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2009 GRAND CARAVAN/T&C FEED BACK
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Comments
Thanks for being here,
Former mechanic, current engineer and auto enthusiast. :shades:
"As for what the 4.0 has we will see very soon. LOL"
How about a page from the parts guide?
"The dealer told me not to put anything in my vehicle except 10W30. Do you have a reference that it is ok to use 0W30 in my 4.0?"
Sorry to say it, but some of the absolute worst advice I've ever gotten about cars and their maintenance has come from the service departments of the dealerships where the cars were purchased. Regarding what is acceptable for use in your car, the technical specifications call for oil that meets the DaimlerChrysler Material Standard MS-6395 oil specification and is at least a 10W-30. What that means is that you need an oil that meets the following criteria:
1) A thirty grade oil when the oil is hot
2) An oil that is graded no higher than 10W when cold
3) An oil that meets MS-6395
Said another way, you need an oil that is either 0W-30, 5W-30 or 10W-30 AND meets MS-6395. While it may well be true that most conventional "something-W-thirty" oils that meet MS-6395 are of the 10W-30 grade, that same basic rule doesn't hold true for synthetic oils. Case in point, Mobil 1 0W-30, 5W-30 and 10W-30 are all certified to meet MS-6395. Given that a 0W-30 oil will pump faster and reach critical engine parts sooner (compared to the other two grades) following a cold start (regardless of temperature, but more so when it's cold outside), there is only one oil that I would use in a new 4.0 liter engine, and that's the 0W-30 offering.
BTW, it seems that more than a few of us on this thread are former military. Semper Fi!
Best regards,
Shipo
FWIW, I significantly added to my post after you responded to the first chunk. You might want to page back and look at the rest of it.
Best reggards,
Shipo
Any one know if there are any warranty issues with synthetic oil use?
PS. you can tell Shipo is a pilot, hes got that precision thing down. I was hoping to get my multiple engine cert before I was 50 but my wife wont let me fly now that we have kids. Don't sweat the military thing, life experience is our greatest strength, even if we get that pit of the stomach nervous feeling just thinking about it. (like I do)
Dave
Geez, is it that apparent? :confuse:
Best regards,
Shipo
BTW/ I called 3 dealers and e-mailed the home office and they would not bite on 0W30 right after I bought the vehicle. I am concerned about the oil being too thin do to the assembly/ engineering tolerances of all the parts. I am really gun shy about doing something the dealer tells me not to do.
Also Shipo doesn't eat bananas so he can't be a pilot. LOL
Did that for 20 fraking years and don't ever care to do it again. Very painful. (B-52IP)
www.dodgeparts.com
"BTW/ I called 3 dealers and e-mailed the home office and they would not bite on 0W30 right after I bought the vehicle."
Not at all surprising, folks who work for the dealers aren't exactly all that knowledgeable about the equipment they sell and support; I suppose if they were they'd be working for the mother corporation designing the vehicles instead of selling and maintaining them. Like I said before, some of the absolute worst automotive related maintenance advice I've ever heard came from the mouths of service technicians and service managers.
"I am concerned about the oil being too thin do to the assembly/ engineering tolerances of all the parts. I am really gun shy about doing something the dealer tells me not to do."
I'm not at all sure I understand that. In spite of the "0W" grading of the cold flow properties of 0W-30 oils, the fact remains that they are still way too thick when cold for anything other than moderate driving until the engine (and the oil) warm up. By definition, once warmed up there should be virtually no difference between the flow and viscosity properties of 0W-30, 5W-30, 10W-30 or even straight 30 weight oil.
"Also Shipo doesn't eat bananas so he can't be a pilot. LOL
Did that for 20 fraking years and don't ever care to do it again. Very painful. (B-52IP)"
Twenty years? Ouch, my hat's off to ya. I'm more of a glider and tail dragging Cessna 170B kind of guy.
Best regards,
Shipo
That said, the oil pan gaskets aren't known for leaking on these engines, however, the valve cover gaskets are. I'm thinking that I'd find a good independent mechanic and get a second opinion.
Best regards,
Shipo
trivia /// How do you check the oil in the transmission when you drain it? Does the dealer have a magic dip stick. Crap.
Best regards,
Shipo
Anywho; test drove the Honda Odyssey EX, & Chrysler T&C Touring w/25th Anniversary package this past week.
