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Comments
How long can it possibly take for people to come to the realization that there is an exhaust problem with the 2003 4Runner that is adding to the smell problem? It will not magically disappear as some think.
Credibility is lost for those now changing their mind about the sulfur smell. It is either there or not.
Toyota designed this piece of junk, not you. So quit the defensiveness and deal with the truth. The excuses and the remedies posted here are laughable. If Toyota representatives are reading the posts here, they are now probably embarrassed themselves knowing the audience purchasing their vehicle.
The smell problem exists and Toyota will not accept responsibility!
...Bob
and..... Romania Toyota ( www.toyotaguys.com ) have the best price.
http://www.gadgetonline.com/Super.htm
You will find a very good explanation and some problems you MAY run into with a supercharger.
Gadgetonline is must reading for anyone considering purchasing a TRD supercharger.
Thank you for passing this on...
http://www.gadgetonline.com/Super.htm
I just stopped by Sandy Springs Toyota in Atlanta area and drove the SR5 model 4WD V6 and V8 for the first time. Here is my feedback on both and please do comment if your impression was similar or totally different ..
SR5 4WD V6 (with 4 miles on ODO): Ran smooth off the mark and throughout the rpm range. Felt a tiny bit short on power going uphill but was not bad whatsoever. The positive impression was that the ride seemed settled and quiet with not much drivetrain noise in 2-wheel-drive mode. Moved it from H2 (2-high) to H4 (4-High) during the test drive and then noticed the drivetrain had stiffened a little and bumps became a little more pronounced.
SR5 4WD V8 (with 6 miles on ODO): Ran smooth off the mark and at speed. I was expecting a lot more smooth response from this legendary V8 but didn't feel the difference from the 6-cyl. In fact, since this one is all-time-4-high, there was that same stiffened feel to the suspension that I found on V6 with H4 mode. My reasoning was the extra smoothness and refinement of the V8 will more than make up for the stiffer ride but the difference in refinement was not there (at least to my senses).
Bottom line (at least for me) was that I walked away more impressed with the 6-cyl as it offers the versatility of staying in 2-wheel-drive and moving to 4-high only when situation requires it. That would also be easier on the fuel consumption and drive-line wear and tear. But on the other hand, Toyota has been making this all time all wheel drive in the LC for more than a decade with amazing reliability so may be my concern of extra toll on the drive-line is unwarranted.
Will look forward for more feedback on this ..
I was hoping that they would bring back the two tone paint package and some of the old colors that were on the previous generation.
did you see anything about memory seats or hid headlights as a 2004 option ???
bkhan1:
I have towed many boats with 2wd vehicles and never had a problem, as long as you are using concrete boat ramps, not anything dirt, then 2wd should almost always be ok, remember the weight of the boat improves your rwd traction significantly, just don't floor when coming up the ramp, just start off nice and easy and you should have no problem. But I would def opt for the V8 for pulling any full size boat. Limited slip diff has been heavily debated on other edmunds sites, and one is not available on the 4runner in either the 4wd or 2wd, it only uses traction control to apply brakes to a spinning wheel.
In spite of having almost twice the torque as our '98, the '03 behaves much the same when towing. Even mild grades will cause the torque converter to unlock, and/or the tranny to downshift to 4th. Frankly, I've been a bit disappointed at how little difference is apparent between the two vehicles. I'd guess the same would be true with a supercharger bolted on to your 3.4.
I found that with proper use of the gearbox, out '98 was capable of just about anything when towing, even in the mountains. Note that proper use of the gearbox includes 5,000 rpm in second gear for minutes at a time when towing up long hills on interstate highways in the mountains. The 3.4 V6 and 4-speed AT are very robust, and gave me no trouble at all in spite of this punishing behavior. The only limiting factor on towing in mountains is the brakes, which are VERY prone to fade if you don't use the gears to brake the truck (and will fade on long, steep downgrades even when using 2nd gear to descend).
My suggestion would be to keep what you have and enjoy it. The 3rd gen 'Runners are a class act.
