Toyota Corolla Electric-Assist Power Steering (EPS)

gerrya · October 2010

Good point. I'll have to dig out my old work orders and see what's actually recorded on them - if it's not documented then I'm probably screwed. I know I had the alignment re-done last October to try and fix the problem, but the car might have already been out of warranty by then. Thanks for the reminder though.

I'm really peeved at this steering issue and the dealer's response to it. But just so nobody thinks I'm bashing for the sake of bashing - I still think these are darn good cars for the money. Other than one alignment that I paid for, and tires, and the regular oil changes, I have spent precisely $0.00 in mechanical repairs on this car to date. No brakes, no windshield wipers, nothing.

googander · November 2010

Hello all!

I too, have a 2010 Corolla S, and have this same steering issue. Totally fine below 50mph, and then when I get above that on the freeway, I start feeling like there are high winds! But the trees aren't moving! Iv'e been driving it for a year feeling like the steering is more just annoying feeling than anything...kind of rationalizing myself out of it, because this is the only new car Iv'e ever had!

It feels like it wants to drift out of it's lane constantly. It takes very little effort to correct, but I am making constant tiny corrections as I drive, which I have never had to do in any other car. I read the discussion about the car sensing the "crown of the road", which makes perfect sense, but I do most of my driving on 4 or 5 lane FLAT southern CA highways, so that doesn't really seem to apply. There is also a lot of graded pavement on these roads, but the odd thing is it feels pretty much the same on graded or finished pavement. It can make driving a harrowing experience every now and then, but I have never really had an experience where I feel i have legitimately lost control, it's more just a vague feeling(oh what a feeling? haha!) that I might lose control. Which can be tiring.

However, the kicker was that my significant other borrowed the car for the first time today and he told me that it "swerved". Now that my suspicions have been validated, I'd like to take action on this because this is the ONLY thing I don't like about my car. I have been doing sporadic online searches on this issue over the last year, and this forum was the only place Ive found a valid sounding solution to this problem.

Also, I have driven a LOT of different cars...most of them older, even 60's beetles..and my new Corolla has the absolute worst handling of ANY of them, including my battleworn 1993 Toyota pickup with no power steering! I have driven cars of all different makes and years and believe you me...something is wrong here. I just had to convince MYSELF.

So now I think I am just hoping for suggestions of how to handle this at the dealership when I take it in. Anyone have any?

terceltom · November 2010

Simply tell the dealer your having this problem and describe it as you did on your post. Tell them that you researched this problem and let them know that you read that there is a "computer fix" for this problem. Ask them to check their TSB's as there is one out there for this problem (see post #522). If you don't get any satisfaction from the dealer, get in touch with the Toyota regional rep.

googander · November 2010

Thanks terceltom!

I've never done this before, so that's a great help! I've read a lot of posts from people taking their Corolla in over the last year and being told there was no problem, or that they were imagining the problem, or trying a bunch of fixes I don't feel I have time for, so I'm expecting that might be what would happen to me...but maybe by now it's a known issue. I will give that a try and post my results! might not be this weekend but next.

terceltom · November 2010

I understand how you feel and hopes it goes well for you. Perhaps taking someone along might make it less intimidating for you. You should feel 100% satisfied with your car; your steering is something that should be taken care of for your comfort as well as your safety.

googander · November 2010

Thanks again! I believe I will be recruiting some moral support!

I have read almost all 500+ posts in this thread out of curiosity. I noticed that I drive the same sections of freeway on the 405 as another poster... I wonder if I see this other Corolla daily, LOL! But who knows, there are SO MANY Corollas on the road it

Something I'm wondering now is if this issue is more prevalent in either manual or automatic transmission Corolla S, I read an interesting discussion elsewhere on how the geometry of the cars is slightly different, although I'm not sure if the discussion was relevant..

The only reason I got the S is because I prefer a manual transmission.

pekelvr · November 2010

Both of my Corollas were Automatics and they both were S models and both had steering issues.

pekelvr · November 2010

You should complain to the General Manager and the Repair Manager at the Dealership you purchased the car from. Then call Toyota's Customer Experience hotline and tell them A) that your scared to drive the car on the highway

that you know other Toyota owners that have had their EPS computer boxes replaced C) that you wish to have yours replaced D) that you feel like if the steering issue is not addressed and you have an accident or injure another human being you have informed your attorney to sue Toyota for damages E) Above all else do not take no for an answer and do not back down on the phone!!!! you make sure they hear you and understand you and that you will take legal action if they do not make this car safe for you and your passengers!! When they tell you they are going to help you then you can do the whole "I'd like to stay a loyal Toyota customer....blah blah blah

terceltom · November 2010

Don't really think all of those threats are necessary at this point in time. By now I believe the Toyota dealers are well aware of the problems with the EPS on some 2009 and 2010 Corollas as well as the EPS TSB out on some of these Corollas. I believe if you just show them that you are educated on the problem they will repair as necessary. I like to think if you stay respectful you'll usually get a lot further with the dealer.

shouravv · December 2010

I am fully aware that it's an apples to oranges comparison, and can no way to be on the same scale. But, since these are the two cars I drive regularly, here's my impression on the EPS issue.

