventory and their production processes on a dime, and so they've had some challenges in responding to market/taste conditions that were different than their assumptions during development and intro planning.
I haven't been tracking prices, but I heard that the new generation 4Runners are priced about the same as the previous generation, despite being larger, more powerful, and better equipped in terms of both driveline and interior features. Aside from the occasional problem with bad smells from the V8 models, they've received great reviews.
But I'll bet Toyota was not really expecting the generally poor reaction to the stronger cladding statement, and not expecting the price cutting (rebates and discounting) on the parts of competitors, mostly domestic. Around here right now, you can buy the entry model Explorer (XLS) for about $6000-7000 less than the entry model (SR5) 4Runner. Alternatively, for the same dollars as the SR5, you can buy an Eddie Bauer Explorer or even an Eddie Bauer Expedition. Yeah, they're apples and oranges to some degree, but these are big dollar differences and they influence the market.
So Toyota has taken incremental steps to address the situation as they see it, and sometimes such incremental steps (while a benefit to prospective buyers) don't feel to fair to previous buyers because the whole situation didn't turn out as they had planned and they couldn't maintain their original structure.
It's hard to predict the resale situation--it could be that cladding will be more in style then, or that the cladding will keep them better looking in the world of parking lots and scratchy brush. I'm not betting that way, though.
As for what dealers knew, I've had salesmen lie to me "There is no appearance package, you're just confusing this with the limited versions and their painted cladding." I've also had salesmen be very up-front "If you don't like the gray cladding, there is an option coming that will look just like the limited." Good folks and bad folks in the business, as always, and the buyer must rely on themselves, with whatever incomplete information they can put together.
For prospective buyers like me, I think that discussion forums like this are the best resource we have.
Has anyone noticed how easy it is to scratch the bumper on the limited? It's almost like toyota didn't put much paint on them ! I have all kinds of marks already...some made by barely tapping something with it. The reason I bought the limited was because I hated the look of the cladding on the SR5...hope I don't regret the decision !
We'll see........did anyone here consider the HIghlander?
I have always wondered to myself why people buy 2WD truck-SUVs like 4Runner, but I have always answered myself that people just want the looks and are willing to pay extra in terms of purchase, running and maintenance costs to get them.
Now in the case of Highlander, OTOH, since it is just a light-duty vehicle good for snow and not for towing or offroad stuff, it is a lot easier to see why people would buy the FWD instead of the AWD.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I did consider the highlander...but it looks tooo much like a minivan (again tooo soft looking) . I like the rugged look of the 4 runner...and the convenience of the auto back glass.
I never understood why people here bought 4WD if they had no plans to use offroad! I thought THAT was silly ! Why pay extra & have the extra maint cost for something you will never use !?
Nippononly, why do you say the SUV is more costly to run & maintain than a minivan? Do you mean the 4wd or ALL SUVs ?
Corancher, your posts are informative. Thx. Although I think your 6000-7000k for a straight comparison is a bit high unless you are including financing (0% Ford vs ~4% Toyota). The invoice on both models is about 24k, and I know Ford will deal but I don't think 6-7k below invoice.
It seems to me that most people that buy 4Runners in the South come to belive the that 2WD is a solid vehicle and can make sense.
Sometimes reading a forum, people tend to think all 4Runners are 4WD. Now in states like Maine or Michigan probably 90% of 4Runners are 4WD.
It would be interesting to check the ads in Denver, where I know they are (were) advertising prices on both 4Runners and Explorers.
Now I don't mean to imply that these vehicles are really comparable. Quality and drivetrain sophistication are just two big difference. But it would explain why I see so many latest-generation Explorers driving around and so few 2003 4Runners.
So if you're in the market for a new or used 2WD, tell the seller that you really want a 4WD but might consider the 2WD if you get a big price break.
