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Photo Radar

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Comments

  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    So if everyone conformed to arbitrary limits established by the least accountable segment of society, we wouldn't need arbitrary limits?

    Maybe solution is to change all white speed limit signs to yellow (which means advisory)?
  • vchengvcheng Member Posts: 1,284
    There is hope still that not everybody is brain dead.

    from: http://www.wxvt.com/Global/story.asp?S=10278559&nav=menu1344_2

    Shreveport council pulls plug on red light cameras
    Associated Press - April 30, 2009 9:24 AM ET

    SHREVEPORT, La. (AP) - After nearly three years of discussion, the Shreveport City Council has voted 5-2 against putting red-light cameras at intersections.

    The proposed ordinance was first introduced in 2006.

    The proposal also would have made running red lights a civil infraction, rather than criminal. A private company would issue citations with some police review.

    Before the vote, council Chairman Ron Webb read a statement saying that the cameras could endanger liberty. He asked, "What keeps government from upgrading them to read our lips?"

    Information from: The Times, http://www.shreveporttimes.com

    Copyright 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    .
    council Chairman Ron Webb read a statement saying that the cameras could endanger liberty. He asked, "What keeps government from upgrading them to read our lips?"

    What a ridiculous, idiotic, paranoid statement.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,147
    >hreveport City Council has voted 5-2 against putting red-light cameras at intersections.

    At least there's one city that didn't fall for the "we make lots of money from citizens and we'll share a little bit with you" statement from the red light camera people.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • vchengvcheng Member Posts: 1,284
    Exactly. There is hope for us all yet.

    The democratic process may be slow, but it WILL work, and these scameras, which are the 21st century equivalent of highway robbery, will DIE.

    Of that I am sure, and nobody can shill that opinion away. :)
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    vcheng says, "which are the 21st century equivalent of highway robbery, will DIE. "

    Oh no they won't. They'll get better and more bulletproof.

    And you can't "rob" the willing.

    If you are willing to speed, you should be willing to pay your fine.
  • vchengvcheng Member Posts: 1,284
    Here is an editorial commeting on how the corrupt lure of money offered by robber barons such as Redflex and ATS that is leading our politicians down this path of stealing from the citizenry:

    Editorial: Red flag on red-light bill
    Palm Beach Post Editorial

    Thursday, April 30, 2009

    For months, cities in Florida have been citing safety, not revenue, to justify hanging cameras at intersections to catch red-light runners. But a bill that passed the House Monday puts an end to all that talk.

    When it comes to safety, the state wants its cut. House Bill 439 would give the state $60 of the $150 ticket. The rest would go to local governments. The bill got hung up Tuesday in the Senate because it wouldn't provide for paying the companies that install the cameras and collect the fines. The sponsor of the Senate version, Sen. Thad Altman, R-Melbourne, estimated that the contractor would get $40 to $70 per ticket.

    Whose pocket would it come out of? Not the Legislature's; it's setting the rules. At the same time, amendments in the Senate would give the state a bigger share of the take, up to half. A staff analysis says that $30 per ticket would produce more than $50 million a year.

    The state ensured itself a role by banning cities and counties from erecting cameras along state roads. To make the cash grab more palatable, the state would assign half of its take to health care. It's not unreasonable for the state to dictate uniformity in red-light citations, as it does for other moving violations, such as speeding. But the cash grab shows that revenue in a tough year really is the motivating factor.

    The cameras raise privacy concerns as an unnecessary increase of surveillance in public spaces. While designed to create safer intersections, they also have been criticized for causing accidents. Some drivers slam on the brakes to avoid a ticket and get rear-ended. Advocates call those collisions the price that must be paid from reducing the far more deadly mid-intersection crashes.

    The cameras are technology's answer to a cop on every corner. Their stealth enables them to catch drivers who otherwise would not be caught. Here, though, the state has been caught putting cash over safety.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    Of course someone who supports the surveillance grid would see it that way.

    You really should move to England, you'd love it there.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    Eventually they and the cronies who support them will need to be bulletproof, themselves.
  • vchengvcheng Member Posts: 1,284
    Bulletproof my [non-permissible content removed]. More on highway robbery disguised as safety, only this time the citizens fought back:

    from: http://www.businessreport.com/archives/daily-report/2009/mar/19/880/

    Livingston Parish dismisses nearly 2,500 tickets from speed van

    The Livingston Parish Sheriff's Office has ordered the contractor that operates the parish's speed van to dismiss 2,488 speeding tickets issued to drivers on Interstate 12, says Perry Rushing, chief operations officer for the sheriff's office.

