All-New 2010 Legacy/Outback

ateixeira · February 2010

Same here for our 2009 Forester X Limited automatic (with Active AWD, 90/10 default). We had 22" the first wave of snow, then another 18" or so the 2nd round, and we got around the whole time, even while others were stranded.

So it still does the job. VTD just does it even better.

bigfrank3 · February 2010

You know, the more I think about it, in bad weather I am not so sure the VTD system is really better. In transient traction situations both systems react to the situation to provide the best result. In normal going in bad weather the 90/10 is not so bad considering that most of the weight is in the front of the vehicle. More power to the end of the vehicle without the benefit of the weight might not be beneficial as a starting point. I bet in slippery situations the VTD spends more time sending more split to the front since the rear wheels would be more likely to slip, than the 90/10 sending to the rear. This is not to say that either is bad, and given the fact that both systems are proactive based on sensor info gives both a big advantage over other reactive-only systems such as Toyota, Honda, Nissan, and others use. The 10 to 50 percent to the rear of the 90/10 provides a nice range for the light end of the vehicle.

In dry situations that isn't the case though, as the 45/55 provides more balance and driver "feel", as does the 50/50 of the viscous coupling with the manual transmissions. The best balanced vehicle I have ever driven with regard to traction was my first manual trans Forester with the 50/50. I believe that this is the main reason for why they do the 45/55.

ateixeira · February 2010

The best balanced vehicle I have ever driven with regard to traction was my first manual trans Forester with the 50/50

Same here. My 1998 model was a real soldier in the snow, great for drifting around corners in a controlled manner, wagging the tail, etc.

I put snow tires on it towards the end and actually missed being able to break traction. It was TOO good.

In a way I prefer the mechanical diffs over the electronic diffs (VDC) precisely because they allow some degree of slip.

xwesx · February 2010

Yeah, I would really prefer the limited-slip differential in my manual Forester. With the winter tires I have on it, I find it very difficult to slip. Even if I turn of the VDC and spin the wheels, the open differentials and impressive tire traction make it difficult to whip the car around.

By the way, I found the local ice track last weekend with the kids. I was in the Forester and drove around part of it, but thought better of playing on it after watching an old Legacy wagon slam into a snow bank. I thought, "what would my wife do to me if I damaged her car while playing out here?" :surprise:

So, I got off the track and instead climbed the side of the adjacent dike a couple of times. The kids thought that was hilarious and asked me to do it again, and again, and....

nicolepare · February 2010

I've had my '10 Outback for about a month and am experiencing the same reception problems with the FM radio. It has gotten worse in the past month. I'm at the point where I can't listen to the radio without getting interference or some other form of static on every station I have preset. I am going to call the dealer today, but thought I'd see if this was a known problem.

Has anyone had any luck with this?

mike1944 · February 2010

previous legacy's had a limited slip differential, but from what i've been able to research, the new cvt doesn't. has subaru compensated for this with something that will perform this function,or have they dropped it altogether from the cvt models.

ateixeira · February 2010

They basically replaced the mechanical differential with VDC, or Subaru's traction/stability control system.

The good part is that now both axles are "managed". Before it was only the rear axle.

doggrandma · February 2010

If you read the consumer reviews here on Edmunds, you will discover that several people believe the 4 cylinder does not have adequate power. You may not need the extra power all the time, but it is good to have for merging, passing, etc.

Let us know which vehicle you get and how you like it.

evergreen · February 2010

I am new to Subarus as my wife has been wanting a RAV4. She has a sedan now and I think she will find it easier to put her groceries in the trunk of a sedan rather than opening that rear gate with attached tire on the RAV4. Hence, I am doing a little research on the Legacy. I am not sure but it seems the 2010 model was introduced in the fall of 09. Are new Subaru models usually available in Aug./Sept.? I am a bit hesitant to buy the first year of a major overhaul like the 2010 Legacy although I have only heard of a couple of potential problems with the 2010 model. Maybe they got it right the first time.

lasubeguy · February 2010

I have a 2010 Legacy Limited...now with about 2200 miles on it...the radio doesn't have an equalizer system per se in this trim level without nav but it can be tweaked fairly simply for a great sound...not sure what you prefer, I tend to go the standard bass over treble for most, 60-70% bias to the rear speakers, just behind the driver's seat...that works for me. The classical station especially is amazing and the local high output rock stations sound fantastic too...my iPod/iPhone music sounds best of all though, and I don't have the upgraded media pack. The compass/self-dimming mirror is an option you have to order--I'm very happy with mine, and it includes the 3 garage interface too. I'm about 97% thrilled with this car...except that there's a boat-like creaking sound that seems to come from the dashboard when I accelerate and the cabin is music-free. VERY annoying and very slight but I've always had tomb-quiet Subarus and don't like this creak. It isn't a rattle, nor a squeak...but reminds me of the sound of a big cruise ship on rough water :surprise: ....it CREAKS....hope that helps.

