Toyota 4Runner

mapleleave · September 2003

Interesting post by some regarding the pricing of Aviator closing to a 4 runner. I think if you are planning to lease the vehicle, therefore no need to worry too much about resale, It is a good idea to go with Aviator if the lease price is about the same.

With a Ford Lease, you might be able to get some kind of loyoalty lease next time around. Plus, it is just much more luxury to drive a Aviator regardless how good Toyota quality is.

mm3051 · September 2003

Had the same concern about the seat lumbar and elevation under the thighs. Presented the problem to my local upholstery shop and was told he can solve it very easily by in-filling/building up those areas to our satisfaction. Cost would be minimal.

nick4597 · September 2003

mm3051 -

I am interested in doing the same thing you are. Let me know if you get it done and how much higher the cushion is raised (and if it looks funky). These 45 minute commutes to and from work are killer on my leg, otherwise love the truck!

mrwhipple · September 2003

Is the ball mount included with the hitch plate or a separate purchase?

How do you reset the maintenance light on the dash after an oil change?

thanks

alfster1 · September 2003

Ah, I see. That makes sense.

Here's a question. Has anyone out there used a product additive called "104+" or something similar? It supposedly increases octane to 104 and above.

kbhockey · September 2003

03 V6 4x4 SE
3800m

Took it to the dealer-they milled the front rotors/pads. Dealer said "they see this alot in SUVs". This is a very hilly area, but I'm still a bit unhappy since the truck only had 3800m -and my driving style is very sedate.

P.S. yes the ball is included with the truck-

rensho · September 2003

This can be prevented by your driving style.
warpage is caused by pads clamping on a hot rotor. When you come down a hill, after being on the brakes, and have to come to a full stop, the brakes are hot and we sit there and hold the brakes so the vehicle doesn't roll. Change this action to while you are stopped, let the car roll ~2', hold for a few seconds, roll another 2', repeat. This allows the pads to clamp to a different area of the rotor. Remember, the rotor is hot, the pads are cooler. When clamped, the pads cool that section of the rotor, while the other part of the rotor is still HOT. That causes warping.
Sucks that you have to consider doing this, but that is the physics of it all.

This was pointed out to me by being at the track and instructors warning folks to make sure when they come off the track, that they don't use their parking brakes, rather leave the car in 1st gear to keep it from rolling while parked.

yomols · September 2003

Nick, I went with a light grey that matched the interior panels but the installer had 50 to 75 color samples including probably 5 or 6 greys. Obviously, go with the one you like. Don't know about adding padding. Good luck.

jbhnc · September 2003

Hi all,

  I have a 03 4runner. I was thinking about buying a hidden hitch tubular hitch to replace the factory. Will this give sufficient room in front of the spare tire to insert normal tongues (ie seems like most everything is too long behind the pin hole and hits the spare.)

  Thanks,

  J

kbhockey · September 2003

thanks for the tip, i'll try it. 2.5 tons sure does roll well, so seems like im braking all the time-

great truck, really enjoying it. smooth, quiet, great handling (XREAS).

rogers12 · September 2003

"Remember, the rotor is hot, the pads are cooler. When clamped, the pads cool that section of the rotor, while the other part of the rotor is still HOT. That causes warping."

I think you are mistaken about this aspect of the rotor warping problem, although the recommendations you stated for preventing warpage are sound.

The pads get much hotter than the rotors from the friction of stopping and the added heat transferred to the rotors from the pads causes the warping. Warping is not caused by cooling of the hot rotors by the pads. The rotors cool the pads and then give the heat off to the air, thus the ventilated design of many rotors. The pad are surrounded by the calipers and the rotors and cannot dissipate heat to the air efficiently.

The high temperature of the pads is the reason for the large variety of brake pad materials. Note that although the pads are manufactured from many heat-resistant materials (asbestos, etc), the brake rotors are almost always made of steel. This gives you an idea of the critical nature of the temperature requirements of brake pads.

Here is a table of typical brake pad operating temperatures.

