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All-New 2010 Legacy/Outback

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Comments

  • seabrook7039seabrook7039 Member Posts: 44
    On the surface it's very surprising that the CVT could achieve significant fuel savings over a manual transmission. Usually automatics come at a lower savings, not higher, when compared to manuals. But one item in the specs listed on cars101 are the front/rear power distribution ratios. With the 6-speed manual "symmetrical viscous coupling 50/50 front/back power split" is listed. With the CVT "constantly varying front/back power split 90/10 front/back power split" is listed. I wonder if this difference in ratios allows the CVT-based engines to send less power thru the driveshaft and rear differential, a path which may offer inefficiencies over power that is directed to the front wheels?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The CVT uses the same AWD as did the older 4-speed automatic (4EAT), with the same front/rear power splits, and still gets better gas mileage.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Saw it on TV last night. The theme was hand-me-downs, as in the younger child always getting stuff from older siblings and/or parents. Finally, towards the end the parents get a new Outback, and their old Outback gets handed down to this kid, suggesting that the kid will also get this 2010 Outback someday.

    Bob
  • 204meca204meca Member Posts: 369
    As has been said, the CVT is not new. I have had it in a Civic 97 HX and a 04 Audi A4. In terms of smoothness., power, & fuel efficiency the CVTit beats the snot out of any other transmission I have had. I love shifting a good manual (e.g. typical Honda, even Subaru) but fact is that the CVT is simply a better transmission. I never had any issues with mine & am not aware of problems with any manufacturers . Yes there are not millions & millions of them out there with 100,000 plus miles, but so far they appear to be very reliable.

    Because of the fact that the CVT almost instantaneously takes a engine to its peak horsepower & torque & then stays there until one lets up on the gas, it sounds & feels odd.. But nothing does the job as well & it in 5 -10 years everyone will be used to it. I am still bemoaning the fact that the 2010 Forester does not have a CVT & may well buy a Outback instead solely for that reason.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Had everything but NAVI. Since I had already driven two 2.5i models, and an Outback, I was more focused on the 6-speed tranny.

    ...And it's a sweet unit, indeed. I don't understand what the complaints were from (some of) the media. I found it to be a really good shifting unit. Yeah, it's a little notchy, but I like that.

    I was also particularly impressed with the large center armrest and the relationship it had with the shift lever. It was just so natural to rest your arm on it while shifting; really good ergonomics there.

    As some of you know I'm a big fan of the gear indicator, which this car has. 5th and 6th gears are so close, you could easily forget what gear you're in, and this little touch is really appreciated, at least by me. It's interesting that the gear readout does not show when the clutch is pushed in. So, if you're at a stop light with the clutch in, it doesn't show.

    My drive was limited to some interstate and city driving. Unfortunately I did not get a chance to find some windy roads, as I would have liked to have seen how it handled those roads. Ah... another excuse to go and drive one.

    Compared to my '09 WRX, it is much more refined, very quiet and softer riding (but still firm). Well, it is a "GT" after all. It will make taking trips really something to look forward to, as it's a great highway car. My WRX feels and is faster, and in that respect I'm a little disappointed in the GT. I can't help but wonder what this car would be like with a 3.6 turbo.

    And yeah, the seats need better side bolstering—especially if it's to be a true grand touring sedan. Oh, that e-parking brake? It does feel weird with a manual tranny. Not sure I like with a manual?

    Bob
  • seabrook7039seabrook7039 Member Posts: 44
    Bob,
    Having driven both transmissions (6-speed and CVT) and also you being a fan on a good manual what would/will you now get if you were/are buying a 2010 H4 Outback? How did the acceleration feel and which accelerated faster?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Tough question. I think I'd get the CVT, only because—for this kind of vehicle—I think the CVT makes more sense. The Outback is not a sporty car, whereas the LGT is, and the 6-speed makes more sense for that model, I think. Also, I have not driven a non-turbo 6-speed, so I can't address the acceleration aspect of that powertrain combo. Having said that, if you really prefer shifting for yourself, the 6-speed manual I think will be fine—if you can find one, as I suspect those models will be hard to find.

    Also, I'm used to driving a WRX. So when I get into my wife's '01 Forester automatic, it seems dog-slow to me.