-Karl
Please, no posting of contact information on the boards including names of salespeople.
tidester, host
I am surprised that your ‘03 4Runner Limited V8 performed basically the same when towing that your ‘98 had. Last week I considered purchasing a ‘03 Sequoia because of its 4.7 V8, same engine as your new 4Runner. If I had made that purchase and found little difference in towing performance, I would have been very disappointed. The Sequoia is rated to pull 6200 lbs., my 4Runner 5000, not an appreciable difference considering the HP and torque increase in the larger truck.
I’m probably under estimating the power and durability of my ’02. I have the option to buy the 7 year/100,000 mile warranty from my Toyota dealer for $950.00, something I would do if purchasing the supercharger. Probably will do this regardless of what I decide, if the towing causes a problem the repairs will be covered. I consider warranties something you must buy on most domestic cars, not on Honda’s or Toyota’s. My guess is I will never need to use it.
Again thank you very much for taking the time to share your experience. Spending $3500.00+ for the supercharger for towing may not give me the performance expected but buying the $950.00 warranty will give me piece of mind.
Bob....
The two versions performed very similarly, perhaps due to the fact that one has more torque and the other has more horsepower. If transmissions were perfect, more horsepower would always mean better performance, but the broader torque band of the V8 (and the fact that the difference in horsepower is small) probably makes the V8 faster in most situations. One useful test of power is 50-70 MPH acceleration, and both felt equally strong/fast and were impressive even though I wasn't using full throttle. They did the job differently, though. The V6 transmission kicked down immediately and smoothly, while the V8 just pulled hard for a while before kicking down. That may be due to different transmission programming, designed to take advantage of the V8 torque. Though they were both quite civilized, the V6 was a little noisier under heavy acceleration, and didn't sound quite as smooth--no surprise with two fewer cylinders.
Though they felt equally powerful, the V6 seemed a little more responsive, if not "sporty," and the throttle response was smoother. Some of this is probably due to the extra torque (and transmission ratios?) the V8 has at low revs, making it easier to jerk the vehicle around with the throttle. I posted a while back that the V8 felt a little more "clunky" in throttle transitions, especially rolling on the throttle from a near stop. The V6 felt slightly smoother over bumps, especially while turning, and this could be due to the 130lb lighter engine.
There are other reasons to choose between the two engines. The little "V8" badge in the grille is a fun thing to have. Others have written about the newness of this engine, but some have noted that the V8, while several years old, is paired here with a brand new transmission. In terms of long-term reliability, I think it's probably a toss-up. For example, my wife's '98 Camry needed a new transmission to fix a recurring problem, but the engine's been perfect. For me, I liked the availability of a 2WD mode, with its better mileage and potentially lower mechanical wear. A few have had problems with bad smells from the V8s, and the problem appears to be less or absent with the V6. The V8 is better for towing, and the May+ production units will have a beefier hitch (and a $300 bigger price difference)--see my previous post on the new tow ratings.
By the way, that big plastic shield on the top of the V6 that says VVT-i is not just window dressing. It's a heavy thing, bolted at the front and hinged at the back and padded to provide sound damping/insulation. It covers what I believe are air plenums and I expect it softens intake drone under acceleration.
As I said above, these are my opinions and experiences. My decision bounced back and forth several times and I would have been happy either way. You should test drive until you feel comfortable with your choice, and drive what you like. It's your money!
Im curious do you still have your cladded SR5 4Runner? As much as you hate the vehicle I would assume that you have traded it. Trading a vehicle that you hate and proclaim to be "junk" would be logical. Therefore I am betting that you still have the vehicle.
SV
Also, what about the ride factor ? Isn't the V8 4WD going to ride stiffer when compared to V6 4WD ?
Could anyone define the "improved performance?" I think I have noticed that my V8 limited seems to respond faster with less press on the accelerator with the 91 but am I just imagining this with the manual's "improved vehicle performance" in mind?...
I would like to think that 87 is just fine, but does anyone know scientifically what Toyota is talking about with the "improved vehicle performance?"
