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Comments
There are lots of laws I don't particularly LIKE, but I obey them as I should, and as you should.
Please, stick to telling your kids what they "should" do and limit the damage, don't try to distract people who aren't born to defer.
Looks like the Arizona cameras around Phoenix are going to lower the grace number to 10 mph instead of 11. There's probably an extra $100 million there. :shades:
Right and wrong is not a gray issue.
Speeding is illegal, and just like another other illegal act, doing so WHILE it is illegal is not right.
Anyone who tells their kids otherwise is a fool.
Every driver has.
But the point of this forum: Is Photo Radar good/bad/evil etc.
If people get snapped at 11+ over the limit, they need to pay their fine and shutitup.
You didn't really answer my question. Do you, as a rule, attempt to always drive at, or below, the posted speed limit?
Absolutely, about 95% of the time. In fact, one of my personal irritations when driving is having someone "zoom by" me. They are wasting fuel, probably not saving an instant of time (since I usually catch them at the next red light) and are taking a chance that any accident they might have (their fault or not) will be more damaging to their car and their body.
The other 5% of the time is when I take long trips to Texas to visit my roots. I usually drive 5-7 mph over the limit to try and reduce the 14 hour drive to as short as possible.
Breaking laws is not automatically a "wrong". This nation was founded upon breaking unjust laws set by brain dead politicos. And now we have a new set.
Drop your false moral high ground.
It's all about the money, and the lawmakers who know quite a few sheeple will defer and conform to anything they decree. If (a dying hypocritical) society deems it acceptable, it must be followed!
People who preach blind deference need to "shutitup" and get the hell out of any society that wishes to seek progress.
If I honestly believe what I say, and I do, and you believe it to be moral high ground, then from your perspective I must be standing on that ground.
And:
Speeding by over 11+ mph is an unjust law now?
In what way?
Were you an American citizen, your sentence would have ended with the word "us".
It is not criket to complain about a nation whose laws you choose to regard as a cafeteria selection for your selfish purpose while a guest in our country. Perhaps you would be happy living elsewhere. If so, GO, if not submit to our laws.
Anyone that cannot control their vehicle velocity to within 10 or 11 mph of the speed limit probably needs to stop driving because they are incompetent, immature or both. Why not just comply? What is so hard? Maybe some folks are just not organized enough to leave early, with plenty of time, so that they do not have to go 11 over. A phsycological (sp) problem?
You also lack the knowledge and insight to guess citizenship...there is no "us" in this country...
55 took how long to repeal again? That was as regressive and asinine as humanly possible. And as the nation dumbs down, a lot of the sheeple no doubt would like to see it again. Changing these idiots is like fighting bad policy in 1944 Germany or 1953 Russia...good luck.
Why comply with people who are inept in every facet of life? As the song goes...you can't even run your own life, I'll be [darned] if you'll run mine. Why should the government who is inept at everything else be trusted to competently manage speeds and enforcement?
Those who lack formal credentials in psychological venues shouldn't hazard guesses about said problems.
:sick:
Seeking more logical traffic regulations is indeed progress. Maybe the self-righteous who live in the desert and drive turtles at the speed of turtles can't recognize it.
Sunshine go away today
I don't feel much like dancing
Some man's gone, he's tried to run my life
Don't know what he's asking
Somehow, it seems even more relevant today, in this time of centralizing nanny-state Orwellian government than it did during that difficult era 40 years ago.
There's something happening now
What it is ain't exactly clear
Compare the US to nations of like economic and roadway development. It lags
I guess we'll have to disagree Fin. I try not to drive on vacations outside the US and Canada though - I got lost close to the Nicaragua border once, and almost got a Neon stuck in deep sand a mile off the pavement in northern Baja another trip.
Civil disobedience is alive and well in Arizona (or at least peaceful protesting is):
More freeway speed camera protests planned (AZCentral.com)
That's what thinking people call "hypocrisy". "Speeding is wrong unless I want to go to Texas". How absurd is that argument?
It reminds me of the joke about the priest who asks a woman if she will have sex with him for a million bucks. The lady replies that she would have sex with him for a million bucks. The priest responds: "How about sleeping with me for five bucks?" The woman says:"What kind of woman do you think I am?" To which the priest replies: "We already know what kind of woman you are, now we're just haggling over price!"
(No offense to priests intended, that's just how I heard the joke. I suppose you could change it to IL governor or democratic former President from AR).
Not really that hard to get laws such as speed limits changed if one tries. Through the years, I have read of numerous instances where citizens unite and petition government officials to change speed limits - wanting to get them lowered, and they suceed. I have also worked with community groups by attending meetings, doing actions, making speeches, giving presentations, etc., to then petition various government bodies on issues affecting my neighborhood.
+11 or +10 for photo radar speed is in line with actual practice of police officers "giving" some leeway or fudge factor with either manned radar or police car "clocking" a driver by following behind. A state trooper living in my neighborhood told me years ago that he gives +10 on interstates and rural highways. I did not question him whether his colleagues give the same or that that is an unwritten police procedure.
I have heard from others that +10 is usually given. There might be conditions where +10 is given, such as dry road and daylight. Maybe less is given for lesser conditions. Maybe zero if someone is trying to go at speed limit on an icy road.
Wrong.
People can adjust their attitudes. I am a long way attitudinally from myself at age 24, and many men are like that if it takes them a while to mature.
I had broken many laws in my youth. In my stupidity, in my ignorance, in my lack of understanding as to how things should work in a civilized society.
