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All-New 2010 Legacy/Outback

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Comments

  • lvaradilvaradi Member Posts: 1
    Hello marty40.

    I am having the exact same issue you described. I will be having the dealership investigate why the fm stereo sounds muffled but the cd 's sound good.

    Did you get any updates what might be causing this issue? Thanks
  • eps105eps105 Member Posts: 216
    What do you think about the Limited climate control? Consumer Reports was very critical about prior Subaru model's automatic climate control reporting that the temperatures varied dramatically. Is the temperature well regulated or do you experience hot air for awhile then cold air to compensate?

    Careful, CR is highly critical of the Forester's climate control. Blows me away that Subaru never improved it from the 2nd to 3rd generation Foresters. CR is happy with the Outback's.

    I had an 03 Forester with auto climate and it was hyperactive. I now have a 10 Outback 3.6R Ltd and the dual-zone climate control is top notch.

    Of note is that it doesn't blow for long (or at all) on the highest fan setting, so it stays relatively quiet even when first warming up or cooling down. In the Forester, it would blow at full fan speed for 20+ minutes on the hottest days.

    If you can afford it, definitely get the LTD.
  • odd1odd1 Member Posts: 227
    One of the best things on the engine break in is not to use the cruise control in the in the first 1K miles. You'd have a very hard time keeping the same kind of constant speed on your own that the cruise control can.
  • philly58philly58 Member Posts: 5
    Well, it happened! Not paying enough attention, I brushed my side mirror on my 2010 Legacy 3.6 R against the garage wall on my way in to park and --boom--it cracked! So now I'm going to have to buy another mirror. My last Subaru--a 2004 had a retractable side mirror, but they seem to have cheaped out on this one. Just another comment--I love the car, but the equalizer function in the Harmon-Kardon audio system is impossible to figure out except by a expert sound engineer and the manual is totally useless giving no info on this. As a matter of fact the entire manual dealing with the NAV system and audio is practically useless, as if the person putting it together was in a rush to finish it. Just venting--really irritated about the side mirror which is probably going to cost a good five or six hundred bucks out of pocket!
  • cdndrivercdndriver Member Posts: 86
    That's one of the reasons I didn't get the Outback. I think they cheaped out on things like that.
    But it's off the radar anyway. I had two minor fender benders in the last 5 years. 38 years driving with no problems, but just had these two small accidents. My insurance said the "had" to drop me. So with my legacy coming off lease next weekend, and having just been told by the insurance company last week. I'm under gun to find something else to drive.
    Here's the real kick. I spoke with an insurance agent today for a quote in case I wanted to buy out my 07 legacy wagon. I also asked about a used 03 outback. The quotes for both cars came out to this (I suggest you sit down...I had to).
    Just over 10,000.00 a year. 840 a month with 1700 down.
    Even the 03 gets that.
    Another agent had quoted 5500 which now seems like a bargain.
    I feel this is punitive and unfair. It's one thing to double someone's coverage but to quadruple it is just ludicrous. I have to have a way to get to work that's reliable and at those rates, I'll have to take on a second job, just to pay for the :"privilege" of driving. I'll be working for my car, and those companies.
    I'm stunned and no sure how to proceed with very little time left. I have gone slightly over the allowed mileage, so I'll get hit with about 1.5 grand for that. There goes any savings on getting an older car compared with a newer one.
    cdndriver
  • eps105eps105 Member Posts: 216
    Sorry about your mirror. You'll have to let us know how much it cost and how hard it was to change.

    If it makes you feel better, expect it to cost under $200, not the $500+ you guessed. My wife cracked her Honda Pilot mirror 3 times on our garage and it is a retractable AND heated mirror and it was like $180.

    Replacement is an easy DIY job. Pop off the plastic trim cover from the inside (I just did it now with my fingers -- no tools required, it just pops out with moderate force) and you will see two screws and a wiring harness (for the heat and power mirror). Pull out the harness, unscrew the screws and the mirror will pull right off from the outside.