    All of the tickets were issued in late January and early February near mile marker 15, Rushing said, where the speed limit drops from 70 mph to 60 mph. After receiving several complaints from ticketed drivers, the sheriff's office reviewed all of the tickets issued during the first nine days the van was in service and determined the van operator had set up too close to the speed-zone change.

    "There was some confusion out there," Rushing says, referring to the exact point at which the speed limit changes. Drivers who already paid their tickets will get refunds, he says.

    The parish's speed van is owned by Redflex Traffic Systems of Arizona, part of the Australian company Redflex Holdings. Redflex has photo enforcement contracts in more than 230 U.S. cities in 20 states.

    The Livingston Parish van began issuing tickets Jan. 26. A Redflex employee, not a law enforcement officer, operates the van. According to sheriff's office records, as of Sunday, the company issued 4,111 speeding tickets in Livingston Parish.—Chuck Hustmyre
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    I never said I support a "surveillance grid" at all.

    I said, and I am CORRECT, that certain types of surveillance are handy tools for law enforcement and do help bring bad guys to justice.

    Taking a snapshot of a speeder's face is far different than something that records video 24x7 for NO REASON.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Imagine in this space:

    Stories of the thousands of photo radar and red light cameras which are operating correctly and LEGALLY around the world.

    Never any stories about THAT.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    There shouldn't have to be. If those who implement these revenue generation tools made to fool the unwashed sheeple with ideals of safety were able to behave with any amount ethics and responsibility, there wouldn't be any cases of abuse, either. But, there are endless cases of abuse. Deal with it,.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    Who is to say what the camera is actually doing? Why should the least competent and trustworthy sector of society be trusted to operate within laws and standards?

    You want a camera on every corner. If someone makes a California stop at 6am at a sign that has no reason to be there, they "should pay for it". If they don't like it, they can complain to someone who was appointed by someone who was appointed by someone who was appointed by someone who was appointed by someone who was appointed by someone who is a friend of someone who was elected. The dissent will go far.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    fintail says, "there are endless cases of abuse"

    No, there are many times cases of MISTAKES being made.

    Like the one today, where the van was parked too close to the speed change location. Just a mistake.

    There is VERY LITTLE OVERT FRAUD going on. These people are accountable to the state agencies which they contract with.

    There is not a higher percentage of abuse in the photo radar/red light camera realm than there is in the regular business arena.

    There are bad apples in every bunch.

    Cases of obvious, intentional fraud are very rare when compared to the total number of people doing it the RIGHT way.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    Yeah, I am sure it was just a mistake, nothing crossed anyone's mind of an optimum position to enhance revenue collection. Right.

    Accoutnable to agencies which have very little accountability themselves? Why should this be a deterrent?

    Cameras make us safe! Keep monies flowing in so overpaid public sector workers can keep up their undeserved pensions and perks.
  • vchengvcheng Member Posts: 1,284
    If that's a "mistake" as the shills would have the sheeple believe, then I am CORRECT in saying that I am the Pope. :)
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Human-manned speed traps are illegal in most states too.

    But you sometimes see them happening, STILL, after all these years.

    Like I said - bad apples in every tree. That does not diminish the effect of all the GOOD apples in the tree.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Someone here might call these "red herrings" but they are just ANALOGIES which apply to the current conversation:

    would you stop going to the doctor or want to outlaw doctors forever if you found that your doctor was ripping off Medicare? No.

    would you stop buying cars if you found out that your car dealer was ripping off customers? No.

    would you stop buying food if you found out that your local grocer was overcharging for food? No.

    would we stop electing representatives to Congress if we found $75,000 payoff cash in one of their freezers? (we did) No.

    Would we stop electing Presidents if we found out one of them bugged the competition's offices? No.

    Just because something has an episode of fraud or five does not mean the whole process needs to be scrapped.

    So why would we shut down photo radar/red light cameras just because a FEW bureaucrats or Redflex operators made gaffes?

    Want advice on a 100% CERTAIN LEAD-PIPE LOCK way to make sure red light cameras and photo radar GO AWAY forever?

    Stop running red lights and stop speeding.

    Bottom Line:

    You don't shut down a whole industry just because some people in that industry are guilty of fraud or deception. If that were the case, this country would have died a LONG time ago.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,147
    >certain types of surveillance are handy tools for law enforcement and do help bring bad guys to justice.

