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Toyota Corolla Electric-Assist Power Steering (EPS)

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Comments

  • silvercoupesilvercoupe Member Posts: 326
    It "assists" the driver by removing all possibility of road-feel in the Corolla I drove (very "video-game" feeling).

    Very good description of the EPS on the Corolla.

    My daughter had a 2005 Malibu with EPS. I only drove it a few times, but the steering feel was much the same.

    The steering feel in my 2010 Camry SE is better, but nothing like in my 2000 Accord Coupe. On the other hand, road noise in the Accord is terrible.

    My wife and I have been Honda owners since 1983, and have been well served.
    We have become part of the "blue hair" crowd and were looking for something a little more "comfortable" but still a little "sporty" when we chose the Camry SE. So far we are well pleased with our choice.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Toyotas are hard to beat in the comfort department; they're La-Z-Boy chairs with a steering wheel. And darn good ones. For anyone who gives a lick about driving though, Toyotas aren't likely to be on your list. Lucky for them, a large number of Americans place more value on quiet, soft rides than they do on engaging driving characteristics.
  • terceltomterceltom Member Posts: 1,024
    You are correct, upon further research it's only the 2011 Camry hybrids that have EPS. My mistake!
  • spikejr1spikejr1 Member Posts: 13
    Some of you may be interested - I just got this from the NHTSA -

    "Hello, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has been investigating alleged problems with the steering on MY 2009-10 Toyota Corollas. You have previously filed a complaint with us concerning the steering of your vehicle. We are looking for a vehicle to be used for testing at the Vehicle Research Test Center located in East Liberty Ohio. Please select the "REPLY" button in your E-mail browser and then fill in the questions at the bottom of the page and then "Send" to me.

    Even if you cannot lease your vehicle to us, I would like an update describing the current status of your car.

    Fill out the form included in this message and send it back to me.

    Thank You in advance,
    Chris Lash
    Safety Defects Engineer
    National Highway Traffic Safety Adm.
    Office of Defect Investigations

    1200 New Jersey Avenue, SE
    Washington, DC 20590
    W48-215 NVS213cnl
    Direct 202-366-2370
    Fax 202-366-1767
    chris.lash@dot.gov

    DOT Toll Free
    1-877-536-8368 ext 62370
    HOTLINE (888) 327-4368 "

    --
    As a side note, one of the questions I was asked at the end was whether or not THE new EPS module had been installed, and whether or not I had adapted...Didn't know there was a new module, and after re-reading this thread I see that [pekelvr] highlighted that a fix was available...I will find out what the lease terms are to the NHTSA for them to test the vehicle and post the findings later...
  • pekelvrpekelvr Member Posts: 61
    Sometimes I feel like people do not have their settings set up to receive pertinent information on this board....that being said I reported the same information and I called NHTSA and let them know my Corolla was indeed fixed. The steering box computer for the EPS was replaced and now my car stays center,.. I reported this on this site so that all of you "following" the board would know the outcome after my car was recalled. I dont know if you have followed by threads but if you had you would have seen the vital information from Toyota that I posted and the experience hotline. Because in order to get the new box computer aka EPS you have to call Toyota, get a case manager, report that your car is all over the place, and then their rep will call your dealer repair manager and let them know the part is ready but that it must be ordered specifically for your car. Why Toyota doesnt just make a recall on the faulty EPS systems is beyond me. For those of you who caught this thread.....go to your edmunds setting and set it to receive email notifications for the issue you want to info about. That way you dont miss pertinent info you could have had a week ago. Im very happy with my 2010 Corolla now. Id let my grqandma drive it ...lol ;)
  • terceltomterceltom Member Posts: 1,024
    I have all Toyota forums set-up to receive new posts and I also, have not seen any updated information about your EPS problem. The last I received was your post #259 when you were first notified about your fix. Sometimes I can go days without any new post notices.
  • spikejr1spikejr1 Member Posts: 13
    Appreciate the update - I also have my settings correct...seems that I get most, but not all of the updates. In any case, I'm surprised that the NHTSA is aware of the new EPS fix...and Toyota is obviously aware...However, neither party notified me that a fix is available. This is troubling since I complained to them both directly, and even more troubling for Toyota since they had a Field Tech Rep inspect the vehicle so I know that they are aware that my vehicle is having issues...you would think that they would contact me sooner rather than later...
  • terceltomterceltom Member Posts: 1,024
    Yea, you think you would have been one of the first to find out about the fix. Did the field rep. give you any feedback on your car after testing it? I hope you already contacted Toyota again to find out what's going on.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,145
    Please do post back and let us know what you've decided to do. I've never seen such an offer and didn't know the gov't used privately-owned vehicles to do testing.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
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  • pekelvrpekelvr Member Posts: 61
    My story continued.....I purchased my brand new 2008 Corolla S model at the end of 2008. I only test drove on side streets near the the dealer and a little bit on a 2 lane hwy going 45 at maximum. However, after I got it home and drove on the highway going 60-65 a few times including on the way home, I found that I had to overwork and struggle consistently to keep the car in my lane. The car had crossed me over the center line (yellow line), it (my car) took me into the right lane and I almost hit the car next to me, she (the driver), was able to move fast enough out of the way. The final straw for me was driving to Asheville, North Carolina from where I live which was on the east coast of North Carolina only this time my husband was driving. Now I'm not bragging in any way here but my husband is not a light weight as he has professional built muscle as a pro body builder. He is a strong man is what I'm trying to stress here, so by the time we arrived which was a 6 hour drive, his forearms were strained a little bit and luckily our hotel had a jacuzzi! But my husband became very concerned about me because he thought all the time I was complaining that I'm just some woman driver blaming my poor driving skills (NOT) on my car. I knew something wasn't right and he apologized to me. He became so concerned that while we were in Asheville we to a local Toyota dealer to have the car checked. The dealer then sent me back to my dealer and they told me the car is fine...it all checked out good, to drive home and bring the car to my dealer. So I did just that when I got back to Fuquay Varina, NC. By December 2009 I was done the car yet again tried to kill me and I was shaken to my core. My survival skill was to try not to ever drive the car on the hwy but on my way to the dealer again the car had me feeling I was being blown all over the road without wind.