Gotta say of these 2 I liked the Chrysler better; more supple ride along with less wind/road noise. The Honda did however have better handling (hell it's a mini-van so it's rather a moot point IMO), & the engine was more powerful/responsive/refined (the T&C had the old but true 3.8L pushrod V6).
Before I make my final decision I'll have to test drive the Sienna, but for now me likey the T&C.
I found the tensioner assembly with no diagram.
The financing deals are over and you are on your own or GMAC. ARGH!
Bankrupt automaker identified four facilities set to shut down by end of 2010 in its Chapter 11 filing; almost 5,000 jobs at risk.
The Sterling Heights assembly plant is one of four Chrysler plants identified to be closed in a bankruptcy court filing Friday.
DETROIT'S DOWNFALL
New loans for car dealers - but will they help?
Chrysler aftershocks to hit industry hard
Speed of the essence: Chrysler lawyer
Chrysler set to close four plants
Auto sales plunge, but outlook improves
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Bankrupt automaker Chrysler LLC identified four plants with almost 5,000 jobs between them slated for closure by the end of next year, according to a filing with the bankruptcy court Friday.
The plants on the chopping block are the Sterling Heights, Mich., assembly plant that makes the Chrysler Sebring and Dodge Avenger; the St. Louis North assembly plant that builds the Dodge Ram pickup; the Twinsburg, Ohio stamping plant and an engine plant in Kenosha, Wisc.
The St. Louis plant could close as soon as this September, while the Twinsburg plant is slated to close by March. The Kenosha plant would be shut in October 2010 while Sterling Heights would close in December 2010.
While the Chrysler media site lists almost 4,700 jobs at those four plants, company spokesman Ed Garsten said the company is not announcing job cuts as part of the filing. He said the company could transfer these workers to new facilities depending on how fast it starts production of new Fiat cars for the North American market.
0:00 /1:34Chrysler workers react
In addition, the filing identified the Detroit Axle plant as being closed, but that facility, which employs about 1,650 workers, was previously set for closure. Most of the workers are expected to be transferred to a more efficient plant now under construction, Garsten said.
The Conner Avenue plant in Detroit, where 115 workers make the niche Viper muscle car, will not stay with the company after bankruptcy, according to the filing. But Chrysler had already said that the Viper model and the plant were up for sale.
A plant in Newark, Del. and another one St. Louis that are already closed will not be part of the company after it emerges from bankruptcy either.
The company has just under 39,000 U.S. employees who are affected by the company's bankruptcy filing Thursday. Chrysler also said in its filing that 23 plants in North America will remain following the company's exit from bankruptcy.
The company and the United Auto Workers union filed petitions to keep the new labor deal, ratified by membership late Wednesday, while the company is in bankruptcy.
But virtually all of Chrysler's plants will be shut down for the 30 to 60 day period that the company expects to be in bankruptcy. During that time, Chrysler will work to close a deal to join with Italian automaker Fiat. Workers will be paid about 80% of their normal pay during this temporary layoff.
The word 'bankruptcy' sounds scary but there's good news here, too.
Prices on new and used Chrysler cars will probably drop, at least for a while, on news the company is filing for bankruptcy.
Photos
Fiat: Chrysler's Italian style
Americans could see some fresh Italian faces as Chrylser's deal with Fiat takes shape View photosFind your next Car
DETROIT'S DOWNFALL
New loans for car dealers - but will they help?
Chrysler aftershocks to hit industry hard
Speed of the essence: Chrysler lawyer
Chrysler set to close four plants
Auto sales plunge, but outlook improves
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The word "bankruptcy" in headlines along with the name of the company that made your car - or a car you're thinking about buying - could send your blood pressure soaring.
Now relax. While, this may not be the best news you could have heard, it's far from the worst.
"I'm more reassured," said Jack Nerad, executive editorial director at the automotive data company Kelley Blue Book, "I think people should be reassured."
There's actually far more certainty regarding the future of Chrysler today than there was even a week ago.
With Chrysler continuing to operate, your warranty will still be intact and there will still be Chrysler dealers out there to service your car. There may be fewer of them in the future, as Chrysler has said it intends to reduce the number of dealers, but they will be there.
That's because, in the past few days, deals have been worked out with Chrysler's major debt holders, the United Auto Workers and the Italian automaker Fiat, which stands ready to enter its deal with Chrysler as part of bankruptcy proceedings.
What all this means is the company is not going to go belly up right now and, quite possibly, not in the foreseeable future. There are still significant risks for Chrysler but, on balance, the news is probably good for Chrysler and those who own its products.
