2010-2011 Buick LaCrosse

ab348 · August 2011

Isn't that a RWD car?

e_net_rider · August 2011

I wish you luck with your shopping. I just don't see how anyone could get one that has as many problems as mine. Guys I know that work at various dealers are all dumbfounded, none are salemen.
Definitely do your homework.
Oddly, I've seen two versions of the Diamond White. One is a brilliant white with just a slight hue of blue. My old Aurora was Diamond White.
The other is something I'd never consider as Diamond White. It is much warmer and if you look at Lucernne of same color and a few others, it is called Pearl White on those. My Aurora was available in that color too, and i've seen it on some Cadillac.
If I lived in snow country, I think I'd rule out white. White is fine hear in the south and very common. I wanted to stay away from unusal or quite dark colors here in the south. So I felt the red was a good choice for both locations.
The pearl and diamond were both tricoat processes and the red seems to be multicoat from what I've read.
I have to wonder why they discontinued the jewel tint red?
What options are running up the price?
If I lived up there, I'd likely look more closely at the AWD.

e_net_rider · August 2011

Pretty hard to judge from just a picture. I see they added front end sensors.
That color and wheels are not particularly attractive to me.
If it was not for the bumper on front I'd think it could be a Regal or Buick Century.
Having the bumper stick out like that may be insurance reasons. Less damage in small accidents.

ab348 · August 2011

Thank you for confirming my perception of the Diamond White paint - I find it to have almost a gold hue to it like it has gold metalflake in the mix but others have told me I am crazy. I know the one you refer to with the almost bluish tone and the one they are now using is not this.

The red jewel has been made unavailable due to the Japan earthquake causing non-availability of some of the components that are in the paint.

Today the dealer was closed and I went over to look on the lot. The red CX and the silver CXL were parked side by side making it easy to compare. From the outside the CX actually looked better because of the color. It was missing the fog lamps and the smaller wheels didn't look quite as good as the 18" ones on the CXL, but overall I liked the red better than the silver. Interestingly the shipping manifest from the Fairfax plant was on the floor and I could read that it left there in November of 2010 so it has been sitting for a while. The silver CXL would have looked so much better if it didn't have the black interior IMO. Without a sunroof it looked quite dingy in there.

Funnily enough, parked next to the CXL was a Regal Turbo, in black with black interior. It had a sunroof so the interior was not quite so dismal. The price was about the same as the CXL (both had dealer-installed incentive price stickers on the window). I was astounded to see that the outside rear door handle area was covered with scratches, as if someone with long nails had been using it regularly. Amazed that they hadn't addressed that. Another reason I do not like dark paints.

Hard to say which I would choose at equal price everything else being equal. I like the Regal styling better but the Lacrosse seems to be more car.

imidazol97 · August 2011

One of the 3 layer finishes a few years back was "gold flash," a white with tones of gold from the pearlized layer showing at some angles. I preferred a brighter, whiter pearlescent paint such as used on the Cadillacs.

e_net_rider · August 2011

You just reminded me that I've seen some labeled pearl and they looked like the diamond white to me. Cadillac had both colors too.
It's as if they mixed up the paint or the labelling. When you see two new Buicks on the lot and one says pearl and the other says white diamond tri-coat, parked right next to each other, and look to be the same exact color, pearl, not even close to diamond white, you have to wonder.

e_net_rider · August 2011

It has reached the point the GM man is coming to town. I have no idea what to day to him, but this is one vehicle they should take back.

Oil. Tank before last, I checked oil and noted it was down a little from where it was when changed. It was just in the upper cross-hatch area. Something discussed before was the weirdness of these dip sticks. They don't look anything like the owner's manual, and when filled with the amount the manual states, it ends up above the cross-hatch. All the way to the top of the bob attached to the wire. Since that oil level check, I drove that tank out, and about 275 miles on the current tank. I had noted the OLM was about 20% and decided time to change. Vehicle went in shop and put off until getting back. Noted they used quite a bit of gas. Looks like they drove it about 60 miles, plus worked on AC. I had the oil since I got it back and filters on hand and temperature was a little less this morning, so I tackled it.
First, this pureone filter obviously has a good anti-drainback valve. It was full of oil when removed.
Amount of oil lost, total, did not wet a paper towel. I did note that the oil looks much blacker than I'm used to for gas engines. Closer to diesel oil. BTW, Mobil has got their labeling caught up and it now shows dexos on the bottle for 5W30 Mobil One.