Brand Operating Temp F
Raybestos M19 800-1380
Hardie-Ferodo 1103 800-1380
Mintex 121 660-930
Hardie Ferodo DS11 840-1130
Hardie Ferodo DP11 840-1130
Hardie Ferodo Premium710-975
Mintex 171 750-1020

corancher · September 2003

Stopped by a dealer the other day to see what was different about the heavier-duty hitches supplied with the V8 models that were produced late in the '03 model year. I don't think this has been described much, so I'll summarize what I saw.

The newer hitch bolts into the center of the rearmost frame crossmember (approximately like the older one did) but the receiver is also welded to two round tubes that curve around the rear of the spare. These tubes are then welded to (mostly) flat triangular plates that bolt to the bottom of the fore-aft main frame rails. 4 bolts are used per side.

The newer hitch receiver seems to sit slightly lower, and perhaps more to the rear. This may allow longer ball mounts to be used without contacting the spare. If the interference with a spare is small (with either hitch type) it may be possible to crank the spare down slightly and shift it forward.

It appears that this hitch could easily be retrofitted to V6 or earlier V8 4Runners. My V6 has the threaded inserts in the frame rails already installed. Perhaps this is the hitch kit that some folks have mentioned as available in Canada.

BTW, I think the 4Runners normally come with the ball mount (the part that fits in the receiver and has a tab with a hole welded to it to mount the ball) but not the ball itself. Distributors and/or dealers in some regions may add balls to this kit.

mgabel2 · September 2003

Been thinking about the 04 Highlander, but my son loves his 4Runner. I was attracted to the HL's car-like drive. Still am. I could give up some of that with the 4Runner to get the off-road capability, but I'd at most drive on real "junky" roads only now and then. That option, though, is intriguing to me.

So, for everyday riding, will I always think I'm driving a truck (whatever that means)? I'd be getting the 4WD V6 Sport (with X-REAS).

kbhockey · September 2003

I have the v6 SE 4wd, and previous to this drove an integra GS-R (still do, actually)

-the 4runner drives wonderfully for a 2.5ton truck
-handling is much improved with the XREAS with a little loss in ride quality
-you can't defy physics, it's still a truck. I mean this in a good way, but you cannot expect to whip this truck around a corner like (a GS-R, for ex) but it certainly does not drive at all like 'a truck'

certainly is more destinctive than a highlander, IMO, and certainly more capable off road or in severe winter conditions

ray_c · September 2003

Isn't this great!

http://www.toyota.com/html/shop/trac/

qualityman · September 2003

My local dealer performed the TSB NV003 work and the rattles have stopped.

mgabel2 · September 2003

Thanks kbhockey. I've actually never driven a "truck" - and I will, of course, but, for example, can one "zip" into traffic or drive for three hours without feeling like you are dragging this big thing along with your or without feeling bumped/jerked around. I've been driving an 89 Camry and I just don't (I think) want to enter a new universe.

metmdx · September 2003

Sounds great, however not all dealers participate and don't necessarily rent every type of vehicle.
I asked at my local dealer and they don't rent 4Runners (bummer).
metmdx

alfster1 · September 2003

The 4Runner is very easy to drive, espcially with XREAS installed. It handles highway expansion joints, rough roads, and curves very well. It is a very stable and comfortable over long distances, thanks to the well designed seats. I was never an SUV kind of guy, but my 4Runner has made me a believer.

rensho · September 2003

doesn't drive like a car IMHO.
I drive a gti, miata, jeep, nissan pickup, pathfinder, rx300.

It rides nicely, but still trucklike.

carlike is more Highlander and rx.

rensho · September 2003

I do ask: have you ever touched hot esbestos? Have you ever touched hot iron? One stays hot longer, i.e. much better heat sink.