Through the bankruptcy process and the deals it has already made with lenders and its unions, Chrysler will have cleared away a huge swath of problems.
That could ultimately leave Chrysler able to concentrate on things like better cars and trucks.
The Fiat deal will help a there, too, by giving Chrysler access to Fiat's fuel efficient small cars as well as engines and transmissions that can be used in Chrysler-designed products.
In the long term, there are still significant risks for Chrysler. It's not certain how well the partnership with Fiat will turn out. Chrysler's restructuring is not solely in the hands of Treasury Dept., a bankruptcy judge will have the final say. Still, Treasury's plan for the company's future will most likely hold.
If you're thinking about buying a Chrysler car or truck, one difference you will encounter is who finances your car. From here on out it'll be GMAC, not Chrysler Financial.
In the short run, a lot of consumers probably will be scared away from Chrysler showrooms. Many are likely to even avoid Chrysler's used cars.
"I've got to think that hearing 'bankruptcy' attached to a brand will diminish their value," said Nerad.
The change in value wouldn't be enormous, he said, only because there's been a cloud over Chrysler for a long time. That cloud will begin to clear as people realize that Chrysler isn't about to go away.
This means that, if you're thinking of trading in or selling a Chrysler, Dodge or Jeep product, this wouldn't be the time to do it. Wait until things settle down a little more, when consumers get used to the idea that Chrysler has not gone bust.
For now, Chrysler is still here and has been given another chance to win back customers.
Best site for covers of all types.
Took a Sienna LE8 out for a spin last night; thought it was nicer than the Odyssey EX (Sienna has a softer ride/less road noise), but the Mrs, & I still like the T&C better
Now if we can only get this bloody re-financing done.
Is the sport tuned suspension on the Dodge GC anything like the Odyssey?...We test drove the Odyssey, & didn't care for the ride since we could feel every crack/bump from the wonderful roads here in WI (heavy on the sarcasm - roads here are pretty bad)...The standard suspension we had in the T&C seemed quite nice.
Thanks in advance!
The thing is, there is, in my mind at least, little doubt that the 4.0 will be capable of running for hundreds of thousands of miles as well.
Best regards,
Shipo
The Mrs likes the looks/styling of the T&C more so than the GC; not many 4.0 in the T&C so it looks like I may be "stuck" with the 3.8; no big deal to me since I'm more concerned with long-term reliability than just about anything else.
Test drove the Sienna LE8 last week; nice, but we still like the T&C best.
FWIW, I ran/run Mobil 1 in both engines, and once outside the warranty period I switched them from the 0W-30 grade to 0W-40. I've had three Used Oil Analysis tests run on oil from each van and per the results, the 0W-40 is good to go for about 12,000 miles (altough to be on the safe side I target my oil changes at 10,000 miles).
Best regards,
Shipo
Your expert comments/feedback would be appreciated...
We got a 2009 T&C 25 Anniv Edition 28L Pkg & 4.0 engine upgrade a month ago. In addition, we got the B2B (not exactly but close) Maxcare Lifetime/Unlimited Miles warranty from Chrysler ($1875).
I have read your detailed comments on 0W-40 on your other posts and want to ask what should be the recommended schedule for me to follow for oil changes moving forward, keeping in mind the lifetime warranty, some dealers' reluctance to add 0W-40 (from others' posts), etc., in mind? We intend to keep it until the wheels fall off.
I anticipate running on the current oil until the 1st oil chnage and would be interested in switching to your recommended 0W-40.
Thanks,
SS
In the case of both the 3.8 and the 4.0 liter engine, they call for oil that meets the Chrysler MS-6395 oil specification, primarily 5W-20 for the 3.8 and 10W-30 for the 4.0. However, given that I'm an absolute believer that the lower the first number and the higher (to a point) the second number, the better protected my engines will be, I'd most likely use Mobil 1 0W-30 for the life of either engine. Why? A few points:
- The 3.3 and 3.8 liter engines originally called for 5W-30 (and still do when sold in Europe), so "something-W-30" isn’t at all too thick.
- The 4.0 calls for 10W-30.
- Anything a conventional 5W-30 or 10W-30 can do, a synthetic 0W-30 can do better. Period, full stop, the end.
- Mobil 1 0W-30 and 5W-30 are the only "something-W-30" oils on the market other than 10W-30 that meet the MS-6395 oil specification.
The only other issue with regard to the lifetime warranty is that I'd be forced to stay with short oil change intervals (versus the 10,000+ mile changes that I'm using now).
