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2011 Toyota Sienna

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Comments

  • nobonobo Member Posts: 305
    edited September 2010
    That 9.5 sec to 60 mph should make for some exciting merges on the freeway. :P

    I can imagine a 4 cyl Sienna being pushed by a Prius at an on ramp. ;)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    9.5 seconds is actually OK, but that's empty, with just the driver.

    Now imagine you have 8 people crammed in there, with luggage to add even more weight.

    0-60 in 14 seconds with a full load sounds a bit too exciting. :surprise:
  • randomeonerandomeone Member Posts: 20
    I just picked up my XLE a couple of days ago(no other options on it).

    We love the smooth and quiet ride, and the engine is really peppy, I find the Sienna surprisingly quick given its size. The steering wheel is really nice too. The car feels cavernous inside. Despite the numb steering, it handles fine for a minivan, and after a couple hundred miles, the steering feel(or lack thereof) is not a concern - it bothered us more on the test drive. As many have mentioned, the dashboard plastic and faux-wood are really horrible, it's hard to imagine it can't be easily improved.

    The radio sound is pretty lousy, I thought it'd be better, as I believe it's the same unit you'd have if you got the entertainment system. Built-in XM is nice, lots of presets, reception is good too, it's just the sound quality is lacking. The station tuning dial is really far from the driver. Even at 6' tall, it's a stretch for me( I know there's steering wheel controls, but they don't do everything) I was going to get a Garmin for Nav, but now I'm considering a full in-dash replacement like the high-end Pioneer or Kenwood units, along with an aftermarket DVD system. It'll still come in under half the price of the Toyota offerings.

    The climate control layout is about as unintuitive as possible. Of course you'll quickly get used to anything, but even so, it seems to have been done with no thought involved whatsoever.

    This is replacing an aging Town&Country. I just couldn't go with Mopar again after the problems I had with that vehicle. I could overlook some things, but every Chrysler dealer/service dept. I've had to deal with have been horrible. And the aging Odyssey is the worst minivan on the market, IMO.

    So on balance, really happy with the Sienna, except for the dash and radio issues mentioned above...
  • nobonobo Member Posts: 305
    Not that I had any doubts, but your summary of the 2011 Sienna reinforces the decision to purchase the 2010 Odyssey.
  • randomeonerandomeone Member Posts: 20
    Really? That's interesting. I really dislike the Odyssey, it wasn't even an option for me. What do you like about the Odyssey over the Sienna? I found Odyssey road noise to be irritating. If not for my negative experience with Chrysler quality, I'd have likely taken a VW Routan over the Odyssey as well.

    I found the Emunds review to be spot on: "An abundance of hard plastics serve to cheapen the experience, an excessive amount of buttons overcomplicate even the simplest of tasks, and iPod integration is notably absent. On higher trim levels, even the leather upholstery is decidedly downmarket."

    Somehow they manage to conclude "it's easy to see why the Honda Odyssey remains our top pick for a minivan."

    In any case, the Odyssey is obviously competent, but to me the Sienna is much nicer all around, despite my complaints.

    The radio complaints are being addressed. Depending on whether I replace the the Sienna's speakers or not, I'm going to spend $1800-$2500 for in-dash navigation w/Bluetooth, 11" screen (diagonal, not that ridiculous 11" wide dual-screen Toyota offers), and the higher price would include new Pioneer speakers all around. I paid $30155 + tax for an XLE, so I'll be around $32k with the after-market stuff.

    I was tempted to wait for the new Odyssey, but I think they'll be going for closer to sticker when they're new, and I have to have a new minivan for ski season.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I put a 12" 4x3 DVD player in mine, you gotta beat my record. ;)
  • delthekingdeltheking Member Posts: 1,152
    edited September 2010
    Juice Ateix,
    Have a question for you. Where do you buy/install these quality aftermarket dvd players or in dash navigation systems? I know as a chain Best Buy does them-- but guys working over there are just kids whom I dont trust and they can mess up the costly electronics. Impossible for them to know the electrical lay outs in the latest complicated cars and that too for every make?
    So , do you suggest any place for these? Thanks. :shades:

    And I keep repeating this -- But boy ,what`s up with those plastic interiors in the '11 Sienna? Feels Dodge/Chrysler like. Personally I think it`s a backward step from the previous gen. What were they thinking really with those horrible cheap plastic interiors? :confuse:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited September 2010
    Unfortunately, I installed mine at Circuit City, and we all know what happened to them.