The pad cools down more quickly, or the rotor does? There isn't much in this world that cools down slower than 30lbs of iron shaped like a donut.
You are right in that pads get hot, and faster than rotors do. Pads cool down so much faster, as well as they don't have enough mass to 'sink' much heat. Where the rotors are huge sinks and can source much heat.
Bottom line, we agree that either way, don't clamp the pads on the rotor after both are hot and leave them there for any length of time.
Happy trails.

nick4597 · September 2003

FYI -

Was talking to a few people about the lack of cushioning for tall people who need more leg support. I brought my 4Runner into a local car upholstery shop recommended by my dealership and they were able to raise the front seat cushion substantially. Cost around $200 (they had to add some material towards the bottom of the seat). For those taller drivers looking to relieve their legs while driving it's something great to look into. I'm 6'2 and im 100% comfortable in my 4Runner now.

rogers12 · September 2003

In an indirect answer to your rhetorical question: The pads cool down more quickly because of their lower heat capacity and their higher initial temperature, but they never get colder than the rotors. Since they start out hotter and stay in thermal contact with the rotors, they can never get colder. 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.
Cheers

tangman · September 2003

Hi:

I have heard that the interior fabric for the 04 Sport has changed (noted on toyota's website. Has anyone seen the 04 interior fabric and can tell me if it is is just slighly lighter than the 03 charcoal yet the same fabric, but darker than the gray in the SR5.

Does Edmund's invoice numbers include TDA? Or does one add TDA to it to compare with the actual dealer invoice. I am negotiating an 04 build order for $100 over invoice but the dealer's invoice is higher than Edmunds by roughly the TDA figure ($400). I searched through the message threads but most don't clarify if TDA is included. Also, any comments on if this is reasonble for an 04 would be appreciated. I am looking for a Titanium Sport V8 4x4 in the pacific northwest and can not find one, so pursing an order (if you know of one, let me know). Thanks in advance.

alfster1 · September 2003

I agree. The highlander and RX300 are much more carlike. I wrote "4Runner Car Like" in the Title Box to refer to a previous listing.

For a Truck based SUV, the 4Runner is pretty easy to handle.

kbhockey · September 2003

Well it's a very easy ride on the highway, IMO. 11hours in the saddle to outer banks and felt ok, good support and comfort (relatively speaking). Remember, my previous ride was an integra GS-R, so i bobbled and bounced over every strip, ripple, pothole--

and it's not 'truckish'-i had a 89 Jimmy 4x4-that was definitely more 'truckish'-i.e. doesn't handle well, doesn't stop well, etc

take a test drive, or better yet, rent one for the weekend through the program they now offer.

happy test drives-

stever · September 2003

"Since ad fees, and other legitimate additional expenses listed on the invoice, are charged on a regional basis, it is difficult to collect and post all this information." link.

As always, don't get too hung up on the line by line items. Focus instead on your out the door price.

Steve, Host

om73mln · September 2003

I recently purchased a horse and needed to trade my 2003 VW Passat GLX for a Toyota 4Runner. After doing my research on Edmunds, I visited two dealerships. The difference was incredible. At Toyota of Dallas they had a 2004 SR5 model with leather, moonroof, etc. MSRP 31,237. They offered to trade for my 2003 Passat plus $8,000 difference. At Toyota of Plano they showed me a closeout model 2003 SR5 with leather but no moonroof. MSRP 29,827. They wanted my trade-in plus $14,500 difference for the older model with fewer options. To make matters worse, when I said no thanks and asked for the keys to my car to leave, they refused to give them back to me, and were highly offended that I didn't want to negotiate with them any further. Talk about high pressure. Frankly, it was the worst experience with a dealership that I have had in my 30 years of trading cars. Needless to say, I prefer Toyota of Dallas.

wilky · September 2003

I have an 03 Limited that has 4600 miles on it. While stopped at traffic lights or in traffic I can often feel a 'stutter' if you will that vibrates the car slightly. I try and watch the RPMs but they don't seem to move (or at least by the time I look down at the gauge it is back to normal). Has anybody else had this problem? I don't want them to adjust the idle as I already find that I have to keep my foot hard on the brake to keep the car from moving at all when at a stop light. Adjusting the idle would make the brake require more pressure. Any ideas?? Thanks for the help.

whitney8 · September 2003

Tangman,
re: seats - I recommend adding after market leather, it cost me $1026 from "Classic Soft Trim" Renton, WA. If you finance it, it is very painless ;-) Color selection: I have a Galactic Gray V8 Sport, so I went with a dark charcoal, (won't show pen marks) Looks and feels GREAT. I didn't want to pay an extra $6k for the LTD to get the power, heated, leather seats, so this was a good option for me.