    Odd. That's not the way it works. Real officers stopping cars that are running lights, speeding, driving erratically find many violations such as warrants, DUI, drugs, etc. Our local police won't use redlight cameras for just that reason. However they actually have cops doing cop work.

    Another agency nearby makes a fortune stopping people on a state highway feeding into Dayton. Lots of people stopped have - surprise! - drugs. Or they are DUI or they have warrants. The key is they actually police the area with real people in real cars looking for driver who aren't doing right.

    I feel much safer driving when I know there are actually policemen on the road, instead of sitting in a station or Dunkin Donuts having coffee because the camera is making folks "safe."

    I hear the red light cameras are causing global warming with all the energy they use.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    Their only "mistake" was getting caught...

    Every apple in the tree is rotten, it's infested with parasites.

    Blindly defer and conform to arbitrary regulations set by those who lack the knowledge and credentials to do a justifiable job at creating them, and who live in a vacuum of accountability that a 25 year tenure college professor could only dream of.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    imidazol97 says, "Odd. That's not the way it works."

    Not DIRECTLY on topic, but I'll address it anyway.

    Cameras inside stores DO have the potential to "make you safe" by assisting the police.

    If a felony crime is recorded, the bad guy leaves the store, then the images help find and convict him, then the streets are safer with him off them.

    Or would you rather not have ANY surveillance in businesses and let the bad guys do what they want with very little fear of being identified?

    So there are other cameras which are "indirectly" law enforcement tools which are not directly operated by the police and are not red light cams.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Society will not survive with a group of people thinking they can say, "Well, I disagree with THAT law, so I'm just gonna break it."

    Nor will there be a society if everyone just says, "Any and every law is just and must be obeyed."

    There must be a compromise, a middle ground.

    Is that hard to understand?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I haven't seen much in the way of photo radar posts this afternoon at all.

    (btw, I thought you two had decided to ignore each other? :P )

    "An unannounced flash mob of about 30 volunteers descended upon DPS headquarters today to express outrage over the department’s recent incendiary comments regarding opponents of automated ticketing.

    Never missing political opportunity in tragedy, Lieutenant James Warriner irresponsibly blamed “vocal critics” and “protests” as factors leading up to the violent murder of a Redflex photo radar van driver."

    CameraFRAUD
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    Now that you mention it, I heard today that my fair city is likely to put some photo "enforcement" at some locations in the near future.

    Could this be related to the city knocking a couple seconds off a left turn arrow at an intersection I go through many times per week? Encourage people to cut through by the skin of their teeth, in hopes a couple hundred bucks can be take here and there. Nah, our revered authorities would never do that ;)

    I've also noticed another light that randomly changes no matter the traffic volume...it's either broken or it is an intentional sequence to kill traffic flow. I bet that kind of thing can create revenue too.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    He was right in saying that.

    The "photo radar is the devil incarnate" attitude of the CAMERFRAUD people is what has inflamed passions. That is 100% correct.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Interesting comment on that page to the effect that photo radar has never survived a public vote.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    That's easy to understand.

    There's no group of organized law abiding citizens who take the time to defend it.

    The whiney speeders always come out in force.
  • tiff_ctiff_c Member Posts: 531
    Blindly defer and conform to arbitrary regulations set by those who lack the knowledge and credentials to do a justifiable job at creating them, and who live in a vacuum of accountability that a 25 year tenure college professor could only dream of.

    That's a great quote! I'm going to save it in my favorite quotes file.
    I use these various quotes on occaision so if you have a name you'd like me to attribute it to please let me know.
  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    Interesting comment on that page to the effect that photo radar has never survived a public vote.

    That's easy to understand.

    There's no group of organized law abiding citizens who take the time to defend it.

    The whiney speeders always come out in force.

    The most cherished way of deciding a law in our land is the vote and we thought he didn't understand what a violation of civil liberties was? I believe someone knows just what it is. Abolish the will of the people and life will be safer for us all?

    Were we invaded and I missed it? If photo radar is a viable law enforcement tool it should be put to a vote every time. Remember how we got the Miranda laws?
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    If photo radar is a viable law enforcement tool it should be put to a vote every time. Remember how we got the Miranda laws?