    10 minute job, tops. Don't let your dealer charge you for the install -- just buy the mirror from the parts counter.

    Regarding the nav equalizer -- it's a little confusing at first, but easy once you understand the cryptic terms (agree the manual stinks). It's a 4-band parametric equalizer (Google that), which is actually pretty nice.

    With each of the 4 bands, you can pick the center frequency for (essentially) the subwoofer, bass, midrange, and treble. Then for the Q value and dB, think of a tent with a pole in the center: The Q value is the spread (how wide the tent is) and the dB is the boost (how high the center pole goes up).

    So if you set the bass at 120 Hz, and set it to +3db, it will boost 3 dB at 120 Hz and taper off to both sides. Q value of 1 will taper off twice as slowly as a Q of .5, IIRC meaning that (in this example) 60 Hz will be boosted more at Q of 1 than it would at .5. (Sorry if these numbers don't match the choices, I'm doing it out of my head.)

    Hope this helps!

    Elliot
  • philly58philly58 Member Posts: 5
    Thanks, fellows, feeling better already what with your helpful comments. Was actually sitting outside in the car trying to figure out the equalizer function, then, in frustration, closed the manual and drove into the garage--no mirror! I'm almost laughing now! Will be back this weekend with a good summary of my experience with the car over the past three months. Night all and thanks!
  • philly58philly58 Member Posts: 5
    Oh just before I hit the sack I have to comment on this insurance thing. It's awful what they're allowed to do--practically the same thing happened to me a few years back. They insure you until you use it, then they drop you. It's really unfair. I would say make a complaint to the State Insurance Commission--they might be able to help you. You have my sympathy--my little mirror problem is nothing compared to yours. Good luck and good night.
  • surrfurtomsurrfurtom Member Posts: 122
    We have 1K miles on a 2010 OB Ltd with 2.5 CVT Nav, SR etc. Our auto climate control works perfectly. It has been set on 70 since new for both sides and it has been perfect so far in the cold weather without adjustment.

    I understand exactly what you are saying about auto climate control because I've experienced cars where they were constantly changing temps, fan speeds, air outlets, and it never was stable and comfortable. I have a Cad DTS where it works very well 90% of the time, but in the summer it sometimes over cools during early evening or cloudy conditions. Haven't needed AC in Subaru yet.

    The cruise works perfect and keeps speed constant.

    This is our first of 5 Subaru's (OB or legacy) where we went to the leather and the deluxe features. We like it. I actually don't care as much for the new smooth fabric as the softer felt type material that was used on older OBs.
  • surrfurtomsurrfurtom Member Posts: 122
    imho Subaru wants too much money (over $500 installed) for their integrated Sirius tuner, at least with the Nav. As an after market purchase from Subaru I've been told both that you get 3 months free subscription and also that you get nothing. That seems really high to buy these OEM satellite units when the satellite radio cos subsidize the after market units. Also these satellite companies are not that financially strong and there is no guarantee they won't go bankrupt. They'll be facing competition from internet radio and cell phone cos.
  • sweetsoulsweetsoul Member Posts: 35
    We are currently getting hammered with snow here in the northeast and well I couldn't resist the chance to take my new 2010 Outback out to play. Wow! Am I impressed! by far the best handling car in the snow I have ever driven. So I didn't go too far...just up the side of a mountain and down again in approx 5 inches of unpaved snow. It chewed right up the steep egress and down again with out flinching once. I also made some sharp turns and aside from the crunching sounds of the high snow under us I would have sworn we were out for a sunday drive. Man I love this car! :blush: I have to admit it handles better than my burly Xterra in 4wd ever did, and that is saying a lot :-)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Took my wife 2 hours to drive from Baltimore to DC last night, but she made it safely in her Forester. Wish I'd been with her since I have more experience driving in the snow, but I couldn't make it, and she was OK. :shades:
  • philly58philly58 Member Posts: 5
    Just want to summarize my three months experience with my 3.6R. First of all, I really love the driveability of the vehicle. Its handling and road feel is so much better than a Lexus e333 I had, and is on a par with a 99 BMW540I that I have as a summer car. I find the controls and instrumentation to be very good with the exception of the paddle wheels for manual shifting that I find to be just a gimmick. Far better that they would have put that money into retractable side view mirrors (the mirrors don't have this feature and I just broke one last night pulling into my narrow garage.) I also definitely don't like the location of and functioning of the auxillary brake. It's on a little panel and it is counterintuitive to apply it. Moreover, it is in a group of other buttons that one might mistakenly push, including the hillholder and the remote trunk opener. I truly dislike this kind of brake, particularly at night when it is lost amongst the other buttons. The seating in the car is fine (I'm 6'2, 215lbs) and I feel very comfortable in it, even driving long distances. The sound system (I have the upgraded Harmon-Kardon with the Nav Package) is just outstanding. I frequently will sit in the car to listen to a concert's end. On the other hand, expect to spend a whole afternoon at least learning how to use it because the manual is practically useless (the radio has a Dolby Logic system and its use is not even mentioned in the manual). Ditto the Nav system and the built in DVD player. It's obvious that these systems were developed at the same time as the vehicle was being developed and by different groups of people. The NAv manual and audio manual seem to have been done by a team of computer geeks separate and distinct from those who were developing the actual controls in the vehicle, so there is actually very little mention of actually how you get the system to do tasks. It is extremely frustrating that one has to work so hard to make these great features actually perform as they are supposed to.

