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Comments
Let's start with the bad.
The mother-in-law seat is much smaller than the current 8 seat model. Sure the outer seats now have arm rests and are proper captain's chairs, but I'd say it's about 10" wide instead of the old 20" wide center seat. It's bigger than the Ody's, and they provide a great way to store it, but if you want 3 seats in the middle row all the time, the 2004-2010 model is better, period.
We also lost the 3rd row tailgate feature. The way the seat folds has changed, and it's easier to lift and flip and fold it, but you can no longer make the seat face rearward and have the kids sit there during a tailgate party.
The 3rd strike is the plastic dash - it's not as soft as the outgoing one. It looks OK but the tactile feel is not as plush, padded. Not a big deal, I suppose, but I like to point out any cost cutting I see.
Now the good...
People were crawling all over this van. If Toyota's rep is injured, you would never have known. You had to wait in line to sit in the driver's seat.
Wow those 2nd row seats are cool. Nothing short of a Mayback or 750iL is better. Tall people won't fit, but your kids will nap there and not want to leave. Ever.
All 2nd row models now get arm rests, too.
The dash looks thoroughly modern. This is largely a matter of taste, but it does make the old one (and competitors) seem dated.
The 16" DVD screen is clever because the low profile means it doesn't even block the rear view mirror as much.
The 2nd row seats have MAJOR travel, they go way forward, and waaaaay back, basically touching the 3rd row seats. Very versatile.
The 3rd row windows still open, unlike the Ody's which are fixed. Powered, too.
I was pretty impressed. I've planned to keep my 2007 until the wheels fall off, and I don't think I'll change those plans, but if I were buying a new van today it would definitely make my short list.
Honda will show a new Ody concept at the Chicago Auto Show so let's see how they respond. Here's my wish list for the updated Honda:
* more HP
* improved cylinder deactivation - on LX too
* comfier 8th seat
* AWD option
* 3rd row windows that open
* tailgating 3rd row
* 2nd row that flips forward
* fold flat passenger seat (forgot to check that on 2011 Sienna)
* more hidden sliding door tracks on exterior
Hopefully all the noise around Toyota will keep enough people on the sidelines that dealers don't get greedy with their pricing here early on.....I'll pay a fair premium over invoice (500-750 would be ideal) but I'm not going to be silly and pay sticker or sticker-plus. Plus Honda's timing is perfect - get the buzz out about the new Odyssey too so some people might decide to wait 6 months for it and not rush into the Sienna.
I think I knew more than they did about it.
I did sign up for a brochure but they said it will take a couple of weeks! :mad:
Space seemed fine. They had the 2nd row aaaaalllll the way back so it actually seemed bigger at first glance, but then I noticed the seat was touching the 3rd row.
I'm guessing the "bridge", i.e. mother-in-law seat is about 10" wide now. But you have arm rests between the seats, so it's well partitioned.
XLE, and a Limited. No LEs where there.
Did not look for a USB port, sorry, I should have looked (Subaru Outback has one and the Legacy model does not - odd).
I did get there early and took a look before everyone came. Should have spent more time. Forgot my camera (DOH) and my tape measure (double DOH).
Access to the 3rd row is easy if you remove the middle seat, though. I guess it's like the Highlander's now.
So you're going to the Chicago auto show? That's pretty soon, right?
Be prepared to answer all the same questions about the new Ody (if you can get in it, I think it's just a concept).
The Sienna is one of the few models they have that they CAN sell.
So someone comes in looking for a 3 row Highlander, and salesmen will probably try to put them in a Sienna.
Buyers might get a Sienna because it's their only choice right now.
That seems to be why 2010 prices have not dropped even though the 2011s are starting to arrive.
I'm not sure how much the recall thing will affect Sienna sales - I think initially the dealers will be "proud" and may try to hold to sticker, because all the people like us will be calling in excited to try out the new model. I think the prior point on incentives is, will Toyota decide to do a firm-wide "goodwill" move to kick up traffic once they've fixed their current issues - something to give people a more compelling reason to get back to the dealers TODAY - to get back on the proverbial bicycle after they've fallen off.....otherwise its just "OK so we fixed our gremlin accelerators, so we're happy to sell you a car again whenever you're ready......" not as compelling.