    Indirectly, it is put to vote. Don't the people elect the mayors and other leaders of cities, towns who then have authorities to invoke law enforcement tools? Maybe the anti-photo radar folks should organize like the greenies and similar groups and only support candidates in coming elections who are against photo radar.
  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    Yes, and the elected officials serve the people. So why go back door? Put it to a vote and see what happens. Unless we want minority rule? But you have a point, and that may be why some states have banned Photo Radar.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "The D.C. police department has spent nearly $74 million in overtime payments to have officers sit in cars monitoring the city’s “automated” photo radar guns, records show.

    The money spent represents almost four-fifths of the revenues earned from the tickets the radar guns are issuing, records obtained under the Freedom of Information Act show."

    ‘Automated’ radar racked up $74M in police OT (washingtonexaminer.com)
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    The D.C. police department has spent nearly $74 million in overtime payments to have officers sit in cars monitoring the city’s “automated” photo radar guns, records show.

    People in DC not very good at electing their leaders who then presumably appoint officials in police department. Didn't people reelect Mayor Berry "after" he spent time in jail for drug conviction?

    No reason that stand-alone photo radar cannot be checked and calibrated regularly whether daily, weekly, etc. Would think that with today's technology, a photo radar unit would be linked by telphone or data line (hard wire, wireless) to a central monitoring and control station that would continuously check functionality, settings, etc. DC police department inept. Betcha that the police authority in town of the Duke Boys would be smarter in using tech than DC.

    With proper maintenance and calibration, and leeway to give 11 mph to speeders, no reason why photo radar speed detection should not be used. If any driver cannot keep vehicle within 10 mph of the Limit, then the driver is inept and stupid and should have his/her license revoked.

    In Illinois, the Illinois Tollway system set up I-Pass years ago to allow paying of tolls by drivers/owners having transponders mounted on windsheilds of vehicles. Anyone going through these toll stations without a transponder has photos of their vehicle and license plate taken and a fine is then sent in mail. This has eliminated stopping at toll stations to deposit exact change in hopper lanes or at manned booth lanes. The I-Pass system no doubt eliminated many jobs of toll takers and probably a lot of overtime for these takers on busy weekends and holidays.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    This is a good representation of how people who enjoy obeying traffic laws feel about those who do these things mentioned in the column.

    You'll almost NEVER find some who is opposed to photo radar thinking like this fellow does:

    Drive Like a Grownup

    Phone booths are immobile, so your car isn’t one. Hang up and drive. Yes, even though you’re such a fabulous driver, even though you are so important. Don’t tailgate me on the highway. It makes me adhere to the posted speed limit. If I’m in the center lane flowing with traffic and you come up and try to pass me on the right, you’ll find I’ve moved into the right lane. It’s not my job to police your speed—please drive faster than I do, so the cops won’t see me—but pass me on the left.

    Don’t tailgate me on surface roads, or I’ll want to make a compleeeeeeeeeeete stop at each stop sign. If you don’t back off, I’ll take care to let people in ahead of me from side streets and parking lots, and you’ll have to wait. Time is precious for all of us alike.

    Rev your engine all you want, it’s your gas money and piston rings; I won’t menace or mow down pedestrians or block traffic to complete my left turn. I’m waiting behind pedestrians. You’re waiting behind me. We’ll all eventually get through, and the sun will rise in the East tomorrow.

    A yellow traffic light means “clear the intersection if you’re in it; don’t enter it if you can safely stop”. Not “you’ve waited long enough”, not “speed up and dash through”. Pay attention to what’s going on up ahead. I can almost always stop safely at a yellow, even in an old car with small drum brakes. If you let that upset you, it’s your blood pressure.

    If you want my lane in front of me, use your indicator and the space in front of me is yours as soon as I can safely cede it. Otherwise I don’t know what you want, and you’ll have a difficult time finding lane space in front of me.

    Synchronised traffic lights are wonderful. You sail along; lights turn green right in front of you. Trying to buck the system is dumb. By rabbiting away from a green, you’ll only get stopped by a red in exactly one block, and every block thereafter. I passed you long ago; I accelerated moderately to the speed limit at the first light and have caught every green since.

    You may notice my speed drifting down midblock. It’s humiliating to show off your prowess at vengeful overtaking only to have to show off your prowess at phone dropping, coffee spilling, and stopping short at the red light you suddenly see. It was about to turn yellow when I saw it.

    My vehicles are in excellent condition but sometimes develop intermittent problems that are a real [non-permissible content removed] to trace. When less than a second elapses between a light going green and a honk from behind, sometimes my vehicle stalls and won’t restart until after the light’s red. It’s in the ignition or fuel system or somewhere else; I won’t have any time to investigate for awhile, so it’ll be best if you don’t honk.