    The gas mileage of this vehicle averages 21.8 mpg in ordinary mixed highway and city driving. The highest mileage I have ever seen is 25 on the highway. Definitely not a great feature, but the awd makes up for it. When all is said and done, I love the car, but just wish that somebody at Subaru would look into some of those irritating features that I have pointed out. Well, that's my short review for what it's worth.
  • britgeezerbritgeezer Member Posts: 95
    As useful as these forums are to us and maybe SOA does look here, however, if you expect change -write to customer relations or the CEO of Subaru.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Better still, I just posted his write up link over at NASIOC, where SOA folks do hang out. :)

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    How is the Navi, though, in operation?

    Do you like the routes it picks? Same way you'd usually go?

    How are the maps? Are they Navteq (if so what version)?

    Does the screen refresh quickly?

    Does the backup cam work well in dark areas?

    Fully agree about the side mirrors, BTW. I called that one early on, and knew it would happen to someone here. If our 02 Legacy had not had them we'd have broken it off at least once.
  • philly58philly58 Member Posts: 5
    I really have only used the Navigation system about four or five times and each time it worked well. I'm a longtime Garmin user and thus it took awhile to get used to this new system which, for example, requires one to actually specify the state in which your target location is located before finding that location. Thus I spent a lot of time wondering why certain big cities in Vermont did not show up on the map before actually going into the system and specifying the state of Vermont as the unit to be searched. I used to know, but don't know anymore about the "versions" of maps--I'll check into it tomorrow. But the system generally works very well,finding, for example, an obscure farm in Vermont where I was going to buy a boat! It was barren out there, but the system came through well. As to the rear camera, it works well and you can actually see behind you in the dark. It's very useful. As to the sideview mirror, I ductaped it for the weekend and will be taking the car into the dealership this week--that really broke my heart to see that beautiful car defaced! Take care and have a good week everybody
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    specify the state

    Interesting...I observed the opposite. :confuse:

    The Tribeca I tested did not ask, but my Garmins do. Where to, Address, and the first thing they ask is the state (then city, then street #, then street name).

    Is this just something you do once, i.e. select your region or something?