ALSO, $100 over invoice sounds great. I had two very different dealer expirences:
I had done all my test driving and knew exactly what I wanted, and what I wanted to pay.

1) Kirkland Toyota was a joke, they started with a price that was about 10% over invoice, and were not open to negotiating. Kept bringing in different "sales managers", they were very high pressure. Not fun.
2) Then I got a tip to talk to Toy of Puallup. I did almost the whole deal over the phone. They had no problem talking prices on the phone, which was nice. At the time (FEB) the gray V8 Sport was very hard to find. They found 2 and I had them bring one up from OR. I got a good trade in for my Toyota truck, and the whole deal was complete with very minimal time at the dealership.

TIP for future buyers: Do not let them know you have a trade in, until you have agreed on a sale price. AND NEVER, NEVER, give them you keys while you are negotiating. (I waited until the end, then I went with the sales guy, while he test drove my truck.
If you go to Puallup, tell them I sent you.

This board is great, it helped me mucho when I was buying.
Hope this helps you!
Whitney

elion_84 · September 2003

This must be a common problem. I took my V8 Sport in to the dealer because of vibration when breaking and they are replacing the front rotors. My car had only 8K miles on it and I don't drive it very hard. This is way to early to have issues with the break system. None of the other cars I've owned had this problem, not event the Integra which I drove very hard.

Is Toyota quality slipping?

kheintz1 · September 2003

I too feel that my new 2003, V8 4Runner Limited seems to idle rather fast, even when fully warmed-up. Although I don't have to keep my foot pressed "hard" against the brake pedal in order to remain stationary, I definitely need to apply more brake pedal pressure than is usual with other vehicles. In fact, yesterday my dealer's shop evaluated my truck for this concern, and they said that everything checked out fine when they ran diagnostic scans, etc. I still don't think the idle is right, and plan to discuss this further with my service shop. That is, I'll want to know if they can decrease the idle speed without causing any problems. At any rate, I've noticed that my truck's RPMs (when fully warmed-up) are ranging between about 400-600 when in drive and the brakes are applied; this variation in RPMs appears to be due to normal cycling of the air conditioner's compressor.

Would like to know if any others are having this problem, etc. Thanks. KH

skipjakk · September 2003

I have also noticed that my 4Runner vibrates quite a bit when I'm at idle. I'm not sure if its because it idles high in drive or not, but I've noticed when I shift to neutral or park the excessive vibration disapears. If anybody has experienced the same problem and has taken it into a dealer for a look, post your results.

oscarz2 · September 2003

Just got an 03 (build date 6-03) and love it; however, I need some feedback on the following issues:

ABS system-
The system goes thru a "self-check/Diagnosis" upon startup with the buzz/vibration feel in the brake pedal and I realize it's normal, my other car did the same thing. But...on this 4runner, it re-occurs seemingly at random as I drive around (irregardless of speed). I could be in reverse or in a drive-thru or coming to a stop sign and I randomly get the electronic buzz/vibration in the brake pedal. Are all 03 4runners doing this or is mine a quirk?

Steering wobble/shimmy-
I get this (although it's not severe) at freeway speeds. It's not constant but frequent. Tires (MichelinCrossTerrain/17"wheels)are at 32psi.

Vehicle slightly tilted to one side-
Didn't see this at first but when looking from front or back, I noticed the driver side was lower. So I measured from the top of the rims to the bottom of the wheel wells: frontleft- 9.5", frontright- 10", rearleft- 12.5", rearright- 13". I'm sure half an inch is within "allowable tolerances" so I don't expect a dealer remedy but it bugs me. It looks crappy.

Does Anyone have feedback on the above?