    Here's what I did, though. Sneak around back of any installer, and ask if they mind showing you around. Usually they're not supposed to, but the guy who installed mine was friendly and gave me a quick tour of his shop - which was impeccable. Clean and well equipped.

    I asked what the install would entail - and his answer proved to me that he was familiar with the Sienna (power is there for the factory DVD, but they run wiring to the door switch). He was right, too. He also knew the products - the in-store display was beige, but he told me the box contained both gray and beige.

    Sure enough, the gray matched my interior nicely.

    So see if you can meet the actual installer, whether it's at Best Buy or not.
  • randomeonerandomeone Member Posts: 20
    Nice! Mine is being installed today, I'm getting a 10.8" or something like that.

    I went with the Pioneer Z120BT, it's what the guy who owns the shop has in his car, though he's a licensed Pioneer, Kenwood and Alpine installer. They're all really nice systems. The Pioneer has really nice iPod/iPhone integration, which is a nice plus.

    As for where to install - most of these dedicated auto sound and security shops really know what they're doing. I had a similar install in my Town & Country, and it was great. I found my installer from both the Kenwood and Pioneer websites, they list their authorized installers, there were a handful within a few miles of where I live. Lots of this stuff can be a DIY install if you're handy and have a couple of hours. If not for the overhead screen, I'd do it myself. There's no "trim kit" for the 2011 Sienna yet, but there's a couple of guys (Metra for instance) that will have them soon. In the meantime, my installer is fabricating one, I'll report on how good it looks, he's going to put in the trim kit as soon as it's available. The aftermarket head units are better than 99% of factory radios, those things are really lousy for the most part. I thought the Toyota split screen is a useless gimmick, and the picture size is really small since the screen is so small in the vertical dimension.

    I'm also having an inverter installed (300W 120v) and the steering wheel controls will work, and all-in, I'm spending about $2k, I'll post that total when I pick it up as well.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sounds good.

    Do you have the JBL sound?

    IIRC when I went shopping for a GPS head unit I found the LE model was supposedly not compatible if it lacked the JBL package.

    I ended up with a portable Garmin 1490T, and I'm happy and spent 1/4th the price.
  • randomeonerandomeone Member Posts: 20
    No JBL for me, that's only in the Limited. I don't know if it's an option on the XLE, but I got my XLE pretty much base. There's 3 different configurations on the Siennas, the LE can have a 4 or 6 speaker system. The XLE has the 6 speaker, and the Limited has the fancy JBL 10 speaker system.

    I think the LE and XLE 6 speaker systems are the same, though I'm not sure. In any case, there wasn't any issue installing any of the double-din navigation systems, and the Pioneer setup is pretty nice. I played with it a few minutes last night, the sound is much better, controls are not all that intuitive, but with so many options/functions, it's hard to make it very simple.

    Garmins are great, but I've had two stolen. I think they're the best nav units, hands down. The Kenwoods use Garmin nav.

    What rear entertainment screen did you install. Mine is a NESA, and it isn't all that good - I may have it changed out.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited September 2010
    Clarion.

    To be honest nothing special about it minus the large size - 4x3 screen format (not widescreen) and regular def, no HD.

    Having one is priceless, though. The kids never complain on trips. For us it's silent until we hear occasional giggles, so cute. They complain if we arrive before the movie finishes!
  • danhoustondanhouston Member Posts: 20
    Funny thing is sales are much higher. I guess people like the backup cam and 3-zone climate control. Those highly visible features outweigh the lack of a soft-touch dash, I guess.

    sienna sales should taper off when the 2011 honda odyssee comes out some time next year.

    some people got overexcited about the newly / redesigned model. first yr. redesigned production is the least reliable; so imo, it's better to wait until its 2nd yr.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Maybe not - did you see Honda's pricing?