The 2007 Santa Fe 4WD I drive for work, long distance usually, has a classic power steering. It is quite "stiff", needs force to be steered, and you feel the road very intimately. The upside is that you don't veer in the lane. The downside is that your arms get tired pretty quickly as little corrections due to road pattern change require significant force, and non-smooth road surface keeps vibrating the hands severely.

By comparison, the 2010 Corolla that I bought for personal use about a month ago, and which i drive 3-4 days a week medium distance has a "light" steering. The upside is that I can effortlessly steer the car using nearly zero force, and little corrections on the road take no energy at all. I hardly feel the road through the steering, no matter how rough it is, and I like it this way. The downside is that even little tugs on the steering moves th ecar, and I dare not drive it using one hand even on a long straight road, as I comfortably do with the Santa Fe.

Here is my *guess* about what's happening. The motor controlled Corolla EPS is meant to make driving physically effortless. But no matter how steady hands you have, you inadvertently keep turning the steering a little with minimal force, and then need to correct for that, and out of habit from old car feel, you'd over-correct by using too much force.

Now, while I like the Santa Fe's stability, I love that the Corolla does not leave my hand sore after every ride longer than 10 miles. While it is true that the Corolla EPS does not feel natural, I am loving the ease of driving it. In my personal opinion, the hydrolic to full-electric switch is a progress. But Toyota will do better to offer the hydrolic steering as an option, so that those who want old-style steering can get it.

Or may be, the car can have an easy to use "tuner", using which each driver can pick how stiff they want their steering to be? It seems that all future hybrids / electric cars are going to come with a engine volume control, to choose how loud they want to make the engine noise. Then why for a steering stiffness control as well?

terceltom · December 2010

You have some very good ideas and suggestions I really like, that would please all drivers steering taste. I would remind all drivers that natural is just what weve become used to having all these years, its not really natural its just the past standard as its all we had.

thegraduate · December 2010

"Natural" would refer to steering in its unaltered state, the fewest barriers between the driver's hands and the road.

"Normal" would be the standard everyone is using (and thankfully it isn't like the Corolla). I know tom wasn't speaking about the Santa Fe, but I'll reply here: my fiancee has an '07 Santa Fe GLS, and it's steering is quite nice. Relatively numb, and too light, but not so light that it doesn't know straight-ahead.

terceltom · December 2010

Well how in the world would you know if unaltered steering feel, is the old manual steering feel or the new EPS steering feel? Perhaps the steering feel your trying to describe is most common but not necessarily natural.

sjarea · December 2010

As someone that has had the issue and took it to the dealer for the TSB fix I can assure you I do not/did not hold my hand more or less steady than I did when I was having the ECU (Electronic Control Unit that is the 'brains' for EPS) issue.

I completely agree w/ your assessment of the corolla feel, but at the same time I do not think you had one that had the issue.

Do you think actions speak louder than words?
When I first went in I was told - it's the alignment, tire pressure, crown in the road or I gotta get used to it. I did not believe that for one second. I have driven cars out of alignment, low and high tire pressure, on extremely crowned roads and I have gotten used to a variety of steering systems before. The kicker w/ this issue is that is only rears it's ugly head when you start to hit 40+ MPH. If it were any of the other issues I was told I would have noticed them at lower speeds as well as at higher speeds. I as well as my two gear-head brothers that drove/inspected it all suspected it was ECU-related.

However, a few months later out comes the TSB. Well, when I took it in (with a print out of the TSB) for the fix I let the service manager purposely NOT KNOW I KNEW. So, I go thru the schpell of telling him what it does and when it does it (Which they already had records of by that time). Mind you, I was very civil and polite each and every time I went in. Yet seriously, this guy (like the others before) looks and me and talks to me like I am a doofus or a child or in the vein of this can't possible be in such a manner as I describe.
As soon as he said we'll take a look at it and call you (like all the previous times before) I said oh yeah - Here is a TSB on it that may help you and here is my case # w/ corporate. From this point on the service managers mannerisms changed in a way I think you can deduce... And he never said he was unaware of the TSB or acted like he hadn't heard. It was kinda like OK you gave me the super double secret hand shake so....

Also, keep in mind the car had been driven by toyota three times before and they 'could not replicate the issue'. Yet, with nothing done to the car except the print-out of the TSB it was miraculously diagnosed that go around. Things that make you go hmmmmm........

Trust me when I say- you'd notice it like it was the difference between day and nite if you had one w/ the issue.

I am pleased to say that since I had the TSB applied to my car in SEP '10 it seems normal now.

shouravv · December 2010

Just out of curiosity, sjarea, what *exact* difference do you feel after the EPS computer TSB fix? Do the steering feel heavier / stiffer like hydrolic ones all the time, or is it just better at staying centered once you straighten the wheels and speed up?

