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Comments
One aspect to all this that gives me an uneasy feeling is what you are describing- You state your mechanic buddy and the service manager don't know anything about it. Really? All one has to do is look at toyota.com and you can see they have posted the following-
Posted to: Corolla, Toyota
Toyota Update
We are aware of complaints regarding 2009 and 2010 Corolla steering systems and are actively investigating the issue. While we have not received official notification from NHTSA, we will certainly cooperate fully with any NHTSA investigation. We’re committed to being responsive to our customers.
http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/toyota/toyota-update-154007.aspx?srchid=K610_- - p283604577
And with the formation of a new QA team and I'm pretty sure the service depts. at dealers have meetings to discuss issues just means to me that the level of communication through-out the company is lacking and doesn't sound very responsive to customers IMO. How can a company post something on their website for the world to see, and yet the dealer network doesn't know? You might buy that, but I don't. Add in the fact that amg1099 wasn't told a thing about his vehicle inspection. With all that in mind re-read the above article about the strategy in general. I am not saying they have/are done or doing anything wrong, but the emerging pattern is less than flattering for toyota IMO.
Update-
Had a left rear toe adjustment done on Saturday at the dealer (meaning it rolled from the factory out of alignment as mileage listed was only 567). Did not drive it on the freeway back home so I do not know if my issue has been resolved. Haven't had a chance to test drive it further. With the weather we are having now (wind/rain) I will check the issue over the next couple of weeks. But, I thought there was no way to adjust the rear? Some people say there is and some say there is not. If there is and people are reporting this issue why isn't the dealership jumping on this to re-align? Again, the communication and strategy to resolve this issue is lacking IMO right now.
For the record - I have only driven toyotas since '93 so I am a fan and not trying to bash toyota, but I still have no clear idea of what is going on and what the resolution is. Maybe with a little 'luck' my issue has been resolved. We'll see.
I think it's a design problem and that all 2009+ Corollas have the same built-in "wandering steering" effect at highway speeds, but only certain drivers seem to notice it.
I believe that many drivers are less sensitive to these sorts of things, and they have unconsciously adapted their driving styles by paying much closer attention to their steering during highway driving without even realizing that the car doesn't track as well as it should.
When I attempted to purchase a 2009 Corolla I noticed the problem immediately during the highway portion of the test drive, although the salesman was clueless about it. I really wanted this car, so I took three test drives in three different 2009 Corollas and they all had the same problem. Eventually I gave up and bought a Honda Civic instead (which, incidentally, has flawless steering and much better handling overall).
Since then I've rented a large number of other cars, and I've noticed that several other Toyota cars with EPS exhibit the same wandering steering effect, including both a Matrix and a Yaris Sedan. However, they weren't equally faulty. I would rank them in descending order as Corolla, Yaris, Matrix, with the Corolla being worst. So I don't think this is an issue that involves only certain "affected" Corollas. I think it's a global issue that's related to the steering geometry and the design of the EPS system in several models. My guess is that in future models Toyota will be modifying the steering to add better tracking at highway speeds, but in the meantime they would just like the issue to disappear, as they've got enough going on already.
It's unfortunate that the various Corolla owners who don't like their car's steering didn't realize it during the test drive, but in retrospect I guess it's not that surprising. Most likely the salesman was yakking the whole time, turning on the sound system, talking about how great the various features are, etc., and it's hard to concentrate under those conditions, let alone discover something entirely new and unexpected. Luckily I was able to shut my salesman up so I could focus on the car.
"They don't go home and surf Edmunds.com or Toyota.com. and try to read and learn about Toyotas"
You're exactly right. That is why Toyota spent millions to create their own exclusive VPN called Dealer Daily. So they do not have to surf and have one source for their info. - The company.
And as I pointed out the Company already put it on it's external website for the world to see. Since I can not access Daily Dealer to verify I will just assume the network was used to communicate this issue as well.
"Using Dealer Daily, Toyota can now deliver critical news and other information instantly to any user at any dealership across the country, Cooper says.
