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Comments
I can imagine a 4 cyl Sienna being pushed by a Prius at an on ramp.
Now imagine you have 8 people crammed in there, with luggage to add even more weight.
0-60 in 14 seconds with a full load sounds a bit too exciting. :surprise:
We love the smooth and quiet ride, and the engine is really peppy, I find the Sienna surprisingly quick given its size. The steering wheel is really nice too. The car feels cavernous inside. Despite the numb steering, it handles fine for a minivan, and after a couple hundred miles, the steering feel(or lack thereof) is not a concern - it bothered us more on the test drive. As many have mentioned, the dashboard plastic and faux-wood are really horrible, it's hard to imagine it can't be easily improved.
The radio sound is pretty lousy, I thought it'd be better, as I believe it's the same unit you'd have if you got the entertainment system. Built-in XM is nice, lots of presets, reception is good too, it's just the sound quality is lacking. The station tuning dial is really far from the driver. Even at 6' tall, it's a stretch for me( I know there's steering wheel controls, but they don't do everything) I was going to get a Garmin for Nav, but now I'm considering a full in-dash replacement like the high-end Pioneer or Kenwood units, along with an aftermarket DVD system. It'll still come in under half the price of the Toyota offerings.
The climate control layout is about as unintuitive as possible. Of course you'll quickly get used to anything, but even so, it seems to have been done with no thought involved whatsoever.
This is replacing an aging Town&Country. I just couldn't go with Mopar again after the problems I had with that vehicle. I could overlook some things, but every Chrysler dealer/service dept. I've had to deal with have been horrible. And the aging Odyssey is the worst minivan on the market, IMO.
So on balance, really happy with the Sienna, except for the dash and radio issues mentioned above...
I found the Emunds review to be spot on: "An abundance of hard plastics serve to cheapen the experience, an excessive amount of buttons overcomplicate even the simplest of tasks, and iPod integration is notably absent. On higher trim levels, even the leather upholstery is decidedly downmarket."
Somehow they manage to conclude "it's easy to see why the Honda Odyssey remains our top pick for a minivan."
In any case, the Odyssey is obviously competent, but to me the Sienna is much nicer all around, despite my complaints.
The radio complaints are being addressed. Depending on whether I replace the the Sienna's speakers or not, I'm going to spend $1800-$2500 for in-dash navigation w/Bluetooth, 11" screen (diagonal, not that ridiculous 11" wide dual-screen Toyota offers), and the higher price would include new Pioneer speakers all around. I paid $30155 + tax for an XLE, so I'll be around $32k with the after-market stuff.
I was tempted to wait for the new Odyssey, but I think they'll be going for closer to sticker when they're new, and I have to have a new minivan for ski season.
Have a question for you. Where do you buy/install these quality aftermarket dvd players or in dash navigation systems? I know as a chain Best Buy does them-- but guys working over there are just kids whom I dont trust and they can mess up the costly electronics. Impossible for them to know the electrical lay outs in the latest complicated cars and that too for every make?
So , do you suggest any place for these? Thanks. :shades:
And I keep repeating this -- But boy ,what`s up with those plastic interiors in the '11 Sienna? Feels Dodge/Chrysler like. Personally I think it`s a backward step from the previous gen. What were they thinking really with those horrible cheap plastic interiors? :confuse:
Here's what I did, though. Sneak around back of any installer, and ask if they mind showing you around. Usually they're not supposed to, but the guy who installed mine was friendly and gave me a quick tour of his shop - which was impeccable. Clean and well equipped.
I asked what the install would entail - and his answer proved to me that he was familiar with the Sienna (power is there for the factory DVD, but they run wiring to the door switch). He was right, too. He also knew the products - the in-store display was beige, but he told me the box contained both gray and beige.
Sure enough, the gray matched my interior nicely.
So see if you can meet the actual installer, whether it's at Best Buy or not.
I went with the Pioneer Z120BT, it's what the guy who owns the shop has in his car, though he's a licensed Pioneer, Kenwood and Alpine installer. They're all really nice systems. The Pioneer has really nice iPod/iPhone integration, which is a nice plus.
As for where to install - most of these dedicated auto sound and security shops really know what they're doing. I had a similar install in my Town & Country, and it was great. I found my installer from both the Kenwood and Pioneer websites, they list their authorized installers, there were a handful within a few miles of where I live. Lots of this stuff can be a DIY install if you're handy and have a couple of hours. If not for the overhead screen, I'd do it myself. There's no "trim kit" for the 2011 Sienna yet, but there's a couple of guys (Metra for instance) that will have them soon. In the meantime, my installer is fabricating one, I'll report on how good it looks, he's going to put in the trim kit as soon as it's available. The aftermarket head units are better than 99% of factory radios, those things are really lousy for the most part. I thought the Toyota split screen is a useless gimmick, and the picture size is really small since the screen is so small in the vertical dimension.