Also, do you happen to know if your EPS computer assembly got replaced or reprogrammed?

terceltom · December 2010

I'm glad you were able to get your steering to your liking. I agree with your sumation of shouravv's assesment. I was also very fortunate as to not have the EPS steering problem when I purchased my 2009 new Corolla. Although many, many 2009, 2010 Corolla owners acused me of being a Toyota rep. or just being plain crazy or lying because I defended my car. I'm glad you at least acknowledge that some never even had this steering issue in their cars to start with.

thegraduate · December 2010

Yes, I'm referring to manual steering. It couldn't be the Corolla's new EPS feel, because it has no feel at all. :shades:

ed_accord · December 2010

I bought a Corolla for my daughter and after the first 2 months she refused to drive it .

I lived for a year with phone calls to Toyota Customer Service and bringing the Corolla from dealer to dealer (we managed to put 3 thousand miles on the car in 1.5 years, everyone was afraid of driving it).

Dealers acknowledged there was a problem, but Toyota told them and me that the car was designed to drive like that.

I started Lemon Law proceedings with my state attorney general and Toyota referred me to "National Center for Dispute Settlement" a completely useless company. NCDS concluded without seing my car, that the car was designed to drive like that (veer from lane to lane).

My attorney general office made an appointment to meet with me and gave Toyota one last chance to drive the car. This time Toyota took it seriously drove the car and made an offer to buy the car for full price I paid, plus loan interest, minus 12 cents per mile.

Even after we reached an agreement the customer service people decided that they wanted to pay only the loan portion and not the down payment. They claimed it was because they had no proof I had given a down payment. My bank came to the rescue and for a fee gave me a copy of the canceled check.

My 2 lessons learned were: 1) Always pay the down payment with a check and keep a copy, and 2) After 5 Toyotas, I know own a Honda Accord.

If you need to find help look for Lemon Law in your state. This is Florida's http://www.800helpfla.com/lemonlaw.html. You have 2 years from purchase to do it or loose your rights.

Good luck!

terceltom · December 2010

Glad it finally worked out for you in the long run. I hope you have much better luck with your new Honda.

sjarea · December 2010

shouravv,

I had the centering issue. The TSB-0140-10 fix did NOT stiffen the feel. As far as I can tell it remained the same. I think the best description I've heard to describe it is - video-game like. No road feedback at all and every effortless when turning.

But, toyota is known for light steering feel and I knew that as a previous owner (except for my 91 pick-up that had manual steering. My '94 camary was heavier than the '10 corolla but still a light feel compared to most cars IMO) and the feel was not a make or break issue for me when buying. Driving down the freeway and having the car stay centered IS!!

However, the mistake I made was NOT testing driving the car I bought. One would assume that such a vast difference would NOT exist between the test model and the purchase vehicle. The test model I drove on the freeway was fine in terms of centering issue. Which, IMO, leaves me to conclude toyota & dealers knew of this issue (since '09 has the same issues on some corollas as well and those started selling in mid '08 or there about) and picked test models that did not exhibit the centering issue. Again, that is my opinion. I can not back that up w/ hard facts(although you've seen how I described my overall experience in a couple of posts above).
But, keep in mind toyota is not going out of it's way to let people know. If you go out of you way to find out and complain - sure they will fix it if the TSB applies. Otherwise, look out for the corolla owners on the road that think the issue is normal......yikes!! IMO, that is a huge mistake for toyota and a whole other issue on how they handle recalls Vs customer satisfaction issues. We'll see. Keep in mind the EPS investigation by the NTHSA & ODI is still on-going.
Here is the link to the report summary-
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/defect/defectsummary2.cfm?inv_id=1922- 4&type=VEHICLE&typenum=1&cmpt_id=1&prod_id=400766&make=TOYOTA&model=COROLLA&mode- l_yr=2009

In terms of reprogrammed and replaced - Both as per the TSB. It is a re-tuned module and replaced the old one.

Here is the .pdf of the TSB-
http://www.toyotapart.com/Steering_Off_Center_Feel_TSB014010.pdf
"A re-tuned Power Steering Computer Assembly has been developed to
provide an alternative steering feel for these customers."

I can't go look at the paper work because I am visiting relatives until after the new year. If you would like I can review it and post back after Jan 3, 2011.

terceltom · December 2010

As you state yourself, this EPS steering problem only affects some of the "09" and "10" Corollas sold, mine being one not affected. This in mind I would think the Corollas on the road are the ones that are not affected so you need not worry. On another note, don't you test drive the actual car you are going to purchse and not some kind of test drive vehicle?

shouravv · December 2010

Thanks for the reply, sjarea! Yes, if you can please look up the service record when you are back and let us know if the actual computer module was replaced, that'd be great. I am interested about it for two reasons -

1. If it is simply a reprogramming issue, I might just ask for it during my next scheduled maintenance, although I don't have any issue with staying centered as of now. Re-programming is a low-cost fix that the dealer shouldn't complain about if I produce the TSB printout (thanks a lot for the link, BTW!). On the other hand, if it is a physical module replacement, I'd be quite reluctant to go for it. Even with Toyota trained mechanics, I'd rather drive the factory assembly which is doing just fine for me, than let someone take my car apart to fix something that doesn't seem broken.

2. If it is a module replacement issue, then I'd "understand" why Toyota is so reluctant to admit it and is fighting so hard with NHTSA about it. Replacing a computer module is a very expensive procedure, both in terms of the hardware cost, the labor cost, and the cost of other small parts that often gets broken when you take the whole assembly apart. On the other hand, re-programming is a low-cost bad-PR case, which is more acceptable to any company.