Not certain they'll actually do an incentive but the above could be a rationale for one....
I don't think they'll convert people from a Camry to a Sienna, but from a 3-row Highlander to a Sienna is possible.
I don't think the slow down in sales is a matter of days - more like weeks. They have to fix all the cars either as they sell them or before offering them again. For sure you're not going to let someone test drive a car that might go careening out of control. I know that is not the true situation, but that is the perception.
As a matter of discussion. IMHO a person buying a Camry is more likely to consider a Sienna. I would think most people considering a Highlander are specifically trying to avoid a minivan.
That is a good point about the prices of the 2010's.
I know this is all just speculating, but I like to getting other's perspectives. It will certainly help me if we considering getting into a Sienna earlier than later. We have specifically waited for the new one to come out. In the past we've always bought right at the end of a model iteration.
My wife and I are interested in the Sienna. With a 2nd child on the way it is time for me to turn in my Jeep Liberty for a more family friendly vehicle.
One of the main reasons we are looking at the Sienna is the AWD. However I have read about a lot of issues/bad experiences with the run-flats. Is it possible to get the AWD without these?
From what I have read on the forum about the run-flats the AWD does not come with a spare so I will need to purchase this as well. Do the AWD models have a space for the donut spare and could a full size spare fit there? I am used to my Jeep having full size spares and hated driving my wife's Camry with the donut after getting a flat on I95 in MD at 3AM with our 3 y.o. wide awake in the back.
Thanks!
The driveshaft runs where the spare normally goes, so you'd have to toss the donut in the well in the back (there is still tons of room, but it may be a nuisance to keep moving it out of the way).
Another option would be a FWD model with a set of snow tires.
With 2 kids I strongly recommend power sliding doors. You will love them.
In many instances, snow tires on FWD work just fine (and in some instances like stopping better than AWD on all-seasons), but it depends on your circumstances.
I guess having the AWD was a nice "back of the mind" kinda thing know it was there if needed when in fact I don't use all that often. I don't like the way the Jeep handles when in AWD. Everything is stiff.
I have another basic question I hope someone can assist with. I keep reading about cars that have a USB connection of mp3 players and most refer to the iPod. I own a Creative player. Can these connections scan any external drive, find music and what not, and play it with tag info and all or are they set to only recognize the iPods? I would think they would work with all types of external storage.
Again, thanks everyone for your help.
I drive an AWD BMW with runflats. I have 42K miles on them which seems reasonable for a performance tire. The negative is when you hit a pothole it will take out fillings in that the sidewalls are so rigid. Not sure if that's the tires, the car, or both.
If I were in MD I would get the FWD version. There are about 3 days/year you will need AWD and on those days I would not want my family on the road in that area (we lived in Northern VA for 5 years and they do not handle the snow all too well and ice is no match for AWD or FWD).
Spare or no spare I think all cars should have runflats. They can save lives as they do not blow out like traditional tires. I would bet in 10 years it won't be an option. I would replace traditional tires with them regardless if the car has a spare tires. The risk of a blow out or changing a tire on the beltway is far worse than spending a couple hundred dollars more on a set of replacement tires. The price of run flats is not much more that a decent traditional tire. There are just no inexpensive run flats. For me it's about my family's safety which trumps ride quality, road noise, tread life, and price.
Unless they improve the technology, I hope you're wrong. In certain situations they are better. But in all my years of driving, I've never had a tire "blow out" (knock on wood). I've had many slow leaks and nail punctures which can be fixed for $10-20 at any tire store. I'm not even sure they'll allow you to patch a runflat.