I'm also having an inverter installed (300W 120v) and the steering wheel controls will work, and all-in, I'm spending about $2k, I'll post that total when I pick it up as well.
Do you have the JBL sound?
IIRC when I went shopping for a GPS head unit I found the LE model was supposedly not compatible if it lacked the JBL package.
I ended up with a portable Garmin 1490T, and I'm happy and spent 1/4th the price.
I think the LE and XLE 6 speaker systems are the same, though I'm not sure. In any case, there wasn't any issue installing any of the double-din navigation systems, and the Pioneer setup is pretty nice. I played with it a few minutes last night, the sound is much better, controls are not all that intuitive, but with so many options/functions, it's hard to make it very simple.
Garmins are great, but I've had two stolen. I think they're the best nav units, hands down. The Kenwoods use Garmin nav.
What rear entertainment screen did you install. Mine is a NESA, and it isn't all that good - I may have it changed out.
To be honest nothing special about it minus the large size - 4x3 screen format (not widescreen) and regular def, no HD.
Having one is priceless, though. The kids never complain on trips. For us it's silent until we hear occasional giggles, so cute. They complain if we arrive before the movie finishes!
sienna sales should taper off when the 2011 honda odyssee comes out some time next year.
some people got overexcited about the newly / redesigned model. first yr. redesigned production is the least reliable; so imo, it's better to wait until its 2nd yr.
If you want a 6 speed automatic, the price is in the $40s. :surprise:
23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd
Strangely, the Sienna SE is the closest looking thing in the US to what I saw in Japan, but of course, they don't sell the Sienna there.
23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd
But the interior is totally different. The Ody looks to have much better interior with high quality materials and soft high quality plastic unlike Sienna. :shades:
So dont know how this will play out. If Ody`s exterior was better---it would have been a home run. Also I think folks will pay the premium for the Ody. Infact more than 70% sales for the 05-10 model were the EX-L trim and above unlike the Sienna which has a majority of LE sales which are much less profitable.
The new Sienna's interior looks good, but touch it and that impression goes away. Surfaces that used to be soft/padded are now hard.
I agree that Honda may be going for the high-end of the price scale, and that could work well for them.
Remember, though, only the high-end models get the 6 speed automatic and that 28mpg. They combine the tall 6th gear plus cylinder deactivation, but you have to spend more then $40 grand to get it.
Spending $40k plus to save 2mpg makes little financial sense.
Toyota gives you a V6/6 speed for prices in the $20s.
A similarly price Ody isn't really far ahead of a Sienna, because Honda still uses a 5 speed automatic on the affordable models.
And I admit that the interior is much better, but still far from perfect (design-wise, not quality). But I won't discuss it here, this is a Sienna forum, not an Odyssey.
Driven hard, the Sienna was significantly more efficient, and that matters to me because vans are NOT for light duty, it's all about carrying people and cargo, and lots of it!
Hey, give me one, and I'll coast down from Pikes Peak and get the trip computer to read 99mpg (the maximum). Do I get a bonus if I win? LOL
berri: I looked it up, and I'm afraid that's a myth.
EPA combined for the Sienna V6 is 20mpg, and for the Ody LX, EX, and EX-L it's 21mpg. That's just a single mpg difference.
The Touring gets the 6 speed auto, but it also carries a starting price of $41,535.
The grand majority of Odysseys will be LX and EX, so it's fair to say Honda only really has a single MPG over the Sienna on the EPA test.
So basically you choose - 18 more horsepower, or 1mpg. That's a tough call, actually. I'm all for high-mileage, but I haul heavy loads so give me all the horsepower I can get. Honestly? For a van? 18hp > 1mpg.
Now let's see what real-world tests can find.
When you compare the Ody Touring to a Sienna Limited in the $40k plus arena, the difference is 2mpg, and that might trump the 18hp in my book. Thing is, if you can afford a $40,000 plus minivan, most people probably want the 18hp more than you want to save a couple of bucks a week on fuel.
I'm an oddball, not to mention I would not be shopping in the $40k price range for either of these. That's too much.
Trade-offs, I suppose. But not a clear choice at all, IMHO.
I think everyone sees that EPA highway number and assumes thats it. But it doesn't reflect real world driving for many unless it's strictly used as a road trip car. Combined seems to be a more meaningful comparison.
23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd
Funny thing was - the ECO light almost never went on. Only when you were coasting to a red light, and I know my Sienna does that anyway.