The company can also post critical messages that need immediate attention on Dealer Daily's home page and send targeted messages to users via the system's e-mail application.
"This is a leap, not a step, from where we were. Communication with the factory is now seamlessly integrated with the dealer management system," says Ron Napoli Jr., general manager for Toyota North in Mount Kisco, N.Y. "
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/73370/Dealer_Daily_Toyota_s_Communication- _Pipeline?taxonomyId=9&pageNumber=1
Also remember these 'its just a job to them' guys are certified as well.
Dantz that may be, but I don't believe that at this time since I have seen car clubs mod or bypass the EPS and say it the effect disappears. Also, the car I test drove did not exhibit this issue. The one I bought did. Again, I just had the rear re-toed and have not had a chance to test it further so my issue may or may not be resolved.
I tend to think it is how the EPS is tuned into the system as a whole. If not a safety issue/recall then toyota would still be in a position to possibly offer a remedy solution to those that think it is still to 'sensitive" (or what ever else you want to use to describe the issue). However, that might include a re-tune/recalibrate, etc., the system if at all possible (I don't know) or offer to switch it off altogether if that doesn't cause any additional ramifications to other systems on the car (again - I don't know if this is possible, but it does seem that others have done it already).
I don't think they will act until the NHTSA investigation is concluded. After that they still have options that they could consider is my point. Whether they choose to act or not at that point is entirely up to toyota.
If I were you I would try driving some other 2008 Sentras to see if they feel the same way (which I seriously doubt). Also, get one or two skilled independent drivers to test-drive your car. Then present both the dealer and Nissan with your independently verified results and convince them to fix your car.
Have you already tried searching the Sentra forum for "steering"? I notice that there are some similar posts in the "New Sentra Owners' Experiences" forum. You should also run a Google search on Sentra Electric Power Steering. And I suggest you start your own thread in the Nissan Sentra forum.
"Feedback" and "returning to center" is something you would expect from the old manual steering of the past. I haven't felt "returning to center" since those old'en days.
Ah yes, the good old days when cars actually used to go where we pointed them, back in the days of those (now hopelessly obsolete) mechanical/hydraulic components.
Since we're getting historical (but verging on the hysterical), I've heard that the earliest vehicles were built entirely of protoplasm! Yes, these were actual biological units that had to be whipped in order to make them accelerate, and they had steering problems too! But on the plus side, they could find their way home on their own.
I think that tomh54 means something differently than you when he says he is "fighting the steering". Perhaps you're "fighting" to keep your car pointed the way you want it to go, but I doubt if you're actually fighting the wheel itself as it unexpectedly yanks and pulls all by itself, as tomh54 describes. He apparently feels that he's getting way too much steering feedback, whereas the Corolla EPS is so smooth and disconnected that it could almost be described as video-game steering. In fact, tomh54 would probably be very pleased with the feel of the Corolla's steering. Perhaps he should trade up!
Thats when I went across the street and told the dealer where i got the car that i was scared to drive it, unknowing to me that the 2010 models have the same issue with EPS as the 2008 models they coerced me into a great deal on a 2010 model. I got a discount for Toyota "customer loyalty" the APR went from 17% to 1.6% and they kicked in maintenance for a year.
I was happy but a few days later I had to get on the highway and my happiness turned to to sadness and fear!
I wont drive on the highway unless I absolutely have to and if my grandson isnt in the car only. If he is in the car i have to go the long way. Ridiculous!!! to say the least,. Paying $20,000 and i cant take my Corolla on the highway. :lemon: :confuse: :P :mad:
Well, you're wrong there, I'm afraid. 2008 Corollas did not have EPS at all.
When I drove the car to Jacksonville, Florida two days later, I first thought I had a flat or the alignment was way off. I could not believe how bad the Corolla drove and I was pissed this is (was) a brand new car. Again, to shorten all the stories, I've written to my Georgia US Senator and State Representative and complained about the entire issue. My request is to have "another official investigation" into Toyota's many problems and specifically their denial to having any power steering problems with the 2009/2010 Corollas. It seem the news media picked up on the power steering problems back in February 2010, although I've heard nothing since.