    Bob
  • jhdjhd Member Posts: 20
    Nissans has been using CVT"s starting 2003 (or 2002) model. There were tranny problems reported, more back few years ago. I looked at Altimas and CVT was what turned me away as far as reliability. Not much towing capacity neither. They even tell you not to drive it on the highway during the first weeks. Once you wear out a groove in the pulleys, you are done. No replacement parts with exception to valve module. Other then that, the whole tranny needs to be replaced ($8-$9k here). Then the MINI tranny issue just popped up a couple of months back. $11k for replacement, many cases reported, there was a program about it on TV. So I decided to buy 2009 Legacy with 4 auto. Picked it up yesterday, it is looking to be a great car.
    I heard that 2010 Subaru CVT is of a chain type, different then Nissan. Hopefully they designed out the troubles (that they know of).
    On the other hand, I have always been too conservative, so take it for what is worth.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The Subie CVT chain belt is made by the same company that supplies CVTs to Audi. I don't expect any problems. Having said that, I'd probably opt for an extended warranty, just in case something does crop up.

    As to towing, the CVT-equipped Outback is rated to tow the same as last year's 4EAT Outback.

    Bob
  • 204meca204meca Member Posts: 369
    We plan to replace our 04 A4 & 03 Forester XS in the next couple of months with one car that will be primarily the wife's and our travel / hauling / towing / winter weather car. (Our second car will be a recently acquired used Honda Del Sol which I will be my daily driver / econ- car). The O9 Forester has been prominate on my radar since introduced. More recently the Outback (thanks to the improvement in performace & mpg that should result from the new CVT) and the Jetta Sportwagen Tdi (thanks to 40+ highway mpg) have also entered the fray.

    On the way back from a great family weekend we decided to stop by & look at size up the three candidates at an automall about 20 miles from our city. We agreed to only kick tires & not drive anything today.

    1st stop the VW / Mistubishi lot. Only a couple of sales people there, no customers to be seen anywhere. The Jetta Sportwagen Tdi looks sharp, felt good - somewhat similar to the our A4 - & certaintly would seem to be the least expensive to purchase with leather (acutally a hard to tell from leather vinyl material) & drive. But it does not have much ground clearance (about 5.5") & it simply did not seem like the practical choice for towing a 2000 lb bass boat or taking it on rough, rutted forest service roads to ge to hiking trails in the Pacific NW.

    Next stop the Subaru dealer across the street. About 3 customers were looking at cars as we pulled in. The 1st thing I noticed was a person from our neighborbod was negotiating her trade on the 2010 Outback Ltd on the showroom floor (they also had a 2010 OB Premium on the lot). We went to look at 2010 Forester Ltd only to be quickly told to back off by another sales guy as he was getting the keys to take it for a test drive. Went to look at a O9 Forester Ltd & there was a couple expressing interest in it!

    After looking over & sitting in both models, my wife liked the Outback better. Prefered the smaller moon roof & interior roominess / appearance and & exterior appearance. The seats were indeed very comfortable on the showroom floor & I have not doubt the car will be a very pleasant ride. I was surprised that the armrest in the new OB did not extendable like that in the new Forester. While visually the cargo area in the new OB looks bigger apparently it is is only marginally larger (according to measurements on cars101.com) then that of the Forster. So it looks like the OB placed more emphasis on passenger room than cargo room.

    As for me, the increased passenger space & comfort of the OB is appealing to us 60 year olds.But the biggest draw for me on the OB is the CVT & approximately 20% greater fuel efficiency. I suspect that will be a favorable factor 5 -10 years from now when it comes time to sell it & gas prices are presumable significantly increased. That said, I still have a soft spot for the Forester - I like the idea that it is a bit smaller, has a smaller turning circle & presumable will feel a bit crisper & lighter when taking it into a tight corner at speed or pulling out to pass. It will take a 20 mile test drive to really compare the comfort & handling of the two. Plus I will reading professional reviews and watching forums such as this looking for trusted opinions.

    Two months ago, I thought purchasing a new 09 Forester shortly after the 2010s were introduced was inevitable. But with no incentives and only a few 09 Forester Limiteds available, the alure of an O9 Forester is fast dimming. We have $900 Subbie Bucks & can't get any more until end of August. But then I can rack up $500 more pretty quick with business purchases. So I think we will probably we ready to deal in September & hopefully some of the pent up demand for an updated OB will have cooled down.

    When the sales guy said he could give me a good price on any of them I informed him that we had the VIP plan & my starting price would be 2% below invoice he noticably got quiet. I am not sure if I was wise to disclose that so early, but it seemed to take a little wind out of his sail. He actually asked me not to tell others about the VIP plan !