But alarms went off when I put the used oil from my drain pan back into the 5 qt jug. I drained all the oil I could from the filter. Aside from crushing it and using a squeegie on the drain pan, I got all back in the jug. 5.5 qts in and slightly less than 4.5 qts out.
I'm used to engines that are tight, using absolutely no oil in 6000 miles. I can only guess how much oil the drop on the stick represents, but it was a long way from the lower cross-hatch.
I wish I had looked at the stick just before draining.
I am used to sticks that the difference between the top mark and the bottom is 1 qt. But, as we know, because the sticks are off on the full mark, it is hard to fathom what the marks actually mean. It has me wondering if during the last 1 1/2 tanks of full I had an accelerated rate of oil usuage. Guess I will just have to watch closely until I figure it out.
And oil is being sent for analysis.
BTW, results of AC work, still bad. Subsequent to changing the expansion valve, it acted like it was low on freon. Possibility of getting bad expansion valve, but now it acts like it has too much freon. The capacity of these systems was greatly decreased a number of years back, around the time of moving away from R-12. The purpose being that sooner or later a number of systems will lose all freon. Sometimes from an accident. Minimizing the amount of freon in a system meant less released into the atmosphere. These days we don't have a surplus in the system which means the accuracy of fill is more critical than past for optimum cooling. Sadly many shops add oil as a just in case when there is absolutely no signs of oil leakage. Running low on oil is bad. But oil is not compressible and takes up space the freon would normally use. That's right, it still is not blowing extremely cold air at the beginning and quickly cooling interior.

e_net_rider · August 2011

You just reminded me that I've seen some labeled pearl and they looked like the diamond white to me. Cadillac had both colors too.
It's as if they mixed up the paint or the labelling. When you see two new Buicks on the lot and one says pearl and the other says white diamond tri-coat, parked right next to each other, and look to be the same exact color, pearl, not even close to diamond white, you have to wonder.
I've driven both, and the Lacrosse is much more car. The Regal is much like a Malibu, except it has some softer surfaces on interior and is noisier. That is it has a usuable center armrest. The handling is definitely different, but not quite sure why. I suspect different springs and struts, but the electric power steering, if still used in Malibu, makes a big difference in how it feels at the wheel. I personally find the feature offering short in the Regal, but don't know if the Malibu has added the newer things since 09.
There are some features on Lacrosse I love, even better if they all worked all the time.
These are the HUD, never have to take my eyes off road to check speed. The HID articulating headlights. I drove one without and could really tell the difference. It just had the standard lights. I don't know how much was because of the brighter HID which seem to have a tighter beam or the articulating.
The performance with 3.6 is good, but should be delivering better mileage.
I've driven CXL and CXS. The CXS comes with hyper-strut and definitely is a step up in handling.
The touring package is iffy. It has full time electronic control of suspension system, a plus. I would say it removes some of the bouncey from the ride. Definitely if you put in sport mode. Some have said they can't tell the difference between when sport mode is on and off. The test most used is go across a speed bump slowly. You can definitely see it stiffens ride. So, I generally don't use it at speeds below 35 MPH. Cruising roads or highway, it depends upon the road surface. If the road is smooth, I might leave it on just for added handling capability. I have seen three different suspensions under rear of 10-11 Lacrosse. One was like a huge piece of cast aluminum in a triangular shape. It had two forward attachment points with the third at the wheel and acting like a trailing link. Another had two arms each side attached at center line and wheel. This I had confused with the H-arm. Some mechanics were incorrectly calling that type of suspension H-arm. It may be called H-pattern sometimes. I eventually learned that H-arm is similar to it, except there is some solid structure between the two arms so it is not able to move forward or aft with respect to the vehicle. And used on some high end sports cars such as Lamborghini. Also the arms are much shorter. Consequently, when hitting bumps in road at high speed, it causes some sway of rear. It is strictly because of mechanics of the short arm and the wheel trying to move in and out. Turning sport mode on eliminates almost all of it. (I don't like a swaying rear end either).
The GY tires seem to be the bad part of touring package. Noisy and hard. Slippery on the slightest amount of snow. A bit more latteral flex to sidewalls would likely eliminate much of the rear sway when not in sport mode.
Nav/Radio.... The 11 speaker HK is not all it can be, but superb when compared to the standard radio which should probably be consigned to work trucks. But the source is a big question mark. Radio stations are just that. XM is better but drops out too much. CD, DVD, music copied to HDD is best, except it would even be better if the USB portable HDD actually worked. That way I'd have an immense amount of music available to me.
There is no doubt that the world of electronics is fastly changing, but they were too far behind when GM implemented it in this vehicle. A two year old Navigation database is unforgivable. It has given me too many wrong directions. $200 bucks for the update disk, which is already outdated. Also the GPS drops out so even OnStar turn by turn won't work. And OnStar should have stayed with satcom system in case you lose cell service.
I mentioned the frequent dropout of XM, so XM Nav is not truly dependable. Not to mention their monitoring is very limited. Only major metropolitan areas.
I do note that in the menu for adding bluetooth device, there is one for adding a GPS. I suspect that may be for a highend one that could possibly link to full time monitoring such as verizon VZ Navigator. I can get the app on my cell phone, but don't know if there is any way for it to communicate with vehicle. (other than bluetooth phone part). And for truly hands free operation, it needs more commands. Still it is a nice map and rear camera. When the camera is up to the job. Sunlight and brake lights can interfere with what it sees.
The rear sunshade. Helps with bright lights at night too.
SBZA, side blindzone alert. Well, when it was working it was absolutely great. It was very beneficial toward minimizing the time you'd hunt the mirrors for something. Once you saw the warning, then you could follow with more thorough looking once you were certain that the extra looking in the mirror would not put you into the back end of someone. My son-in-law almost crashed mine because he spent too much time checking the right side mirror and traffic had come to a stop ahead of us.
But there are a number of things that I feel need improvement.
GY tires
The entire seat (the bottom, the back, especially lumbar support, and headrest)
Better isolation of the steering wheel from road bumps, vibration, etc. and maybe a bit more padding. Make mine a tilt, not rake.
Better gas mileage.
Improve the rear camera. And add those side alerts some vehicles have, as well as the front system.
Fix XM and GPS reception. I had XM in another vehicle and it worked, so I know it is the vehicle/radio.
Having to add air to tires at least once a month, sometimes twice, says it is time to fix leaky wheels or tires.
Fix the CAF system so it does what is claimed, remove odors and filter pollen at least!
Better trunk liner, one that makes use of the space behind it too.
Reprogram several items so they work as they should. Heck, just fix everything on production so twice a month visits to service are not routine.