    If you want a 6 speed automatic, the price is in the $40s. :surprise:
  • tifightertifighter Member Posts: 3,604
    Yeah, with MSRP for the Ody EX in the $31k range, it seems that some people are getting base Sienna XLEs over in the prices paid forums around the same price. And you know there won't be much dealing on the Ody for awhile.

    23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd

  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I wonder if the new Nissan Quest being introduced at the LA auto show will be competitive this time around?
  • tifightertifighter Member Posts: 3,604
    I saw the JDM Elgrand when I was in Japan this summer and liked what I saw; hard to know how much of that will get ported to the Quest. Lots of kitted out vans over there with bodykits, spoilers, big wheels, etc. Almost always white or black with dark tints.

    Strangely, the Sienna SE is the closest looking thing in the US to what I saw in Japan, but of course, they don't sell the Sienna there.

    23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd

  • delthekingdeltheking Member Posts: 1,152
    edited September 2010
    Honda messed up the Odyssey design big time. It really is damn ugly. All recent Honda / Acura exteriors have been awful. The Pilot,Accord Crosstour-- the Ody continues that trend.
    But the interior is totally different. The Ody looks to have much better interior with high quality materials and soft high quality plastic unlike Sienna. :shades:

    So dont know how this will play out. If Ody`s exterior was better---it would have been a home run. Also I think folks will pay the premium for the Ody. Infact more than 70% sales for the 05-10 model were the EX-L trim and above unlike the Sienna which has a majority of LE sales which are much less profitable. ;)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The interior indeed looks nicer - but I'll reserve final judgement until I can get inside one of them and feel it.

    The new Sienna's interior looks good, but touch it and that impression goes away. Surfaces that used to be soft/padded are now hard.

    I agree that Honda may be going for the high-end of the price scale, and that could work well for them.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    How did this one fall so far behind the 2011 Honda Ody is fuel economy?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited September 2010
    I'd ask the opposite question - how did Honda squeeze so many MPGs from the Ody?

    Remember, though, only the high-end models get the 6 speed automatic and that 28mpg. They combine the tall 6th gear plus cylinder deactivation, but you have to spend more then $40 grand to get it.

    Spending $40k plus to save 2mpg makes little financial sense.

    Toyota gives you a V6/6 speed for prices in the $20s.

    A similarly price Ody isn't really far ahead of a Sienna, because Honda still uses a 5 speed automatic on the affordable models.
  • samnoesamnoe Member Posts: 731
    Wow, you are reading my mind.... I think the exact same, that the Odyssey has messed up their exterior design, just ugly. I can't understand why they (Honda / Acura) keep messing up one vehicle after another. I mean, don't they see and read all the negative comments all over? Of course they wanna be "different", but in such a bad way?

    And I admit that the interior is much better, but still far from perfect (design-wise, not quality). But I won't discuss it here, this is a Sienna forum, not an Odyssey.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    The Sienna is still several mpg lower than the base Ody and they are both brand new products. The 2011 regular Highlander lost 1 mpg for no apparent reason. Toyota used to be a leader in fuel economy, but now in the neighborhood seems to be good enough. Its not that a few mpg is that huge of an annual cost issue, but you begin to wonder what else is just good enough in the product? Meanwhile Hyundai seems to be working hard to get their new models to have class leading fuel economy. Toyota needs to get their head back in the game.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Good point. The buff magazines thrash them so it probably gives you worst case. I imagine Edmunds or cars.com gives a more typical average driver result. I think everyone plays around with EPA specs. I've always heard that the reason a lot of Asian cars including some Toyota's have short seat bottoms is to exaggerate the driver's legroom figure.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited September 2010
    Automakers will always "cheat" like that. Subaru did that with the rear seat of the original Forester (short seat bottom to create the illusion of leg room).