    By the time we left my neighbor's was smile was bigger than when we came in & the folks that looked at the 2010 Forester we talking trade-in values. I would have guessed folks would be looking for deals on the 09s, but at least for the hour we were there, the 2010s were all the rage! So,in NW WA, people are buying Subarus & not just last years left overs. It looks like Subaru a great time to be a Subbie salesperson & that SOA may finish the already record year real strong.
  • sevenseassevenseas Member Posts: 44
    No 2010 Outbacks at the local Long Beach Ca Subaru dealership. They are expecting them in two weeks. But what is the VIP plan?
  • ecotrklvrecotrklvr Member Posts: 519
    The clutch indicator light wasn't included in the Subaru as that function was already included in the operator's leg-brain sensor. Prior to, and in communion with, Subaru's involvement in the matter. And the gear position in indicated by the equation = [(your right hand's position in space) + (your memory)]. If these abilities are beyond your capability, there's a fine automatic trans as well.

    You may think this "over the top" and "undeserved". Unless you've over 40. Shame on you for asking the rest of us to pay for a light that tells you where your left foot is.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    A clutch light? I never asked for that.

    Yep, I'm well over 40, and judging by your post, probably have been driving a stick-shift longer than you have been on this planet.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.7tune.com/subaru-legacy-selling-like-hot-cars/
  • dbtdbt Member Posts: 298
    And the gear position in indicated by the equation = [(your right hand's position in space) + (your memory)].

    This may be news to you, but some of us drive with our right hand on the steering wheel. Maybe it's just something you pick up when you turn 40 ;)
  • fendertweedfendertweed Member Posts: 98
    my trusted indep. shop that specializes in Audi/Porsche/VW (and has worked on my Audis for 12 yrs.) said that there have been a lot of problems with the Audi CVTs, so this does not give me a good feeling about the Subaru CVT on the OB.
  • saedavesaedave Member Posts: 694
    a lot of problems with the Audi CVTs

    That's what I found with web searches, but it is possible that those CVTs were earlier ones with the 5 plate rather than the 7 plate clutch which was in later models. Who has up-to-date information?
  • 204meca204meca Member Posts: 369
    I am all ears to hear more about CVT problems. Apparently my great - but limited - experience with two CVTs (relativley low mileage ones at that) may not be universal. Can someone illuminate us regarding the pluses & minuses of 5 plate clutches CVTs vs 7 plate clutches CVTs & which one the OB has? This is such a great place to share & learn -- thanks! :)
  • seabrook7039seabrook7039 Member Posts: 44
    One issue my wife and I have with the 2009 Outback is the lack of a center overhead LATCH hook. As a result you can't mount a child seat in the center, the generally preferred location. With the 2010 Ouback being wider can child seats now be center mounted using the LATCH system?
  • ecotrklvrecotrklvr Member Posts: 519
    Hey Bob. Thanks for the post - your are always informative. I had just gotten home from a grueling 450 mile drive late Sunday night when I read it. It was well after 1:00am when I was trying to wind down from the drive that I wrote my reply. My apologies. Of course, I get it now. You wrote "It's interesting that the gear readout does not show when the clutch is pushed in." It read as if you'd complained about the lack of the light showing the condition called "when the clutch is pushed in". (my eight-grade English teacher would have red-inked that one and suggested the word "while" for "when". But that was 1967, as was taught by the Urasuline Order in NE Ohio)

    For the record, is top gear to the right and up, or down? How long were the throws? I too find the center-armrest-to-shifter arrangement can make or break the pleasure of a particular vehicle's driving. I loved my '99 Pathfinder for that, and the fact that resting my hand on the shifter knob while in 5th put the radio controls a finger-length away.

    For the record, I've owned over 35 cars & trucks, more than half of them were stick-shift, and none of them had a light to tell me what gear I'm in. Not sure I'd use it if I had it. I always put the shifter in neutral and then let out the clutch while at stoplights of any appreciable length, anyway. Force of habit, I suppose, having replaced a few throwout bearings in my time.

    Keep the posts coming, Bob. Let us know if you spring for the Legacy GT.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Top gear is down, below 5th. The throws were reasonable. Subaru does offer the short-throw shifter for the Legacy, if you're interested.

    I can't tell you how many times and how many miles I've driven in 4th, thinking I'm in 5th; or in 3rd thinking I'm in 4th, with my new WRX. This is a result of a quiet cabin and smooth engine, and is even more of a problem when you're dealing with six closely spaced gears.