======

On a related note, I read through the TSB and if I am reading it correctly, then Toyota is saying that if the dealer does *not* find anything wrong with the vehicle and the customer is still dissatisfied, then they should perform the TSB! Funny, ha?

shouravv · December 2010

Reading through most of the messages on this board, I am convinced that -

a. Many Corollas in the 2009-10 model years (sale started early 2008) have trouble staying centered on the freeway at high-speed.

b. Not all the Corollas are affected by this problem.

So, I was just wondering if it has anything to do with where your Corolla was assembled: US, Canada, or Japan, given that often different part-suppliers are used. If your VIN starts with "1N", it means the US Corolla-etc. joint plant, if it starts with "2T" that means Toyota plant in Canada, and "JT" means Toyota plant in Japan.

Mine starts with "1N" (US, joint-assembly plant), and I don't have any trouble.

How about yours?

astrosgp · December 2010

I own a 2009 Corolla S with Manual Transmission, and it is definitely affected by the highway-veering issue. It as a "2T" VIN, so if others who have been having the issue also are "2T", we may be on to something.

I've been reluctant to get it fixed for a while, due to many reports of dealers having no idea about the problem and Toyota not saying anything publicly and not wanting to make the problem any worse. I have over 25,000 miles in almost 2 years of driving the car, but highway driving is still an extremely stressful and physically demanding experience. I've had enough, and based on the mostly positive feedback of the TSB Power Steering Computer Assembly fix, I'll probably call up my local dealer(s) to schedule the ST1006 fix.

sjarea · December 2010

shouravv,

You're welcome for the link. It is kinda hard to find. Even on the ODI website where one should be able to search for TSB's it is NOT listed. I will look at my paper work and let you know after the 1st of the year.

I am somewhat combining my answer for you 1&2- As far as I am aware there is no way to re-program it internally. It has to be Removed and Replaced. That being said it would be best IMO for an owner to have toyota do the R&R because it is covered by them. It is a labor intensive process because of where the module is located. I did not see any adverse affects of toyota doing the R&R for me (i.e the dash has to come off and I was concerned it might rattle, but no such issues have shown up since the TSB fix). But, your 'understanding' of toyota reluctance to do the costly R&R is exactly what I am thinking...that and the press it would generate.

I did not see the same thing you saw in the TSB about replacing it even if the customer is still unhappy, but I don't think that is out of the realm of possibilities given the issue IMO.
http://www.toyotapart.com/Steering_Off_Center_Feel_TSB014010.pdf

sjarea · December 2010

astrosgp,

My corolla is a "1N" VIN so the issue is not tied to a plant per say as far as I can tell.

1N stands for the NUMMI plant (RIP) in Fremont, California. A plant that I actually toured all day as part of a class I was in while obtaining my degree.

By all means - go get the TSB and print it out and take it in and tell them your vehicle is having the centering problem! You are covered by 36 months or 36K miles by the TSB so you are still under its coverage

Here is the link to the TSB-
http://www.toyotapart.com/Steering_Off_Center_Feel_TSB014010.pdf

sjarea · December 2010

terceltom,

The investigation is still on going so we shall see. Investigation summary link-
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/defect/defectsummary2.cfm?inv_id=1922- - - - - - - - - - - - - - 4&type=VEHICLE&typenum=1&cmpt_id=1&prod_id=400766&make=TOYOTA&model=COROLLA&mode- - - - - - - - - - - - - - l_yr=2009

You can really only speak for yours as I can only speak to mine. And besides the NHTSA investigation all one has to do is a google search to see how many people are out there and how many other forums beside this one are generating hits/posts......

"On another note, don't you test drive the actual car you are going to purchse and not some kind of test drive vehicle?"
Nope. And I am not the only one if you go back thru all the posts here. Who knows what a test vehicle has been thru? Do you have some way of knowing this since the vehicle I test drove had 538 miles on it? As far as I am concerned the test vehicle could have been borrowed to move someone. Who knows?

I am pretty sure I know what mine went thru since the odometer had a 1 mile reading on it which is the same mileage listed on my sales invoice. (I suspect that it rolled off the factory floor and driven to its spot in the holding lot at the factory then driven onto a truck for dealer delivery then driven off the truck and onto the dealer lot then driven over to detailing for a quick cleaning and then around the back of the lot to the front for me to drive home)

And I did not know about this issue until AFTER I bought it. And the first time I took it back (and others that I have seen in the NTHSA reports) was within hundreds of miles not thousands or tens of thousands but hundreds of miles.
Since the issue had been on-going for over a year BEFORE my purchase don't you think toyota should have told me - Hey, even though the test car you drove didn't have a centering issue some people have expressed concern about it and therefore the one you may take off the lot could have the issue and it is how the feel is or it was designed that way and you will need to get used to it (as I and others have posted we were told it was a design issue or it drives that way and we need to 'get used to it' or that it is tire pressure or alignment or crowns in the roads or *insert excuse here*causes it when we take it back in again and again and again....). No? Why not? I mean, if that IS the way it COULD drive or be interpreted that way by someone (cause that's what they told people when they brought it back to be looked at so they clearly had the answer AFTER purchase) then why not tell the potential buyer upfront?