    Driven hard, the Sienna was significantly more efficient, and that matters to me because vans are NOT for light duty, it's all about carrying people and cargo, and lots of it!

    Hey, give me one, and I'll coast down from Pikes Peak and get the trip computer to read 99mpg (the maximum). Do I get a bonus if I win? LOL
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited September 2010
    The Sienna is still several mpg lower than the base Ody and they are both brand new products

    berri: I looked it up, and I'm afraid that's a myth.

    EPA combined for the Sienna V6 is 20mpg, and for the Ody LX, EX, and EX-L it's 21mpg. That's just a single mpg difference.

    The Touring gets the 6 speed auto, but it also carries a starting price of $41,535.

    The grand majority of Odysseys will be LX and EX, so it's fair to say Honda only really has a single MPG over the Sienna on the EPA test.

    So basically you choose - 18 more horsepower, or 1mpg. That's a tough call, actually. I'm all for high-mileage, but I haul heavy loads so give me all the horsepower I can get. Honestly? For a van? 18hp > 1mpg.

    Now let's see what real-world tests can find.

    When you compare the Ody Touring to a Sienna Limited in the $40k plus arena, the difference is 2mpg, and that might trump the 18hp in my book. Thing is, if you can afford a $40,000 plus minivan, most people probably want the 18hp more than you want to save a couple of bucks a week on fuel.

    I'm an oddball, not to mention I would not be shopping in the $40k price range for either of these. That's too much.

    Trade-offs, I suppose. But not a clear choice at all, IMHO.
  • tifightertifighter Member Posts: 3,604
    Good analysis, Juice.

    I think everyone sees that EPA highway number and assumes thats it. But it doesn't reflect real world driving for many unless it's strictly used as a road trip car. Combined seems to be a more meaningful comparison.

    23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    FWIW, before we bought a Sienna we visited some friends in Tucson. They let me drive their Odyssey EX-L.

    Funny thing was - the ECO light almost never went on. Only when you were coasting to a red light, and I know my Sienna does that anyway.

    The Sienna cuts fuel flow, but doesn't seal up 3 cylinders like the Ody.

    The new Ody is supposed to have a better VCM system and I think now ALL models get it, it was EX-L and up only before.

    Other factors? Gearing. In the old Ody, the models with VCM had shorter gearing. So you get better mileage when VCM is active and using only half the cylinders, but the rest of the time they actually rev higher than the non-VCM Ody did, consuming more fuel, ironically.

    I guess if I were in the market, I'd be looking at the transmissions and gearing. Remember - Toyota makes a 6 speed auto standard, with Honda you gotta spend over $40 big ones, else it's a 5 speed.
  • samnoesamnoe Member Posts: 731
    I finally drove a 2011 Sienna LE for several hours (over 4). I am very disappointed with the handling. It is much worse than the 2009 that I drive almost weekly. Body lean is horrible. Also the steering wheel is way too thick.

    But the ride is really smooth and quiet.

    As of quality, I am not much of an expert, and I don't understand what's wrong. The appearance of the interior is nice & elegant, except for a few minor drawbacks, but can anyone explain me how exactly you measure quality? What areas are supposed to be "soft" and feels "hard"? I would like to try it and compare it by myself. Thanks.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It is very subjective, so it's hard to quantify.

    Try this - touch the old dash, it had some padding and little give. The new one is hard to the touch (FWIW it looks OK, feels hard).

    Better yet, pop open the new glove box. Very plasticky.

    Touch the door panels, the ceiling material, the doors to storage compartments, etc.

    I was in a dealership recently and they had the old, outgoing Scion tC right next to a new Sienna, and the overall feel in there was slightly more upscale, with rubberized materials in some places. The Camry also had a padded dash, and some nicer touches. Venza also, it's nicer than a Highlander if you compare them back-to-back.

    The RAV4 and new Sienna don't have the same quality of materials that even Toyota's other cars (Camry, Venza) have.