Steve, Host
I believe overall the Explorer outsells the 4Runner by about 4 to 1 or 5 to 1 (or am I mistaken?), however, around here (Denver) 4Runners seem much more common with respect to Explorers than maybe elsewhere. There's also an awfully high per-capita Subaru concentration here, too. One of the reasons I wanted the 4Runner over, say, the Explorer is that it wasn't the same vehicle everyone else was driving, though that does appear to be somewhat less of a distinction around here. The other advantages mentioned were also important (sophisticated driveline, reliability, etc.)
mrshenry2002, are you sure you coveted the 4Runner in the late 70's? The 4Runner wasn't introduced until 1984....see:
http://www.off-road.com/toyota/4runner/history.html
Gas definitely costs more - that point is driven home by the 4th gen Runner, which only gets mid to high teens combined vs mid 20s for the latest Sienna, as an example.
Maintenance often costs more - consider the difference in cost between a set of tires in the passenger sizes a minivan requires, vs a set of the enormous tires the Runner and other SUVs use.
I do understand what people mean about buying a more rugged vehicle though: if you buy a truck it will be tougher and last longer through road abuse and things like that.
As far as 2WD/4WD mix, Toyota has pledged to put a lot more 2Runners out there this time than it did with previous generations, which I think is because they are aiming much more for the "soccer parent" crowd with the 4th gen (no intent to malign anyone there, no offense intended).
2nd and 3rd gens ran pretty heavily to 4WDs, with (I would guess from my own observations) at least a 75% mix of 4WDs. For the 4th gen, Toyota intends to only produce 45% 4WD.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
As you said Corancher, it does add to the decision making process when you can get a fully loaded Ltd Explore for the same price as a Sport 4R without upgraded audio, leather, etc....
With that being said, I'm still looking.....
As you said Corancher, it does add to the decision making process when you can get a fully loaded Ltd Explore for the same price as a Sport 4R without upgraded audio, leather, etc....
With that being said, I'm still looking.....
My impression is the 4Runner market is still the same. I would also expect the people up in Maine would still buy mostly 4WD. As far as the forth generation being a wimpmobile or selling higher in 2WD version, I think it still is mighty capable and I would suspect the ratio of 2WD vs. 4WD to be about the same.
Most people feel the 4Runner has to be 4WD and that is good for a lot of people. I would agree with "bmw323is" if you live in Denver get a 4WD. There are advandagtes to 4WD and I am sure both types of 4Runner owners enjoy their vehicle. I know I enjoy mine.
From what I can tell, ALL current generation 4runners have cladding: SR5's, SR5's with the Appearance package, Sports, and LTD's.
There are two types of cladding available from the factory: Original SR5's and Sports had the unpainted (gray) plastic cladding with the notches. SR5's with the Appearance package and LTD's have the smooth, color matched plastic cladding. All of the cladding (wheel arches) are plastic. Consequently, all of the cladding is subject to scratching when off-roading (or dealing with grocery carts et. al.). The difference is that the color matched cladding will show the scratches more than the unpainted cladding.
As far as whether or not the Appearance Package is now standard on SR5's may be more a regional thing. I was getting the oil changed on my Celica earlier this week and wandered the showroom while waiting. The SR5 they had on the showroom floor had the AP but it was not listed as on option on the spec sheet. I did find it listed under the "standard equipment" list tho. So, as far as the Gulfstates region, it appears as tho the AP is now standard on the SR5's.
Cliffy, if any of this is wrong, please set me straight.
By the way, folks, if you go to your local dealer and see mostly 2WDs, this could quite easily be because the 4WDs are flying off the lots, while the 2WDs just pile up. I do not know this to be the case, but I do remember that 2WDs from the 3rd gen would sit around dealer lots for quite a while as well.
What I do know is that Toyota, in its original press release for the 4th gen Runner, stated the mix of 2 and 4 wheelers would be 55/45.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=30&article- _id=6614&page_number=1
Kings_in_7, I don't know what the color matched cladding (and overfenders, etc.) are actually made of. The shape of the painted stuff is different than the gray plastic. It's rounder and doesn't have the facets over the wheel arches. I knocked on the painted version material with my knuckle briefly at a dealer lot and couldn't be sure.