Of course our dealership is no help at all and seems to go out of their way to avoid contact with us. I had the alignment checked at several Non-Toyota" car repair shops and they all say the alignment is set to correct factory specs. We also filed a claim and complaint with the National Highway Safety Board. I'll let you know what my response is from my US Senator & state rep. Good luck on your end and drive as safe as you can. Later
Hope you get some help...
When I was first contacted about Toyota wanting to test my car, I told the lady that the problem was resolved. But since I had filed with the NTSB, they were following up on each and every complaint. My problem was very improperly inflated tires and I never did a test drive either when I bought it from the dealer. I just drove it in the parking lot and couldn't control the car on the way home (1 hour away). The tire icon was lit on the dash board but I didn't know what it mean at the time. When I got home I called the maintenance dept and someone told me to check the tires. I found each tire reading a different psi and they were all well under what they were supposed to be at. The car was just delivered to the dealer and was never checked out. In fact, when I walked into the dealer parking lot the car was just unloaded. The salesman had said he had sent my car to the service dept and I had thought they would check everything out before I drove off. But they only cleaned it. It was my first buying experience and I have learned from it.
I never did hear from the TMS people about the finding on my car. They sent me a survey which I filled out but that's it. I do like the EPS enjoy driving the car now. And I check my tire pressure at least once a month.
Toyota Motor Service folks were following up on each complaint (as per the person who first contacted me).
Apparently, driving it. Regardless of what a magazine told you, if it looked like a duck to you, and quacked like a duck to you, would you not call it a duck? Until an article writer starts buying people cars, the final judgment lies with the one spending their money. Agreed, the Corolla has a long history of being boring but bulletproof, but this issue has lots of people talking about Toyota, and its not good press.
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ and....
click on Defects and Recalls to retrieve/print summary report on NHTSA stance for the steering issue. Also you will need to prove it if you have to. Walk through the screens to enter make,year, model etc then make sure to select the check box beginning with "select this check box if you want to see a full summary output."
The 1st summary is about the other issues, scroll down to see our issue, NHTSA action #PE10008.
Should say---
THE OFFICE OF DEFECTS INVESTIGATIONS (ODI) HAS RECEIVED 168 OWNER COMPLAINTS WHICH ALLEGE EXPERIENCES WITH THE STEERING BECOMING UNRESPONSIVE OR LOOSE WHILE DRIVING AT HIGHWAY SPEEDS IN MODEL YEAR (MY) 2009 THROUGH 2010 TOYOTA COROLLA AND MATRIX VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH ELECTRIC POWER STEERING. OF THESE, 8 ALLEGE THAT THE CONDITION CAUSED OR CONTRIBUTED TO A CRASH, INCLUDING 7 MY 2009 VEHICLES AND 1 MY 2010. A PRELIMINARY EVALUATION HAS BEEN OPENED TO ASSESS THE FREQUENCY, SCOPE AND SAFETY CONSEQUENCES OF THE ALLEGED DEFECT IN THE SUBJECT VEHICLES.
etc.....
keep in glove box, keep one at home where your significant other can have it in case tragedy happens and need to sue Toyota!!
Last send copies over and over to your congressman until someone hears us! :mad: :lemon:
Make: TOYOTA Model: COROLLA
Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR CORPORATION
Year : 2010
Component :
STEERING
Date Investigation Opened : February 18, 2010
Date Investigation Closed : Open
Summary:
THE OFFICE OF DEFECTS INVESTIGATIONS (ODI) HAS RECEIVED 168 OWNER COMPLAINTS WHICH ALLEGE EXPERIENCES WITH THE STEERING BECOMING UNRESPONSIVE OR LOOSE WHILE DRIVING AT HIGHWAY SPEEDS IN MODEL YEAR (MY) 2009 THROUGH 2010 TOYOTA COROLLA AND MATRIX VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH ELECTRIC POWER STEERING. OF THESE, 8 ALLEGE THAT THE CONDITION CAUSED OR CONTRIBUTED TO A CRASH, INCLUDING 7 MY 2009 VEHICLES AND 1 MY 2010. A PRELIMINARY EVALUATION HAS BEEN OPENED TO ASSESS THE FREQUENCY, SCOPE AND SAFETY CONSEQUENCES OF THE ALLEGED DEFECT IN THE SUBJECT VEHICLES.