Too expensive, not a comfy ride, bad treadwear. If they are so great, how come manufacturers are moving away from them in some cases (like making them OPTIONAL again in certain vehicles)? Remember the automatic seatbelts? What a great invention - makes sure people wear their seatbelt, and saves our lazy butts from having to extend our arms to reach a belt. Where are they now?
Edit - you can pick the XLE 8 and it has the reduction in price since it is really FWD. You just have to not change the Drive.
Any technology that is embraced is improved upon. That's always been the case.
In my analysis, which is a study of one, I am happy with them. They are no more expensive than a QUALITY traditional tire. I have over 40K miles on them on an AWD car. My guess is I get over 50K perhaps 60K miles which is good for any performance/sport tire. My wife's car, also AWD, got 20K miles out of regular tires which makes me think it's the car (heavy AWD cars eat tires alive). Not to mention the price of all season tires for upper end SUVs.
I would guess manufacturers are making them an option to make more money which is fine. I know that a lot of cars that have them do not have space for spare tires which make them more of a necessity. It seems like the cars that have them are AWD vehicles which is an option onto itself. The space used for a spare is allocated to the rear drivetrain.
The use of runflats in AWD vehicles makes it easier for the manufacturer to design the driveshaft. The additional weight of the AWD system is somewhat offset by the reduction of a spare tire, housing, jack, compartment to put it in etc.
The concept of runflats makes perfect sense. In my experience they have been fine other than them being a little less forgiving on pot holes. In general runflats are used on AWD cars which emphatically wear quicker than FWD or RWD vehicles. Add to that the fact that AWD minivan's and SUV's are very heavy further decreases the life of the tires.
Over 50K miles if a set of tires costs me an extra $25/tire or $100 it's a small price to pay to never have to have my wife (or myself) use a jack on the interstate or wait 45 minutes for roadside assistance.
I've seen a lot of good concepts in the past - and under no circumstances would I be willing to be their ginny pig and pay extra money for that. Just go to http://www.runflattireproblem.com/ and check Pro and Cons for yourself. For me run flat on AWD is the deal breaker - not only the price, but rollover accidents, poor grip on the corners, etc. I was considering AWD but after reading all those comments on the Net - why would I pay extra for AWD and Run Flats?
If the weather is really that bad out there - sit home and enjoy the day off.
Here are my pans on the new Sienna, for anyone that's interested. May seem minor but actually ends up being material to me.
1) 8th pax seat is tiny, like Honda. Fine. But here's the thing, when you take it out, there is left behind a 3-4 inch tall plastic "base" across the whole floor, that has cupholders in it. This is attached to the driver side 2nd seat, and moves fore and aft. Yes you can step over it, but it makes for a less functional "walk thru" to the rear. Also, there is a large "slot" on the top of the driver side second seat where the middle seat hooks in - it has a rubbery cover to sort of hide the mechanism, and that was ALREADY RIPPED. This is a car they've had for 3, maybe 4 days. It was pretty cheap feeling to have a ripped thing visible at all times on the seat - you cant hide it esp when center seat is stowed.
2) the center front console is now fixed, where on the old Sienna and Honda it folds down so the wife COULD walk from pax seat to the back. Can't really do that on the 11s.
3) You can no longer move the 2nd row seat together like you can on the Honda, and the old 7 pax Siennas.
The above relate to interior flexibility and function, which is the main reason I'd dump my Pilot for a minivan.
4) another gripe - when you remove the 2nd row seats completely, there is a pretty large "base" also left behind, for anyone who cares about having a flat floor for cargo.
Other thoughts --
-plastic dash looks nice but feels cheap to the touch - hard textured feel
-Wood trim on XLE is darker and nicer than on the previous Siennas, which I thought were Fugly (no offense to current owners). I could have lived with it.
-Seats were quite comfy.
-Didn't like leather wrapped wheel - had a very pebbly texture. LE wheel was better, but was just plasticky.
-Sienna drove nicely - nice and composed. Honda also very nice. I haven't driven a 2010 Sienna to compare.