lasubeguy · February 2010

Go with the silver outside and dark charcoal inside. Silver is safe--highly visible on the road--and it doesn't show dirt. Black inside is WAY better than the taupe alternative, especially at the bottoms of the doors, which get seriously scuffed up.

ateixeira · February 2010

FWIW my Miata has an all-black interior and the bottom of the doors and door sill protectors show scuffs, too. Even the outside of the map pockets have marks.

birdboy · February 2010

I agree, I had 2 black interiors and they showed scuffs, mud,scratches etc. I have the black exterior and Ivory inside and it is so very soft , open feeling, and the wood trim just finishes it off sweetly. I will however need to remove my nephews shoes as he likes to kick the seat back!Fortunately the lower area where you put your feet is black.It just seems that there is always of trade off when it comes to cars..BTW, any good ,easy, leather cleaners recommended?

ateixeira · February 2010

Can someone go to the About screen and tell me what version the maps are?

Is the supplier NAVTEQ like for Garmin?

britgeezer · February 2010

Our 3.6R limited auto should arrive in 10 days now .. 15 weeks wait.

The point you miss about 45/55 fixed vs 90/10 variable is when the damned electronics decides to switch on you when in a corner, steady speed on unplowed roads and the big one, going down hill in snow / ice conditions.

I like to be in control - its a more predictable and for me a safer drive.

If there was a 50/50 split hold button that would do the trick.

A previous infinity FX45 had such a button, but the wise electronics turned it off above 25 mph allowing it to go back to fat tire RWD - not good.

Have had several AWD and 4WD cars and much prefer the fixed ratios and full time 4 wheel.

My wife summed it up during the test drive, this drives like your BMW 330Xi

bigfrank3 · February 2010

Good luck with your new vehicle, I stopped waiting and bought another Forester.

The 45/55 is NOT fixed, it also is variable, just a different starting point. VTD is Variable Torque Distribution.

elena_l · February 2010

Thanks for your input! I am trying to talk myself into silver. I find it kind of boring, but i tend to be a color person, not a neutral (color) person; thus my consideration of the dark blue. I DO like the idea of a car not showing dirt, and visibility doesn't hurt either!

As of yesterday i realized i would be happy with either the silver or blue exteriors. My biggest concern is now with the fabric in the Limited. It is cheap, shiny polyester. I don't know why Subaru can't use a soft (fuzzy) fabric like Toyota uses :confuse: .

I DO like the fabric on the Limited (leather trimmed), but don't want to pay the extra $1000 to have it installed after market (would be willing to pay half that amount). Am not really interested in the other options that come with the Limited to pay the extra $$$.

elena

THANKS TO ALL WHO RESPONDED TO MY PREVIOUS MESSAGE. All your comments are much appreciated!.

gened1 · February 2010

"Our 3.6R limited auto should arrive in 10 days now .. 15 weeks wait" I've seen that your handle is britgeezer are you living in England? If so maybe it's because you're a long way from the factory?
I have checked local inventories in the upstate NY area and find a very low number of Legacies at each dealership within say 75 miles of the Syracuse, NY area. The dealer went as far as Vermont and Massachusetts and can't find me a 2.5 limited in Ruby Red Pearl. Most seem to be premium or GT's and in gray or blue. Gray is out because the impala we will be losing is that color and we wanted a different color,and blue because of the light colored interior and while we would love it our grandkids would ...well you get the idea. Can't figure out why the limited is in such short supply. The dealer I ordered from stated that 6-8 weeks was the usual wait time 15 weeks seems odd. I hope I don't have to wait that long. My other car is a Toyota Solara Convertible and the three grandkids will have a tough time in the back seat. (I may have to leave the wife home!!)

ingvar · February 2010

Got new 3.6 limited, LOVE the car!!!! Use to drive is350 as a daily driver. Subaru's AWD simply AWESOME!!! Don't understand why I wasted my time with lexus

britgeezer · February 2010

Actually we live in NJ and bought in CT because we got a good price. At the time of our order in NJ there were many 2.5's available and but 3.6R's only in tree hugger green and a few others that were just not our choice of color combinations.

