Chrysler Allies With Fiat

gagrice · November 2009

That's a good thing. I still am stinging from all the repair bills on the Fiat Spyder I bought my son while he was in HS. A cool looking little car that was horribly engineered. I wonder how Chrysler is making out with the GEM car they build. The big fat tax credit has to be moving their little NEVs by the 1000s.

http://www.gemcar.com/

iluvmysephia1 · November 2009

that I had not yet heard of. Their brochure is well-thought out and presents the little cars in a good light. The e2 would be the one I would pick to drive around Willcox in. A little 2-seater with a top speed of 35mph and a range of "up to 30 miles."

Perfect. It would fit our pocked-up streets just fine. Actually, the City of Willcox is finally paving over the potholes of one of the north-south streets right by our home. They've done the curb-outs on the intersections and then dispappeared to some other project for now, the whole street needs to be re-paved when they get back. I can't wait-it's like running over little logs strewn about the street in order to navigate some of the streets in this town.

One of these electric carts would bump right over them easier, though.

gagrice · November 2009

The GEM car NEVs may be the oldest. It looks like Daimler bought them in 2000.

Over eleven years ago, Global Electric Motorcars introduced its first electric vehicle, and today, still strives to design the most innovative line of vehicles that are versatile, efficient and affordable. With more than 40,000 vehicles on the road, we pride ourselves in manufacturing the world's best electric vehicle.

http://www.gemcar.com/models/details.asp?MID=3&ID=309

I like the eS with a box on back for shopping. There are also companies that offer power upgrades to kick them up to about 40 MPH. I don't think I would want one any faster than that. Here is a company that has the upgrades for the GEM Cars. Steve posted it somewhere before.

http://www.gonev.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1

These GEM cars are sold by Chrysler dealers here in San Diego. This is where you will find them in AZ.

http://www.hornergroup.com/

Better hurry the tax credit may end Dec 31st 2009.

iluvmysephia1 · November 2009

yeah, I'm thinkin' on it. I have to decide if it'll cost me more money or save me any money to get one of these little pups or just drive the Lancer GTS around Willcox. It seems to be almost like an extra toy at this point.

Why not drive the Lancer GTS until BYD's e6 comes out in 2011 sometime, then I can take it further on down the road, to Tucson, and still have more than enough charge to get back home to Willcox.

berri · November 2009

You can have the NEV, I'll take the Italian baby dolls in the pix!

gagrice · November 2009

I am looking at what the used GEM Cars are selling for. They really seem to hold their value well. I would bet you could buy one with the big tax credit and drive it 2 years. When the real EVs become available sell the NEV for just about what you have invested. Here is an 8 year old one for $7500. That is crazy. Probably wants to buy new with the Tax Credit.

http://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/cto/1450048141.html

kernick · November 2009

Not going to be driving a Chrysler EV anytime soon.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2009/11/620001133/1

iluvmysephia1 · November 2009

yeah I noticed 'em, too! Whewee!

stever · December 2009

A different look from a car company. Bunch of big names riding around in the Chrysler 300 in the commercial.

Chrysler Gets Political (AutoObserver)

kernick · December 2009

I think it would have been more appropriate if Chrysler had revived a Dodge Diplomat for that commercial. Or maybe a Chrysler Concorde?

A 300, makes me think that's the type of car they'll use in the remake of The Big Lubowski.

stephen987 · December 2009

Good one, kernick. Perhaps a Honda Accord (or Civic)? A GMC Envoy?

stever · December 2009

"The Chapter 11 bankruptcy reorganization plan filed Tuesday by the company comprised of the remnants of the former Chrysler, Old Carco LLC, effectively leaves the U.S. taxpayer on the hook for about $4 billion loaned to the company through the U.S. Department of Treasury's infamous Troubled Assets Relief Program, Reuters reported."