    For those who do not understand what Electronic Power Steering is...."Power steering (or more correctly for most road vehicles power assisted steering), assists the driver of an automobile in steering by directing a portion of the vehicle's power to traverse the axis of one or more of its wheels. On most road going vehicles there has to be a mechanical linkage as a fail-safe. Originally invented in the early 20th century, automotive engineers have implemented this now standard feature with a variety of technologies."

    So how does it work? Normally when you're on the hwy. in a lane where a lot of tractor trailers pass on, the road, the actual tar/cement then gets what is known as a "rut"...normally when the your tires hit a rut it will like pull you into the rut, but if we begin to feel it pulling us over the center line or it begins taking you into another lane, your reaction will be impulsive and you will correct the steering. The defect with the EPS in our cars is that the car will act as if there ruts when it may be just a little dip and it over corrects itself. :cry: The next problem with the EPS is that when the EPS detects wind it corrects itself yet again...but the problem is if the wind blows you to the left the car fights it back and pushes you to the right and vice versa. If it's raining the car again corrects itself. This makes for dangerous situations as this car is constantly moving you when and where you are not choosing it to. So that day I went to the dealer and it almost killed me by taking me into the lane beside me, When I got to the dealer I handed them my keys with tears in my eyes and I told them I need to call a taxi to take me home. The person, I think she was the receptionist, she asked me to sit down because she saw I was shaken up by it. The General Manager happen to be there and without question he said he would trade it in for me and just take the car back, however he convinced me the latest model the 2010 had built in stability control aka VSC and that it would help. So I drove the same model, the S for "Sport" and they gave me discounts for sticking with the Toyota brand. They also gave me $10,000 which was a ridiculous value considering the car had less than $10,000 miles on it but the Blu book had the car at only $8,000 which was bull!!! But I had to get rid of the car because it was going to kill me....so I took the $10,000 the GM offered and I have to say this man was a nice man and he felt bad about what he was seeing when i sat in tears in front of him...to the point he also gave me an additional discount off the price of the 2010. We traded and I went home. Well guess what the 2010 model was slightly better, but I was scared to death to drive it too as it kept doing the same thing the 2008 model did. But I repeated the same thing I went back to the dealer, to repair services and then I came onto this forum and I went to NHTSA and I have remained proactive for getting the issue of this EPS resolved. So finally in like June Toyota sent me the "recall letter" only it wasn't for the EPS!!!! I was so angry!!! I called the telephone number that it said to call. Well guess what the tele# was not correct, apparently you need to call not customer service but the "Experience" center. So finally, I reach them but this only leads to be assigned a "case manager." The following business day the Case mgr. calls me and I told her that the floor mats were not my problem as this was their reason for sending me the notification, to recall my car for floor mats!!!! Boy was I angry!! :mad: I let them have it! over the phone, but professionally. Well the mgr. hooked me up she told me that the is a part, a new computer box. She called my local dealer made my appointment and told me that the dealer would need to order the part after they did the repair for the floor mats and accelerator pedal then they will order the part which they did. 2 weekends ago and i have to say. My Corolla is tight to the point I look for reasons to get on the hwy!!! SO I can stay centered and go FAST!!!! Sorry if my thread is long but I wanted to let you know my story and let you know Toyota has "The FIX" for the EPS system, but they certainly are not advertising it as I have only heard on the news one time that they were "working on the problem with the Power Steering." The fact is they have new computer boxes for the power steering but they aren't going to advertise it and they aren't going to call you .....YOU HAVE TO CALL THE "TOYOTA EXPERIENCE HOTLINE." Today I'm so so happy with my Corolla and I will remain Toyota loyal!!! but the hubby wants a Mazda 3 after we thought about and test drove a nice little red hot one after the bs I was going through with my 2008 car. So cheer up Toyota people the EPS can be fixed just givem a call:) :shades: :shades: :D
  • spikejr1spikejr1 Member Posts: 13
    Update - [terceltom] I agree that somone should have contacted me about the "fix" that has been available. Glad to read that [pekelvr] has had a positive outcome with the new "fix". As for what the tech rep told me last March...I dropped the vehicle off at a local dealership so their Regional Tech Rep could investigate. I was called the next day and said I could pick up the vehicle...I had to ask what the findings were! The maint rep that I was speaking to said that all he knew was everything was "ok" and no problems were found. I asked to speak with the Tech Rep that did the work and he "wasn't available". I asked if any adjustments were made, otherwise I was confident that the problem still existed. After pressing the issue, he said that a minor alignment problem was corrected. I asked him to send me a copy of the alignment, along with the Tech Reps name. The "Vehicle Alignment Report" arrived all by itself in an envelope...no other names or info was included. After reviewing the report, I noticed that the top of the report didn't have the VIN, Tech Name, License #, Customer Name, Odometer....NOTHING that would identify this was my vehicle other than the date of service...In fact, it had 2009 Toyota on the report (I own a 2010) so I really doubt they sent me an accurate report...OR, this just tells me the level of interest they really had in investigating the problem...