    Tundra has hard plastics all around despite the high price, though that may be OK given the duties it's expected to perform.

    My conclusion was this - don't generalize, even within the same brand, material feel and quality varies greatly, and not just according to price!
  • anzhu8888anzhu8888 Member Posts: 2
    Fellow visitors to this website: Where can I purchase a pair of fog lamps for 2011 Toyota Sienna LE? I checked with the dealer from whom I purchased the vehicle, but was told the lamps were only available to higher trims. They even declined to install aftermarket ones for me. I also called Toyota customer relations toll free number, but the results were just as disappointing. As I regard fog lights primarily as a safety device, I think it should be made available to people who can afford it, rather than bundle it with luxury items such as leather and video (i.e., hold it hostage for ransom). Any advice? Thanks! ---a.z.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    "..primarily as a safety device.."

    How so..?

    The only logical and/or "legal" use of fog lights is during the daylight hours in actual foggy conditions. Most states REQUIRE that the main beams be used/on during the hours 30 minutes after sunset until 30 minutes prior to sunrise. Obviously fog lights will have little effect at illumination when "over-shadowed" by the main beams.

    Insofar as a "DRL" effect fog light beam patterns are intentionally low and wide so "distance", oncoming driver "notice" is ineffective.

    Then there is the issue of the fact that the close in fog light low and wide beam pattern is detrimental to your own forward night distance vision.
  • fawltytowers44fawltytowers44 Member Posts: 58
    Quality is, in part, a matter of taste and so, very subjective. For me the feeling of getting into a 2010 Limited compared to that of a 2011 Limited is far nicer and gratifying. The feel and nuance of the materials in the 2010 is much more comforting and friendly. I feel at home in the 2010, I feel like a visitor in the 2011.
  • anzhu8888anzhu8888 Member Posts: 2
    According to online resources and personal experiences, fog lights do help one see better in some situations, especially the edge of the road when the painted line is fading or nonexistent. To reduce the blinding effect, one needs to exercise good judgment and turn on the fog lights only when necessary and when the dazzling effect is minimized (e.g., driving in thick fog or rain at night on a mountain road when there is little traffic). When the road is already luminated by on-coming traffic, there is usually little need for fog lights. But just like air bags, seldom used device doesn't mean not useful at all.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    I didn't say not usefull at all only that "usefullness" is limited to daylight hours.

    And only then if you happen to have the ability to turn on the fog lights without the mains being on also. Most asian, and some US, origin cars musy be modified for that ability.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I don't really find the Venza interior all that great or better than the Sienna. I think hard plastics are just one of the ways the automakers are holding price jumps down. I saw a 2011 Edge. Its interior seems nicer, but I noticed hard plastics on it too. I think the major flaw on Toyota interiors is seat construction. Many of them just don't seem all that comfortable on long drives, leather or cloth. They tend to lack thigh support. But all vehicles have their weaknesses and flaws. Honda's tend to be annoyingly noisy on the Interstate. Hyundai's seem to lack something compared to the Japanese cars on the road, although I haven't driven the 2011, so that may have changed. Just my personal observations and opinion though.
  • samnoesamnoe Member Posts: 731
    While driving the Sienna, and actually LOVED the small LCD screen with good info, nicely displaying time, outside temperature, and distance to empty (why no date and day of week?) - I came across a very annoying thing -- whenever a passenger is sitting in front passenger seat, an orange/yellow ("warning") color indicator pops on the screen "Passenger airbag ON".

    Now, thanks for the message! It's probably important to know! (is it?) but why does it need to show it the entire time? For so many hours? Every time I glanced on the screen, I momentarily thought that some caution message is displayed wanting to inform me something "really" important.