-Sunroof is cheesy in the XLE - it is the kind that just pops up and hangs out in the wind above the car at an angle while open.....Honda tucks back under the roof inside....only positive I can see with Toyota is that it probably doesn't cut down as much headroom.
- I still like the outside look of the Sienna and am therefore somewhat bummed....I WANTED to love this car but unfortunately the better van in terms of function (for me) is the Honda.
If I think of anything else I'll report. Not trying to dissuade anyone else from a Sienna - just figured you'd all like a candid opinion on some things. I know I appreciate as much info as I can get in these decisions.
Best of luck to everyone
link title
- It's very narrow
- It's difficult to remove and as you stated, on the van I saw the plastic on the base and seat slots was ripped.
- Once removed I was also surprised to see the fixed base with cupholders on the floor!!! I did use the slide forward feature on the seats and it was easy to use but my kids are used to going between the 2nd row seats to get to the 3rd row.
Other points:
- Also thought the dash felt cheap
- Actually prefer the console/front storage design of my van 2010 to the 2011
- I didn't drive it.
- I really like the styling of the 2011 but overall was not impressed.
We are looking to replace our '96 Chrysler T&C LXI, but it's still running pretty good, so we aren't in any hurry.
Rumor has it that the Odyssey redesign will be announced this month with new production models available for sale this fall. NHTSA has records of SUA events for Odyssey, as well, but not nearly the number Sienna has (drastically less if you compare by market share). Not sure if new Odys will have brake override feature or not.
Guess we'll just wait a little longer, eh?
I also noted the dash on my '07 is padded and the new one isn't.
I do like the 2011 design more, however.
New Odyssey "concept" comes out on this Tuesday at the Chicago Auto Show -- in the past supposedly the concepts are basically a production model, so should be a good enough preview.
To be fair, Toyota did add lots of content.
1) No matter what the trim level, this Sienna is GORGEOUS in black. I mean, my heart was filled with lust! Even the CE, which lacked tinting on the rear windows, was pleasing.
2) I HATE that you cannot get a sunroof on the LE as an option. I'd have to move up to the XLE to gain one, which presents a problem: I'm don't like leather interior. Still, the look of the leather upholstery is exquisite.
3) I love the shorter look of the hood and the increased width of the van. It has a muscular, athletic stance to it, which were a aesthetic feast to my eyes. And, if you peer into the driver's side window just so, you can get a pretty good feel for what the outward view would be throught the windshield once you were seated. The hood line seemed completely out of view. More points for Toyota!
4) No fog lamps on the LE. Wonder if they'll at least be available as a dealer installed accessory?
5) This is definitely a Forever Mobile. That is, once purchased, I'd plan to keep this until she kicked the bucket. Or, I did--whichever came first.
Wish I'd been able to sit inside, but it is Sunday, so no such luck.
And: If Toyota's recent 'crisis' spells gloom and doom, you wouldn't have known it. There were loads of people looking at new cars today, even with the chilly temperature. While I think concern is to be expected when there are recalls, I can't help but feel the media has, as usual, blown the matter completely out of proportion. It's all political b.s.; the domestic brands now have room to scream why you should buy from them. Yeah, good luck with that. I personally don't think GM would have done half as much as Toyota with regard to informing the public and getting quick fixes in place. Just my two cents worth. Will I buy the new Sienna? I'll reserve final judgment pending a test drive, but all indicators point to 'yes' right now. Honestly, this is a beautiful van.
You think that is bad. In my area (Minnesota), to get AWD, you have to move up to the XLE (at least according to the "build your Toyota website").
Thanks for the information. I can see how those little things can be really annoy if I were to own this car for 10 yrs. However, I think on the Limted edition, all these little issues go away (hopefully). My local dealers have both the LE and XLE, but I want to compare XLE to the LTD (it is 6K more) and see if the 6K is well worth it...
On another note, I am also excited to see Honday's concept for the Odyseey tomorrow. I am buying a van, but not in a terrible rush, if Honda can presale me on their concept, then Sienna will need have a huge discount to move me to buy ASAP.