    You have a good weekend, too. I just found out the Federal government here in DC closed tomorrow, so I have the day off. YIPPEEE! :shades:
  • eps105eps105 Member Posts: 216
    Hey all, Please see my posting at the link below for a 9 page comprehensive illustrated guide on modding the nav on the 2010 Outback/Legacy to override the navigation lockouts while in motion, and also to add a trick mod to view the rear camera even if you are not in reverse:

    http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=209308#post209308

    I hope I'm not breaking forum rules linking to another site here... I actually tried to due my due diligence and read the forum rules to see if we're allowed to do this now, but after clicking around for a few minutes I couldn't find them. :blush:

    Elliot
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Kudos for posting that.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Great job Elliot! Your efforts are certainly much appreciated here.

    Bob
  • surrfurtomsurrfurtom Member Posts: 122
    I agree that Elliot's documentation on this mod is excellent. Subaru should provide every owner with such an option for those who typically have co-pilots. Why should operation be restricted to only the driver? Actually I followed the original bypass discussion on the other forum and never expected the followup to be as comprehensive. Again my kudos.

    As a long time EE I fully understand the need for documentation detail and the frustrations that result when it is commonly lacking. My thanks to Elliot for taking the time to document it correctly, as it does take time to do anything correctly. Lip service is cheap.
  • asdf9asdf9 Member Posts: 26
    Is that car hot or what? My 2009 Forester is the best. I used to be stranded back in the rear-wheel drive days, when it snowed, but no more! A lot of people love their front wheel drives, but even they get in trouble when the snow falls. AWD is the only option. Unless you live out in Los Angeles and even then, I would keep my subaru.
  • eps105eps105 Member Posts: 216
    I know this is a cross-post, but I don't think people will mind me getting the word out about this.... If you experience the 3.6R rolling stop hesitation issue with your OB or Leg, call your dealer now to schedule the new ECM flash -- I just called mine and they confirmed access to the Service Bulletin details and the ECM flash fiiles. See below...

    Elliot

    Service Bulletin #11-94-09
    Pages: 1

    Bulletin Description: This is to announce that ECM reprogramming files are now available to rectify a "delay" feeling after depressing the gas pedal. The usual customer description is a "hesitation". It is most noticeable when attempting to accelerate after a slow "rolling stop" (very slow speed / not quite fully stopped), and sometimes may be accompanied by a harsh shift as the transmission shifts at the same time of acceleration.
  • Well, I swore by AWD for years. However, advances and electronics have gifted us with traction control, stability control and brake force redistribution among other things. I live in Wisconsin and we know snow and ice, and it seems to me in light of what the new systems can do, there are very few situations any more where AWD does a whole lot better than buying a car with all the electronic assistance available. Yes, AWD will still occasionally offer some additional traction under some conditions, but at the expense of extra weight, complexity and repair costs down the line every day you drive. Up to you. Plus, I don't believe the advantages of real snow tires can be overstated.
  • KCRamKCRam Member Posts: 3,516
    Re the link... you're good ;)

    kcram - Pickups/Wagons Host
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    there are very few situations any more where AWD does a whole lot better than buying a car with all the electronic assistance available

    Well, I can come up with one of them, and I wouldn't call it uncommon.

    I have a Sienna with VSC, and it can't make it up my driveway if there's more than a few inches of snow. The VSC is hyper-active and retards any momentum I have. The long wheelbase doesn't help - more weight transfer so the front axle has no traction at all.

    Turn it off and I can make it up, with a bit of drama and tirespin.

    Our Forester laughs at the same amount of snow. :D

    And before the Ody guys start saying Honda's system is better, my son's buddy got stuck going home after we went sledding. The next day his mom asked if I could pick him up - in the Forester. :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    If you get the 3.6R model, my guess is you will be delighted. With the 45/55 split, it's far more sophisticated than your old one.
  • jtny1jtny1 Member Posts: 18
    glad to here the lexus sucked in snow i almost bought one, glad i did not. I had a new equinox a 2007 it was good in snow but the new ones i think you had better get the 6 cly rather than the 4 the 4 just dosent seem like it fits the truck
    i love the subaru and with the added room i think its awesome, front seats were to cramped before. i like the subaru awd very much
    and for anyone that says awd is not needed i think your just jealous you dont have it, because the added feel to the road and security is awesome. unless i move to florida i would not own a car without it
    :surprise:
  • britgeezerbritgeezer Member Posts: 95
    Sorry but I can't agree with your statement. High tech 2 or 4 wheel drive has proved ineffective in the hills of NJ.