e_net_rider · August 2011

A bit more.
I would certainly wonder why that red one is still around. A friend works in parts, non-GM, and confirmed that they are still able to change mileage on vehicles with computer test. If a computer dies, they have to be able to input the current mileage into the new computer.
The date you mention I'm rather certain would have been before they put 4 cylinder in the CX, thus no upcharge for 3.6L.
You mentioned no fog lamps. I prefer to call them driving lights since they are not yellow. They are quite useful when driving slower speeds such as below 40 MPH. They give nice close in lighting to avoid the unwanted. One nice thing they did with them is the switch. A nice big round button that is easily located by touch, making it turning on/off blind man capable.
With lower profile tires it is something I would definitely want. Good tires are expensive and as one tire dealer told me, he would not sell me a road hazard because of the number of claims he has had on low profile tires.

crankeee · August 2011

rider: Have to say you post the most detailed comments on all components.
Your post on the H-arm sent me to the garage. The H-arm setup on our 2010 CXL is really more robust. The main member is indeed attached at four major points (h-arm) with the additional heavy cast member from the wheelwell/body to the member to avoid movement front/rear or fore and aft to nautical types. All the additional cast parts added greater weight and strength (and cost) and was only on ours due to the 4-wheel drive option (only on 2010 CXLs). We did not order it just got lucky without the finicky 4-wheel drive contraption! The car does not bounce or sway at all on the road even over bumps at speed (Michelin tyres) and the suspension seems to be overall outstanding at keeping the tyres on the road for better handling and control. Newer models use a stamped steel (cheaper/lighter) main member that is common on many crossovers to save cost. The H-arm definately cost MUCH more to design, mfr and install.
Engine: Per prior posts our 3.0L is all around great. 29MPG at 75 and plenty of power thoughout the torgue curve IMO.
We have not had any major issues with the car at 11000 miles and feel it is a great value.
good luck with your attempt to get a replacement vehicle for your CXS- I have never tried that with gm but have received great responses to TSB and non-recall repair issues when I got a knowledgeable rep in Detroit - not in world city X.

navychief3 · August 2011

I also have a problem with a vibration with my 2011 Lacrosse CXS with only 3800 miles. Bought the car in Nov 2010,took the car to the dealership with less than 500 miles,they said nothing was wrong,but replaced all 4 tires hoping this would help.IT DID NOT! After 10-12 trips back and forth to 2 different Buick dealership, another new set of tires at 3500 miles,numerous road force balances, a certified letter to BRIAN SWEENEY,VP OF BUICK SALES AND SERVICE, MY PROBLEM IS STILL THERE!! As you can tell by the mileage, I drive my 2500HD Silverado more because it rides better. The dealers do not want to (or didn't) check anything else,I/E, shocks/struts,rotors, drive train,etc! Funny thing is that both dealerships let me drive another new unsold 2011 Lacrosse, both had the same vibration problem. Buick needs to get someone involved in solving this vibration problem. I love my Lacrosse,a very beautiful car,but hate the ride. This is my 10th new GM vehicle since 1992. Good luck on getting help.

gmcustsvc · August 2011

navychief3,

I apologize for the problems you are experiencing with your new vehicle. By chance have you spoken with GM Customer Assistance and has the dealership involved Technical Assistance? Please keep me posted.