The extra torque of the V8 could certainly put an extra load on the driveline, especially if one was towing a lot and/or near the rated limits. However the V8 has a different transmission and most have assumed that it was designed for the torque of the V8. The AWD of the V8 will be under load 100% of the time, but even with the multi-mode of the V6 in 2WD, many of the front drive parts are still spinning, even if not under load. In addition, the AWD mode (mandatory in the V8) would serve to spread out the load and consequent wear, and the V8 presumably lacks some of the 2WD/4WD switching parts that the multi-mode V6 needs. The real gain for 2WD seems to me to be in the 4Runners that are 2WD only, where the extra driveline parts don't even exist.
All in all, I too suspect that the V6 is less likely to encounter problems if it's operated in 2WD most of the time, but I don't think the difference will be very great. My opinion is that these differences in reliability are small compared to the differences between brands, and that's why I like Toyota. They show great quality in their design and execution, and I've had very good experiences with them.
As for the ride factor, my experiences with the two versions didn't match yours exactly. The V8 might have been a little stiffer, but what I noticed was a little more general "wiggle" after bumps or crossing road seams. That could have been AWD-related, but I couldn't tell. It was not a large difference and I've had a hard time expressing it except to say that the V6 felt a little smoother and less "clunky."
BTW, others have commented on this a little in previous posts. Maybe they'll do so again.
This stuff is a factor for higher compression engines that are designed to take advantage of higher octane fuels. The V6 has a slightly higher compression ratio than the V8 and may see a slightly bigger benefit from the higher octane fuel, but both are apparently designed to make maximum horsepower on premium.
Mileage on premium will be slightly lower, so your cost for having max horsepower on tap is more pennies/mile for fuel. I don't think there are any other tradeoffs, as neither of these engines require premium for normal operation.
I think this is pretty consistent with previous postings on the matter, but perhaps I/we are managing to miss your fundamental question. Would you care to clarify?
So other than reduced peak horsepower/ a few more mpg, you are saying that otherwise the engine will operate basically the same on regular? I guess for some reason I interpret "improved vehicle performance" to mean "better for engine" so I just wanted to be sure the enigne will have the same longevity on the lower grade fuel.
Thanks
As far as the 4wd/2WD discussion above, surely it would be less wearing on the rear drivetrain set (driveshaft, axles, diff) if the 4WD were engaged, thus causing the front set to take part of the load of pushing the truck along? In this context, your best bet would be to get the V-6 and drive in 4WD all the time.
But Toyota has never had issues on the Runner with the durability of driveshafts and axles, which usually last the life of the truck, so it doesn't make much difference either way.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Seriously though, these trucks have an awesome amount of longevity. The 89-95 V-6s had an engine TSB that chased some off the road, but Toyota will fix the problem for free, and apart from that, the entire 2nd and 3rd gen had no systemic engine or transmission problems.
It is the same story as many old 80s Toyotas...eventually the paint fades, the vehicle is not worth that much any more, the rust starts, the owner gets bored with the vehicle. But if you want to keep it, it will give you 15 years no sweat, and more if you are so inclined. There are so many of these still running around from the 80s, compared to other trucks, it is ridiculous.
Offroad fans love the older ones, and an old Runner is a great way to pick up a bulletproof platform to build a great offroad truck on (suspension mods, lifts, oversize tires, etc).
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I'm with nippononly when he says "Either way, there is not much in it." Engine longevity will probably be determined by other factors. If my past experience with Toyota engines is any guide, as long as you change the oil frequently and do regular maintenance and don't really abuse them, you'll wear out before they do.
http://www.howstuffworks.com/question90.htm
jd
Can you or others shed any light on this?
As for the newness of the V8 drivetrain, it finally struck me to check elsewhere on this (Edmunds) site. From the "Helpful Links" box at the left edge of this page, the 4Runner "Road Test: First drive" see the 2nd and third paragraph pasted below:
--------------
The 4.0-liter V6 is an all-new engine design that incorporates some firsts for a Toyota truck. It's the company's first all-aluminum truck engine, the first truck engine to make use of Toyota's Variable Valve Timing with intelligence (VVT-i) and the first Toyota truck engine to employ a variable intake manifold. The results are impressive: 245 horsepower at 5,200 rpm and 283 pound-feet of torque at 3,400 rpm. The engine is also LEV-certified and boasts significantly reduced amounts of lead to make it more recyclable in the future.
The optional 4.7-liter V8 is not quite as new, but it is no less deserving of mention. Debuting in the Tundra pickup in 2000, the iForce V8 has gained a reputation as one of the smoothest, most refined eight-cylinders ever to grace the engine bay of a pickup. Generating 235 horsepower at 4,800 rpm and 320 lb-ft of torque at 3,400 rpm, the iForce engine offers slightly less horsepower but significantly more torque for those who need the extra grunt for towing.
The biggest news for V8 buyers is the introduction of an all-new five-speed automatic transmission — another first for a Toyota truck. It features slightly lower gearing overall than the previous four-speed, but a taller overdrive gear for better highway mileage. All V6-equipped models retain the same four-speed automatic used on the previous model.
--------------
That's one source. Perhaps it can be cross-checked with others for accuracy.
Steve, Host
Sorry for the delay in response, I was on vacation.
To start out with, I got the cladding, because that was standard both when I ordered and when it was built. I'm not sure what the case with Sports are at this point.
As far as ordering/negotiating, it was suprisingly easy. With a cumulation of about 20minutes on the phone and no more than 12 emails, I got my 4runner ordered. Granted, much time was spent before I sent out any emails or calls here on edmunds and other sites researching and on the car lot driving/looking.
As far as once I decided on a 4runner sport 4WD V-6 with 'no' options, the process was simple. I used edmunds and toyota to find dealers in my area that had internet sales people. Once I had that, I made sure in the comment section available that I mentioned the no option requirement and that from what I knew that it would be a build order. I got about ten responses in two days, of which probably 75% didn't obviously read the comment and tried to get me into a SUV with moonroof, jbl, spoiler (ugly,ugly,ugly), etc. I then emailed them all and reiterated my requirement for NO options asked for best prices,etc.
From that point the decision was easy, many said they wouldn't do build orders and of the ones that did, all said "bottom line, $1000 over invoice" or more, and carson toyota (of whom I eventually purchased from) gave me a $500 over invoice quote. After letting the others know of the lower quote only one matched it. On a side note, I called many of the dealers that said they would do a build order, and most of them did not seem confident in the process. Carson not only was one of the two with a $500 over invoice quote, but also were VERY confident in the process because they do many build orders a year (probably the most on the west coast from what I hear). So I would say to you, get the bottom lines by just asking (that didn't take more than two emails and 5 minute phone call to two or three places) and then ask how experienced in the build order process they are (in my mind the MOST important aspect).
Once I chose the dealer, I exchanged maybe three emails, a couple of phone calls, and it was done. Toyota requires a $1000 deposit (which they didn't even cash) and the order was put in. I was notified a couple weeks before 4runner got in (three months after ordering) and I worked out financing over the phone in like 10 minutes. And when the 4runner made it onto the lot, I picked it up and drove it off the lot in like an hour.
Hope that was some help,
Jared
Regarding the engine (ticking/fluttering) noise in the V6, I do think that is typical of the VVTi engine. Especially since many people report similar sounds.
I think the 5-speed tranny is the least of any worries. The "i-Force" V8 is basically the same engine used in Land Cruiser/LX470, except that it is tuned to run on regular fuel (tiny bit more HP, but less torque). Therefore, the 4Runner's 4.7L V8 engine has it's roots around since 1999, not 2000.
Then I remembered that the sunglasses I bought last night are polarized filters. So the light coming off the odometer and JBL stereo display must be polarized, too, in order to change between completely dark and normal as I tilt my head. But no such light from the trip computer.
Kind of irrelevant, but I thought it was interesting.
I think the plastic in front of the lights acts like your sunglasses and polarizes the light (as opposed to the light starting off as polarized).
tidester, host