Glad to hear you are not having any problems w/ your corolla. I clearly had an EPS issue and just want to share my experience and knowledge with others that may be in the same boat. It was not a pleasant experience and if it saves one person time or hassle or gives them peace of mind then that's all I can hope for now isn't it?

Corolla EPS TSB link-
http://www.toyotapart.com/Steering_Off_Center_Feel_TSB014010.pdf

marctrainor · December 2010

I couldn't agree more with amg1099's message. Why should we "have to" get used to a steering that's so light you can't even feel it as you drive. I have pretty steady hands and it's still driving me nuts, how this steering seems to weave to the left and right. I drive small vehicles like Honda Civic's, Mistsubishi Galant (all of which I owned), Toyota mini-trucks, etc. for the last 26 years, 8 to 10 hours a day, and I've never had the problems with steering that I've had on my 2009 Corolla S. I'm a courrier driver and do freeway as well as city. My Galant had really "sensitive" steering, but I finally got used to it, but after driving over 4000 miles, I'm still struggeling with the steering on this Corolla. I'm appalled at the lack of caring and response I'm reading about Toyota's lack of response to this issue. For a company so huge, and so important, Hey...........????????? whats up??? Oh, I bet I know what's up....... a huge loss of money if they admit they might have "screwed up", along with their recent recalls on the gas pedal issue. I loved my old Toyota mini-trucks (400,000) miles out of both of them, but now it seems like it's all about the money (as if they aren't making enough). Marc Trainor.

terceltom · December 2010

OMG, you should never purchase a car without test driving the exact vehicle you are going to purchase!

terceltom · December 2010

Take it in and allow them to fix it, it won't cost you a penny. Toyota is aware a few of these newer Corollas have steering problems.

sjarea · December 2010

TercelTom,

I do not buy what you're selling my friend.

I think you would be right in the case where someone buys a vehicle and then has 'buyers remorse' over the decision they made to purchase that make/model.

That is not the case with the people posting about EPS issue nor the cause of the NHTSA investigation into toyotas EPS issue. I say that because people who have the EPS issue classify it as a safety issue not an aesthetic one like - I don't like the color now or I wish the window controls were different or I had gotten the one with the intermittent windshield wiper function instead of wipers that are just on or off and wish I got a different make or model.

I have never ever had a problem buying the two previous brand new toyotas from stock off the lot after driving their test models(or from any other manufacturer and I have bought lots of new cars over all my years and most people I know do it exactly as I do and also do not have any problems).

And to be told what tom after testing the one I was going to buy? That it's 'how EPS feels' or the tire pressure is wrong or the crown in the road causes it or it's the alignment because that is what they would have told me or anyone else. Perhaps toyota should have tested them all before selling them?

Why should a test model drive or steer any different than the one I am going to buy?
What do you think they would have told me or done different?

Let me just put mile after mile on new cars that I MIGHT buy? Of course not. That is why they have test vehicles to begin with. Otherwise some yahoo could come on the lot and want to drive all their stock to "find the one". It does not and will not ever work or happen that way.

But, when all else fails I guess you can always fall back on blaming the customer... Because that is what toyota was doing IMO. And some have even bought tires and paid for alignments, etc. to 'fix' this problem from what I have read since during the 1.5yrs after this generation (#10) went on sale. IMO that is pretty sad.

It is NOT the general public's job to do Quality Assurance for toyota after buying the vehicle.

Here is the link to the NHTSA report summary-
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/defect/defectsummary2.cfm?inv_id=1922- - 4&type=VEHICLE&typenum=1&cmpt_id=1&prod_id=400766&make=TOYOTA&model=COROLLA&mode- - l_yr=2009

Here is the .pdf of the TSB-
http://www.toyotapart.com/Steering_Off_Center_Feel_TSB014010.pdf

sjarea · December 2010

Marc,

I agree with you 100%

terceltom · December 2010

"I have never ever had a problem buying the two previous brand new toyotas from stock off the lot after driving their test models(or from any other manufacturer and I have bought lots of new cars over all my years and most people I know do it exactly as I do and also do not have any problems)".

Well you have never had a problem until now did you? To each his own, but I would never settle on a $20,000 purchase without checking out or test driving my purchase first. I think your dead wrong that most people will spend $20,000 without a test drive of their particular vehicle first.

"Why should a test model drive or steer any different than the one I am going to buy"

Well it shouldnt but sh*t happens you know. Why does one banana in a bunch go brown and the others dont? Why do you get one flat tire at a time and not all four? Some cars come off the assembly line with problems because assemblers and even machines are not perfect my friend. Do you think a dealer would want you to test drive one of these particular vehicles with the EPS problem or do you think he would pick-out a problem free car for you to test drive? If he wants to sell you a car hes gonna want you to test drive the cream of his inventory not a lemon.

sjarea · December 2010

Do you think a dealer would want you to test drive one of these particular vehicles with the EPS problem or do you think he would pick-out a problem free car for you to test drive? If he wants to sell you a car hes gonna want you to test drive the cream of his inventory not a lemon.