As I grew up, I began to understand how things should be.
I have many lawmen in my family. Most of them have done traffic patrols. They tell me that in most cases, people doing 5-7 miles per hour over the limit are not going to get pulled over.
And in my opinion, having an accident at 80 miles per hour is not going to be much different than having an accident at 75 miles per hour. But when you start talking 86+ miles an hour, the differences magnify.
Well, I have never said "speeding, even if only 1 mile per hour over the limit is a capital offense."
I have said "If you drive 11+ miles per hour over the limit and get snapped by photo radar, then pay your fine and shaddup yer piehole about it. You made your own bed, now get your [non-permissible content removed] to sleep in it."
And even when I go to Texas, and I drive 5-7 miles per hour over the limit, SAFELY, there are hundreds of people an hour passing me, HUGE NUMBERS of them going more than 11 miles an hour over the limit.
So, what you really teach your kids is that right and wrong IS a gray issue--if I agree with the law, then it is right. If I disagree with the law, then it is wrong. Furthermore, if I partially agree with the law, then the part I disagree with is wrong and it is right to only obey the part I agree with (i.e. "speeding is illegal and therefore wrong--unless I'm going to Texas, which makes it OK for me to violate the law, but only if I don't violate it by more than 10 mph").
I wouldn't dream of telling you how to raise your kids. However, I will say that my kids understand that breaking the law is wrong. Unless the law itself is wrong--in which case they have a responsibility as citizens to try to affect a change to that law.
Referring back to the million dollar lay: it sounds to me like we know what kind of citizen you are--we're merely haggling over how many miles-per hour.
You are entitled to your opinion. Please keep right and have a good day :P
Civilized society? Give it a rest.
"Doing actions"...
The vague award goes to...
Anarachy is a political theory holding all forms of governmental authority to be unnecessary and undesirable and advocating a society based on voluntary cooperation and free association of individuals and groups.
In the USA government is made of Laws, not individual or independent opinion of behavior.
The "speed limit" sign trumps the "keep right" sign & they are printed in Black & White. Get used to it down here. :P
The USA was founded upon independent behavior trumping unjust laws made by people who deserve the same horrible fate they have given to too many people in this world. The USA was not founded in blind deference to laws made by credential-free cronies and embraced by wannabe-authoritarians of a dying overrated generation.
Keep your butt in the right lane, and there won't be any trouble :P
Just setting aside the perfectly valid privacy issues for the moment, when the heck did we give these cameras the power of guilty until proven innocent?
In NJ we've had some photo enforcement cameras around for quite some time. They are sprouting all over at traffic lights now.
well, back when they were hitting the owners of the cars caught even when the owner could prove he wasn't here at the time. You had hundreds of folks that could prove they were out of state the entire day that the camera supposedly nailed them but to no avail. The one guy who was able to get a not guilty through was one who was able to prove that no only he but the car in question never left Virginia that day and thus could not be in New Jersey.
Didn't Thoreau indicate civil disobedience is sometimes a necessary step to reach rational laws?
You can't be serious, can you? That is a REALLY
dumbpoorly reasoned statement. :sick:Using the same logic, murder trumps armed robbery, so robbery must be okay, as long as you don't kill anyone.... brilliant! :shades:
Interesting question, since you ask me to defend something that I rarely do and usually am opposed to for others.
How about this. Near where I live there is a section of I-87 where the speed limit drops from 65 to 55 for no real reason before increasing to 65 again a few miles down the road. The guvmint (as you call it) says that this is because the road is close to an urban area and this is one of the reasons a state may choose to set limits lower. The trouble is that a few miles down the road where the speed increased to 65 is CLOSER to urban areas than where it is 55.
Also our local boys in blue always have a radar trap at the point where the limit drops to 55. they catch a large number of people who after traveling perhaps hundreds of miles at 65 don't notice the unexplained change to 55. They get nailed for doing 66-67 in a 55 zone and good old NY state nicks them for fines, surcharges and safety assessments to the tune of several hundred dollars.
It is scams like these that make me suspisous of photo radar as anything other than a money grab. They just don't want the police officers judgment or kindness to screw up their shakedown.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
My brother went to court to fight the ticket. since he came from out of state to fight it the prosecutor was stunned. He reduced it to a parking ticket. Yes, you can go over the speed limit and be considered parking in the eyes of the law.
Isn't that like a Senator who preaches "family values" 95% of the time spending the other 5% trolling for sex in the men's room? Virtue is not a sometimes thing.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
The same day we decided to submit to the surveillance grid, big brother, new world order....a natural progression.
Time to get some polarized license plate covers, perhaps.
Incapable...exactly. The masses are incapable of creating change if they as a whole stick within the lines of what the yellow hypocrite authoritarians deem to be "proper". Words can incite...and with any luck they will.
Incorrect. In many states impeding the flow of traffic carries as many points as a 10 mph over-the-limit violation. Besides, if you have no place to go, why not have the courtesy to move right for a few moments and let them pass? It will only hurt for a little while and may keep you from getting shot by some maniac. You might even be surprised by the pleasant wave you're likely to get from the person passing.
"Courtesy" is another ruse of the driver who wants nobody in front of him.
The better driver can pass on the Right while those driving as fast as the law allows may remain in the far Left lane, driving as fast as the law allows.
As for the maniac with a gun, when I'm within his range, he's within mine.
Trump = ranks more important. Conforming to the Speed Limit is more important than Keeping Right.