Only thing I regret not getting is the leather steering wheel. Din't get upgraded JBL audio because after listening to it, well I'll put it this way: I've heard better sound from a $30 Walmart boombox. Whoever's in charge of Toyota's audio should get the boot ASAP.

coolpop36 · September 2003

Regarding your questions, the only thing I can relate to is the vibration/shimmy in the steering wheel.

I had terrible steering wheel movement at the higher speeds and it drove me crazy. To make a very long story short, you MUST have your truck diagnosed by a Hunter 9700 Force Variation Balancer. After 4 tries at balancing by Tire Kingdom and Discount Tire, I drove to a dealer who had this machine, and 2 slightly warped wheels were detected. Got new ones under warranty, now ride is as smooth as glass.

I think the site is hunter.com if you want to read about the balancer. I will never again go to a place that does not have this machine.

corancher · September 2003

ABS system--This doesn't sound normal. All the ABS-equipped vehicles I've driven (including 2003 4Runner) have been silent during their self-checks. ABS light may be on during test, but does not blink. I think you've got something to take to the dealer. Same goes for the ABS system activation that seems to happen to you at random. That part may be tougher for the dealer to diagnose, though, unless they can easily reproduce it. Maybe this behavior is producing some error codes that can be read by the dealer.

Steering wheel shimmy/vibration--These are often tough problems to diagnose and fix, but they should be fixed. A wiggling steering wheel is an intrusive irritation while driving. Could be problems with imbalance, out-of-round wheels or tires, otherwise defective tires, and maybe suspension problems.

Vehicle tilt--My opinion is that if you can see a problem without measurement, it's unacceptable. I haven't noticed this on any other vehicles in good health, and I think they should fix it for you. Maybe just suspension adjustment needed, but maybe somebody did something wrong when the vehile was tied down to a transporter or something like that. I'd start by sliding a piece of cardboard under the vehicle and then sliding myself under for a good look around. You might find something loose or bent or asymmetrical.

I have had the occasional mild vibration at idle, but it was so small I didn't consider it a problem. It seems to have gone away now, at any rate.

I think these are, overall, great vehicles, and you should be having a great experience. Don't settle for anything less!

alfster1 · September 2003

Could you define fast idling? What RPM reading do you get when the 4runner is parked? I get around 900-100 RPM. If it is higher, you should have the dealer look at it.

As for the Brake pedal pressure issue, it is hard to say. If your engine is revving higher than normal, that that could explain why you need more pressure to keep the 4runner from moving.

rentschl · September 2003

I have strong opinions on warping rotors after I had a '94 Toyota pickup that the rotors repeatedly warped starting at 14,000 miles. With respect to rotor warping, brake systems of today are not solving any new problems that aren't already well understood. I find it unacceptable to have this problem.

When my rotors warped on my '94 pickup, of couse the dealer offered to turn them. I figured I paid for a new car so why should I get stuck with turned (thinner) rotors. So I demanded new rotors and got them; twice. The last time was right before the warranty expired.

So far, my '03 V8 Limited hasn't had any warping issues as I approach 15,000 miles.

A couple points:
With the '03 4Runner, how can a vehicle that is provisioned to tow 7,000 lbs. and safely brake, get warped rotors towing nothing during reasonable driving?

I would find that unacceptable.

Before owning my '94 Toyota pickup I owned many vehicles without having any rotor warpage. Most notably an '88 Nissan Pathfinder that went 93,000 miles on the factory pads, not to mention rotors. So with that history, having rotors warp on the '94 pickup was a little hard to stomach.

My advice to anyone with warping rotors: At least insist on new rotors near the end of the warranty period!

stever · September 2003

they refused to give them back to me

This is an old car dealer trick, along with throwing them on the roof, "losing" them, misplacing your driver's license, etc.

One solution would be to whip out your cell phone and call the cops. Your next call would be to the local TV station.

Not a good use of police resources, but a few well publicized citizens arrests around the country for theft would bury this reprehensible practice for good. Ah well, I can dream.

Perhaps a letter to the GM of Toyota of Plano wouldn't fall on deaf ears.