    Never had this problem with older less refined cars with fewer gears, but I now very much welcome this gear indicator. I believe the new Nissan 370Z also has this feature, and I suspect it will become commonplace in the future as it will encourage you to drive more efficiently (less revs = better gas mileage).

    Unfortunately a new car is not in my current budget.

    Bob
  • fendertweedfendertweed Member Posts: 98
    that I don't know ... the problems I heard about related to the TCU (trans. control unit) not the clutches per se, but who knows if they might be related?
  • seabrook7039seabrook7039 Member Posts: 44
    Seems like the first round are only equiped with CVTs...
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I haven't seen any yet. Subaru is really pushing this new CVT, so I expect very few 6-speed to be found, either on the Outback or Legacy. When the traditional advantage of a manual disappears—better gas mileage than an automatic, which is the case here—the only reason to buy a manual gearbox is that you prefer to shift gears for yourself.

    Bob
  • seabrook7039seabrook7039 Member Posts: 44
    The only advantage? How about the reliability of a multi-decade proven technology vs. a brand-new technology? The question of which offers superior 0-60 acceleration has not been settled but I'm guessing the manual will win out. Plus it seems that if a CVT does fails then it's 'repaired' by a full replacement while if a clutch on a manual goes then you're out for fraction of the cost of a CVT. And lets not forget that old but still true option: if your battery can't spin the starter you can still roll-start a manual stick car. The fuel savings of the CVT is commendable but since the manual is cheaper to acquire it could take a couple of years of ownership depending on your borrowing costs before the CVT actually saves you money.
  • saedavesaedave Member Posts: 694
    The fuel savings of the CVT is commendable but since the manual is cheaper to acquire it could take a couple of years of ownership depending on your borrowing costs before the CVT actually saves you money.

    Or never, if real world...not EPA... fuel economy turns out to be at least as good. Use Consumer Reports' mpg numbers when they become available to decide.
  • ecotrklvrecotrklvr Member Posts: 519
    Sounds like you've got a pretty nice ride already. Enjoy it.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Ummm... The manual tranny in the new Legacy and Outback is also new. New = 6-speed, old = 5-speed; so the jury is out there too.

    CVTs are gaining popularity with a number of carmakers, so I'm not that concerned about the reliability issue. Also, Subaru is a very conservative company. I seriously doubt that they would risk their excellent and hard-earned reputation on a CVT if they had any concerns about it.

    I'm guessing the CVT will match or better the 6-speed in acceleration.

    Bob
  • ecotrklvrecotrklvr Member Posts: 519
    Guess you and I are different. When I drive a stick shift vehicle on-road, I steer with my left hand (so I can shift with my right) until I get it into top gear. Then I can switch to two hands or left or right. That's so I never find myself driving along on the freeway in 4th by mistake (like some). So far, I haven't forgotten what gear I'm in while shifting up, either.

    Tell me, how does one steer with the right hand while driving a stick? In the US, and not in a JDM vehicle?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Years ago, I should say decades ago, I was taught not to keep my hand on the gear shift lever all the time, as resting your hand there could cause undo wear-and-tear on the tranny. Not sure if that's true, but that's what I was taught. So, as such, my right hand is always moving back and forth from the steering wheel to the gear shift, as the driving situation dictates.

    Granted, if you keep your hand there "all the time," you likely wouldn't forget what gear you're in; but that's not how I drive.

    Bob
  • ecotrklvrecotrklvr Member Posts: 519
    I was taught not to rest the hand on the gearshift either, except when you know you're going to be upshifting quite soon. Which is your point - with a 6-speed, unless you're above 50-60mph, you just leave it in 5th, or even 4th going down a 35 mph street. Never had to deal with that one yet. If the 6-speed Outback can be gotten hold of, I'll test drive one.

    If the 6-speed could actually get the same mileage, and could be had for $800-1000 less, I'd take it.

    The big no-no is driving with left foot resting on the clutch pedal. Nothing good comes of that.
  • gmginsfogmginsfo Member Posts: 116
    My thoughts exactly. Saw and drove - thru the lot only, since I'm not yet buying - a 2010 Outback at Nielsen Subaru/Mitsu in Portage, IN yesterday, and was very impressed. They've really upsized the Outback and Forester since I bought my '03 Forester - for the better, to my mind. Memo to everyone like me who's "going to wait a bit:" don't wait too long - the federal sales tax credit applies - so far - only to cars bought by 12-31-09. Still wondering what the sunroof configuration for the new Outback will be, since the one I saw had none; dual or single monster?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The moonroof is smaller, like that found on the Legacy sedan. So, no more mega-moonroof.