    If you’re riding a bicycle at night with no light or reflector, I can’t adequately see you with my low beams, so I will have to use my high beams. They’re very powerful, and you won’t like riding into the glare. Get a light and use it.

    I’m not impressed with your blue or “extra white” headlight bulbs or black light covers. Nobody else is, either. And your car’s brake lights were originally red and its turn signals were originally amber because those are the colours they’re supposed to be. They’re safety devices, not toys. We’re piloting one to two tons of steel down the road at high speed; let’s be grownups, wanna? On the other hand, if you like those windshield nozzles with an LED, please install them. These loser beams let me know you’re a dweeb not to be trusted to drive safely.

    If someone flashes you—headlamps, not trench coat—it’s not a challenge for a who’s-got-the-brightest-high-beams contest; keep your damn hand off the dipswitch. There’s something wrong with your lights or how you’re (mis)using them. Burned out bulb, misaimed lamp(s), high beams in traffic, daytime running lights instead of full lights after dark . . . maybe a cop ahead. Think.

    Your unnecessarily loud exhaust or stereo doesn’t make you a badazz, it just makes you an azz. If you are a bored white kid from the suburbs, I’m so sorry, but borrowing mom’s Camry, driving into town and playing gangsta rap at top volume won’t change that. You listen to your stuff in your car, and I’ll listen to mine in mine. If you just cannot live without a loud exhaust system, route the pipe into your passenger compartment, which will solve—amongst others— the problem of my having to hear it.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    I didn't know revving my tuned performance car damaged the piston rings. Oh yeah, it doesn't. Must be an old Buick driver.

    I do like the blaring stereo and light comments though.

    I can't see how a person who was conditioned to form thoughts and opinions of their own can find "enjoyment" in blindly obeying arbitrary laws imposed by the least accountable segment of society. But I can see how some who are also conditioned to be compliant sheeple in a regressive Orwellian new world order would enjoy that.
  • vinnynyvinnyny Member Posts: 764
    WOW! I hope I can grow up and be as cool as that guy one day!

    (It must really suck getting old enough to think that guy is funny).
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,147
    >Must be an old Buick driver.

    There we go again. Stereotyping Buick drivers. I'm trying to decide if the "old" describes "Buick" or "driver." But there are lots of "young" (or "younger") Buick drivers. :P

    Maybe getting used to old Toyota drivers as a phrase would work better. That's more what I'm finding in drivers who are inconsiderate or slower than normal.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    You know what they say, where there is smoke, there's fire. ;) I agree Toyota has been stealing Buick's flame in the slowpoke realm, and will continue to do so as the boomers age (roads are going to be much scarier in 25 years, if we are not in a completely thought controlled surveillance grid with all vehicle speeds 24/7 managed by a central planning grid with credentialed credible responsible public employees pushing all the buttons by then). However, Toyota taking over that ideal just means less customers for new Buicks (the only Buick driver I know within 10 years of my age drives an inherited 1994 model with a less than inspiring interior), which doesn't bode well for the survival of the brand on this continent.
  • vchengvcheng Member Posts: 1,284
    Here is a newspaper piece that should trigger some healthy debate in this fourm: :)

    from: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/5300462/Speed-res- tricted-car-a-review.html

    Speed-restricted car: a review
    They said the speed-curbing technology would make it impossible to get a ticket.

    By David Williams
    Last Updated: 7:54PM BST 10 May 2009

    What Transport for London did not warn me about, as I became the first journalist to test-drive the prototype car equipped with Intelligent Speed Adaptation, was the reaction of other drivers.

    My attempts to exceed the speed limit on a trial run in central London were, as predicted, futile.

    The Toyota Prius sprinted up to 30mph as I turned onto the Embankment by the former Labour party headquarters at Millbank and joined a fast-moving stream of traffic.

    I floored the throttle and the car whined noisily, to keep pace. But as I approached a speed camera and the speedometer jumped to 30mph, an eerie silence descended on the cabin.

    It was as though the car was being held back by an invisible hand. The engine stopped revving and other vehicles sailed past.

    Suddenly I was the lone adherent to the limit and no matter how hard I prodded the accelerator, the car refused to let me break the law.

    I was rewarded by the ISA screen's smiley face but a line of frustrated drivers behind, baffled by my stubborn compliance and bullying me to go faster by driving too close.