The Sienna cuts fuel flow, but doesn't seal up 3 cylinders like the Ody.
The new Ody is supposed to have a better VCM system and I think now ALL models get it, it was EX-L and up only before.
Other factors? Gearing. In the old Ody, the models with VCM had shorter gearing. So you get better mileage when VCM is active and using only half the cylinders, but the rest of the time they actually rev higher than the non-VCM Ody did, consuming more fuel, ironically.
I guess if I were in the market, I'd be looking at the transmissions and gearing. Remember - Toyota makes a 6 speed auto standard, with Honda you gotta spend over $40 big ones, else it's a 5 speed.
But the ride is really smooth and quiet.
As of quality, I am not much of an expert, and I don't understand what's wrong. The appearance of the interior is nice & elegant, except for a few minor drawbacks, but can anyone explain me how exactly you measure quality? What areas are supposed to be "soft" and feels "hard"? I would like to try it and compare it by myself. Thanks.
Try this - touch the old dash, it had some padding and little give. The new one is hard to the touch (FWIW it looks OK, feels hard).
Better yet, pop open the new glove box. Very plasticky.
Touch the door panels, the ceiling material, the doors to storage compartments, etc.
I was in a dealership recently and they had the old, outgoing Scion tC right next to a new Sienna, and the overall feel in there was slightly more upscale, with rubberized materials in some places. The Camry also had a padded dash, and some nicer touches. Venza also, it's nicer than a Highlander if you compare them back-to-back.
The RAV4 and new Sienna don't have the same quality of materials that even Toyota's other cars (Camry, Venza) have.
Tundra has hard plastics all around despite the high price, though that may be OK given the duties it's expected to perform.
My conclusion was this - don't generalize, even within the same brand, material feel and quality varies greatly, and not just according to price!
How so..?
The only logical and/or "legal" use of fog lights is during the daylight hours in actual foggy conditions. Most states REQUIRE that the main beams be used/on during the hours 30 minutes after sunset until 30 minutes prior to sunrise. Obviously fog lights will have little effect at illumination when "over-shadowed" by the main beams.
Insofar as a "DRL" effect fog light beam patterns are intentionally low and wide so "distance", oncoming driver "notice" is ineffective.
Then there is the issue of the fact that the close in fog light low and wide beam pattern is detrimental to your own forward night distance vision.
And only then if you happen to have the ability to turn on the fog lights without the mains being on also. Most asian, and some US, origin cars musy be modified for that ability.
Now, thanks for the message! It's probably important to know! (is it?) but why does it need to show it the entire time? For so many hours? Every time I glanced on the screen, I momentarily thought that some caution message is displayed wanting to inform me something "really" important.
This was very annoying. In my Honda, it's the opposite, you'll never see any message about passenger airbag, UNLESS a young child or package is on the seat, and the sensors feels that the airbag should NOT be used, only then it will display "AIRBAG OFF" light. Now that's much better.
I wouldn't call it great, but I did notice a few things that were a bit nicer than similar things in the Sienna. A few soft-touch materials.
I bought a Sienna XLE minivan with navigation and entertainment system in August 2011. I have run into problems with the microphone couple of times :
1. first time, i pressed sos system to enable it and it took couple of hours to establish the link. during that time, my microphone and speakers were disabled.
As soon as the SOS light turned green, everything went back to normal.
2. Now SOS light is permanently showing red meaning it is not active and microphone is picking up my our voices very low. i have played around with lot of settings already but nothing is working.
Any suggestions/ or has anybody run into this problem ?
It may be that microphone has gone bad or sos system is malfunctioning causing problems to microphone.
To be honest, we did have one problem with it, one that was serious. The engine died at a stoplight and would not restart. Had to have it towed to a nearby Chrysler dealer where the technician found a wire had grounded against the intake manifold and blew a fuse. To play it safe he replaced the entire wiring harness and wrapped additional conduit around the harness near the intake manifold. That was when it was 3 1/2 months old and had 2,200 miles. Chrysler roadside assistance took care of the tow.
Before then, and since then, it has performed marvelously. On a recent 3,500 mile road trip the T&C averaged over 25.5 mpg, including a couple of tanks where the mileage was just shy of 29 mpg. (Mileage figures based on actual odometer and pump readings, not the on-board computer). We were pleasantly surprised by how quiet and smooth riding it was.
We have also been very impressed with the various features of the T&C, all standard on the Limited trim model. We paid $31,200+T/L for a vehicle that comes standard with: HID headlights, fog lights, LED lights throughout the interior, power sliders and rear hatch, leather interior, power adjustable pedals, chrome 17" wheels, TPMS (tire pressure monitoring system), 6.5" screen for backup camera, MyGig system, a 4.0L V-6 with 6-speed automatic transmission, and Sto 'n Go (a feature we use a lot). The only option on our T&C Limited is the towing package; none of the fancy video or navigation options.