    As for the NHTSA offer - I have contacted them and they have decided that they do not want to lease the vehicle since they will be opening up the electronics...Also, they do not want to return the vehicle to a private party after that type of testing. Instead, they asked if I would sell the vehicle to them for testing. I am in the process of sending all the information (I have everything from window stickers to maint records) so they can make an offer...I suspect it will be KBB / Edmunds values but we will see. I also asked if they knew about the EPS "fix" and they do...they said that customers have to ask for the fix...Toyota is not sending notifications or "recalling" the vehicles, but they are doing this as a "customer sevice".

    Also, the NHTSA said if I were to install Toyota's EPS "fix" then they would be no longer interested in buying / testing my vehicle...

    If the $ figure is acceptable, I will sell it to them and move on...if not, then I will get the Toyota "fix" and see if that works...
  • biffprestonbiffpreston Member Posts: 59
    edited August 2010
    I own a 2009 Corolla Le and I am not optimistic about the "fix". I do not believe it will change a single thing about the extremely poor handling characteristics. I believe the technical service bulletin that was issued was not really about a fix but more about a customer service strategy. Take your car to the dealer and they will do an alignment check and check the air in your tires. They will place your car on a high tech machine that will check your alignment. It will inevitably as with practically any other car on any road anywhere in the world register it as being out of alignment to some degree regardless of how minute. The customer service department will come back and tell you they have made some adjustment and that they believe the car is "fixed". It will fool a certain percentage of people. Keep complaining and they might offer to stick a new computer chip in. It's not going to make the car handle better. Relative to what I call a normal car it is still going to feel like your driving in mud or sand. Very sluggish handling. Don't expect to be able to make sharp turns. I do not believe for one instant that the steering wheel will center itself like in what I call a normal car either.

    Something else I would like to say. The NHTSA, you know the very same people that people are complaining to regarding the deleterious electronic assist steering in the Corollas is also very much pafrtially responsible for these electronic steering systems being placed in the cars in the first place. Surprise! The NHTSA is responsible for establishing CAFE standards. Corporate Average Fuel Economy. It's sort of a racket I believe. They set unreasonably high standards that cannot be attained with normal fossil fuel powered vehicles and then the auto manufacturers are fined for not being able to meet the intentionally unattainable standards then the fines are passed on to the consumer. Sounds like a sneaky way to transfer money from consumers to whomever in government gets it in the end. Real honest way to take peoples money. Auto manufactursrs are switching to EPS steering largely in part due to the fact that you get 1 or 2 extra miles per gallon per car with EPS, at the expense of course of having a car that drives like a motorized shopping cart. I'm not sure of the formula but I believe this saves auto manufacturers a little money by increasing the miles per gallons of their cars even by 1 or 2 miles. So people who are complaining to the NHTSA are complaining to some of the very people responsible for the problematic steering to begin with. What do you actually expect the NHTSA to do about it?
  • pekelvrpekelvr Member Posts: 61
    WOW Im so serious does the forum not post my messages Im wondering...the fix works I have a Corolla and i can testify it worked. Previously I would not permit my grandson to ride in my car and now that i have the new Computer box and I drove in fact all the way from Fuquay Varina NC to The beach on the east coast over a 2 hour car ride Im happy with The fix" i posted it earlier and if you look for it you will see the facts of my testimony. The fix works but you have to call Toyota 1st call the Experience hotline and get assigned a case manager, they in turn call your dealer repair service and tell them to schedule the appt for your car with you. Your assigned a manager at Toyota and they take the car for the day because this fix requires taking out the whole dash. Good luck
  • pekelvrpekelvr Member Posts: 61
    I think there are 2 discussions going on but under different Forums about the same issues EPS and Steering. Which may be why and I apologize that some didnt get my message about "the fix." I had posted under steering.