    However, if it works for you be happy.
  • Exactly. If it works for you, be happy.

    Sometimes you need to know when to turn off stability control, traction control, and even AWD. Most people don't encounter conditions where they cannot move at all without AWD (though some do). And then some who can get moving erroneously believe they have extra traction on ice to also turn and stop. So many of the vehicles I see in the ditches during truly bad weather are 4WD/AWD. Thirty percent of the driving population is genetically programmed to be unable to become one with their vehicle. No amount of experience or instruction will make them skilled drivers.
  • britgeezerbritgeezer Member Posts: 95
    Why is it that that most of that 30% seems to reside in New Jersey? :shades:
  • millwood0millwood0 Member Posts: 451
    "So many of the vehicles I see in the ditches during truly bad weather are 4WD/AWD"

    that's an adverse selection issue: people with 4wd/awd are more likely to brave the weather and get themselves stuck.

    with awd, you are paying (in the form of fuel consumption, complexity and reliability) for a feature that you rarely use. so depending on your driving habit, it may or may not be worth it.

    I had lived without awd for years in the snow belt and now I live in a place where no amount of electronic gadgets would get a 2wd car out of my driveway with the slightest amount of snow.
  • morin2morin2 Member Posts: 399
    Too bad the data on vehicles seen in ditches, on their roofs (!) stuck on guard rails, etc. is mostly anecdotal. When there's any snow on the ground, I usually wonder how many Explorers I will see crashed on the way. It can't be all vehicle related - must Explorer drivers spend their common sense, donate a part of their brains, as part of the purchase price?

    Whether driving FWD, AWD or 4WD, I am less concerned about the conditions than I am with the bozos on the road. Appropriate speed and following distance are skills so few seem to understand.

    A hypothetical question I ask my kids: A road-rage speeding maniac riding your rear bumper before blasting past you and flipping you off as you drive safely for the snow/ice conditions, wrecks a mile later. Do you stop and help?
  • millwood0millwood0 Member Posts: 451
    "Too bad the data on vehicles seen in ditches, on their roofs (!) stuck on guard rails, etc. is mostly anecdotal. "

    statistics is nothing more than a collection of anecdotes.

    "Do you stop and help?"

    if you are a nice person, yes.

    if you care about the long term evolution of human genes, no.
  • prigglypriggly Member Posts: 642
    Short answer, "no."
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I am less concerned about the conditions than I am with the bozos on the road

    That is precisely why my Miata stays parked. It's been buried in 2 feet of snow since last Saturday, and will remain there a few more days.

    My wife's kinda tired of me borrowing her Forester, though.
  • morin2morin2 Member Posts: 399
    What? You don't have "his & her" Subarus? My wife prefers her Forester and I prefer my Outback - so we must have one of each. My pickup is still covered like your Miata - you may have gotten more snow than we did in Calvert Co.

    Your Miata is not indoors? I hope it forgives you.
  • gmginsfogmginsfo Member Posts: 116
    Great post re: "manual climate control." It's just not that hard to fine tune the levers to get them temp and airflow you want, where you want it, and I prefer manual mode any day. Call me a control freak, but my passengers never complain. My CC could be better, in terms of holding its speed, but it's OK.

    Speaking of the joys of manual accessories, the auto-dim rearview mirror on my 2003 Forester died a few weeks ago. Its' front and rear pieces appear to have separated as I got into the car, and I watched as an amoeba-like blur spread over the mirror, effectively disabling it. Was a bit disappointed to see that I couldn't buy a manual, flip-style RVM but only a replacement auto-dimmer. That, and an increasing whine in the transmission, along with CR's bad report on 2003 Forester's engine repairs, are combining, with the federal sales tax credit that expires on 12-31, to drive me to buying an OB or Forester by then. But, I'm also looking at other cars, as I must say I'm a bit disappointed that my Forester has developed these problems after only 85K miles. But, I'm open to suggestions, so have at me! And a Merry Christmas to All!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Several good points...