As I think about it more, I don't care too much. I have the instinct to prefer metal, but why? I've got both metal and plastic painted pieces on my old Toyota now, and they still look the same after years and years. Actually, plastic would probably be better in the real world of parking lot dings, etc. I'll bet the actual cladding (the big pieces on the doors, not the overfenders) is plastic. And of course the bumper pieces are, though one poster has said they scratch easily.
The 2WD vs. 4WD issue is interesting. I'll bet the proportions stay about where they are (including regional variations) despite Toyota's wishes. Nonetheless I suspect they have a point in terms of practical use, especially with their enhanced systems. If you're not doing anything significant off-road and not too much on really slick roads and you aren't towing, 2WD makes a lot of sense. With the traction control and stability control, 2WD should do a very good job for a lot of people. Then you get the benefits of a simpler, cheaper system with better mileage.
But I'd probably never buy a 2WD 4Runner. Go figure. Well, actually there's no need to figure. I'd say that onlyagirl has got many of us (and herself, I guess) pretty well pegged.
http://pics.montypics.com/peter78/2002-12-13/reststop_in_newfound- land-041707.jpg
Well said! Who says everything has to be justified or for a reason? I feel if you want a SUV or sports car or whatever and you want to spend the money, then more power to you. At least you'll be happy! And who knows, once you get behind the wheel, you might suddenly become more adventuresome and start heading off-road/camping/exploring/etc.
On the other hand, if you wanted to buy a hummer h2 and commute to work everyday, that's stupid in any case, happiness only gets you so far!
-Jared
http://www.toyota.com/html/shop/vehicles/land_cruiser/history/lan- d_cruiser_history.html
Yeah, when shopping for my 4Runner around here in Denver, the dealer said they never get any 2WD's here. I imagine it's that way with a lot of vehicles. Guess I can see why in other regions 2WD may be the cheaper, more practical choice.
Ironically (and quite unfortunately,) someone hit my car last week in the right rear and I was expecting the worst. She took out the lower rear reflector and scratched the cladding pretty badly. But I took it into the dealer and had the reflector replaced and the cladding smoothed for $200 total. Her car was thrashed on the front and door panel, which were metal. So I think the cladding on my rig went in, and then popped back out with only scratches. For all my complaining, I think it saved me a much bigger repair bill. Oh well, maybe your're right about that corancher...
I drove a rental DC minivan up to Pike's Peak. Even floored, it was coughing, sputtering and doing about 10 mph max near the top. It was fine on the way down. They checked the brakes with IR and made me stop about 1/2 way down.
We had a business meeting in CO Springs about 1 1/2 years ago. One of my business associates from Bloomington, IN, got a job in CO Springs, and moved his family out there not too long afterwards. He fell in love with CO on his first trip.
Pike's Peak is 14,110 feet, so it's a little different. I've never actually driven that, only been up there on the cog wheel railway. I'll have to check into it and maybe do that this summer sometime. When Trail Ridge in Rocky Mountain National Park opens up for the summer (probably in a month or so, after they plow through the 20 feet of snow) I'll probably take it up there, too. That maxes out at about 12,300 feet or so.
I imagine with multivalve engines, they're going to breathe a bit better at altitude, and I'm betting that the DC minivan was a 2-valve/cylinder design.
I grew up here (since I was 2 and a half...). While I might consider moving at some point, the list of places I'd be willing to go instead of here is pretty short.
4Runner sales are way up in Canada, btw: link
Steve, Host
--------------------
As far as the hitch packer on the back of the 4Runner, yes it fit perfectly on the back. The bar did not hit the spare tire and the hitch packer is basically a 20" by 60" platform to carry stuff. When I took the ferry to Newfoundland it did not count as a trailer, so no extra cost. I got mine at Northern and is not the best of quality.
What a pleasure to drive!
-Eric
I wonder if your driver seat is also creaking? I had mine brought to the shop twice already but it is still doing it although it is much less than it used to. The service tech told me it will just go away. Does your Limited has X-REAS and air suspension? I wonder if you are not feeling any thuds (like from springs) down there randomly especially after you stop or when you release the brake pedal to move forward? It also happens to mine occasionally after I start the engine. I could not get a straight answer from the service department. Sorry to bother you, I just read that you have one similar to mine.
Thanks in advance!