It's (Mostly) Official: $4 Billion of Chrysler TARP Loans a Writeoff (AutoObserver)

Good background story at the Detroit News today:

Rattner on GM, Chrysler turnaround plans: 'They were delusional'

stephen987 · December 2009

There was very little equity in place, so no way out. The "loans" were destined to be a writeoff from day one. Fiat basically got the salvage rights, and the taxpayers got to spend a few billion to keep a few thousand workers working for a few more months.

GM, on the other hand, appears to be paying back the TARP money. Whether they'll eventually be able to launch the IPO necessary to redeem the equity stake that the taxpayers hold is another matter.

deltheking · December 2009

Waste of tax money.I guess everyone knew that. I think even the customers are at fault here by still buying Chrysler cars. If they stop buying,automatically they will have to shut down. :sick:
Now they will promise a recovery which of course will never ever happen.

kernick · December 2009

Well the U.S. taxpayer could get a little of its $ back, if we retook control and sold off the few good parts of Chrysler like Jeep, the Ram truck, and the Viper factory. I'm not sure if the Charger ( alot of police sales) and Challenger sell enough to be profitable. maybe they could get close to $1B total for the factories, parts, and brands? Shut down the rest, and liquidate whatever's left.

Tell Fiat if they want to sell cars here they can give some of the ex-Chrysler dealers a new sign and to wait for the Fiats to be shipped here.

kernick · December 2009

This is still up on Cerberus's website.

http://www.cerberuscapital.com/news_press_release_07132007.html

Most amusing are the statements from:

Dr. Dieter Zetsche, Chairman of the Board of Management of DaimlerChrysler AG and Head of the Mercedes Car Group: "We're confident that we've found the solution that will create the greatest overall value - both for Daimler and Chrysler. With this transaction, we have created the right conditions for a new start for Chrysler and Daimler."

Ron Gettelfinger, President of the United Autoworkers (UAW): "The transaction with Cerberus is in the best interests of our UAW members, the Chrysler Group and Daimler. We are pleased that this decision has been made, because our members and the management can now focus entirely on the development and manufacture of quality products for the future of the Chrysler Group."

John W. Snow, Chairman of Cerberus Capital Management, L.P.: "We welcome Chrysler into the Cerberus family of companies and believe Cerberus will be a good home for Chrysler. Cerberus believes in the inherent strength of U.S. manufacturing and of the U.S. auto industry. Most importantly, we believe in Chrysler."

Snow continued: "We would like to thank DaimlerChrysler for their good stewardship of this American icon over the last decade. We are aware that Chrysler faces significant challenges, but we are confident that they can and will be overcome. A private investment firm like Cerberus will provide management with the opportunity to focus on their long-term plans rather than the pressures of short-term earnings expectations."

IDIOTS and FOOLS are leading us!!!

kernick · December 2009

"Founded in 1992, Cerberus currently has significant investments in more than 50 companies that, in aggregate, generate more than $60 billion in annual revenues worldwide."

Why was it that the U.S. government didn't require Cerberus to use its other revenues to make up for Chrysler's losses? Hmm? Why did TARP give them $4B instead of Cerberus? Maybe someone wrote a law that said Cerberus could just walk away? - how convenient! :mad:

fintail · December 2009

Former VP involved with Cerberus...maybe it's no coincidence :shades:

gagrice · December 2009

Didn't Cerberus keep control of GMAC? They were given TARP money with the other lenders. On the other hand, did not the government discount the Cerberus ownership in favor of the UAW and Fiat? I don't think if I was on the board of Cerberus I would have thrown good money after bad with Chrysler. You buy a company and it goes broke, you sell off the pieces and take your losses. Unless the Feds poke their noses into your business, then it becomes a bigger mess. I don't see Cerberus as the bad guys in the Chrysler demise. Chrysler was on the ropes when they bought it in 2007. The economy just provided the knockout punch.

And Yes Dan Quayle is a player in the Cerberus conglomerate.

kernick · December 2009

Unless the Feds poke their noses into your business, then it becomes a bigger mess. I don't see Cerberus as the bad guys in the Chrysler demise.