    It was intimidating but I resisted the impulse to hit the override button and join the headlong rush.

    As I continued towards Whitehall – surely the rule of law would apply here? – even a bus tooted at me; I was in his way and going too slowly.

    Statistics from TfL show that 58 per cent of people exceed the 30 speed limit, which must mean that 42 per cent obey it. But it felt a lot lonelier than this in the rush hour.

    I drove to Kennington, on the south side of the River Thames, where the council has installed 20mph zones to tame rat-run traffic.

    As we entered Fentiman Road the ISA screen – which had been showing 30 – blinked, flickered, and displayed 20.

    Again, that invisible hand embraced the car, slowing it to a speed more suited to this residential area dotted with pubs, gardens and schools. Who could fault the ISA's system's quiet, insistent logic here?

    And that's the point.

    Like most motorists I want to be law-abiding. Up until now I'd believed I was. But this clever car exposes such self-delusions. Normally I try to keep to 30mph in town but in reality I must have been doing nearer 40 as I never drive this slowly.

    Does ISA work? Yes.

    Will it catch on? That's far harder to answer.

    We all want traffic to slow down in our own road but it seems we want to speed along other people's – and certainly out in the countryside or along motorways.

    This experiment is less about the technology, more about whether the public will accept it. That is the real challenge.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    With modifications to account for what the photo radar systems allow (say, up to 10 mph over the limit without ticketing) this might be a good idea.

    An even better idea I thought about this weekend:

    A camera system in a car which recognizes STOP signs and FORCES the car to come to a COMPLETE STOP when approaching a STOP ( not called a "Slow Down and Roll Through Sign, but a STOP sign ) sign.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    That would mean the entire stop sign grid installed by our beloved public servants needs to be examined. It's already a travesty to sit and wait at unnecessary or unsequenced lights because city planners are too lazy and incompetent to do their jobs. And would bicycles also be equipped with such technology? Is it really a crime to slow down to 2mph instead of 0 at a sign in the middle of nowhere?
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    A very small percentage of stop signs exist in "the middle of nowhere."
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Stop signs are fuel wasters. That's one reason why you're seeing more roundabouts on the drawing boards. Either replace most of them with yield signs (that's what most people do anyway it seems) or take them down entirely (and watch the accident rate decrease).

    I think we've covered this ground before.

    An "adaptive" cruise control has some appeal I suppose. It also seems to be showing that the surface streets where it was tested were mostly signed with limits that are too slow.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    Is it really a crime to slow down to 2mph instead of 0 at a sign in the middle of nowhere?

    Yes. What the heck is so hard about coming to a complete stop and pause for at least a split second. Would some people claim that their time is so valuable that they want to justify breaking the law to save a few seconds in their "important" lives?

    Those who want to cruise through stop signs at 2 or 5 mph should petition US dot and State dots to suggest changing some stop signs to maybe another shape and using words SLOW 2MPH, or SLOW 5MPH.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    Wastes fuel, wastes time, slows traffic...accomplishes virtually nothing.

    But I am not surprised to see the mindset in the US, where so many are incapable of dealing with traffic circles or any kind of progressive traffic management.

    Breaking a law is not an evil in and of itself. Some laws and some lawmakers themselves deserve to be broken.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    What percentage? If you are going to act like you have data, you better be prepared to present it.

    But many do exist in locations where they cannot be justified. What about these?
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    My response is that you protest way too much.

    Unnecessary stop signs can be removed by going to your city council meeting.

    Believe me: When they were put there, it was a traffic engineer making the educated decision that safety or traffic flow required a stop sign there.

    No one EVER took a city map and randomly placed stop signs.
  • vchengvcheng Member Posts: 1,284
    Regardless of what my fellow forum members think about each item, think about all the potential uses of ISA technology:

    Automatic speed enforcement, Road pricing per mile and time of day, lockout of certain GPS co-ordinates based on public events and national security needs, Synchronised highway travel, Automatic stopping at redlights and Stop signs...the list goes on and on.

    The answer to all our prayers, or total disappearance of freedom to travel?
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    fintail says, "What percentage? If you are going to act like you have data, you better be prepared to present it."

    You know that is not a measurable number.

    But it comes from having driven about 500,000 miles in my lifetime, in many states and several foreign countries. Although since you have mentioned in previous posts that "life experience is OVERRATED," I doubt that would impress you.

    (Let's see how you feel about that statement when you hit 45 years....:))
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