Thank you,
Caron, GM Customer Service

1ststate · August 2011

I have a 2010 CXS with just over 10,000 miles on it. When I went out this morning the battery was dead. Charged it up and it was fine. Couldn't find any left on. The only thing that was out of the ordinary was the night before the car wanted to pick up on the bluetooth while I was outside of the garage with the car not running. Does the bluetooth stay on when the car is not running. Would it have stayed on after the call when I walked out of range to continue my phone call? Thanks

50324lacrosse · August 2011

Mine is 19 months into the vibration issue. It is not a fun car to drive because of this. In partial defence of some dealers, when they call GM for assistance, because GM does not know what is causing the vibration the first thing to do is balance the wheels. It is very unfortunate that a cause can not be determined. I am so dissapointed with my LaCrosse and the lack of interest by GM that I have vowed never to but another GM. If you get a case number from GM customer service, keep it going until it is totally resolved. Once it gets closed, you are forgotten by GM. I wished now that I would have demanded a buy back early on when the miles were lower.

DAVE
2010 LaCrosse

e_net_rider · August 2011

I ran across the same issue recently. Phone started acting stupid. It had not been like that previously, that is if within 60 feet of vehicle, it would want to transfer to car, even when the car has been off for some time. I would normally expect to see that bluetooth was connecting when the vehicle was started. More stupid GM programming/updates?

e_net_rider · August 2011

What sort of vibration are you and the chief now experiencing?
I had a bad tire on mine, but think they needed to be reminded tires should only be changed in pairs. I could really tell the difference with one new and other over 10K on front.
This stuff makes for a horrible owners experience. Since both have CXS, do both have GY or Michelins.
Dave, I don't know about your area, but here the lemon law is figured from the time of first complaint on issue. First complaint at 300 miles, you get reimbursed back to then, as a percentage of 120K. We have two years, 24K miles coverage under lemon. I need to read through it again because my issues have been repeating, but there are just so darned many I can easily say Edsel. I don't know what issues were with it, but I'd bet I have far more when you count them up.
Good luck to say the least.
I'm seriously considering doing a large report to the safety people. Doing it at a technical level that might be above their investigators, and if they get it wrong, shame on them. It is not a good time to be looking for a job.

e_net_rider · August 2011

If you read through the service bulletins and recall issues, via this site, you might get sick to your stomach.
But I thought I'd mention that CAF again. I've noticed that sometimes it did not seem to have a high enough fan speed to cool effectively. I had been judging that from air exiting vent once interior cooled and fan slowed. A little while back I got to playing with the setting for the auto control of fan speed. I have had mine on high since new. Certainly any other setting during hours of sun coming into vehicle, is too slow. I believe the filter has become adequately plugged to restrict the air flow. Just turned 12K and it still don't remove odors, fine dust, etc.
I think GM screwed up with its implementation. On Sable I had with one, the filter was strictly for outside air. That way there was no restriction with a dirty filter when recirculating the air. And worry of burning up fan motor which GM has mentioned as a concern. And as I observed, restricted flow across the evaporator is not a good thing either.

gmcustsvc · August 2011

1ststate,
The owners manual states:
"The system can be used while the ignition is in ON/RUN or ACC/ACCESSORY. The range of the Bluetooth system can be up to 9.1m(30 ft.)."
If you are experiencing concerns, I would recommend visiting your dealer of choice. Please keep me posted.
Christina
GM Customer Service

e_net_rider · August 2011

Found it open again this morning. The range on these FOBs is fantastic, but I'm tired of finding my trunk open.
I had not really checked, but wonder now if it is also unlocking vehicle and I've just not noticed.
Obviously the buttons are getting bumped when I carry the FOB. Thank you GM for another lousy design.

e_net_rider · August 2011

Christina, hi, wondered where you've been.
GM or Buick has messed up the programming with bluetooth and this vehicle. In my 09 Malibu, the car bluetooth would not activate until the power was changed from off. With this one, if within range and vehicle off, it transfers.
More fine GM programming logic.

crankeee · August 2011

rider: is this Bluetooth/FOB malfunction occurring only on the cars with the keyless entry/proximity detection feature? We avoided that little "improvement" on our 2010 CXL on purpose. The keyless start button withe proximity detection programming has been a problem on others cars also.
Just wondering if it is only showing up on the keyless entry models????
Regards Crankee

gmcustsvc · August 2011

e_net_rider,
I'm still out here on the forums. Have you mentioned it to the the dealer? I can look into your VIN and see if there is some kind of update. Just let me know.
Christina
GM Customer Service

e_net_rider · August 2011

Finding the trunk open frequently, I'd suspect is due to the increased range of the remote start FOB. I had remote start on 09 Malibu, and sometimes I found it unlatched. As to doors being unlocked, they probably were too, but you just don't think about checking to make sure doors were latched when approaching to get in. This certainly opens a can of worms. You might find someone in your vehicle, especially during those times such people actively seek unlocked vehicles.
As to the bluetooth, I would say it is not connected to the remote start FOB function. Other than that I don't know because I have no way at present to compare with vehicles differently equipped. I can tell you that Bluetooth seemed to work perfectly until around May 31.

e_net_rider · August 2011

Christina, I've had so many problems it is hard to keep up with what dealer was informed of. But I suspect you are correct. That was the morning I encountered a no start and called for jump, after several unsuccessful attempts because they wanted VIN and everytime I got near vehicle to read it the phone auto transferred to interior. Perhaps I thought fixing one would fix the other. I drove straight to dealer once jumped and wanted other issues fixed as well. I started to drive off in loaner when I remembered that I forgot to tell them of sticking caliper. I circled around and reported it. It has happened twice on this vehicle. At least twice on the Malibu, and on the Malibu, one occasion was not at all pleasant. This could easily have been the same on this vehicle. There is no way for the systems to know if a caliper has stuck. Since close to 90% of your braking is done by front, and you lose one side, you don't have much left. Forcing the pedal harder to keep from shooting through the red light, at least one of the automatic systems kicked in. I don't recall sliding, so maybe it was not the ABS. But because I was having to input to steering to attempt keeping straight, it might have been the stability control. If that worked as written, then it would have been releasing the one good brake at front and the opposite cornered rear in an effort to right the vehicle. YES, even less braking. Would you accept "could not duplicate" just because it is intermittant? The pull when the caliper is sticking is toward oncoming traffic!
More in next post.

e_net_rider · August 2011

I would appreciate that much. VIN 1G4GE5GD0BF183398
It would be nice to have a list of all updates or changes.
And if you are able, show which ones are reported as having been done. I've dealt with a deal on the other end of some of my trips, and they said they put one in which I was unaware of. I am aware that my main dealer had been made aware of what might be a connected issue. But I don't know what the update was supposed to address specifically. And it might be connected to the fact that mine no longer cools well at startup.
Thank You.

crankeee · August 2011

Rider: You are the only poster with such a myriad of problems and your car is a CXS. The reason for my question is to isolate the problem with the key fob functions to cars with remote or keyless entry. Same as the engine problems; 3.0L, 3.6L, I-4 or all types. The software on the keyless entry setup is much different in that it does not require a physical action by the operator. When we put our 2010 CXL w/o the keyless entry to bed at night, it has stayed silent. we also use our cell phones within range but the OnStar/Bluetooth (shared system) does NOT activate or link to the phone.
consumers gave Ford a knock for their system being too complicated or distracting for a driver to use while operating the car.
Good luck with your effort to exchange your CXS another GM car. It may be more difficult than your Malibu turn in previously due to the new GM.

e_net_rider · August 2011

I'm sure there are differences with software/computer issues depending upon options.
The only distinction I am totally aware of is if you have the seat memory issue, GM says, if SBZA is installed, do not replace module. Re-program it.
But, I'd almost bet GM is not totally correct in that statement. They seem to be assuming that every vehicle with SBZA got a particular part number seat memory module because prior to that the answer was to change the module for a particular part number. Or the SBZA is in the seat module. Which then might make sense that my SBZA was broken when they were working on the seat issue.

crankeee · August 2011

rider: I know that they frequently piggyback or patch new or additional software onto existing well testd software. The quirks are stirred up when a new app affects an existing program that worked OK on it's own.

e_net_rider · August 2011

Are you talking about the programming in this vehicle or something else?
Such were the quirks of some of MS OS. To keep the size down, in some OS they relied heavily on DLL's within the OS for operability of other programs. And some of those programs needed different versions of the DLL to work. Often installing those programs overwrote they system DLL and broke other things. Neither was necessary since the new DLL could have been put in the folder with the program executable and worked fine, without disturbing the MS version. But even MS was constantly changing versions trying to create an all inclusive version, but that ususally meant larger files as well.
Once hardware got fast enough to satisfy the home user MS did away with that and protected the OS from having its versions of files replaced.
The big issue here seems to be lack of knowing what the OS is. If it was open license, we'd have much better than current issues. It seems GM has terrible programmers. And maybe terrible hardware. Many of GM fixes say to reprogram the module, that is whatever is failing. Not to do an update programming, but to reinstall the same crap. That can hardly be a fix for anything but another failure in time.

crankeee · August 2011

I was referring to the code that is programmed into the onboard computer(s) for the various functions like doors, A/C, keyless entry/start and other hardware controlled by the prom or flash memory. We have had to have a few prom items "reflashed" to reestablish the original code due to inoperability. On our 2010 CXL the only thing sofar is the bluetooth/Onstar system "forgot" my phone (secondary) but remebered the wife's (primary).
That's better than losing the transmission or A/C code or engine management. S___ happens esp. with software. The more complicated the more fragile IMO.
check today's recall for 2012 Lacross to reprogram brake module - that's what i was commenting on. I'm pleased that Gm catchs such things.

e_net_rider · August 2011

These days such is no longer rocket science. It is just computer. The days where hardware was pressed to the max are gone and trying to shortcut code so it does not overload the CPU and other hardware. For at least a decade, computers have reached the point they can automatically take off an airplane, fly it to its destination more efficiently than the pilot, and put it to within two feet of the ground. ( As I said, that was over a decade ago, so maybe they are now putting wheels on ground). Sorry butt excuses don't cut it when it comes to blaming the computer. Computers can be extremely reliable and if not, it is the idiot who put it together. GM.
What, they catch one occasionally?
What exactly was wrong? And what might they be reprogramming to? An update, or just putting the same back in because the system is not fault proof. (modern computers are)
If what you suggest were true in the world of aviation, they'd be falling out of the sky like a bunch of mosquitoes that just got sprayed. Excuses of this magnitude are not excuseable.

crankeee · August 2011

rider:
HMMMMM. Seems like we have morphed back to that perfect world again. Methinks that there are humans involved in writing, testing and installing the software that runs those awesome computers you refer to. My limited experience with the humans has demonstrated some predictable flaws.
good luck with returning your CXS to the new GM.

e_net_rider · August 2011

As I said, I'm tired of lame excuses.
So I thought I'd give you all a bit to think about. What might be an industry wide problem that is being ignored.
Systems involved, braking, specifically a sticking caliper on front. ABS, and ESC (electronic stability control).
Without those added electronics, if you had a sticking caliper, you just stopped the best you could considering road surface and tire traction and the ability of the other front caliper to stop you without loss of control.
Add ABS, one wheel not braking because of stuck caliper, the other doing the best it can being controlled by ABS if slipping occurs.
Add ESC, electronic stability control. Some are really stupid systems and do nothing but cut power. I think that could be called having your foot off accelerator and on brake. I would hope federal safety has killed that design.
Most are advanced to the point that they calculate steering angles and input and even use accelerometers. Along with controlling power to wheels, they will modulate the brakes and on corners to create corrective steering of the vehicle. Sounds really neat, right?
Think about what happens if you have a sticking caliper and the vehicle pulls/steers to one side because of that. (that would have happened without ESC).
But with ESC, say left front caliper sticks, no braking on that corner, and since nearly 90% of your braking is done on the front, you've lost 45% of your stopping power. Also vehicle will pull or veer to the right. ESC, in an effort to make corrective action would release the right front brake and apply left front brake, which is not working. Depending upon programming, it might realize that caliper is stuck since it never reaches the point where brake locks stopping the sensor from showing any motion, at which point the ABS would try to modulate, but again it is stuck. What happens in this scenario?
On the 09 Malibu, I felt modulating of brake, but continued to veer with very poor stopping, past where I should have been able to stop without ESC.
On this car, both times it stuck, it veered and since I had plenty of room, I released the pedal and reapplied. Absolutely no hint of corrective action and it worked when I reapplied, fortunately. I can only guess what would have happened if it was a must stop. Would it have stopped me in the shortest possible distance or tried to keep vehicle straight but take a much longer stopping distance?
If this was my only concern, I'd demand a new brake job, complete. Afterall, if this happened on one of my older vehicles I'd immediately do a thorough brake job.
Just because it is intermittant, it does not mean it is not happening, therefore ignore. That is much the position I got from the GM district rep today. Even being able to see the SBZA was not alerting until a vehicle was at the bumper, he denied anything being wrong. That made me light up like a July 4th display at his butt.
If it was just one intermittant problem or non safety related, I could probably work through it, but not this mess.
Still no reply on what portable HDD actually works.
Resolution: I'm sad but happy. My wife is elated.
The guy here who has been posting about they are built by humans, blagh, blagh. I heard the same exact thing today. More stuff I will accept when pigs fly.
I do really hope
GM is able to get its business together. Failure to recognize problems is failure to fix them!

e_net_rider · August 2011

Despite mistakes, it can be gotten done. Especially on computers where there is no worry of someone hacking. Excuses come too cheaply. It is not like there is a steep learning curve as in building the very first computer or creating a program language. All the heavy lifting has been done. GM just needed to bring in the expertise.
I hate to think this could be like GM's many early efforts to build an aluminum engine. I had one of those pieces of junk. 215 CI V8 used around 1962 in small Buicks and Olds. Not there only attempt either. They finally got smart enough to realize they had some problem that they could not get around so when they wanted one for the Corvette, they contracted with a company that had lots of experience with aluminum engines. I've heard it is a pretty good engine, but no personal experience. The company is Mercury Marine as in boat motors.
They may also have learned lesson with diesels. The last they built of cars with those I heard used an Allison in vehicles like the Cutlass Cierra. I heard they were good, or at least far better than the 350 conversion.
I am rambling and suddenly realize that maybe outsourcing is the problem with this car. China?
Just waiting for GM to do paperwork.
I really hate the idea of shopping again.

sociallisa · August 2011

Hi cooleydd - I do digital work for OnStar, and just wanted to share this story with you. A subscriber was going to cancel her OnStar because she never used it, but not canceling turned out to be a very good decision. Maybe it will help you with your decision. http://onstarconnections.com/2010/03/i-had-almost-decided-this-would-be-my-last-- year-of-this-coverage-barbara-gatewoode/

crankeee · August 2011

Lisa: I posted previously on this site that we had a similar experience. Our area was hit by some very serious tornadoes with the result being no phone service due to no power. Many cell providers were also out of service. We were most fortunate in the ordeal, but did not have power for 4-5 days. The old AT&T land lines with the low voltage setup did work if you had that system and a corded phone that did not need electricity to operate. Another neat surprise - OnStar also worked as it apparently was able to tag with any operating cell tower (some services had generators).
Great emergency plan backup service. We are senior citizens so the safe and sound package was cost effective with OnStar's help. Keep up the good work!

imidazol97 · August 2011

OnStar has an expense side but it had a very beneficial side for us as well. Our son was a field commander for the high school marching band. We had stopped by with lunch for him and he laid his keys in the rear armrest of our leSabre while he ate. We left and later he called saying his keys were in our backseat--he needed the electronic equipment for the band practice that had restarted and which he had locked in the trunk of the Cobalt.

We were at a cruise-in 25 miles away. My wife realized all we had to do was call OnStar to unlock the car for him so he could unlock the trunk and get to the electronics. 5 to 10 minutes later he had the equipment.

This summer he worked in downtown Columbus living in an apartment by himself near campus; that was 80 miles away. Because he could access the unlock feature for the Cobalt, I secreted a set of keys for the Cobalt, key for the apartment, and a spare cell phone (Tracfone) in the car. If he lost keys or locked himself out of the apartment or the car, all he needed was someone else's or his own cell phone to call OnSTar to unlock and get access to replacements for the keys.

gmcustsvc · August 2011

e_net_rider,
I'm sorry I am unable to get you a list of all updates and changes for your vehicle. My recommendation for your situation is to speak with your service adviser. I would recommend asking them to contact Technical Assistance. I am unable to diagnosis your vehicle via the internet; however, with your vehicle battery going dead, and the vehicle picking up your phone calls, it makes me think that something is staying on which is transferring your calls and killing your battery. Please keep me updated on your progress with this. If you would like we can set up a case with Customer Assistance for this concern. Please feel free to email me.
Christina
GM Customer Service

sociallisa · August 2011

Hi crankee,

We like to feature our subscriber stories on our blog. If you go over to http://onstarconnections.com/share-your-stories/ you can submit yours there, and it might be featured on the site!

navychief3 · August 2011

Caron, yes I have been working with GM customer service since January,2011.I guess what bothers me is that the dealership,working in conjunction with technical assistance,have never checked anything other than tires and wheels. If that did not solve the problem, why didn!t they check the drive train,struts,rotors,etc.,until they find the problem? This lets me know they don!t want to take the time to find the cause,which feels like out of balance tires, after reading my message you are responding to you can see what I have been going thru. Thanks for your concern,will you help me?

gmcustsvc · August 2011

navychief3,

Could you please email me your case number? I would like to look further into your situation.

You can get my email by clicking on gmcustsvc.

Thank you,
Caron, GM Customer Service

navychief3 · August 2011

Caron, is it alright to give you my case number on this website,or where should I go if not? You said gmcustsvc,where? John

e_net_rider · August 2011

Chief, I forgot which tires you have, but I've got the GY. Near 13K now. They had replaced one around 11K, because of vibration that turned out to be, as I suspected, a tire balance problem. It would have needed an excess of weights on RFB. It seemed to fix problem for a short time. I have been noticing vibration again, but difficult to figure where other than right side of vehicle. After hours of driving on hot road, any flat spots from sitting overnight should certainly have disappeared. I now know from the rythym that it is definitely a surface irregularity to at least one tire. I encountered smooth enough roads to distinguish that, and on some surfaces where symptom was slightly different, that is it would cycle through periods of vibration. This would indicate a synchrocity with another tire, at least as to balance, maybe not flatted.
The only good thing I can think of relating to these tires is they are sticky on dry surface, and sometimes related, a rubber that does not wear well. I shall measure tomorrow, but today noticed a tremendous amount of wear difference between the one they replace recently and others. Maybe 11K miles difference. Just guessing, I suspect these tires will be worn out by 20K miles.
Even if they changed all four tires, sometimes bad tires run in batches and you may have gotten one or more bad ones as replacements.
I hope they get you fixed.

e_net_rider · August 2011

Thanks for the thought. I have a case number, it is with buy back.

Kirstie_H · August 2011

Click on the highlighted "gmcustsvc" on the top of one of their posts. You'll then see their profile with email address. Send it that way - they'll want your contact info, and you don't want to be posting that stuff in a publicly-accessible forum.

navychief3 · August 2011

Ihave michelin 235-50/R18 energy savers. This is my 3rd set of tires and I only have 3900 miles on the car. You are right about being unable to balance some tires. The first two set of tires I had were michelins,but were Pilot's, not energy savers. The dealership had to try 8 michelin pilot's before they could get 4 to pass the road force balance. I thought I might have a bad chrome wheel or tire out of balance,5 trips back to the dealership for them to try different tires. Consumer Reports had an article about the new low sidewall tires(high performance tires,high speed), but the tires will cause a harsher ride. I still have the same problem from day one,vibration from 40mph and above,just feels like an out of balance tire/wheel,drives me crazy,my 2500HD drives better/smoother.Thanks for the encouragement, hope all works out for you. John

e_net_rider · August 2011

So many trips are discouraging. Trying to ones patience at a minimum. And really brings questions about GM. Are they finishing the building when it is in the owner's hands?
That is typical with customized aircraft. 1/3 down when ordered and there could be a backlog of over a year. Another 1/3 when it rolls from assembly. And final 1/3 after it flies, has all the quirks fixed, and then flies for certification. At that point you have a green airplane with no interior. So next is paying for an interior and paint job. And you may wait months before that starts and months to complete, followed by more flight testing. I don't know the payment method of that last part, but typically there are always things that break after awhile, service needed, and FAA rules to follow. Even though there may be substantial warranty work, it would be frustrating to me to have a 50 million + airplane unusable. Has GM made a model after their Gulfstreams?

e_net_rider · August 2011

I am correcting the number of times the caliper stuck or something with braking was wrong. I just found where I had experienced it last October as well. So as of this original post, it was three times, not twice.
I've said sticking caliper because that is how it acts. My mind finally included the EBCM, electronic brake control module, and how it functions.
That is, a failure in it, either the hardware connected to brake system or the electronic controller, could fail to send pressure to a caliper giving the sensation of a stuck caliper.
Also the ESC, electronic stability control, if it messes up and gives an output to the brake system for corrective steer, you'd see the same symptom.
Is this vehicle yet another victim of voltage spikes that was damaging EBCM?
Does this vehicle need the same diodes added to 95 and up Aurora and some 09 Malibu? Likely other years as well?

e_net_rider · August 2011

Those still reading, I thought I'd mention something and perhaps someone can come up with an answer to verifying.
Some time back there were a few in the forum that posted as if this was the best auto on the planet. One poster that was complaining about the negativity of my posts which were problems I am experiencing sniped back using an unusual phrase. I noticed it but thought maybe that was just the way people speak in his locale.
Guess what, I heard it a second time. The district GM rep who was riding in my vehicle with me used it. Coincidence? Mind you I had never heard it before and have travelled a bit and met people from all across this country during my stint in the Marine Corps. To me, that narrows the liklihood of coincidence a lot.

And where are all those who were singing praises to high heaven in the past? Did they just stop showing up? Not many new ones either.
It certainly poses a question in my mind. Were they among the crowd that was on extended leave from GM and trying to feather their nests?

It would be nice if there was some way to "verify" ownership of a vehicle, so we at least know what we are dealing with.
Good Luck to all owners. I likely will not be around as often because this one will be leaving my position in the near future. It was just too many problems.

rainman5542 · August 2011

I suspect that many posters stopped coming here because:

1. The newness wore off and there are no issues or questions. They have all been resolved or answered.
2. Help from GM Service Exec is limited to referral back to a dealer or 800 line. They don't champion your cause or get action. Its a bureaucratic role and an ineffective one at that.
3. Some posters are drama queens who have everything go wrong.
4. These posts are boring after a while if its not your car.

My 2010 CXS now has 13 months of use and 10,300 miles on it. It is a gvery good trouble free car. My prior car was a 2009 Mercedes E350 4matic and I don't ever find myself nostalgic. If you hate yours, sell it.

2010-2011 Buick LaCrosse

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