link title
Not! How can you make such a blanket statement when there are hundreds of thousands of happy 2009 and 2010 Corolla owners who feel that Toyota has served them well and sold them a tremendous car? Maybe 168 of you think that Toyota is not giving you a fair shake but "ALL", really!
Also, it's quite a bit of hyperbole to suggest that this problem could lead to a person being charged with a DUI/DWI, given the near impossibility of such a charge being made with no substantiating evidence.
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The steering is a little different. There seems to be some lag in steering response. Because of this I find myself overcorrecting a little during Interstate travel.
Maybe it's just me, but it is a little disconcerting at times. Don't think that I want a car with EPS.
link title
Well for a long time there wasn't a "fix" at Toyota but there is NOW! Call Toyota's experience line and tell them the car is weaving, that you feel like wind is blowing you all over the place when there isn't any wind....They will get you dealership info, so please have that on hand, and they will assign you a case manager who will contact the dealer for you. Then you take the car in for inspection and they will test drive it, make sure you defend yourself and tell them that car is going to kill you and you wont drive it like that!!! Make sure because they tend to attempt to sweep it under the rug. The actual problem is the ELECTRONIC POWER STEERING COMPUTER and they will order a replacement that supposedly was designed to not over correct the steering in the car. I have to take my car in on this Saturday just to order the part. I already traded in my 2008 Corolla that I had purchased new on the lot for the very same issue. After you go to NHTSA website.....you will need your vin # file your complaint then research others. (copy paste url)
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/complaints/
this is what you key in on the search: Selected TYPE: VEHICLE » YEAR: 2010 » MAKE: TOYOTA » MODEL: COROLLA then you select "retrieve complaints."
currently there are 248 filed with NHTSA under steering. Then call Toyota's experience hotline The Customer Experience Center phone # is 800-331-4331.
do that 1st first.and tell them you need a case manager for the EPS etc....hope that helped! good Luck!:)
Secondly, I would correct you in that the "defect" as you call it only shows up in a small number of 2009/2010 Corollas
Thirdly, if you traded your 2008 Corolla because of a EPS problem you made a big mistake as the 2008 Corollas weren't even manufactured with EPS ??????
Toyota's website shows the 2011 Camry to have "Variable-assist power rack-and-pinion". No mention of EPS except for the hybrid.
I know EPS is probably coming to most all new cars in the future. Hopefully it will be improved considerably by the time I need another new car.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_steering
and I quote....
"Originally invented in the early 20th century, automotive engineers have implemented this now standard feature with a variety of technologies."
:confuse:
Your quote is about power steering in general, so I don't quite know what you're trying to say. Yes, we've had power steering for decades. Um... ok. :shades:
Electronic Power Steering is just a new feature designed to assist the driver. It is NOT for hybrids alone.
I know it is NOT for hybrids alone. Who said it was?
It "assists" the driver by removing all possibility of road-feel in the Corolla I drove (very "video-game" feeling). Toyota drivers won't notice much of a change, however. They came with most of the buttoned-down, controlled handling dialed out years before the EPS system. In a way, its faint praise for EPS, because Toyota's never had decent handling or steering feel before the EPS either. I drove an 04 Corolla extensively, an '04 LE I4 and an '07 Camry LE V6, all three of which handled like a wet dishrag, and an '07 SE V6 Camry which had better control but still no noticeable steering feel. EPS just takes away straight-line stability in some applications, it had little to do with the already soggy handling.
To EPS's credit and Toyota's detriment, several automakers use EPS and manage to still incorporate driving feel and a sense of driver involvement, and without the highway wandering many have reported here.