Best regards,
Shipo
With short oil changes with 10W-30 (regular) compared to 0W-40 (or 30, synthetic), is the outcome in terms of engine protection and other benefits relatively the same?
I am asking if a higher frequency of lower performance (only comparatively) regular oil changes will compensate for the lack of higher performance synthetic oil?
If you are comparing two identical vehicles, one running 10W-30 conventional oil changed every three to five thousand miles, and the other running a synthetic 0W-30 changed every ten to twelve thousand miles, and both are started up once per tank of fuel and driven non-stop until the next fill-up is necessary, then there will be virtually no difference between the wear on the two engines.
However, given the superior cold flow properties of a 0W-30 compared to a 10W-30, if the two subject vehicles are driven in cold weather and/or are frequently cold-started and only driven a few miles per start, then the engine with the 0W-30 will last significantly longer, in spite of the fact that the engine with synthetic oil will be run much further per oil change.
Best regards.
Shipo
I'd been using Mobil 1 5W-30 since break in, and while I had the heads off, you could still see the factory cross-hatch honing marks in the cylinder bores.
The 3.3L, although down on torque in the GC, was an excellent engine, and typically delivered 26MPG on the highway while using the A/C. The only other engine-related part replaced over the 13 year period was one serpentine belt tensioner and a starter.
The bottom end on the 3.8/3.3 isn't the strongest in the world, but for everyday driving, this engine is very reliable. I'd vote for the 3.8L.
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f1cb076/92
Best regards,
Shipo
Will the warranty be voided if I insisted and used 0W-30 synthetic and changed oil every 10K miles.
I have not had an opportunity to go through the fine print on the warranty so am asking if you already have this information.
That said, it is my understanding that there is no way for Chrysler to "Void your warranty", however, any given dealer can refuse to perform any engine work should it become necessary; and if worse comes to worst, that will leave you to bring a law suit against them and Chrysler.
The 0W-30 isn't the issue as it's MS-6395 certified, however, the extended oil change interval is problematic. In theory at least, you can have your oil analyzed every so often, and that in turn will show you information that will most likely point to a problem if one is in the making, or (more likely) affirm that your engine is in good health and being properly lubricated. Such UOAs will further a case against those responsible for fixing the engine should such repairs ever become necessary, however, changing the oil in time is the cheapest insurance.
Were it that I had a new Chrysler with a "lifetime power train warranty", I'd opt for the Mobil 1 and simply change it when the maintenance system says to change it. Yes, I'll be throwing away oil that has plenty of life in it, but that's cheaper than having a UOA performed after every oil change, and cheaper still if I need to prove to a dealership that my vehicle has been properly maintained.
Best regards,
Shipo
Best regards,
Shipo
For reference, I am in Toledo, OH, and the temprature does go down to about -20 F. Also, we would be taking several short trips. I will keep everyone posted of my experience during the first oil change.
Best regards,
Shipo
Yahoo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2. Remove the dipstick tube cap.
WARNING: There is a risk of accident from vehicle starting off by itself when engine is running. There is a risk of injury from contusions and burns if you insert your hands into the engine when it is started or when it is running. Secure vehicle to prevent it from moving off by itself. Wear properly fastened and close-fitting work clothes. Do not touch hot or rotating parts.
3. Actuate the service brake. Start engine and let it run at idle speed in selector lever position "P".
4. Shift through the transmission modes several times with the vehicle stationary and the engine idling.
NOTE: When inserting dipstick special tool 9336, excess insertion force may cause the dipstick to slip past the stop on the bracket in the transmission oil pan. An approximate distance that the dipstick sould be inserted into the fill tube is 424 mm (16.69 in.).
5. Warm up the transmission, wait at least 2 minutes and check the oil level with the engine running. Push the Oil Dipstick 9336 into transmission fill tube until the dipstick tip contacts the oil pan and pull out again, read off oil level, repeat if necessary.
NOTE: The dipstick will protrude from the fill tube when installed.
6. Check transmission oil temperature using the appropriate scan tool.
7. The transmission Oil Dipstick 9336 has indicator marks every 10 mm. Determine the height of the oil level on the dipstick and using the height, the Transmission Fluid Temperature (TFT) as viewed with the scan too, and the Transmission Fluid Graph, determine if the transmission oil level is correct.
8. Add or remove oil as necessary and recheck the oil level.
9. Once the oil level is correct, install the dipstick tube cap