    Maybe some would find more info there perhaps and could see different stories also. The fix works and i would testify to it because i had already sought legal representation after my 2008Corolla fiasco and i still have a lawyer because I lost $7,000 when I traded it in for the 2010 that supposedly didnt have the EPS issue. I lost the money and will probably be paying it and the interest for it for the next year or so. Toyota devalued there own vehicles which they KNOW has an EPS defect. they also haven't announced that they have a fix and you have to go to them as their field reps don't contact you. You have to use language like I did which was "my car is going to kill me" and what is Toyota going to do about it?
  • pekelvrpekelvr Member Posts: 61
    i went to a dealer just to see what my 2010 Corolla Sport model would go for and i have 9,000 mile on it...i was told $13,000 and its a gift...LOL Dont sell it call Toyotas experience hotline and tell them if they dont do something that your lawyer will contact them after the car kills you!!!
  • terceltomterceltom Member Posts: 1,024
    I think your very mistaken about the real problem in the first place. The Corolla owners that are having this problem are complaining about the inability to keep the steering on line and that the steering is too touchy. I haven't heard one complaint about the steering wheel not centering itself after a turn or not being able to make sharp turns or not even about the sluggish handling, as you describe. In fact, one poster has already stated that after his computer "fix", his car is just fine. Why all the negativity and over statement of the underlining problem?
  • terceltomterceltom Member Posts: 1,024
    edited August 2010
    I must say I'm somewhat skeptical myself about your story as you keep addressing your problem as an EPS problem when in fact the 2008 Corollas, like yours, were never even built with EPS. You have avoided addressing this question every time it has come up on this thread. Why?
  • terceltomterceltom Member Posts: 1,024
    edited August 2010
    It does sound like your he**bent on suing Toyota. You sued them for your 2008 now you want to sue them for your 2010.
  • biffprestonbiffpreston Member Posts: 59
    edited August 2010
    EPS is dreadful period. Regardless of the fact that most of the complaints regarding the EPS relate to difficulty keeping the car mocing in a stright line my car does not crisply or accurately maneuver. Sharp turns are out, a thing of the past. I really wanted a car that handled well. There are a lot of people who absolutely do not care about handling. I do not understand them. I always want a car that handles well on the road. It's rather ridiculous to me not to care.Your life may or may not depends on being in a vehicle with good handling and that is setting aside the comfort and fun of driving a car with good handling I made a mistake in buying my Corolla and I am paying for it with the daily dislike I have for driving it. I can't speak for other Corollas but not for one instant do I believe that any other 2009 or 2010 Corollas with EPS drive any better. At low speeds the steering feels loose and wobbly and at high speeds you really get what I like to call "the shopping cart effect". You struggle to keep the car moving in a straight line. At all speeds whether you are changing lanes or making a turn it feels akin to a car with regular steering with flat tires or a car with regular steering with tires partially submerged in muddy ground. Sluggish. You simply cannot maneuver the car well, it is impossible. I mean something that used to be as simple as making a quick left turn into a drug store parking lot at 20 mph then a sharp right then a quick sharp left into a parking space is no longer possible. You must go very slow with the EPS. It's a lot like senior citizen driving. Painfully frustratingly slow driving wth both hands clutched on the wheel wiggling or wobbling it back and forth and hanging on for dear life.
  • terceltomterceltom Member Posts: 1,024
    Okay, now your addressing the real problem some are having. It does sound like you have one of the infected Corollas. I on the other hand, have had no problem with my 2009 Corolla XLE from day one. In fact, I not only love the steering of this car, but the handling as well. Sharp, one finger turns are no problem ! Set the cruise, tune the XM radio with 400 watts of JBL power and I'm set. Oh, and by the way, I don't work for Toyota either.
  • biffprestonbiffpreston Member Posts: 59
    Im not saying that when your puling in or out of a parking space that it is not easy to turn the steering wheel with one finger or otherwise. I do not believe cars with EPS are going to handle well in general. There is going to be a tradeoff for getting that extra gas mileage and that cheap manufacturing cost. There is no such thing as something for nothing. I have read many things about EPS and enthusiasts who prefer good handling universally hate EPS for its deleterious effect on handling and maneuverability. If i could afford to sell the thing which is what I am going to try to do and then buy a car that I find handles appropriately then I am going to do just that. I spoke to Toyota Executive about the car and I am about to speak to them again tomorrow or the next day. I have attempted to get them to buy it back for an adjusted amount. I do not believe that they will but I am about to try again. I will then attempt to sell it if they do not. Very unhappy with the car and do not believe for one instant that other Corollas handle any better or that there is a fix for the poor handling.
  • terceltomterceltom Member Posts: 1,024
    "do not believe for one instant that other Corollas handle any better or that there is a fix for the poor handling"

    Now there you go again reverting back to your handling problems. Okay you don't have to believe me that my 09 Corolla drives as straight as an arrow on the highway and you can continue to judge everybody elses Corolla by your own problamatic one. But no one ever said there was a fix for any "handling problems" that you keep referring to. No one even said there WAS any handling problems whatsoever, but that's another matter. The fix was for the EPS straight line drifting effect.
  • biffprestonbiffpreston Member Posts: 59
    You can drive the car straight on the highway. It just requires constant corrections. Both hands on the wheel wiggling it back and forth a little continously. I would have to drive the car after getting the "fix" to believe that that "fix" corrects this problem. I don't belive the complaints refer to people not being able to keep the car moving perfectly straight it just requires a level of effort and attention that I would call ridiculous on any road trip beyond 30 minutes on a straight road or highway. After about 30 minutes it turns into a ridiculously tiring and nervewracking experience. Why buy a car like that when there are alternatives?
  • spikejr1spikejr1 Member Posts: 13
    edited August 2010
    I understand your skepticism - it is hard to believe that stability can be fixed by a computer. However, this forum has already had 1 poster who has had the fix completed, and now reports that the vehicle is stable. I haven't read any posts that say the fix was done and the problem continued. With that in mind, I'd recommend that you speak with Toyota again, and you "demand" the new fix. Worse case is no change...best case is you have a solid driving vehicle. Also, you could then let the rest of us know if the fix is 2 for 2...or it didn't work so the fix is hit or miss...

    Update on my NHTSA - Apparently there are 2 of us who are trying to sell our car...and they are only going to purchase 1 for testing. I have to submit a blind bid as to what I would accept as a sales price. The only good news is that both of the cars are "S" models with nearly identical features / miles. I will most likely bid near the dealer retail since there is a fix available if they don't buy the vehicle. My hope is the NHTSA is going to find the issue that Toyota has the fix for, and tell them to recall the vehicles instead of just fixing "customer complaint" vehicles.
  • terceltomterceltom Member Posts: 1,024
    Could there be a pattern that most of these cars with the EPS steering problem are "S" models?
  • spikejr1spikejr1 Member Posts: 13
    Possibly - I'd be interested in seeing how many of the posts listed the trim level of their Corolla. But I'm too lazy to re-read almost 300 posts :)