    You don't have "his & her" Subarus?

    We tried the Tribeca, more than once. Even had a loaner for a full week. Loved it, don't get me wrong, but it has less cargo space behind the 1st row than my Sienna has behind the 2nd row (with 5 adult-sized seats). Much less (99 cubic feet to 70 something IIRC).

    I had to "take one for the team" in that regard. While I liked the Tribeca more, the van simply met the needs of the family a lot better. It also cost less.

    Your Miata is not indoors?

    Another case of me being unselfish, I suppose. We have a car port for 2 vehicles, so the Forester and the Sienna are there. The logic is simple - we can load the kids without anyone getting wet. If it's raining I usually don't take the Miata anyway (summer tires).

    That said, maybe I should get a cover for it? I finally cleared it out of the snow yesterday, so it was stuck for 6 days! :cry:
  • morin2morin2 Member Posts: 399
    That makes perfect sense. Too bad you're so unselfish - the Miata would be an excellent excuse, er I mean justification, to build another garage or combination garage-outbuilding for it. Yeah, we need a club for unselfish husbands...

    It must have killed you to see all that snow piled on the top while hardtops were under cover...How did the Miata soft-top handle all the snow weight?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    My 93 was a soft top, but my new 2008 model is a power-retractable hard top. Very nice, it's like a coupe when it's closed.

    So fortunately no issues with a soft, flexible top under lots of weight from 2 feet of snow. The old one may have torn. :sick:
  • shamrock13shamrock13 Member Posts: 8
    I'm trying to get some feedback regarding Bluetooth music streaming on the 2010 Outback. I've read this requires the Navigation system. Just wondering what any Outback owners experiences have been with Bluetooth music streaming...positive...negative?

    I would love to be able to stream the internet radio stations I listen to via my cell phone, but don't know if I want to go for the extra $$ for the Nav system. The 2010 Toyota Venza doesn't require the Nav to do this. I'm basically looking at both of these vehicles.
    Thanks!
  • saedavesaedave Member Posts: 694
    There is Bluetooth with the HarmanKardan audio system. I believe it is standard on the Limited and seems to be shipping as an option on some Premiums.

    Not all cell phones work with that system. A Motorola V3 does but a Moto Q does not. You may wish to check on compatibility of your phone.
  • icbmicbm Member Posts: 14
    In the market for a new vehicle, and would be moving from an Envoy. As I have not been able to get in for a test drive, and have been looking at the dealership online, I noticed that they list the prices at MSRP and the 'special' internet price is the same. I have never owned a Subaru before and wonder how the dealerships are with their prices? Its also going to be a hard sell as my father in law is a former GM employee, do I dare get the black sheep treatment?
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    Its also going to be a hard sell as my father in law is a former GM employee, do I dare get the black sheep treatment?

    Well ... GM is a former part-owner of Subaru (FHI). ;)
  • icbmicbm Member Posts: 14
    Rats...wonder if GM discount would have applied then. Im thinking of the Legacy as it has grown a little this last year, also liking the mpg increase we would see. Has anybody done any direct comparisons to the Ford Fusion AWD?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I test drove a FWD Mercury Milan, a clone. Perfectly competent car, but bored me half to death. I'd recommend it to my aunt, but for me, no thanks.
  • morin2morin2 Member Posts: 399
    Same situation as you - father-in-law retired from GM, so we combined a few GM family discounts with GM card rebates (before the combined GM Family card) for some great discounts. BTW, there was never any rebate on subaru products. F-I-L also not bothered in the least by all the subarus in the family now.
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    Has anybody done any direct comparisons to the Ford Fusion AWD?

    Unless they changed the Fusion lineup, you can't get AWD with the I4. Requiring a V6 to get AWD "kills the deal" for me.
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