Yes! That is exactly what I am saying. They picked the test models. Toyota had knowledge of this issue for almost 2yrs until the fix came out. It was an issue not only on the corolla, but other models that had the same EPS controls. They initially told people a myraid of excuses that caused it or said they did not know of the issue. It took an NHTSA investigation into this issue before they started to address it(six months after the investigatoin opened they came out w/ a fix. Shocker. NOT.).

So, yes, they picked test models they knew in advance that did not have the EPS issue and let people drive of the lots w/ cars they did or did not know had the issue directly even though they knew such and issue existed IMO.

Also, anyone can go into the NHSTA Database and pull summaries of people that said they tested the one the bought and still did not find out until later. So, if a buyer is unaware of the issue and the dealer does not even acknowledge the issue when they have known something was up for two years then of course they are going to pull models w/out the issue and let people test drive that one.

Therefore I still do not buy what you're selling about whether I should test the car I buy. It is not as 'slam dunkable' as you try to make it seem. It just makes no sense in light of everthing else.

Why? Because toyota decided that they should go w/ chips in the EPS module that were NOT flash change enabled. That is a cheaper option than going w/ a chip (EEPROM) that are flashable. Meaning there is not way the replace or update the chip in the EPS module thus it has to be replaced which is costing them money!

Like you say - stuff happens.

smallcar1 · January 2011

The new Corolla is garbage, they would have trouble selling them if without the Toyota name. I rented one in Fla. On a 2 hour drive on I95 and I4 which are very smooth the steering required constant correction. On an empty road I drove 15 MPH with my hands off the wheel and the car went straight so it was not an alignment issue. The car always felt like it was bobbing up and down gently but the road was smooth and the brakes are awful. It seems like the first touch of the brakes does nothing.

I have driven an '07 Rav4 which is on a Corolla platform and the steering had no problems at all.

The only good thing I can say about the Corolla's steering was that it was the same at 75 as it was at 55.

terceltom · January 2011

So why then did you allow him to have you test drive a hand picked cream of the crop car instead of the same lemon you wound up with?

sjarea · January 2011

TercelTom,

For the same reason they picked a corolla w/out an EPS for me to test drive.

They wanted to sell one and I wanted to buy one.

And the way your question is phrased makes it sound like I knew of the issue before hand. I did not. You have stated you own an '09. Did you know of this issue before you tested one? Of course you didn't. So, how would you have tested for it? You can't.

If I do not know about the issue how am I supposed to test or look for it? Otherwise I would never have 'allowed' them.

No one except those that endlessly believe toyota can never do any wrong would 'allow' that wouldn't they? I don't know anyone like that. Do you?

However, Toyota knew of the issue for almost 1.5yrs which is why they picked the one they did. Of course, with that knowledge toyota was allowed to sell me one w/ out the issue. Unfortunately, they did not allow that to happen. And unfortunately for toyota based on smallcar1 they are allowing them to be rented out as well. Ouch.

sjarea · January 2011

smallcar1,

Sounds like the new model corolla you rented had the EPS issue. You describe the symptoms to a T. I am also not surprised they are being rented w/ the issue. While I think that is a bad move to allow the rentals to make that impression on people(because that is exactly what it is going to do) I am not surprised....

I would assume the reason the 07 Rav doesn't have the issue even though it is one the same chassis is because the Rav has hydraulic power steering and not EPS. Do you know if the 07 Rav is hydraulic or EPS?

terceltom · January 2011

All 2009 and 2010 Corollas have EPS.

Actually I did know of the EPS problem in some of the new 2009 Corollas, that's why I insisted on test driving the same vehicle I was going to purchase. This is also why I don't have a single issue with my EPS or any other problem. Now whether or not you knew of the EPS issue in some new Corollas beforehand or not, if you would have test driven the same vehicle you were going to purchase I assume you would have caught the problem in the particular car you have now, correct?

sjarea · January 2011

Thats a pretty fast response there TercelTom.

HOW did you know the 09 had an EPS issue?

Whether I knew or not (which I did not know toyota had EPS issues) does NOT matter nor is is now a 'new' issue.

Toyota knew of the issue and continued to sell the cars. Period.

Again, if you knew HOW and if you knew why didn't toyota?

sjarea · January 2011

TercelTom,

"if you would have test driven the same vehicle you were going to purchase I assume you would have caught the problem in the particular car you have now, correct?"

No. That is incorrect. I have already pointed out numerous times such as dealers picking cars that did NOT have the EPS issue so a buyer did not know what to even look for IMO, searching in the NHTSA/ODI database, posters here and on other sites showing very clearly that people did NOT catch the problem on the vehicle they bought. So, that is four instances you can look at to see that even those that tested the vehicle they bought they did not notice the EPS. I am unclear as to why you seem to be stuck on that point.

Yet, you somehow caught it before toyota even admitted it.