    Wonder if the additional body effects on the S model affect the wind flow sufficiently that a unique computer fix is required for steering stability? There was a slight styling change in the 2009 to 2010 air dams...
  • almichalmich Member Posts: 11
    I feel your pain and I am in the same situation. I bought my 2010 Corolla S because I wanted a reliable car that was inexpensive to own, and driving by brother-in-law's 2000 Corolla CE was not that bad (steering). I have recently became aware of EPS and the issue on the Corollas, and I am trying to sell it and get a car that won't wander on the road. I wish I had known about this issue sooner.
  • biffprestonbiffpreston Member Posts: 59
    I'm with you almich. I would look at the Mazda 3's or Honda Civics. The 3;s I think use an electro hydraulic. I've read they handle extremely well. Test drive it like you normally drive. I'm going to test drive one soon as well as a new Civic. I would definately take a prospective car out on the highway and make dam sure it tracks straight and make sure it turns and steers well. I miss being able to make crisp turns and I miss being able to turn the radio on and just relax when I drive down the street. With column mounted EPS there is no consistent relationship between the turning of the steering wheel and the wheels on the car. It is all variable. So that second nature feeling of just hopping in the car and turning the key and driving with no more effort or thought than simply walking down the sidewalk is history. There is something fundamentally wrong with having a steering wheel and the wheels on a car out of synch and variably so.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Toyota has been selling millions of poor-handling vehicles long-before they offered EPS, but the fix isn't for anything but the wandering problem, I thought, as tom said.
  • pekelvrpekelvr Member Posts: 61
    Sorry Biff but youre wrong even if you bring your car to the dealer they will not install the new computer box aka module. in fact an alignment does not fix it because the alignment is off whack due to the EPS not working properly. I have the fix, it worked because the computer sends the signal to the EPS to correct the steering so what you feel in the steering is a symptom of an even bigger problem. When I got my car repaired with new accelerator pedal, mats and the EPS computer module they did the alignment and the specs showed every tire was doing practically it own thing. When you go to the dealer and tell them to check the alignment they will do it sure, but Spikegrl is right, they wont do anything more, when my 1st alignment was done I asked them to note my issue with my car and they wrote in the comment "Toyota is aware of an issue concerning the alignment of the vehicle and will either post a recall or notify the dealerships when they have "a fix" No where did they say they would call me, no where did it say NHTSA will tell me. I have to say it loud sorry YOU ARE WRONG!!! MISALIGNMENT IS A SYMPTOM OF THE CAR'S EPS MODULE AND THE BOXES NEED REPLACING!! DONT BELIEVE ME CALL A DEALERSHIP! AND YESTERDAY i POSTED MY INFORMATION BUT THE FORUM MODERATORS WOULDNT LET IT STAY THERE OR OTHERWISE YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO CALL ME DIRECTLY....THEY SAID I COULDNT POST NAMES OR PHONE NUMBERS BUT SHE DIDNT SAY I COULDNT POST A URL. ITS WWW.WAKETECH.EDU AND YOU CAN CHECK THE INFO WITH BUSINESS ADMINISTRATION GRADUATING PERSONELL
  • pekelvrpekelvr Member Posts: 61
    TERCEL IM CONFUSED...IF YOU HAVE DISLIKED TOYOTAS FOR THAT LONG WHY DO YOU COME TO EDMUNDS TO TALK ABOUT THEM? wups sorry for caps. Anyway the reason a lot of us came to the site is because we had a problem and were seeking information and banding together to see if theres anything anyone else knows about the problem. If you think Toyotas been a raw deal forever and then if you have one get rid of it and then you dont have to worry about anymore. I on the other hand have a brand knew Toyota for 3 yrs now as I have owed 2 since 2008 and both had this problem. EPS is a new feature and it was a defective one. Toyota if you didnt realize was voted the safest and most economical car prior to 2008 so that being said I got "the fix" which was the brand new steering EPS computer module replacement and Im trying to let every know my experience which is that the repair has me very satisified to the point I would be willing ot go buy another 2010 Toyota as every other feature is superb but of course when i go to buy it Im going to get on the highway and see if the car meanders at all and if so I will tell the dealer replace the module and i will be back to buy the car. So again if you think Toyotas stink and always have then why are you here?
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Check the usernames again there, boss. ;)
  • terceltomterceltom Member Posts: 1,024
    Enough already with the caps! I'm Terceltom and I enjoy Toyota's to the point where I currently own three Corollas and wouldn't part with any of them. Now, I would ask you, if you disliked your 2008 Corolla so much to the point where you wanted to sue Toyota, why did you buy a 2010 Corolla ????? And again, your 2008 did not have EPS so where are you coming from?????
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,145
    Yeah - all caps (and excessive punctuation!!!!) often have the opposite of the intended effect, in that people avoided reading them altogether rather than take special note.

    To no member in particular: let's be careful not to make this personal. It isn't yet. Just a pre-warning. :)

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  • spikejr1spikejr1 Member Posts: 13
    So how about those Cubs?

    Anyway - Thought I'd survey what amount you would accept if you sold your car to the NHTSA for testing...Also, post what type of trim you own for comparison purposes (ie. S model)

    My particular case I found dealer wholesale to range from $13600-$14375, private party $15600-$16200, and retail $17250-17800.

    The NHTSA indicated that they would usually offer to buy a vehicle for a "fair and reasonable" price based on the valuations from the 3 major used vehicle appraisal companies (Edmunds, KBB, NADA). With this in mind, I would think if there were only 1 car in the running, they would offer something close to private party value.

    Also consider that you will lose the tax credit by selling privately and not trading in the vehicle...in my case, if a dealer offers $13600, that results in a savings of $884. So a private party sale would have to be at least $884 higher to be advantageous.

    The wild card is I don't know how desperate the other seller is...heck, they might sell the car for $12k just to wash their hands of the deal...

    Thoughts?
  • biffprestonbiffpreston Member Posts: 59
    edited August 2010
    Pekelvr What are you trying to say? I know theres a lot more to the driving problems than just veering on the highway and straight roads. Toyota admitted in a press statement which I can easily find or anyone else for that matter that the "fix" did not affect road handling. I wouldn't believe anyone who said that it does either. Column mounted electric steering in which there is a variable relationship rather than consistant between the steering wheel and wheels on the car is not going to handle well period. It is a characteristic of the type of steering system. I don't know how anyone could say they think it handles well. It's not like a different flavor of ice cream. I'm not just unhappy about highway veering. I'm unhappy about the general road handling. The inability to make sharp turns, which is something every car that I have driven over the last 20 years has been able to do except this one. The constant sluggish feel when I attempt to maneuver the car whether for a lane change or a turn which is similar to the feel of having four tires being partially submerged in muddy ground. the loose wobbly feeling at low speeds from having tpo overcompensate with the steering wheel to an excessive degree in order to attempt to keep the car moving in a straight line. This is column mounted electric steering in general on the Corollas. This is not one vehicle out of a million. Someone might have a different definition of handling I suppose. My grandmother for example, whom I love very dearly but has very different ideas about driving than I do. She doesn't believe in driving more than 20 miles per hour and never makes a turn unless it is absolutely necessary. I'm certainly not a brand loyalist. I'm rather disgusted with Toyota for manufacturing the car that I drive. I remember driving a Toyota MR2 back in 1997 and I really liked it. The Corolla is shameful compared that that car. That car while not the most comfortable, handled very well. I loved it and wanted one. Right now I have a modern car manufactured in 2008 and sold in 2009 with modern technology that handles similar to a childs go cart.
  • spikejr1spikejr1 Member Posts: 13
    Interesting problem you have - I'm not sure that I've read here, or anywhere else that someone is experiencing sluggish steering, shaking at low speeds, or a feeling of tires being submerged in mud. Rather, this thread seems to be people that have loose steering...an uncomfortable feeling that you can't feel the tires or road. The car wanders or drifts and needs constant input. The feeling that an emergency reaction at high speeds would lead to an over-correction.

    Sounds like your steering is too tight instead? I would think that the dealer would be able to ride with you and see the steering wheel shake, or feel the sluggish response. Have you tested another Corolla at the dealership to see if it feels the same as your car?
  • biffprestonbiffpreston Member Posts: 59
    edited August 2010
    Yes spikejr1 the steering is loose and wobbly and yes there is a serious lack of communicative feeling between the tires and steering wheel. Yes the car drifts on straight roads or highways. And as far as an emergency correction at hign speeds is concerned I'm not certain depending on the situation of course that the car would be capable of maneuvering well enough to deal with whatever situation is at hand. As far as an emergency reaction leading to an overcorrection I don't know. As far as the handling being sluggish if you read Edmunds review of the Corolla, which is extremely diplomatic it mentions that the corolla's handling is on the "soggy side". Soggy is one way of putting it. Column mounted electric steering is well known to be associated with cars that handle very poorly including driftng on straight roads or highways and uncommunicative steering feel and response. This is not isolated to a few cars. This is characteristic of column mounted electric steering. i am uttelry amazed that anyone in actual truth doesn't have a problem with any car possessing column mounted electric steering and all the associated handling and instability issues of which there are a number of different ones associated with this type of steering system. There might be some people who like to drive a car that handles very poorly and has serious stability issues. Perhaps to them it feels great. Having a steering wheel and wheels on the car variably out of sych gives them a constant adrenaline rush from the element of surprise from not having any tactile feedback from the road. If I were to describe the handling characteristics there would not be just one or two pervasive characteristics there are a number. Every aspect of road handling is seriously affected in a negative way by the implemenmtation of column mounted electric steering and believe me when I type those 4 words I get nauseous. Truly a steering system that eliminates the fun of having a car and makes it into a chore to drive.
  • spikejr1spikejr1 Member Posts: 13
    edited August 2010
    Pekelvr - Can you post the name of the dealership, and their location? I contacted my local dealer, and the Toyota Experience Hotline (800-331-4331) and neither one has information about the EPS Fix. I would like to contact the dealership that repaired your vehicle and get the EPS information just in case the NHTSA does not purchase my vehicle.

    As a side note, I was impressed with the Hotline representative - she actually found a recall for my vehicle that only applies to cold wx areas. I bought the vehicle in LA, but now live in OH so the modification needs to be done. The rep stated that sometimes the recalls are very VIN specific, so it took some time to research. Since the EPS is not technically a "recall" or "service campaign" item at this time, it appears she couldn't see the information.
  • biffprestonbiffpreston Member Posts: 59
    I'm not going to say any more after this. I will say one last thing. The reason Toyota and whatever other manufacturers stick these column mounted electric steering systems in their low end high volume selling cars is raise their fleet average fuel economy to bring it closer to compliance with CAFE standards. They are reluctant to stick these systems into their higher dollar cars. They certainly want to, but they are reluctant. The higher end customers are a bit mre discriminating and have more purtchasing power and can much more easily take their business elsewhere. They are given more consideration. So the low end consumers such as myself are essentially used to raise that fleet fuel economy. This is why column mounted electric steering works itself into a car make from the bottom up. They are reljuctant to make their higher end cars into a dreadful chore to drive.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    What is your basis for the post? Opinion?

    It's fine if it is, I just want to have some idea of how knowledgable you are on the subject; I'm not trying to nitpick. :)
  • pekelvrpekelvr Member Posts: 61
    What are you talking about....this EPSe is in all theirs and other manufacturer's new vehicles...if they could put it in every car company's would.to work properly for example in their trucks. The Prius has it, the Lexus Le has it, the Corolla S, the Corolla LE in case you didn't know, LE = limited edition....so when you say their "higher dollar cars" what car are you speaking of?? Even the vans have it....EPS is a new revamped feature designed with the intention to assist the driver correction of the steering. It was designed to help with things like ruts in the road and rain and dips and hills....Biff please comment facts.
    I love Toyota!!!

    What is an EPS?

    Power steering (or more correctly for most road vehicles power assisted steering), assists the driver of an automobile in steering by directing a portion of the vehicle's power to traverse the axis of one or more of its wheels. On most road going vehicles there has to be a mechanical linkage as a fail-safe. Originally invented in the early 20th century, automotive engineers have implemented this now standard feature with a variety of technologies.

    The earliest known patent related to power steering was that by Frederick W. Lanchester in the UK, in February 1902. His invention was to "cause the steering mechanism to be actuated by hydraulic power".[citation needed] The next design was filed as recorded by the US Patent Office on August 30, 1932, by Klara Gailis, from Belmont, Massachusetts.[citation needed] There is another inventor credited with the invention of power steering by the name of Charles F. Hammond an American, born in Detroit, who filed similar patents, the first of which was filed as recorded by the Canadian Intellectual Property Office.[citation needed]

    Francis W. Davis, an engineer of the truck division of Pierce Arrow began exploring how steering could be made easier, and in 1926 demonstrated the first power steering system.[1] Davis moved to General Motors and refined the hydraulic-assisted power steering system, but the automaker calculated it would be too expensive to produce.[2] Davis then signed up with Bendix, a parts manufacturer for automakers. Military needs during World War II for easier steering on heavy vehicles boosted the need for power assistance on armored cars and tank-recovery vehicles for the British and American armies.[2]

    Chrysler Corporation introduced the first commercially available passenger car power steering system on the 1951 Chrysler Imperial under the name "Hydraguide".[3] The Chrysler system was based on some of expired Davis patents. General Motors introduced the 1952 Cadillac with a power steering system using the work Davis had done for the company almost twenty years earlier.[4]

    Most new vehicles now have power steering, owing to the trends toward front wheel drive, greater vehicle mass, and wider tires, which all increase the required steering effort. Heavier vehicles as common in some countries would be extremely difficult to maneuver at low speeds, while vehicles of lighter weight may not need power assisted steering at all.

    The earliest known patent related to power steering was that by Frederick W. Lanchester in the UK, in February 1902. His invention was to "cause the steering mechanism to be actuated by hydraulic power".[citation needed] The next design was filed as recorded by the US Patent Office on August 30, 1932, by Klara Gailis, from Belmont, Massachusetts.[citation needed] There is another inventor credited with the invention of power steering by the name of Charles F. Hammond an American, born in Detroit, who filed similar patents, the first of which was filed as recorded by the Canadian Intellectual Property Office.[citation needed]

    Francis W. Davis, an engineer of the truck division of Pierce Arrow began exploring how steering could be made easier, and in 1926 demonstrated the first power steering system.[1] Davis moved to General Motors and refined the hydraulic-assisted power steering system, but the automaker calculated it would be too expensive to produce.[2] Davis then signed up with Bendix, a parts manufacturer for automakers. Military needs during World War II for easier steering on heavy vehicles boosted the need for power assistance on armored cars and tank-recovery vehicles for the British and American armies.[2]

    Chrysler Corporation introduced the first commercially available passenger car power steering system on the 1951 Chrysler Imperial under the name "Hydraguide".[3] The Chrysler system was based on some of expired Davis patents. General Motors introduced the 1952 Cadillac with a power steering system using the work Davis had done for the company almost twenty years earlier.[4]

    Most new vehicles now have power steering, owing to the trends toward front wheel drive, greater vehicle mass, and wider tires, which all increase the required steering effort. Heavier vehicles as common in some countries would be extremely difficult to maneuver at low speeds, while vehicles of lighter weight may not need power assisted steering at all.

    Electric power steering (EPS or EPAS) is designed to use an electric motor to reduce effort by providing steering assist to the driver of a vehicle. Sensors detect the motion and torque of the steering column, and a computer module applies assistive torque via an electric motor coupled directly to either the steering gear or steering column. This allows varying amounts of assistance to be applied depending on driving conditions. The system allows engineers to tailor steering-gear response to variable-rate and variable-damping suspension systems achieving an ideal blend of ride, handling, and steering for each vehicle.[9] On Fiat group cars the amount of assistance can be regulated using a button named "CITY" that switches between two different assist curves, while most other EPS systems have variable assist, which allows for more assistance as the speed of a vehicle decreases and less assistance from the system during high-speed situations. In the event of component failure, a mechanical linkage such as a rack and pinion serves as a back-up in a manner similar to that of hydraulic systems. Electric power steering should not be confused with drive-by-wire or steer-by-wire systems which use electric motors for steering, but without any mechanical linkage to the steering wheel.

    Electric systems have a slight advantage in fuel efficiency because there is no belt-driven hydraulic pump constantly running, whether assistance is required or not, and this is a major reason for their introduction. Another major advantage is the elimination of a belt-driven engine accessory, and several high-pressure hydraulic hoses between the hydraulic pump, mounted on the engine, and the steering gear, mounted on the chassis. This greatly simplifies manufacturing and maintenance. By incorporating electronic stability control electric power steering systems can instantly vary to
  • pekelvrpekelvr Member Posts: 61
    The system consists of a steering-assist motor on the column with a steering rack at the wheels and a torque-sensing device in the steering column. The column is split into two pieces: the part attached to the steering wheel connects to the lower portion with the steering rack through a torsion rod with a torque- sensing device. “The upper half and lower half have magnetic sensors and as the upper half of the steering column starts to move, the magnetic sensors send a signal to the power steering control computer,” said Lee. The computer moves the motor to match the input torque command. The quicker the driver turns the wheel, the quicker it will respond, with response time in the milliseconds. This system eliminates the lag and the cavitation that can occur in hydraulic systems.

    Ok and the power steering control computer is what my car had replaced becuase it was not doing the job properly it actually was over steering and over correcting within a millisecond moving me left then right and back and forth. Which is why people insist its alignment, because if you have driven a car with bad alignment it bobs you in and out over the road and if you take your hands off the steering wheel all together you will find you car heading off center in a millisecond. So go get the fix!!!! BE SAFE!!
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,145
    What are you talking about....this EPSe is in all theirs and other manufacturer's new vehicles...if they could put it in every car company's would.to work properly for example in their trucks. The Prius has it, the Lexus Le has it, the Corolla S, the Corolla LE in case you didn't know, LE = limited edition....so when you say their "higher dollar cars" what car are you speaking of??

    I'm not knowledgeable in the area of EPS, but when speaking of "higher dollar cars," one generally thinks of those vehicles with a starting cost of at LEAST $40K.

    Regardless of what trim level Corolla one has, it isn't a high-dollar vehicle - it's a nice economy car. "Limited Edition" has always stumped me, as it seems to mean "limited to the number we can sell" rather than describing a perceived rarity of the vehicle.

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  • biffprestonbiffpreston Member Posts: 59
    edited August 2010
    "EPS is a new revamped feature designed with the intention to assist the driver correction of the steering. It was designed to help with things like ruts in the road and rain and dips and hills...."

    Help with things like ruts n the road and rain and dips and hills?

    Are you saying EPS improves handling and performance? Are you saying that you believe it to be a good feature? a real improvem

    It's easy to dispute what I say and claim that I am ignorant. It's also easy to google corolla steering awful or corolla steering worst handling or corolla steering atrocious and so on and so on and get a near infinite number of hits relating to testimonials from people who are very dissatisfied with their motorized shopping carts. When someone says they think EPS is good and that the Corolla with EPS drives well. I ask myself what their motivation for saying this and what their mentality is. Do they work for Toyota or are they a fanatical brand loyalist?
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,145
    Ugh. This allegation comes up in every discussion when someone's got a viewpoint that differs from the majority who have a complaint. Let's drop the notion that such people are likely to work for the manufacturer - they don't. In my 10 years at Edmunds, I can only recall one instance in which that was true, and we have ways of figuring it out.

    Brand loyalist? Now that's more likely. Or just someone whose driving preferences differ vastly from many in this discussion.

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  • terceltomterceltom Member Posts: 1,024
    Biff, I think the biggest disconnect here is you keep wanting to discuss "Corolla handling ability" and this thread is dedicated to "EPS problems" which in turn is the sole problem of keeping the car straight and avoiding wandering on the highway.
  • terceltomterceltom Member Posts: 1,024
    edited August 2010
    I don't think we need an education on EPS. Those of us posting on this thread obviously are well aware of what EPS is, or else we wouldn't be discussing it. We'd rather hear your own opinions rather than reading your copy and pasting from other sites continuously.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Corolla LE in case you didn't know, LE = limited edition

    HA! LE is a trim level, and one of the lowest, that Toyota offers in their Camry and Corolla Sedan. In fact, I'm not sure Toyota offers a sub-LE Corolla since they don't produce the CE and VE anymore. LE is the volume-model Camry, and I'd wager a solid bet that its the most-common Corolla as well. What is the XLE, Xtra Limited Edition? :D It's closer to the loser edition, with such bare-bones standard features. No standard cruise? C'mon...
  • biffprestonbiffpreston Member Posts: 59
    edited August 2010
    I consider extremely poor handling beyond what i have ever experienced in the past from any other car that I have owned or driven to be an EPS problem. It is definately a result of the EPS. I don't have any more to say anyway. It's nice to vent my rage and let my true feelings be known. I find the car extremely uncomfortable to drive and utterly exhausting and nervewracking on longer drives and or trips with multiple destinations. Lifes hard enough as it is, my God driving shouldn't be such a chore. I'm planning on selling it soon and will be focusing my efforts on doing that hopefully that will be done before school starts back. My main goal is to end up happy with the car that i have to take out multiple times daily and fight city traffic in for the three main purposes of school, work and pleasure. No more cars that feel like your driving in mud, no more veering from side to side on any straight road or highway, no more inability to make sharp crisp turns, no more having to play ridiculous games with a steering wheel that is designed to be variably out of synch with the wheels on the car. I will buy a car without EPS and I will maintain it for the rest of my life if I have to to avoid driving a car with EPS unless a truly new and improved version complete with road feel and good handling is developed. I never thought of myself as even being close to being a car enthusiast before buying a car with EPS. Though not an expert I do consider myself an enthusiast now. I used to love driving. I absolutely loved it. I love a car that feels like it is an extension of you when you sit in it and drive it. With column mounted EPS, and I don't know about other types I will admit, that extension is broken somewhere between the steering wheel and the wheels on the car. It used to put a smile on my face zipping around town and going different places and seeing people and taking little trips. The Corolla with EPS was the cure for all of this.You don't "zip" around town with this thing. You drag the car around town. It's somewhat akin to a ball and chain. Getting around town and attempting to maneuver this thing is a toothpulling experience. I thought this was going to be the best car I had ever owned and it turned out to be the worst by far and by leagues.

    I also want to say that I respect differing opinions regardless of whether or not I agree with them. At least I'll do my best to respect them. Due to my high level of anger over this car it is also nice to have people to argue with.
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