    Bob
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    ....That about sums it up for me....

    First, they styling is down right horrible and the body design has no continuity. This goes for both sedan and the Outback.

    The materials used in the previous generation Legacy/Outback were much much better. The whole interior is hard plastic in this latest rendition. I find the center of the dash obtrusive and hideous.

    I drove a 2.5i with the automatic transmission and power delivery was virtually identical to the previous generation. It had 16" alloys on it that make it look like it was riding on doughnuts. ugh...

    One thing that confuses me is the size of the Outback. It's larger in mass then a Forester, yet, sits lower on the ground and it costs more. It almost seems as if Subaru is canabolizing it's own sales.....

    I have had so many people come to my Subaru store and express their displeasure with it. This is not a good sign....
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    So you sell Subarus?

    The ground clearance of the Outback and the Forester are the same.

    Bob
  • nwbearnwbear Member Posts: 20
    I test drove a 2010 Outback and came back impressed. I like the design of both the interior and exterior, but the interior without the fake wood is a bit too industrial for my tastes. While not the best example of the species, the fake wood warms things up a bit. There is a marked improvement in the comfort of the leather seats over the cloth ones, I too noticed the hard plastic dash, but since I generally try to restrain myself from caressing the dash it isn't too important to me. Of more importance are the surfaces I actually touch when I'm using (not cleaning) the vehicle.

    What I really enjoyed was the engine/CVT combo. There seemed to be plenty of power on tap and at highway cruising speeds the engine dropped below 2000 rpm. The programming of the CVT seems very well sorted out. Road noise was significant, but not objectionable. Ride quality was good.

    My only complaint with the engine was noticeable vibration at idle. There is none in the bigger Toyota Venza 4. The ride, interior and exterior are much better than the Venza however. I'm still trying to figure out which planet the Venza came from. The way too big 20 inch wheels on the Venza also contribute to a truck like ride.

    All in all the Outback is the front runner in the early stages of my search for a new 4 wheel drive road vehicle. The Forester would be of consideration too if they got rid of that damn 4 speed auto and replaced it with the CVT. Depending on dealer discounts and/or rebates (admittedly unlikely on a brand new model) I may be driving an Outback soon.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The Forester would be of consideration too if they got rid of that damn 4 speed auto and replaced it with the CVT.

    I expect that to happen in a couple of years, if not sooner.

    Bob
  • fendertweedfendertweed Member Posts: 98
    some more research shows that the CVT is probably made by JATCO, which makes CVTs for various mfrs. including Nissan, Suzuki, Daimler Chrysler, Mitsubishi, Renault, etc.

    see http://www.jatco.co.jp/ENGLISH/PRODUCTS/cvt.html

    I've also read that the chain driven CVTs tend to have a longer life than the old belt driven ones, but may be more expensive to repair/replace. I've also seen anecdotal evidence that the Audi CVT TCU issues may have been on their early ones.

    It's a frustrating crapshoot ... CVT from a long established mfr tho' new to the Subie v. a new 6-speed (reminds me of my old Saab days when they strengthened the pinion bearing (a weak point) in their 5-speed in the '89 900s, and yet our '89 turned out to be the only one of several high mileage Saabs we owned that needed a tranny rebuild!).

    I am going to have to make a choice very soon, my '01 Audi wagon is dying and I'll be trading it in the next 2-3 weeks probably, either for a leftover '09 OB Ltd., or maybe a '10 OB Premium (but then there are those tranny choices/gremlins, lol). :confuse: :confuse:
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I've been told by someone who is associated with Subaru that their new CVT, like the 4EAT which it replaces, is an in-house unit, but that the chain belt comes from the company that makes the Audi CVTs. It was done in-house to keep the costs down, again so I've been told.

    Bob
  • fendertweedfendertweed Member Posts: 98
    that's both interesting and kind of scary IMO.... don't you think?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Scary? Why?

    Bob
  • fendertweedfendertweed Member Posts: 98
    they (Subaru) are not, AFAIK, a company known for making longlasting reliable CVTs. They haven't put one in their vehicles recently have they? (I could be wrong).

    So instead of buying from a reputable established supplier, they are trying to essentially copy that product in house at a lower cost.

    That endeavor IMO/IME carries with it both the possibility of success, and the real possibility of failure either from using less robust parts, less robust & effective engineering or manufacturing, etc.

