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2009 GRAND CARAVAN/T&C FEED BACK
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Comments
Dave
I guess you take it I am pissed. It seems everyone I talk too feels the same way and we waist billions on wars we will lose while our own borders get overrun. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
Now for something completely different as Monty Python would say, " buy the SXTL 4.0 with sport suspension while you can still get one."
Dave
Just because VW is a separate company does not mean Routan parts will forever be available as they come from Chrysler.
As I stated in an earlier post, are you going to have to travel to the nearest military post to get your government warranty backed vehicle serviced at the motorpool? Don't laugh, stranger things have happened.
Even if Chrysler disappears from the face of the earth tomorrow and there is no reliable parts supply from any Chrysler left overs VW is the same van almost verbatim in everything but body panels and some trim parts. If the Routan is off the market tomorrow VW will still be obligated as a manufacturer to maintain a 10 year parts supply for there vans and would likely see a profit in supplying Chrysler buyers with the same. VW is also uniquely positioned to buy up Chrysler facility and left overs at fire sale prices and I feel would be likely do so.
I'm sure we will all know a lot more come May1st. Regardless of deprecation or the outcome of a Chrysler bankruptcy I'm satisfied that I have the best van I could find, it meets my personal needs better than any competitor and at a fair price.
Lastly, when I worked in Kuwait I had several friends in the Army from Camp Doha who did repair work on every sort of vehicle the US military used and I thought they did fantastic work under the most adverse conditions. Id be happy to have the US Armed Forces work on my van, those people really do a Kick A** job! I love em. Plus I get to call Obama on the "Red phone" in the middle of the night and have him tow my van if I need it. Now that's service! What other auto maker can claim that?!
Dave
April 25, 2009: 10:09 PM ET
* Michigan Democrats say unions have made concessions
* Chrysler's fate remains uncertain
By Nick Carey
DETROIT (Reuters) - With just days to go for Chrysler LLC to reach agreements to cut labor and debt costs or face bankruptcy, members of Michigan's Democratic congressional delegation said Saturday the onus was now on the U.S. automaker's creditors to make concessions.
"The unions have come to the table over and over and over again and have taken huge cuts," said Senator Debbie Stabenow on the sidelines of a Michigan Democratic Party fundraising event in Detroit, the heart of the beleaguered U.S. auto industry.
"It is now incumbent on the creditors, in particular those that have taken public funds, to make some concessions and be a part of the solution," Stabenow said.
Chrysler, which is about 80 percent-controlled by private-equity firm Cerberus Capital Management LP, faces a Thursday deadline by the Obama administration to reach cost-cutting deals and cement an alliance with Italian carmaker Fiat SpA.
If the automaker fails to do that, Chrysler could see further U.S. government support withheld and face potential liquidation.
Michigan Democrats said the announcement Friday of a tentative concession deal between the Canadian Auto Workers union and Chrysler showed the unions were acting in good faith and it was now up to the creditors to follow suit.
The CAW deal would reduce hourly labor costs by C$19 ($15.70) and save Chrysler about C$240 million annually in benefits, time off, "legacy costs" and improved productivity, but not through lower base wages or reduced pensions.
That deal will be put to CAW-represented workers for ratification this weekend.
Talks on concessions between the United Auto Workers union and Chrysler continued Saturday. UAW President Ron Gettelfinger had been due to attend the fundraising event, but canceled his appearance because of the talks with Chrysler.
'NEW BATTLE LINES'
The U.S. auto industry has suffered from its worst sales in decades, with the recession and the credit crunch taking a heavy toll. Like Chrysler, General Motors Corp has received government aid. Ford Motor Co, the third member of the storied Big Three U.S. auto makers, has said it can restructure its business without government help.
"The unions have made a number of concessions to ensure the survival of Chrysler," said Representative Mark Schauer. "The question now is what the company's creditors will do."
"They have to look at the broad economic impact (of Chrysler collapsing) and not just their own short-term financial interest," he said.
In an impassioned speech to cheering attendees at the fundraising dinner, Michigan Democratic Governor Jennifer Granholm criticized Chrysler creditors that had received bailout money as part of the U.S. government's efforts to prevent a collapse of the financial system.
Those same banks and hedge funds have reported profits for the past few months, she said.
"This is going to be a tough week and new battle lines have been drawn," Granholm said. "Who knew they (Chrysler's creditors) would take that bailout money and then kill this great industry?"
Although Senator Carl Levin promised the audience that "we're doing everything we can to make sure they (auto workers) don't get sold out, Michigan Democrats said bankruptcy for the automaker could not be ruled out.
"If it comes to the liquidation of Chrysler as we know it, then we will push urgently for a rapid restructuring of the company," Schauer said. "There are too many jobs at stake."
Dave
Who drives the foreign minivan, you with the Canadian built Chrysler or those with the Princeton, IN built Sienna or Lincoln, AL built Odyssey?
As for "appropriate", well I guess if I am not in lock step then my opinion or comment is unwanted?
Your point about the Dodge Grand Caravan being made in a foreign country is well taken. My van sticker clearly states it was assembled in Windsor Ontario, just across the river from Detroit. If I remember correctly it is over 80% US components.
I don't have a problem buying a foreign car I have had them before and probably will again. That's also why I looked so hard at the Honda. (if as you point out it can truly be construed as a foreign car any more) What I want people to know about the Dodge Grand Caravan is that it was the all around best van of all the competing manufacturers I looked at for reasons I have previously stated. People will of course have to make there own decisions about what suites them best.
In 28 years you must have seen a bit. My hat is still off to the guys I knew at Doha. I saw them keep some sort of South African armored Unimog alive much longer than I would have thought possible. anything that moves in that blow sand is hammered hard. By the end I couldn't tell what was holding it together. Eventually it ended up being towed to the back gate check point to become a machine gun turret for the hired security personal. Sort of like a giant roasting pan on wheels. What a god awful machine.
Dave
I haven't!
Do you have the flashlight in the back of yours? What do you think about that?
Dave
Dave
Your order can be sent out rush or overnight delivery. Order by phone at 1-800-890-4038 and specify rush delivery. These orders must be received before 12:00 P.M. E.S.T. to be shipped overnight. Orders received after 12:00 P.M. or on the weekends will be shipped the next workday (Monday-Friday).
I am getting 24-25 around the area with mixed driving and 56.8 with my Prius. However do the math and at 4 times the size the GC is the winner.
I'm finding it hard to stay aware of how multifaceted all the options are, probably because I have never had such a loaded car before. Think I'll stay away from the synthetic oil until I have about 1500 miles on it. Noticed I'm already down a half a quart after only 350miles and I trust that's because its still in the break in period.
Any one experience any oil usage in the first few hundred miles?
Dave
The Mrs, & I test drove a T&C 25th Anniversary this evening; after letting it warm up for approx 10 minutes (while the saleswoman went over the van features) I noticed the distinct odor of burning oil as we were about to drive outta the dealer lot...I brought this to the attention of the saleswoman - she said that this was normal for most Chrysler products, & that after 100-150 miles the smells will go away :confuse:
That said the drive went well; smooth ride, better than expected acceleration from the 3.8L (Consumer Reports/Edmunds claim this engine is sluggish), the 6 speed shifted pretty smoothly (although rpms hit 4000 from 2nd to 3rd, & 3rd to 4th), & overall appearance/fit & finish seemed pretty good.
The low down:
MSRP - $34,405
Dealer price - $27,890 (incentives/rebates/free DVD included)
3.8 L
25th Anniversary Edition
DVD
heated leather seats
adjustable pedals
rear view back-up camera
remote start
Thinking of making them an offer via their website.
Best regards,
Shipo
The fact is that there are many areas where things need to get burned off, not the least of which is cutting oils on the exhaust systems as well as protective coatings designed for preventing rust during pre-purchase shipment and storage.
Best regards,
Shipo
Although I have to say I did not notice any smell on my BMW 330i. I do not have any experience with any other brands. BMW had 5 miles when we got it. OR perhaps, I was too excited to even notice. :-)
Dave
Best regards,
Shipo
44PSI
Signs of life from the embattled automaker emerge as the government's deadline for a viability plan approaches.
Chrysler will survive - source
Fiat, Chrysler to complete deal - source
Auto industry woes extend beyond U.S.
Chrysler debt deal reached
Banks will write down Chrysler debt - source
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- As the clock ticked down Wednesday on a government-imposed deadline for Chrysler LLC to prove its viability, expectations grew that the troubled automaker would survive.
Chrysler will not be forced to shut down, but the embattled company may still wind up declaring bankruptcy, according to a source familiar with the automaker's plans.
"Chrysler will survive and avoid liquidation, whether that happens in or out of bankruptcy remains uncertain at this point," a source familiar with the negotiations between Chrysler and the federal government told CNNMoney.com.
Those negotiations are expected to continue, possibly right up midnight Thursday, according two senior officials in the Obama administration.
The Treasury Department's auto industry task force found in late March that Chrysler was no longer viable as a stand-alone company.
In order to qualify for additional federal assistance to keep the company afloat, the task force said Chrysler needed to reach a deal with Italian automaker Fiat, with which it has had an "agreement in principal" since January, as well as with its creditors and unions on cost-cutting concessions. The government gave Chrysler until the end of April to accomplish those goals.
On Wednesday, the fate of Chrysler remained in doubt and many details about 11th hour negotiations to save it were unclear.
Fiat could finalize a deal with Chrysler even if the company is in bankruptcy, according to various reports, and may be close to doing so.
According to a report in the Washington Post, Chrysler Chief Executive Bob Nardelli would be replaced by Fiat management as part of a bankruptcy plan being finalized by Treasury.
The Obama administration, along with the Canadian government, would provide an additional $4 billion in financing while Chrysler is in bankruptcy, the Post reported. The U.S. would provide another $5 billion in support following a bankruptcy reorganization.
Under this plan, the United Auto Workers union's retiree health plan would get a 55% stake in the company, Fiat 35%, the U.S. government 8% and the Canadian government 2%, according to the Post.
Chrysler creditors would get $2 billion and no equity stake while Cerberus Capital Management, which now owns most of Chrysler, would get nothing, the report said.
Another major pending issue is how to resolve billions Chrysler owes lenders. Major banks that are among those that have lent Chrysler $7 billion have already agreed to significantly reduce that debt, Treasury Department sources said Tuesday.
And on Sunday, Chrysler and UAW leaders said they had reached an agreement on major concessions that would reduce Chrysler's labor costs.
The results of a vote by union members on that deal are expected Wednesday night.
The UAW has not released details of the proposed new labor pact, but the union has agreed to accept privately-held stock in Chrysler. The stock would go into a union-controlled trust fund that will be used to pay future health care costs for more than 55,000 Chrysler retirees and their family members.
CNNMoney.com senior writers Chris Isidore and Jennifer Liberto contributed to this story.
First Published: April 29, 2009: 5:19 PM
On another topic, what are the benefits or risks of Synthetic oil? Could you give a figure of fuel economy increase vs normal detergent oil?
Dave
Then the benefits...
- Better tolerance to extreme heat such as when towing in the summer.
- Better tolerance to extreme cold, or said another way, the oil will still flow through your engine even when
temperatures dip below minus thirty Fahrenheit.
- Much greater ability to hold contaminates, waters and acids in suspension without reacting to said
contaminates and causing sludge.
- Longer oil change intervals (a moot point during a warranty period).
- Much higher stability which translates to considerably less evaporation over any given period of time or miles.
FWIW, I ran our 1998 DGC 3.8 for 170,000 miles on Mobil 1, initially the 5W-30
grade until about the 40,000 mile mark when I switched to 0W-30, and then
switched again to 0W-40 at about the 75,000 mile mark. During the ten and a half
years we had that van I changed the oil every ten to twelve thousand miles (which
was the recommended OCI based upon three different UOAs), and when I traded
the old girl in, she was still running as well as the day I drove her off the showroom
floor and delivering about the best fuel economy it ever had to boot.
As a side note, back when the van had 143,625 miles on the clock I pulled the
heads off in search of an elusive slow coolant leak into the oil. Unfortunately I
didn't find a smoking gun (the problem turned out to be a bad "O" ring in the timing
chain cover), what I did find however was a spotlessly clean engine and that all six
cylinder walls were still sporting the factory honing marks. Not too shabby.
As for synthetic oil increasing fuel economy, don’t bet on it. I’ve read many-many
anecdotal accounts of synthetic oil magically improving fuel economy, however,
scientific testing says otherwise. Funny thing, when you look behind the numbers
of those claiming gains in the MPG department, you almost always find “other
factors”. Such as? The most common include changing over from a factory fill of
conventional oil to synthetic after the engine has broken in and changing over to
synthetic just as the weather starts getting warm. The truth of the matter is that
had the claimant simply stayed with conventional oil, their fuel economy would still
have improved.
Best regards,
Shipo
0W30 is the best but they may not allow that in the 4.0 GC since it requires 10W30. Wonder if 0W40 would work? Not sure why unless it is bad about pumping oil around the rings.
Some lenders refuse offer to reduce debt, leading to Chapter 11 bankruptcy filing. But Chrysler will remain in business and completes deal with Fiat.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Chrysler LLC filed for bankruptcy Thursday. But a deal has been reached to combine the company with Fiat in order to allow Chrysler to stay in business.
The bankruptcy filing, which was made in federal court in New York, comes after some of Chrysler's smaller lenders refused a Treasury Department demand to reduce the amount of money the troubled automaker owed them.
In remarks at the White House, President Obama said that the bankruptcy filing is not a failure for the company but "one more step on the path to Chrysler's revival."
Obama vowed the bankruptcy process would be quick, efficient and controlled. A senior administration official predicted it would be completed within 30 to 60 days. The combination with Fiat is also due to close during that period of time.
0:00 /4:21Fiat's big Chrysler challenge
According to government officials, a new company will be formed that will buy the assets of Chrysler - its plants, brands, land, equipment, as well as its contracts with the union, dealers and suppliers - from the bankruptcy court.
The company's liabilities and an unspecified number of Chrysler's 3,300 dealerships which now sell the Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep brands will be left behind in the bankruptcy court.
Administration officials said the Treasury Department will provide Chrysler with about $8 billion in loans on top of the $4 billion in loans it has already received to get it through bankruptcy.
Officials said $3.3 billion of the new loans will be used to fund operations during bankruptcy, while the remaining $4.7 billion will allow Chrysler to function normally once it exits bankruptcy. In addition, the Canadian government will loan the companies $2.7 billion to help support Chrysler's Canadian operations.
Jobs safe for now, but plants will close temporarily
While an administration official promised there will be no immediate job cuts for the company's 39,000 employees or plant closings, Chrysler announced that most manufacturing operations will be temporarily shut down on Monday, May 4. Normal production is not due to resume until the transaction with Fiat is completed.
But some Chrysler plants, including truck assembly and stamping plants in Warren, Mich., shut down earlier than scheduled on Thursday. Following the bankruptcy filing, some suppliers worried about being paid stopped shipping parts to the plants.
"I was hoping we could get through this unscathed," said Gene Behme, a production technician at the Warren stamping plant as he left work about an hour early. "I'm disappointed. I would like to keep working. Hopefully we'll come through stronger."
Chrysler President Tom LaSorda would not say how many plants would shut down early or how many suppliers had cut off shipments on the bankruptcy news.
"Hopefully most of the suppliers will continue to supply us," he said.
Most of Chrysler's hourly workers will receive about 80% of their normal pay during the shutdown under unemployment benefits and supplemental pay in the union contract.
The employees whose jobs may be most immediately in danger are the 3,400 workers of Chrysler Financial, which provides loans to Chrysler customers and its dealers.
That unit is essentially going out of business. As part of the reorganization, lending will now be provided by GMAC, the finance arm jointly owned by General Motors (GM, Fortune 500) and current Chrysler parent Cerberus Capital Management. (Cerberus will end up with no stake in Chrysler once the bankruptcy is complete and is in the process of cutting its stake in GMAC to less than 15%.)
Some of the 140,000 employees at Chrysler's network of dealers could also be at risk. Chrysler CEO Robert Nardelli said that the reduction in the network of 3,300 dealers would not be a "catastrophic" but that it would be "noticeable."
Nardelli, who joined Chrysler two years ago, will leave after Chrysler emerges from bankruptcy and completes the alliance with Fiat.
Fiat will be calling more of the shots after the combination as the deal calls for it to provide "management services" to Chrysler.
A successor for Nardelli will be named by the new Chrysler board of directors, which will have four members named by the Treasury Department, three named by Fiat, and one each by the UAW and the Canadian government.
Once the deal closes, Fiat will examine the cost structure of Chrysler to find additional savings. Fiat has promised to use Chrysler's existing plants to build the small cars it now sells in Europe for the U.S. market.
Last-minute deals ensured Chrysler's survival
Chrysler faced a midnight Thursday deadline from the Treasury Department to reach deals with creditors who had loaned the company about $7 billion.
But the troubled 85-year old automaker was able to avoid liquidation thanks to the deal with Fiat, concessions from the United Auto Workers union and agreements by major lenders to cut Chrysler's debt.
The UAW announced late Wednesday night that its membership at Chrysler had overwhelmingly ratified the agreement reached between the company and union leadership on Sunday night.
As a result of that deal, the UAW will own 55% of Chrysler. Fiat will own a 20% stake with the option of increasing it to 35%. The U.S. government will own 8% and Canada will have a 2% stake.
Major banks such as Citigroup (C, Fortune 500) and JPMorgan Chase (JPM, Fortune 500) agreed to reduce their portion of $7 billion in secured loans to a more manageable $2.25 billion, but talks with smaller lenders broke down Wednesday when they refused to meet a deadline set by the Treasury Department to accept pennies on the dollars for loans to Chrysler.
Nonetheless, the fact that Chrysler will not have a disorderly bankruptcy may prevent a rash of failures across the auto supplier industry that had the potential to disrupt production at other automakers.
Chrysler owes its suppliers about $7 billion, according to the latest figures available from the company. Some of those suppliers could still be hurt by the bankruptcy filing.
And the auto industry's woes are far from over. Sales have plunged due to the global recession and tighter credit. Major automakers are expected to report dismal April sales on Friday.
Chrysler has been among the hardest hit. It has fallen behind Toyota Motor (TM) in sales, and is close to being overtaken by Honda (HMC) for the No. 4 spot for U.S. sales.
In addition, GM faces a government-imposed deadline to restructure by the end of May or it too could be forced into bankruptcy.
CNN White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux and CNN senior correspondent Allan Chernoff contributed to this story.
Not to beat a dead horse but about the Synthetic oil, when would be the right time to make the switch? how long should I let it break in?
Also thanks to Shipo for the cylinder picture that information is truly amazing.
Dave
To say that I doubt your anecdotal claims is an understatement. Nothing personal, it's just that I've been reading such claims for many years, and never once have they been proven out. From a scientific perspective, synthetic oil of any given grade has the same general viscosity and "slipperiness" as conventional oil of the same grade. That being the case, to what do you ascribe the enhanced fuel economy you're claiming?
"As for a large car like the GC it is probably 1-MPG with the 44PSI being another 2 MPG. Try it and you will see for yourself. Don't trust me but prove it like you should for yourself."
I've been running synthetic oil in cars for the last thirty years (and over 1,700,000 miles) and never once have I seen a change in fuel economy when I switched the cars over to synthetic.
"0W30 is the best but they may not allow that in the 4.0 GC since it requires 10W30. Wonder if 0W40 would work? Not sure why unless it is bad about pumping oil around the rings."
Not true, Mobil 1 0W-30 is certified to meet all of the Chrysler oil specifications that are required for the new 4.0 liter engine.
"Always change all the oil rings, water pump, & tensioner assembly when you do the timing belt (assume we have one as I am still waiting for the CDs) Cheap insurance to say the least."
Change the oil rings when you change the water pump? Where on Earth did you get that? Assuming the engine is properly cared for, oil rings should easily last many hundreds of thousands of miles. That said, when you change the timing belt (yes, your 4.0 liter has a belt), it is always a good idea to change the water pump, however, I would be surprised to find that the 4.0 liter engine has a tensioner assembly for said timing belt.
Best regards,
Shipo