Yes the feds stuck their noses into Chrysler either unwillingly (if you believe your Congressmen when they know they're being taped), or willingly - help their wealthy friends and donors in Cerberus.

The problem with Cerberus is that they knew they screwed up buying Chrysler, and were using corporate law to limit their losses, thus sticking the U.S. taxpayer with the bill if they thought it important to keep Chrysler going.

This is like living in a neighborhood of 2nd homes, and some of the owners saying we made a mistake buying this, we're not going to keep our property, and you and the other decent neighbors saying "Don't worry we'll pick up the bill for you".

That's my problem with this whole thing.

kernick · February 2010

C'mon pro-bailout folks, why didn't you post this news?

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20100208/D9DO9UI02.html

Aren't you proud new jobs are being created, by the U.S. taxpayer having footed the majority of the bailout? This is super news.

I'm sure Fiat will close many of the aged factories with UAW work-force making cars like the Sebring, and create many new jobs in low-cost countries, or simply make the vehicles in ol' Italia.

hpmctorque · February 2010

Fiat will introduce a new 2 cylinder "MultiAir" engine for its smallest cars that'll produce up to 120 hp. It'll be displayed at the Geneva Auto Show. I wonder whether it'll be available for the 500 model that's coming here.

british_rover · February 2010

Can I have that engine in a midsized sport cruiser, sport tourer or naked bike please?

hpmctorque · February 2010

Well, I can see why it would only appeal to a small (pun intended) niche market with gas at $3, but at $6+, like it is in some European countries, it would draw more interest, don't you think?

kernick · March 2010

that not only did our government bailout Cerberus by taking Chrysler off their hands, and giving it to Fiat for free, but they are still helping Cerberus in other ways. I guess it pays to have a former VP, and other political friends in the executive offices. :mad:

But that's not the worst of it. Thanks to Treasury's decision to avoid a comprehensive restructuring of the company, pre-bailout shareholders in GMAC -- including private equity firm Cerberus -- could still profit on their investments, the report said.

And while the costs are mounting, the panel, chaired by Harvard law professor Elizabeth Warren, said it remains unclear what Treasury accomplished by shielding GMAC from bankruptcy.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/03/11/news/companies/gmac.zombie.fortune/index.htm?sou- rce=cnn_bin&hpt=Sbin

dtownfb · March 2010

I can't wait to read your posts after Chrysler fails later this year :shades: (IMHO)

kernick · March 2010

Well if Chrysler could drag down Mercedes, I'm sure they'll have no trouble dragging down Fiat; if the U.S. government withdraws the mammary.

stever · May 2011

"Chrysler Group LLC reported its first quarterly net profit since the company emerged from Chapter 11 bankruptcy two years ago and became part of Italian automaker Fiat. "Chrysler Group's improved sales and financial performance in the first quarter show that our rejuvenated product lineup is gaining momentum in the marketplace and resonating with customers," said Chrysler/Fiat CEO Sergio Marchionne (left) in a statement Monday."

Chrysler Making Money (AutoObserver)

hpmctorque · May 2011

That's encouraging, but I think we'll have to wait until the next generation of Chrysler's mid-size cars, the Chrysler 200 and Dodge Avenger, are reveived to know whether the company will stick around for the long term. I expect that those models, which will be based on Fiat platforms, will be renamed. Who knows, maybe people will be bored with Camrys and Accords by then (end of 2012?), and will be ready to try somthing different.

hpmctorque · May 2011

While I believe that replacing the Chrysler 200 and Dodge Avenger with new models that are truly competitive with Accord, Camry, Sonata, Malibu and Fusion is essential to Chrysler's long term-prospects in North America, I think that Fiat-Chrysler's biggest long-term opportunity rests with its Jeep brand. Jeep has world-wide recognition, yet its potential market share outside North America is far greater than its current sales. Plans call for a diesel powered Wrangler for Europe, with stop-start, to make fuel economy more acceptable to Europeans. Next, a smaller Wrangler, built on a Fiat platform, in Mexico, will be introduced in Europe, and North and Latin America. That smaller SUV could significantly increase Jeep sales worldwide, especially if sales are eventually expanded to Asia and Africa.