Anyway, while at one point after the fuse blew in the engine I wondered if we should have gone ahead and payed the extra $9,000 for the Sienna Limited, I'm satisfied that the Town & Country Limited will be fine for us.
At 5,000 miles I rotated the tires myself to check the condition of the brakes (a common complaint of '08 Chrysler minivans), and they looked like new. On our recent trip we did a lot of driving in the mountain southwest, so it will be interesting to see the brake condition at 10,000 miles.
BTW, the owner's manual has a very clear description of the onboard EDR and exactly what information it collects. It also says there are virtually thousands of computers that can read the Chrysler EDR. No secrets like Toyota.
Thanks for your consideration,
Jeannine Fallon
Corporate Communications
Edmunds Inc.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
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Our 2000 braking is fine for light to moderate braking but with hard or heavy braking ''way" too much pedal pressure is required, so much so that my wife cannot brake hard enough on even wet pavement to bring the ABS into play.
http://www.2carpros.com/forum/next-vt174442.html
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My T&C had an engine rebuilt at 75k miles (5k over the drivetrain warranty!), and the radiator cracked and left me stranded far from home. Chrysler dealers are horrible across the board, the 3 different dealers I dealt with were some combination of dishonest and incompetent, or both! We had a host of other small issues, trim pieces falling off, switches breaking... Just a lousy car. But even given all that, it was head and shoulders above the competition in 2002, in my opinion.
We almost went with the Routan, as I prefer dealing with VW dealers, but couldn't get over the fact that it's ultimately a Chrysler.
Even take your example. Of course they paid for everything, and it's not a major issue. Nevertheless a 3 mo. old car should not leave you stranded. I wish they sorted out their quality issues, I'd have bought another if I trusted them at all.
I have more problems with the Sienna system vs the T&C. Engaging rear drive, ALWAYS engaging rear drive, pre-emptively, results in too much driveline windup and/or tire scrubbing on perfectly dry, highly tractive, surfaces. This same system on the Escape and Mariner is encountering far too many PTO failures as result. The Mazda CX-7 also uses this same system but with water cooling of the PTO, as apparently does the new 2011 F/awd Explorer.
Yes, I said F/awd Explorer....!
Were I to ever own one of these new pre-emptive F/awd systems I would add a switch so that it could be disabled unless I have an expectation of the need.
*** Low speed acceleration and/or turning.
We haven't experienced any braking problems. This is our 4th Chrtsler minivan, the 3rd of which that has ABS, and all have worked as advertised. On our 3rd gen '96 T&C the brake lines corroded where they go under the driver's side of the vehicle and had to be replaced, but that was because of the after-market running boards that deflected road salt onto them. Otherwise, the only issue was that we were lucky to get more than 35k-40k miles out of the brake pads, but from what I've read that is normal for just about all minivans. I learned how to change the pads myself, so cost wasn't too bad.
I've also read of issues some folks have had with Chrysler dealers and can't help but wonder if this is a regional problem. We live in the Twin Cities area of Minnesota, a region known for the huge number of minivans sold, and dealer service seems to be pretty good. But, yeah, it has to be frustrating when you take your vehicle in to fix a problem and they give you the runaround.
My dealer experiences: I went to Chrysler in Manhattan and got a good price(on my 2002, way back when), I told them I would come in at the end of the next day to complete the transaction. When I came in, they wouldn't honor the price. I should have just left, but I had planned on driving the car home as a surprise. So I just agreed to a price a couple hundred higher. So ok, they made an extra $200 from me, but guaranteed that I would never set foot in there again, and I would dissuade anyone else from doing so.
The plastic switch cover on the power seats was missing. Westchester dealership refused to schedule a service appointment without an initial visit to determine the problem. They refused to let me just drop off the van to fix whenever they could get to it, it required two seperate visits, one to "diagnose" and then schedule a repair.
Later, I got the old "check engine" light, was told it was a faulty oxygen sensor, which was replaced. Turns out it was a vacuum leak, but they refused to refund the misdiagnosed repair, (which also wasn't warranty for some reason, nor was the repair). I never went to a Chrysler dealer after that. Just terrible.
All that said, I swear Edmunds, et. al., are reviewing different vehicles than what I'm driving. Our Sienna is fine, but if the badge was GM or Chrysler, you can bet all the reviews would be a lot more critical... For me, the sole selling point of the Sienna is Toyota reliability, I hope I'm not mistaken!
Also, subjectively speaking, I'm not a fan of the look of new T&Cs, I really liked the old ones...