We wanted the light interior - since we have found black is not that easy to keep clean either - add the sunroof to 3.6R and limited and the 6-8 weeks becomes 15 for orders placed in November. They said even longer if you wanted Navigation.

The communication system between SOA and SNE doesn't help either, they still use semaphore.

britgeezer · February 2010

Yes of course, I see your point there and understood VDC would move %t about.

But when I'm going down hill on the badly cleared snow / ice with multiple bends, the starting point of 45/55 when the transmission is effectively driving the engine is very much more predictable. My 2 cents.

Most cars can get up the hill, I could with my old Delta 88 FWD, but the number of modern AWD cars that wreck wheels on the corners would amaze you.

Of course a lot of that can be blamed on the drivers after all it is NJ ....

Still waiting ....

ateixeira · February 2010

My wife summed it up during the test drive, this drives like your BMW 330Xi

I'm sure that was very much intentional. They wanted to give it a sporting, almost RWD feel.

It's a high complement that she's comparing it to a car that is $10 grand or more higher in price, too.

ingvar: congrats!

PS Anyone know the version of the maps on the Navi?

ingvar · February 2010

Danke schoen. I impressed with build quality and driving capabilities of the car. Now I belong to the Subaru clan:-)

xwesx · February 2010

evergreen - the 2011 model should be available at dealers in the July/August time frame. The new model year tends to be in shipment in the May/June time frame, so arrival at dealerships vary. Subaru usually has the website updated for the following model year by August.

saedave · February 2010

I bought a Forester XT instead of a 3.6R.

After carefully considering the lack of folding mirrors and extra width along with unsatisfactory Outback color choices I replaced my 2005 Outback 3.0R VDC with a Sage Green 2010 Forester XT Limited. It actually saves very little cost compared to the 3.6R Outback with the same equipment, but is easier to drive in the city. I am considering adding BlueConnect which my dealer is offering me at his cost, but may use a visor mounted BlueAnt unit instead.

Has anyone tried BlueConnect yet?

doggrandma · February 2010

I have only been able to find one 6-cylinder Outback in our entire state! I think Subarus are more popular farther north, so our selection is limited.

evergreen · February 2010

thanks xwesx....if the 2011 units are shipping in May/June, there should soon be some info on the internet about any possible changes. I don't imagine there will be any significant changes, though.

xwesx · February 2010

Yes; usually that information is known by/in April.

evergreen · February 2010

I have been checking the inventories at the many Subaru dealers in Oregon, Washington and Idaho. I am a little surprised at the lack of Legacies with the 3.6 engine. Is there any kind of problem with that engine that makes the 2.5 so much more plentiful/popular? I would think more horsepower would be desirable, especially in states with mountains.

eps105 · February 2010

You've got it backwards -- there's no problem with the 3.6; rather, the 3.6 is so surprisingly popular that Subaru can't make enough of them to keep on the lots. Crippling this is the fact that the 3.6 engines and transmissions are built in Japan and shipped to Indiana, so there's quite a lag in the supply chain for Subaru to catch up.

The fact that the new engine makes a lot more HP than last year's, all while using regular unleaded and available at a much lower price point than the 2009's, conspired to catch Subaru planners off-guard.

If you like power and smoothness, trust me it's worth the wait.

eps105 · February 2010

Juice,

The 2010 Outback/Legacy nav version remains at V2.2. Check here for more information: http://store.kenwoodusa.com/subaru/

I do not know who supplies the map source data, but the OEM is Kenwood, so if you look at some of their other products you can probably figure it out.

ateixeira · February 2010

Thanks Elliot.

wemburke · February 2010

The following is from the "full spec's" section of the online Subaru brochure. Was also in the hardcopy brochure I got from my dealer months ago:

Continuous All-Wheel Drive - Models equipped with 6-speed manual transmissions utilize a viscous-type locking center differential with torque distribution normally configured at a 50/50-split front-to-rear. If wheel speed differs between front and rear axles, the system helps distribute power to the wheels with the most traction.

Active All-Wheel Drive - Models equipped with Lineartronic CVT utilize an electronically controlled variable transfer clutch to distribute power to where traction is needed. Sensors monitor parameters such as wheel slippage, throttle position and braking, to help determine torque distribution and direct it to the wheels with optimum traction.