stever · May 2011

True, people love their Jeeps even with all the problems. Wonder if a little Suzuki Samurai clone subcompact Jeep with high mpg would sell? Could even make it FWD. Good idea, base it off the 500 and get people into the brand, and then upsell them Grand Cherokees in a few years. Sergio needs to call you.

motorcity6 · May 2011

$19,000 for another "Fix it again, Tony", 101hp, and blows the doors off of a Smart Fortwo..Our tax dollars got us some more junk...7 air bags, so it blows up when it hits another object???

Gas mileage-38mpg, 0-60 couple hours, and 1/4 mile, sometime in the future..

Reference a recent road test in C&D...Kinda funny, hell, the Italians were running around in these mouse traps back when I was cruising the Autobans during 1957-1959 in my Porsche 1600Super..Porsche has come a long way, however Fiat dropped the ball, and now we are picking up the fare$$$..

There is a new Fiat dealer in Sarasota, Fl...Hooray!!!!! I wonder if the 500 takes a siesta every afternoon...

amersport · May 2011

These comments appear more grounded in racism, than truly thoughtful (and accurate) statements about the new auto on American door steps. 'America' will likely make money off of this deal as they already did with GM. The Fiat 500 will have the opportunity to capitalize on Americans thirsty habits for roadways at an affordable price. The fact remains that the car is well times for our mini-Depression era that could last for years to come, and the ever increasing price of oil. The 500 has already been tested in Europe for a few years so reliability, a valid concern, should be excellent. My money is on Fiat given the "new normal" of economics that won't change soon. Demand for small inexpensive cars will far surpass those of elite lines. Mini is shaking in their boots over lost market share to the new 500. As they should. Their reliability is consistently at the bottom. Fiat, with a fresh new look and significantly lower price is where my bet for success would go in today's 'new normal'.

gagrice · May 2011

So tell US, why is FIAT opening their own franchises instead of adding it to the Chrysler dealers. Makes No sense whatsoever.

Just for the Record we are a LONG ways from getting back the Billions we gave GM. I do not expect to ever see anything from the new Fiat/Chrysler venture. You must have heard the politicos claiming how great GM was doing and how they were paying US back.

GM still owes $45.3 billion to the U.S. and $8.1 billion to Canada, money it received in exchange for large stakes in the company. The U.S. government now owns 61 percent of the company and Canada owns roughly 12 percent. GM plans to repay both with a public stock offering, perhaps later this year.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/04/21/business/main6417161.shtml#ixzz1NVH1cz- - Lv

WASHINGTON (AP) - The Treasury Department says it has received $11.7 billion from the sale of 358.5 million shares of General Motors stock.

If my calculator is working correctly that leaves $41.7 BILLION still owed to the US tax payers. Don't forget the $4 billion we gave GM to develop the Volt. I know just chump change. GM sold 1703 Volt cars as of the end of April. Cost to US tax payer about $2.4 million each.

stever · May 2011

You know this is a Chrysler discussion and this has been all over the news "Chrysler Repays $7.6 Billion Debt Six Years Early". (Straightline)

Can't say I know why they are going with new Fiat dealers unless they think it'll help the brand. They already had a go at cutting underperforming Chrysler dealers via the bankruptcy.

gagrice · May 2011

That looks good for Chrysler. Will they get their act together so they can sell more cars and less gas guzzling trucks. That has to cost them in CAFE fines. I still don't understand why the Chrysler dealers are not selling the 500. We have none in San Diego county

stever · May 2011

Higher demand for the SUVs is what I hear. And that's what's saved their bacon.