    It increases the crap-shoot aspect of gambling on the long term reliability.
  • saedavesaedave Member Posts: 694
    The JATCO website has an illustration of a unit for rear drive. Such a unit's guts could have been augmented with Subaru all wheel drive mechanisms. (Or just copied, perhaps). Take a look at the cross section illustration of the new CVT in Drive: The CVT is completely integrated into the AWD.

    We will know that there is a JATCO connection if Nissan eventually uses it in an AWD drive vehicle like they did an early Subaru drive system years ago. Present Nissan AWD could use some improvements.

    If the CVT is all Subaru...or worse yet any piece of an Audi...reliability long term is a concern. I left VW/Audi vehicles to never return some years ago after very expensive failures. I would be comfortable with the JATCO units, but certainly would wait quite some time before trusting any component from an Audi supplier.
  • 204meca204meca Member Posts: 369
    Yes it is relatively new technology (CVTs & CVT w AWD) & a new tranny to Subaru. Yet I would not hesitate to buy a Subbie w this tranny for 2 reasons:
    1. I probably will not drive my next car more than 12,000/year so unless it is crap, it should last
    2. Subaru seems to stand behind their products & if there an obvious flaw rears its ugly head several years later, they are likely to stand behind it w an extended warranty -- They did so for the "cold clutch judder" problem in 03 Foresters (personal experience) & wheel bearings (experiece of friend with OB).

    Still, I understand the waryiness behind new design / technology - bugs do tend to show up!.
  • saedavesaedave Member Posts: 694
    1. I probably will not drive my next car more than 12,000/year so unless it is crap, it should last

    There are many failure modes that do not require high miles. For those whose memories are long, recall reverse gear Powerglide failures in Corvettes. Mine was one of them at very low miles.

    That said, the new Subaru AWD/CVT unit appears to be a miracle of light weight, amazingly compact design. Let's hope they did it right.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    All the early ride reports have been very positive. I've driven 3 examples, and I'm impressed with it. Plus, 31 mpg on the highway—higher than what the new 6-speed manual and the old 4EAT gets—is great for an AWD car.

    Bob
  • saedavesaedave Member Posts: 694
    Plus, 31 mpg on the highway—higher than what the new 6-speed manual and the old 4EAT gets—is great for an AWD

    But that is EPA mpg, an optimist's dream. It would be no surprise if the 6-speed manual is slightly better for a careful driver in the real world. But for most drivers the CVT will probably do better.

    Another factor in mpg may be front/rear torque split with more front, less rear an advantage. I believe I saw 90/10 % F/R mentioned for the new system which is even more FWD than older 4EATs' 80/20%....not to mention near even torque split on the five-speed auto 3.6 liter.

    Does the front end plough on the CVT? Perhaps torque split is varied by the stability control during cornering to avoid it. Does anyone know?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I believe I saw 90/10 % F/R mentioned for the new system which is even more FWD than older 4EATs' 80/20%.

    That's never been officially stated by Subaru. At least I haven't seen it—and I've looked. All Subaru says is that it constantly varies. As to 90/10 or 80/20? Who knows?

    No, the CVT-equipped Legacy and Outback don't plow as far as I could tell.

    Bob
  • nwbearnwbear Member Posts: 20
    The new EPA estimates are no longer "an optimist's dream." I have two vehicles and both consistently get one or two MPG better than their EPA estimate.
  • altimatealtimate Member Posts: 74
    While I might not use the world horrible to describe the 2010's styling, it certainly is extremely mediocre and mimics numerous other midsizes making it about as anonymous as possible.

    After literally years of research I ended up leasing an 09 Legacy SE in Sept. 08 and I'm nothing short of thrilled with my decision. Ten months of trouble free driving (not a rattle in sight) and they even throw in a free loaner with every service visit (all of three so far). Recent trip NYC (1500mi RT) averaged 32 mpg. That's compact car numbers.

    The deal sealer was the extraordinary high quality of the interior. Soft touch everywhere. Some people don't care but for me hard plastic everywhere means I'm driving a piece of crap. This car's interior is at least 10K higher in quality than its price. The SE with free moonroof and Harman-Kardon was the icing on the cake.
    The 2010 apparently charges an extra 1K for each of those items so basically the price is up 2K for a comparable car.

    As to what the public will think of the car (mainly the looks) I would have to say that since they buy numerous vehicles that could be charitably described as bland they may not be put off by the 2010's styling. Guess will see. I for one will pass when my lease is up.
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