Variable Torque Distribution (VTD) All-Wheel Drive - Models equipped with 5-speed automatic transmission utilize an electronically controlled variable transfer clutch in conjunction with a planetary-type center differential and a viscous-type limited-slip rear differential. Torque distribution is normally configured at a performance-oriented rear-wheel-biased 45/55-split front-to-rear. Sensors monitor parameters such as wheel slippage, throttle position and braking to help determine torque distribution and direct it to the wheels with optimum traction.

evergreen · February 2010

Thanks for the response. I am glad it is a good engine.

birdboy · February 2010

have 300 miles on my 2.5 limited. I am noticing that when I get to 60-70mph I feel a vibration in the steering wheel. Is this normal? it is also more pronounced on uneven roads.I do not notice it at speeds under 55. Your comments are very appreciated.

naga1 · February 2010

It's a known, and so far basically unsolved, problem for a significant minority of 2010 Outback owners, including me. And it's more serious than just vibration: many owners also complain of an accompanying loss of steering feel and wandering at highway speeds. See here for 44 pages (and counting) of commentary:

http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20843

tomme12 · February 2010

Found a 2010 with 6k miles. How much off of dealer invoice should I be paying for this? Im guessing around 3k off invoice or is that silly?
Thanks!

rsholland · February 2010

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/blogs/driving-it-home/older-buyers-a-worry-for-su- baru/article1479959/

Something for Subaru to worry about?

Bob

xwesx · February 2010

Perhaps. I am not surprised though, given the f-ugly appearance of the new Outback. I have to wonder how the other models in the lineup compare in terms of average buyer age. I suspect that the Impreza, especially, appeals to an overall much younger demographic. When I see folks driving those, they tend to be very young (20s?) or very old (>65); size may be a player here, but I suspect that cost is the most significant factor. I have a couple of friends with Imprezas who say they prefer the Outback (last gen, I couldn't comment on the 2010) but could not afford it.

rsholland · February 2010

or very old (>65)

That's me. I turned 65 three weeks ago, and have an '09 WRX.

POWER TO THE GEEZERS!

Bob

gened1 · February 2010

We're all 18 until we have to get up from the chair!
However if it doesn't hurt it doesn't work!
Luckily we can drive sitting down!

birdboy · February 2010

Thank you Naga1. this is what makes this forum so very helpful for all of us.I have an appointment tomorrow and will post outcome of steering wheel vibration.

wemburke · February 2010

This article leads off with the statement that the new Outback is longer than its predecessor - not true. I tend to dismiss articles trying to make a point when their basic easily checkable facts are off.

ateixeira · February 2010

I don't think it's a big concern...

I'd expect the Outback to have older buyers than the Legacy simply because it has a longer travel suspension that is likely more compliant.

Forester buyers would be younger than that, and Impreza owners the youngest.

I'd wager a guess at the age of Tribeca buyers, expect they aren't many! Probably more family types with kids.

gened1 · February 2010

Not sure if the Outback has mechanical or electronic steering and throttle but it just seems that the further away we get from mechanical controls of vehicles the more problem areas we will encounter. I still maintain that Toyota has electrical control problems no matter what they say. It would be just like a car company to say they fixed one thing and, with out admitting it, fix the associated real cause of the problem. After all doesn't problem floormats or gas peddle sound better than electronic control module faults? Then when it is brought for repair the gas peddle and ecm are switched out with the consumer none the wiser.

ateixeira · February 2010

Steering is rack-and-pinion I belive, but the assist can be hydraulic or electric.

Nowadays the throttle systems are by-wire, i.e. no mechanical connection between the pedal and the engine.

rsholland · February 2010

Just because they get one figure wrong doesn't mean all their facts are wrong.

One more point: This is a Canadian article. From what I've heard, because Subarus are much more expensive up there, Outback buyers have traditionally been somewhat older than here in the States.

Bob

gened1 · February 2010

this site might be of interest to Subaru owners
http://www.subaru-sia.com/

It mentions that Toyota Camrys are built at the Indiana plant. I'm wondering if that might be the reason that Subaru's aren't found in greater numbers in dealers inventories in the New England states including NY. It may be that they are dealing with the Camry problem!!

britgeezer · February 2010

Absolutely

britgeezer · February 2010

The "problem" is demand exceeds supply. Made worse by hitting an edge of the market (us oldies) that wants the limited package and 3.6 engine - (its a downsize of vehicle and engine from our current cars)... It takes time to ramp up production and ship the engine from Japan - even if final assembly is in Indiana.

All-New 2010 Legacy/Outback

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