Again, HOW did you know there was and EPS issue on the 09's (when toyota would not admit the problem until spring '10) and if you knew why didn't Toyota?

terceltom · January 2011

Your missing the whole point. The EPS problems in some of the newer Corollas didn't just appear on its own. If you car has this problem, it had it from day one. The vehicles that have the EPS problem, had it from the very start. Now again, if you test drove the same Corolla you were going to buy, trust me, you would have known it had you taken it out on the highway as part of your test drive. On the other hand, if you test drove a demo that was a plant from Toyota as you claim, and then decided that you were going to buy a different Corolla all together, based on that test drive, I would say that was wrong and that's what I'm trying to tell you. You should always test drive the car your actually going to buy, not a demo/plant.

As far as my own particular 2009 Toyota Corolla XLE, I accuired my car in July of 2008. Even at this early stage it was documented by some that this EPS problem was showing it's face. I asked my salesman about it before I even stepped into a Corolla. Of course he didn't know anything about it. So I made it a point to order my vehicle with all possible options and accdesories that were available. I made it very clear to my salesman that my deal was dependant on my car being totally free from any defects or steering problems when it arrived from the factory. When my car came in I took it for a thourough 30 minute test drive to verify it was in perfect condition. It was free from any EPS problem or any problem whatsoever for that matter. Hence, I bought my car. To this day I have not had to return to the dealership except for the recalls that were taken care of pronto. My car is in perfect condition because I tested it before I put my money in the dealers hands.

sjarea · January 2011

"As far as my own particular 2009 Toyota Corolla XLE, I accuired my car in July of 2008. Even at this early stage it was documented by some that this EPS problem was showing it's face."

That is what I am asking you - WHERE is this documentation you speak of that you used before you bought your car regarding specifically EPS issues.

"I made it very clear to my salesman that my deal was dependant on my car being totally free from any defects or steering problems when it arrived from the factory. "
Which of course it WAS NOT FREE OF DEFECTS since you where subjected to the pedal and/or floor mat recall.

So, even testing the car you buy will NOT show the defects. See, it even happens to you.

Again, WHERE is this documentation specifically regarding the 09 had EPS issues please.

biffpreston1 · January 2011

Sjarea,

I own a Godawful driving 2009 Toyota Corolla with EPS and I can tell you a few things about EPS and the particular type of EPS they have in this particular make and model of car. This guy that trolls this message board defending Toyota against any and all negative criticism is not being honest with you or anyone else he has corresponded with about the EPS issue pertaining to the Corolla.

I don't know what sort of problem your haiving with the car but I personally think every aspect of road handling is extremely bad in the new Corolla with EPS. I just wrote a researxh report on electric power steering for one of my english classes last semester in which i detailed the different types of electric steering systems , the different manufacturers and the makes and models of cars these different makes and models of electric steering systems were being placed in. I know a bit about electric steering. I have posted quite a bit of negative things about this car in the past and I know quite a bit more now than I did then.

I don't know what your complaint is about the car what you want or expect can be done about it. I can give you an honest answer but you may or may not like it. It might not appeal to you.

I will be happy to direct you to the website of JTEKT, which is the company producing these steering systems and Toyota happens to own 25 percent of this company as well.

http://www.jtekt.co.jp/e/products/steering01.html

If you go to their website you will see several different types of electric steering systems. The steering system at the top, which is column type, is what you have in your car, the 2009 or 2010 or 2011 Corolla whichever it may be. This is by far the cheapest electric steeing system to manufacture and install in a car of all the types. If you look down below at some of the other types such as the pinion type and the rack type you will note in the descriptions that JTEKT which is the manufacturer provides they state that these two other systems provide excellent road handling and road feel. I have test driven cars with both of these other types of electric steering in them and I can attest that the cars I have driven with these other systems in them drove very well. I have driven several new Corollas with EPS and they all drive terribly. Loose wobbly steering with extremely bad road handling. Very difficult to maneuver the car in traffic. This is the way the steering system is engineered to drive. It is not a few cars having a problem. Anyone who tells you that is simply lying to you.

Let me also tell you about test driving cars. I did not notice on my test drive how bad the Corolla with EPs was going to handle. On a dinky little test drive around the block you cant really get a good feel for how a car is going to handle unless you very specifically test the handling of the car by puling it off into a parking lot and maneuvering it a little bit. My car didnt seem all that bad when I drove it around the block on the test drive but when I started driving it in traffic during normal usage it was immediately and apparently clear. I started noticing how bad it handled on the drive home from the dealer.

Anyway, I don't know what you hope to do about your car but I wish you the best.

Biff

sjarea · January 2011

Biffpreston1,

"I don't know what your complaint is about the car what you want or expect can be done about it. I can give you an honest answer but you may or may not like it. It might not appeal to you. "

I appreciate it and all you've done. Hopefully your teacher gives you and A+ for your work and effort. I would

Before I go into any (or more) detail may I ask you if you have had the TSB fix applied?