Steve, Host

3toyboy · September 2003

Like the two of you mentioned, I find it takes a higher amount of brake pressure to stay put at stoplights. The wife has not complained about our '03 SR5, so I had chalked it up to needing more workouts. I will inquire next week, when I bring our rig in for an off-centered steering wheel.

john_dode · September 2003

Does anybody know how the low tire pressure alarm is going to work in the '04 4R? Will it just be a light that goes on when the pressure is low, or will it show the real time pressure in each tire?

Thanks

JD

tangman · September 2003

This forum has great discussion on problems with the new 4-Runner. What should a person do during a test drive to see if the new vehicle has the problems posted.
In the case of the sulfur, does it smell within the first 20 miles. What speed and characteristic make it happen with the windows closed. Do you drive 50mph, slam on the brakes and the smell is there? I have driven a couple of v8s and could not make it happen. Does anyone in Washington State or with an 04 have the sulfur smell problem.

As for the brake problem, can one detect this on a test drive.

Are there any other symptom that a new buyer should be looking for.

Thanks in advance for any advice posted.

chuck999 · September 2003

Have a 1992 4-runner - has been GREAT ...

Been looking for new SUV, saw Pilot and really got hooked on idea of 3'rd seat. 2004 4-Runner has BUT:
Can't get with sport model
AND - when I try the "build your vehicle" website, seems like you can't get 3'rd seat in SR5 with sunroof (3 packages, choose 1 of 3)

Maybe I'm just reading this wrong - but it seems kind of short-sighted to me that toyota would go though trouble of adding 3'rd seat to 4-runner only to offer it in so limited of a context ..

Does anyone know whether it's possible to configure a 4-runner with 3'rd seat AND sunroof?

And does anyone have know a mechanical or technical reason 3'rd seat can't be offered in Sport Edition ....

Appreciate any comments ...

Thanks!

nick4597 · September 2003

From what I understood talking to several people was that Toyota is pushing the Sport version as an off-road, go anywhere model grade and want to keep it strictly sport, with no 3rd row seat. As far as the moonroof is concerned, since they have to drop the roof line a bit to get the moonroof and all it's mechanics in there there wouldn't be sufficient head room for a 3rd row seat. Oh well.

meyersej · September 2003

It's apparently also not available with JBL audio (the subwoofer in the cargo area must interfere with it) which implies it's not available with the Nav system nor with the 6-CD in dash changer. I expect they'll be few and far between and will probably only show up on modestly equipped SR5s since most Limited buyers will want some of the things that conflict with it.

aheck · September 2003

I thought a few posts back it was determined that the 3rd row could be with the X-REAS, just not with the air suspension. Are we changing that now to say it's not available with X-REAS at all?

Aaron

meyersej · September 2003

The brochure has the "not available" footnote next to the air suspension, but just before it says "includes X-REAS".

aheck · September 2003

You can get the X-Reas without the air suspension, right? So to avoid any confusion, you can get the 3rd row seat with the X-Reas, correct?

Aaron

yotagene · September 2003

I was considering changing my 03 for an 04 when I first heard about the new 3rd row option. But I changed my mind when I heard of all the options I wanted were not available. Here's a list of key items that are NOT available w/ 3rd row seat:

1. Moonroof
2. JBL Sound system
3. Navigation system
4. Rear Height Control Air Suspension (standard on Sport Edition)
5. Exterior colors: Dorado Gold Pearl and Pacific Blue Metallic
6. Cargo area back-up mirrors
7. Double-decker cargo system
8. Tonneau cover

The X-Reas suspsension alone (w/o #4 above) is OK with the 3rd row seat.

My 2003 V6 4Runner has #1, #2, and #3 and losing any of these items for a 2004 (w/ 3rd row seat) is not an option for me. Navigation system and JBL sound system is the best I've used and listened to. My moonroof has been fixed of all rattles and I love that too. I really wanted the 3rd row seat and it looks like the 2nd row can recline as well, but losing 3 of 4 options is not a good situation.

~yotagene

whitney8 · September 2003

It is my understanding that Rear Height Control (which happens to include XREAS) is only available on the Limited, not the SPORT or SR5.

Toyota 4Runner

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