"Chrysler has certainly made progress from last years first quarter, noted Edmunds.com Analyst Ivan Drury. Sales are up 22.5 percent, and brand awareness is up. Many redesigned vehicles are in Chrysler showrooms and incentives are down. However, Drury pointed out that Chrysler still depends heavily on the sale of very large cars and trucks. This could hinder its progress in the upcoming months as fuel costs escalate," he said."

Chrysler Making Money (AutoObserver)

gagrice · May 2011

It all points to Chrysler needing a good small car to sell. Very strange marketing.

stever · May 2011

All sorts of theories out there in briefly skimming the net.

Sergio wants the ~600 Fiat dealers to have the same cachet as MINIs (didn't see the number of how many MINI dealers there are).

He wants new facilities with an Italian flavor (to ultimately sell six different models, at least in the first 3 or 4 years).

He wants to get Fiat established and then dump Chrysler (I don't think so - not the way that Jeep is selling).

Interesting rumor is that Chrysler dealers who agree to build new Fiat dealerships will get to sell Alfa Romeos in the Chrysler showroom.

The San Diego Fiat dealership was awarded to someone by the name of Joe C. Gardon.

hpmctorque · May 2011

Correction: The U.S. government and taxpayers lost a pile of money on GM. The government would have had to sell its GM stock at 51 to break even, but sold the majority at about 33.

I agree with the other points you made.

stever · May 2011

Guess everyone saw this coming.

"Italy's Fiat SpA said on Friday it plans to exercise its option in the next 10 days to buy the U.S. Treasury's 6% stake in Chrysler Group LLC, giving it majority control of the Auburn Hills, Mich., auto maker."

Fiat Would Acquire Majority Control of Chrysler in Days (WSJ)

Gonna be some out of work managers soon.

gagrice · May 2011

Fiat needs to be careful. Those running Chrysler right now, seem to have a good grip on what sells. I think if they want to put forth an Italian flavor to selling their cars, they should just give a years supply of Pizza with each new 500 they sell. And put them in every Chrysler dealership. The idea of being like Mini is not a good plan. I know a lady here that did not replace her Mini when the engine went out at 175k miles because the dealer is too far away. She bought a Scion xD. Which she says is ok just not as much fun as the Mini. They wanted $7k to rebuild the engine. She did not think the car was worth that much with that many miles on it. She was tired of driving 50 miles for service which she could only get at the dealership.

nippononly · May 2011

That's the problem! there is a big Chrysler dealer not 15 miles from me, but did they get a Fiat franchise? Nope, probably because they weren't willing to meet the condition of ponying up to build a stand-alone Fiat showroom.

So for service I would have to go 40 miles each way to the nearest suburban dealer, or go to downtown SF, which is less than half the distance but would probably actually take longer to reach because the suburban dealer is all-freeway to get to.

Either way, too far to go. And the same applies to Mini for me too - the dealers in both places are almost next door to each other, even though I have both BMW and Chrysler dealers much closer to me than either.

gagrice · June 2011

iluvmysephia1 · June 2011

yo, is the Dodge Hornet totally toast, or is there some dark corner of the world where someone is looking at pictures of this car and wondering, what could have been? What might have been?

Dodge Hornet

Dodge was working with China's Chery Motors long ago and far away on it and everything just went...poof!

Is this the new Dodge Caliber based on the Alfa Romeo Giulietta? Or will Seattle once again be a haven for NBA basketball? Will the Oklahoma City Thunder fail to make the playoffs next year, too? So many questions with so few available answers.

robr2 · June 2011

Google Dodge Hornet Spy Shots and you'll see some recent photos of an Alfa Giulietta being tested in the US that may become the Hornet.

gagrice · June 2011

You're right. I like Iluv's Hornet better than the Alfa G knock-off.

kyfdx · June 2011

I think I'll take the Alfa...

halsworthy · June 2011

Alfa Romeo Giulietta

Me too, I'd take the Alfa any day of the week

robr2 · June 2011

I think the plan is to offer us both. The Alfa will be sold under that brand at a mid 30 price point and the Hornet at a better price point.

Chrysler Allies With Fiat

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