Here is the link to the TSB which you should print and take to the dealer w/you.
http://www.toyotapart.com/Steering_Off_Center_Feel_TSB014010.pdf

Also, I would also advise you to A) call the 1-800 toyota experience number and

File a complaint under 'steering' with the NHTSA and specifically the Ofiice of Defective Investigations (ODI)
Here is the link to file a complaint-
https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

Outside of doing those three things 1st I say thanks again and will tell you I have book marked your link and ALWAYS keep my options open....

sjarea · January 2011

Biffpreston1,

Couple of quick thoughts - Since you have started your research and produced a paper I would suggest you A) put it online if you are comfortable w/ it because I am sure it is excellent based on your motivation to write such paper and I'd like to see it

Shop that sucker around (aka e-mail it) to car media types and see if they would want to buy/use, print or post on their websites. C) Mail (or e-mail) that sucker off to JTEKT

specifically to:
Chairman Kohshi Yoshida
President and Director Motohiko Yokoyama
EVP and Director Shoji Ikawa
Osaka Head Office
3-5-8 Minamisemba, Chuo-ku, Osaka 542-8502 Japan

Now, you may get nothing back which is fine. You may even hear back which is even better.

The main reason I suggest this now is to get your name and work out there because if you do and there is a recall you could stand to benefit from it. In that scenario you've already made the contacts and since you are now known they will come a runnin' back to you. So, keep all your options open for the work you've produced and the knowledge you've gained because you never know.

sjarea · January 2011

once last thing-

"I just wrote a researxh report on electric power steering for one of my english classes last semester in which i detailed the different types of electric steering systems , the different manufacturers and the makes and models of cars these different makes and models of electric steering systems were being placed in. I know a bit about electric steering. I have posted quite a bit of negative things about this car in the past and I know quite a bit more now than I did then. "

I bet you do!

"I don't know what your complaint is about the car what you want or expect can be done about it. I can give you an honest answer but you may or may not like it. It might not appeal to you. "

Do tell. I've had the TSB fix applied a while back. Lets just say I am still in the testing mode.
Lay into it, pra-fessor. What did you learn about EPS? Based on what you learned how does that apply or perhaps not apply to the TSB fix in your view.

biffpreston1 · January 2011

Sjarea

I wrote a research report. It doesnt make me an engineer and I certainly do not claim to be one. It simply gave me a better idea about these steering systems. Without having very detailed technical knowledge about the design characteristics of the column mounted electric steering I could not accurately describe in terms my absolute belief which I will dare say is fact that there is nothing that can be done to the column mounted electric steering systems in these cars to make the steering responsive and accurate. Column mounted electric steering really is an already outdated type of electric steering. It is a primitive and poorly performing type of electric steering system. Unfortunately when manufactures start using a system like this in their cars unless there is severe pressure to change to a better system through consumer pressure or governmental pressure they will continue to produce them as long as they can as long as people buy them.

I have driven 4 different models of two different makes of cars that use column mounted electric steering and every one of them drives exactly the same. Loose wobbly steering at low speeds, sharp accurate turns are impossible, completely disconnected road feel, excessive free-play in the steering wheel etc..... The Toyota Corolla, Toyota Yaris, Nissan Sentra and Nissan Versa were the four cars. They all drove exactly the same. I believe there are 6 different settings in the Corolla for the amount of assist the car gives you depending on what speed ranges you are travelling at. Tinkering around with that feature of the steering system is not going to make the car steer more accuraterly or make the steering more responsive. This is what the so called TSB is all about and it is nothing but a customer service strategy. As i said it is an already outdated form of electric steering that performs very poorly.

I also reported this problem to the NHTSA two years ago and also contacted Toyota. I contacted several attorneys offices as well in order to attempt to start a lemon case to no avail unfortunately. I chose to learn more about electric steering by writing my research report on it in order not to make the same mistake that I did in buying my Corolla in the first place.

Go test drive a new ford car using electric assist rack and pinion steering. Earlier in some of my posts I was harping on how much better the Honda Civic and Mazda 3 handled than the new Corolla with EPS. The new Ford cars with their rack and pinion type of EPS handle much better than even the Honda Civic and Mazda 3. The Ford Fiesta is probably the best handling small car I have ever driven. I'm about to sell this piece of junk I have and buy one of those probably but not until I have test driven the Hyundai's and Volkswagens first. I doubt i will buy one of those but I still plan to consider all options.

Biff

terceltom · January 2011

Evidence ? - How about - Toyotanation.com - June of 2008
Insideline.com - December of 2007
Houstoncars.com - March of 2008

I could go on and on, didn't you believe me ? ? ? ? I didn't even need to write a reasearch paper to find all of this out, just had to be an informed buyer.

My Corolla was not affected at all by the recalls at all, my car was returned for me to maximize my resale value should I ever decide to part ways with my "09" Corolla.

terceltom · January 2011

No here's the REAL TRUTH -

See what Biff isn't telling you is he refuses to have the "EPS fix" done by Toyota that was recommended. There were others that were affected by this EPS problem that have now had "the fix" completed that are now very happy with their Corollas.

He also fails to recognize that this problem is not Corolla wide. He insist that this problem affects all 2009 and 2010 Corollas built, and that is just not true. Read the post from others like myself that have perfect cars.

By the way he now states he still has his"piece of junk" as he puts it; many post ago he told us he sold it back to Toyota for a hefty sum and was done with it . . . . . So what is it ? ? ? ?
Maybe you'd like to take his advice and buy a Ford Fiesta ! . . . LOL

Toyota Corolla Electric-Assist Power Steering (EPS)

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles