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Comments
Very good description of the EPS on the Corolla.
My daughter had a 2005 Malibu with EPS. I only drove it a few times, but the steering feel was much the same.
The steering feel in my 2010 Camry SE is better, but nothing like in my 2000 Accord Coupe. On the other hand, road noise in the Accord is terrible.
My wife and I have been Honda owners since 1983, and have been well served.
We have become part of the "blue hair" crowd and were looking for something a little more "comfortable" but still a little "sporty" when we chose the Camry SE. So far we are well pleased with our choice.
"Hello, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has been investigating alleged problems with the steering on MY 2009-10 Toyota Corollas. You have previously filed a complaint with us concerning the steering of your vehicle. We are looking for a vehicle to be used for testing at the Vehicle Research Test Center located in East Liberty Ohio. Please select the "REPLY" button in your E-mail browser and then fill in the questions at the bottom of the page and then "Send" to me.
Even if you cannot lease your vehicle to us, I would like an update describing the current status of your car.
Fill out the form included in this message and send it back to me.
Thank You in advance,
Chris Lash
Safety Defects Engineer
National Highway Traffic Safety Adm.
Office of Defect Investigations
1200 New Jersey Avenue, SE
Washington, DC 20590
W48-215 NVS213cnl
Direct 202-366-2370
Fax 202-366-1767
chris.lash@dot.gov
DOT Toll Free
1-877-536-8368 ext 62370
HOTLINE (888) 327-4368 "
--
As a side note, one of the questions I was asked at the end was whether or not THE new EPS module had been installed, and whether or not I had adapted...Didn't know there was a new module, and after re-reading this thread I see that [pekelvr] highlighted that a fix was available...I will find out what the lease terms are to the NHTSA for them to test the vehicle and post the findings later...
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For those who do not understand what Electronic Power Steering is...."Power steering (or more correctly for most road vehicles power assisted steering), assists the driver of an automobile in steering by directing a portion of the vehicle's power to traverse the axis of one or more of its wheels. On most road going vehicles there has to be a mechanical linkage as a fail-safe. Originally invented in the early 20th century, automotive engineers have implemented this now standard feature with a variety of technologies."
So how does it work? Normally when you're on the hwy. in a lane where a lot of tractor trailers pass on, the road, the actual tar/cement then gets what is known as a "rut"...normally when the your tires hit a rut it will like pull you into the rut, but if we begin to feel it pulling us over the center line or it begins taking you into another lane, your reaction will be impulsive and you will correct the steering. The defect with the EPS in our cars is that the car will act as if there ruts when it may be just a little dip and it over corrects itself. The next problem with the EPS is that when the EPS detects wind it corrects itself yet again...but the problem is if the wind blows you to the left the car fights it back and pushes you to the right and vice versa. If it's raining the car again corrects itself. This makes for dangerous situations as this car is constantly moving you when and where you are not choosing it to. So that day I went to the dealer and it almost killed me by taking me into the lane beside me, When I got to the dealer I handed them my keys with tears in my eyes and I told them I need to call a taxi to take me home. The person, I think she was the receptionist, she asked me to sit down because she saw I was shaken up by it. The General Manager happen to be there and without question he said he would trade it in for me and just take the car back, however he convinced me the latest model the 2010 had built in stability control aka VSC and that it would help. So I drove the same model, the S for "Sport" and they gave me discounts for sticking with the Toyota brand. They also gave me $10,000 which was a ridiculous value considering the car had less than $10,000 miles on it but the Blu book had the car at only $8,000 which was bull!!! But I had to get rid of the car because it was going to kill me....so I took the $10,000 the GM offered and I have to say this man was a nice man and he felt bad about what he was seeing when i sat in tears in front of him...to the point he also gave me an additional discount off the price of the 2010. We traded and I went home. Well guess what the 2010 model was slightly better, but I was scared to death to drive it too as it kept doing the same thing the 2008 model did. But I repeated the same thing I went back to the dealer, to repair services and then I came onto this forum and I went to NHTSA and I have remained proactive for getting the issue of this EPS resolved. So finally in like June Toyota sent me the "recall letter" only it wasn't for the EPS!!!! I was so angry!!! I called the telephone number that it said to call. Well guess what the tele# was not correct, apparently you need to call not customer service but the "Experience" center. So finally, I reach them but this only leads to be assigned a "case manager." The following business day the Case mgr. calls me and I told her that the floor mats were not my problem as this was their reason for sending me the notification, to recall my car for floor mats!!!! Boy was I angry!! :mad: I let them have it! over the phone, but professionally. Well the mgr. hooked me up she told me that the is a part, a new computer box. She called my local dealer made my appointment and told me that the dealer would need to order the part after they did the repair for the floor mats and accelerator pedal then they will order the part which they did. 2 weekends ago and i have to say. My Corolla is tight to the point I look for reasons to get on the hwy!!! SO I can stay centered and go FAST!!!! Sorry if my thread is long but I wanted to let you know my story and let you know Toyota has "The FIX" for the EPS system, but they certainly are not advertising it as I have only heard on the news one time that they were "working on the problem with the Power Steering." The fact is they have new computer boxes for the power steering but they aren't going to advertise it and they aren't going to call you .....YOU HAVE TO CALL THE "TOYOTA EXPERIENCE HOTLINE." Today I'm so so happy with my Corolla and I will remain Toyota loyal!!! but the hubby wants a Mazda 3 after we thought about and test drove a nice little red hot one after the bs I was going through with my 2008 car. So cheer up Toyota people the EPS can be fixed just givem a call:) :shades: :shades:
As for the NHTSA offer - I have contacted them and they have decided that they do not want to lease the vehicle since they will be opening up the electronics...Also, they do not want to return the vehicle to a private party after that type of testing. Instead, they asked if I would sell the vehicle to them for testing. I am in the process of sending all the information (I have everything from window stickers to maint records) so they can make an offer...I suspect it will be KBB / Edmunds values but we will see. I also asked if they knew about the EPS "fix" and they do...they said that customers have to ask for the fix...Toyota is not sending notifications or "recalling" the vehicles, but they are doing this as a "customer sevice".
Also, the NHTSA said if I were to install Toyota's EPS "fix" then they would be no longer interested in buying / testing my vehicle...
If the $ figure is acceptable, I will sell it to them and move on...if not, then I will get the Toyota "fix" and see if that works...
Something else I would like to say. The NHTSA, you know the very same people that people are complaining to regarding the deleterious electronic assist steering in the Corollas is also very much pafrtially responsible for these electronic steering systems being placed in the cars in the first place. Surprise! The NHTSA is responsible for establishing CAFE standards. Corporate Average Fuel Economy. It's sort of a racket I believe. They set unreasonably high standards that cannot be attained with normal fossil fuel powered vehicles and then the auto manufacturers are fined for not being able to meet the intentionally unattainable standards then the fines are passed on to the consumer. Sounds like a sneaky way to transfer money from consumers to whomever in government gets it in the end. Real honest way to take peoples money. Auto manufactursrs are switching to EPS steering largely in part due to the fact that you get 1 or 2 extra miles per gallon per car with EPS, at the expense of course of having a car that drives like a motorized shopping cart. I'm not sure of the formula but I believe this saves auto manufacturers a little money by increasing the miles per gallons of their cars even by 1 or 2 miles. So people who are complaining to the NHTSA are complaining to some of the very people responsible for the problematic steering to begin with. What do you actually expect the NHTSA to do about it?
Maybe some would find more info there perhaps and could see different stories also. The fix works and i would testify to it because i had already sought legal representation after my 2008Corolla fiasco and i still have a lawyer because I lost $7,000 when I traded it in for the 2010 that supposedly didnt have the EPS issue. I lost the money and will probably be paying it and the interest for it for the next year or so. Toyota devalued there own vehicles which they KNOW has an EPS defect. they also haven't announced that they have a fix and you have to go to them as their field reps don't contact you. You have to use language like I did which was "my car is going to kill me" and what is Toyota going to do about it?
Now there you go again reverting back to your handling problems. Okay you don't have to believe me that my 09 Corolla drives as straight as an arrow on the highway and you can continue to judge everybody elses Corolla by your own problamatic one. But no one ever said there was a fix for any "handling problems" that you keep referring to. No one even said there WAS any handling problems whatsoever, but that's another matter. The fix was for the EPS straight line drifting effect.
Update on my NHTSA - Apparently there are 2 of us who are trying to sell our car...and they are only going to purchase 1 for testing. I have to submit a blind bid as to what I would accept as a sales price. The only good news is that both of the cars are "S" models with nearly identical features / miles. I will most likely bid near the dealer retail since there is a fix available if they don't buy the vehicle. My hope is the NHTSA is going to find the issue that Toyota has the fix for, and tell them to recall the vehicles instead of just fixing "customer complaint" vehicles.
Wonder if the additional body effects on the S model affect the wind flow sufficiently that a unique computer fix is required for steering stability? There was a slight styling change in the 2009 to 2010 air dams...
To no member in particular: let's be careful not to make this personal. It isn't yet. Just a pre-warning.
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Anyway - Thought I'd survey what amount you would accept if you sold your car to the NHTSA for testing...Also, post what type of trim you own for comparison purposes (ie. S model)
My particular case I found dealer wholesale to range from $13600-$14375, private party $15600-$16200, and retail $17250-17800.
The NHTSA indicated that they would usually offer to buy a vehicle for a "fair and reasonable" price based on the valuations from the 3 major used vehicle appraisal companies (Edmunds, KBB, NADA). With this in mind, I would think if there were only 1 car in the running, they would offer something close to private party value.
Also consider that you will lose the tax credit by selling privately and not trading in the vehicle...in my case, if a dealer offers $13600, that results in a savings of $884. So a private party sale would have to be at least $884 higher to be advantageous.
The wild card is I don't know how desperate the other seller is...heck, they might sell the car for $12k just to wash their hands of the deal...
Thoughts?
Sounds like your steering is too tight instead? I would think that the dealer would be able to ride with you and see the steering wheel shake, or feel the sluggish response. Have you tested another Corolla at the dealership to see if it feels the same as your car?
As a side note, I was impressed with the Hotline representative - she actually found a recall for my vehicle that only applies to cold wx areas. I bought the vehicle in LA, but now live in OH so the modification needs to be done. The rep stated that sometimes the recalls are very VIN specific, so it took some time to research. Since the EPS is not technically a "recall" or "service campaign" item at this time, it appears she couldn't see the information.
It's fine if it is, I just want to have some idea of how knowledgable you are on the subject; I'm not trying to nitpick.
I love Toyota!!!
What is an EPS?
Power steering (or more correctly for most road vehicles power assisted steering), assists the driver of an automobile in steering by directing a portion of the vehicle's power to traverse the axis of one or more of its wheels. On most road going vehicles there has to be a mechanical linkage as a fail-safe. Originally invented in the early 20th century, automotive engineers have implemented this now standard feature with a variety of technologies.
The earliest known patent related to power steering was that by Frederick W. Lanchester in the UK, in February 1902. His invention was to "cause the steering mechanism to be actuated by hydraulic power".[citation needed] The next design was filed as recorded by the US Patent Office on August 30, 1932, by Klara Gailis, from Belmont, Massachusetts.[citation needed] There is another inventor credited with the invention of power steering by the name of Charles F. Hammond an American, born in Detroit, who filed similar patents, the first of which was filed as recorded by the Canadian Intellectual Property Office.[citation needed]
Francis W. Davis, an engineer of the truck division of Pierce Arrow began exploring how steering could be made easier, and in 1926 demonstrated the first power steering system.[1] Davis moved to General Motors and refined the hydraulic-assisted power steering system, but the automaker calculated it would be too expensive to produce.[2] Davis then signed up with Bendix, a parts manufacturer for automakers. Military needs during World War II for easier steering on heavy vehicles boosted the need for power assistance on armored cars and tank-recovery vehicles for the British and American armies.[2]
Chrysler Corporation introduced the first commercially available passenger car power steering system on the 1951 Chrysler Imperial under the name "Hydraguide".[3] The Chrysler system was based on some of expired Davis patents. General Motors introduced the 1952 Cadillac with a power steering system using the work Davis had done for the company almost twenty years earlier.[4]
Most new vehicles now have power steering, owing to the trends toward front wheel drive, greater vehicle mass, and wider tires, which all increase the required steering effort. Heavier vehicles as common in some countries would be extremely difficult to maneuver at low speeds, while vehicles of lighter weight may not need power assisted steering at all.
The earliest known patent related to power steering was that by Frederick W. Lanchester in the UK, in February 1902. His invention was to "cause the steering mechanism to be actuated by hydraulic power".[citation needed] The next design was filed as recorded by the US Patent Office on August 30, 1932, by Klara Gailis, from Belmont, Massachusetts.[citation needed] There is another inventor credited with the invention of power steering by the name of Charles F. Hammond an American, born in Detroit, who filed similar patents, the first of which was filed as recorded by the Canadian Intellectual Property Office.[citation needed]
Francis W. Davis, an engineer of the truck division of Pierce Arrow began exploring how steering could be made easier, and in 1926 demonstrated the first power steering system.[1] Davis moved to General Motors and refined the hydraulic-assisted power steering system, but the automaker calculated it would be too expensive to produce.[2] Davis then signed up with Bendix, a parts manufacturer for automakers. Military needs during World War II for easier steering on heavy vehicles boosted the need for power assistance on armored cars and tank-recovery vehicles for the British and American armies.[2]
Chrysler Corporation introduced the first commercially available passenger car power steering system on the 1951 Chrysler Imperial under the name "Hydraguide".[3] The Chrysler system was based on some of expired Davis patents. General Motors introduced the 1952 Cadillac with a power steering system using the work Davis had done for the company almost twenty years earlier.[4]
Most new vehicles now have power steering, owing to the trends toward front wheel drive, greater vehicle mass, and wider tires, which all increase the required steering effort. Heavier vehicles as common in some countries would be extremely difficult to maneuver at low speeds, while vehicles of lighter weight may not need power assisted steering at all.
Electric power steering (EPS or EPAS) is designed to use an electric motor to reduce effort by providing steering assist to the driver of a vehicle. Sensors detect the motion and torque of the steering column, and a computer module applies assistive torque via an electric motor coupled directly to either the steering gear or steering column. This allows varying amounts of assistance to be applied depending on driving conditions. The system allows engineers to tailor steering-gear response to variable-rate and variable-damping suspension systems achieving an ideal blend of ride, handling, and steering for each vehicle.[9] On Fiat group cars the amount of assistance can be regulated using a button named "CITY" that switches between two different assist curves, while most other EPS systems have variable assist, which allows for more assistance as the speed of a vehicle decreases and less assistance from the system during high-speed situations. In the event of component failure, a mechanical linkage such as a rack and pinion serves as a back-up in a manner similar to that of hydraulic systems. Electric power steering should not be confused with drive-by-wire or steer-by-wire systems which use electric motors for steering, but without any mechanical linkage to the steering wheel.
Electric systems have a slight advantage in fuel efficiency because there is no belt-driven hydraulic pump constantly running, whether assistance is required or not, and this is a major reason for their introduction. Another major advantage is the elimination of a belt-driven engine accessory, and several high-pressure hydraulic hoses between the hydraulic pump, mounted on the engine, and the steering gear, mounted on the chassis. This greatly simplifies manufacturing and maintenance. By incorporating electronic stability control electric power steering systems can instantly vary to
Ok and the power steering control computer is what my car had replaced becuase it was not doing the job properly it actually was over steering and over correcting within a millisecond moving me left then right and back and forth. Which is why people insist its alignment, because if you have driven a car with bad alignment it bobs you in and out over the road and if you take your hands off the steering wheel all together you will find you car heading off center in a millisecond. So go get the fix!!!! BE SAFE!!
I'm not knowledgeable in the area of EPS, but when speaking of "higher dollar cars," one generally thinks of those vehicles with a starting cost of at LEAST $40K.
Regardless of what trim level Corolla one has, it isn't a high-dollar vehicle - it's a nice economy car. "Limited Edition" has always stumped me, as it seems to mean "limited to the number we can sell" rather than describing a perceived rarity of the vehicle.
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Help with things like ruts n the road and rain and dips and hills?
Are you saying EPS improves handling and performance? Are you saying that you believe it to be a good feature? a real improvem
It's easy to dispute what I say and claim that I am ignorant. It's also easy to google corolla steering awful or corolla steering worst handling or corolla steering atrocious and so on and so on and get a near infinite number of hits relating to testimonials from people who are very dissatisfied with their motorized shopping carts. When someone says they think EPS is good and that the Corolla with EPS drives well. I ask myself what their motivation for saying this and what their mentality is. Do they work for Toyota or are they a fanatical brand loyalist?
Brand loyalist? Now that's more likely. Or just someone whose driving preferences differ vastly from many in this discussion.
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HA! LE is a trim level, and one of the lowest, that Toyota offers in their Camry and Corolla Sedan. In fact, I'm not sure Toyota offers a sub-LE Corolla since they don't produce the CE and VE anymore. LE is the volume-model Camry, and I'd wager a solid bet that its the most-common Corolla as well. What is the XLE, Xtra Limited Edition? It's closer to the loser edition, with such bare-bones standard features. No standard cruise? C'mon...
I also want to say that I respect differing opinions regardless of whether or not I agree with them. At least I'll do my best to respect them. Due to my high level of anger over this car it is also nice to have people to argue with.