    This was very annoying. In my Honda, it's the opposite, you'll never see any message about passenger airbag, UNLESS a young child or package is on the seat, and the sensors feels that the airbag should NOT be used, only then it will display "AIRBAG OFF" light. Now that's much better.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I don't really find the Venza interior all that great or better than the Sienna

    I wouldn't call it great, but I did notice a few things that were a bit nicer than similar things in the Sienna. A few soft-touch materials.
  • nobonobo Member Posts: 305
    That would be very annoying to me.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Isn't it truly amazing what a small piece of black electrical tape can accomplish..??
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That's funny - a lot of post-ODBII Miata owners use that trick when they tune their engines.
  • vikmahajvikmahaj Member Posts: 7
    Hello all,

    I bought a Sienna XLE minivan with navigation and entertainment system in August 2011. I have run into problems with the microphone couple of times :

    1. first time, i pressed sos system to enable it and it took couple of hours to establish the link. during that time, my microphone and speakers were disabled.
    As soon as the SOS light turned green, everything went back to normal.

    2. Now SOS light is permanently showing red meaning it is not active and microphone is picking up my our voices very low. i have played around with lot of settings already but nothing is working.

    Any suggestions/ or has anybody run into this problem ?

    It may be that microphone has gone bad or sos system is malfunctioning causing problems to microphone.
  • tsu670tsu670 Member Posts: 293
    edited October 2010
    Hi all. I'm the originator of this thread (2011 Sienna). Some of you may recall that my wife and I decided against the new '11 Sienna Limited in favor of a new 2010 Chrysler Town & Country Limited.  We have owned it for 7 months and now it has just shy of 9,000 miles.

    To be honest, we did have one problem with it, one that was serious.  The engine died at a stoplight and would not restart. Had to have it towed to a nearby Chrysler dealer where the technician found a wire had grounded against the intake manifold and blew a fuse. To play it safe he replaced the entire wiring harness and wrapped additional conduit around the harness near the intake manifold.  That was when it was 3 1/2 months old and had 2,200 miles. Chrysler roadside assistance took care of the tow.

    Before then, and since then, it has performed marvelously.  On a recent 3,500 mile road trip the T&C averaged over 25.5 mpg, including a couple of tanks where the mileage was just shy of 29 mpg. (Mileage figures based on actual odometer and pump readings, not the on-board computer).  We were pleasantly surprised by how quiet and smooth riding it was.

    We have also been very impressed with the various features of the T&C, all standard on the Limited trim model.  We paid $31,200+T/L for a vehicle that comes standard with: HID headlights, fog lights, LED lights throughout the interior, power sliders and rear hatch, leather interior, power adjustable pedals, chrome 17" wheels, TPMS (tire pressure monitoring system), 6.5" screen for backup camera, MyGig system, a 4.0L V-6 with 6-speed automatic transmission, and Sto 'n Go (a feature we use a lot). The only option on our T&C Limited is the towing package; none of the fancy video or navigation options.

    Anyway, while at one point after the fuse blew in the engine I wondered if we should have gone ahead and payed the extra $9,000 for the Sienna Limited, I'm satisfied that the Town & Country Limited will be fine for us.

    At 5,000 miles I rotated the tires myself to check the condition of the brakes (a common complaint of '08 Chrysler minivans), and they looked like new.  On our recent trip we did a lot of driving in the mountain southwest, so it will be interesting to see the brake condition at 10,000 miles.  

    BTW, the owner's manual has a very clear description of the onboard EDR and exactly what information it collects.  It also says there are virtually thousands of computers that can read the Chrysler EDR.  No secrets like Toyota.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,148
    A reporter is interested in talking with owners of the Toyota Sienna who are also parents. If you are interested in commenting on your experience, please reply to pr@edmunds.com no later than Saturday, November 20, 2010 and include your city and state of residence, the model year of your vehicle and the age of your child/ren.

    Thanks for your consideration,
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    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
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  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    edited October 2010
    What is the braking like on your T&C..??

    Our 2000 braking is fine for light to moderate braking but with hard or heavy braking ''way" too much pedal pressure is required, so much so that my wife cannot brake hard enough on even wet pavement to bring the ABS into play.

    http://www.2carpros.com/forum/next-vt174442.html

    hhh
  • randomeonerandomeone Member Posts: 20
    tsu670, hope it keeps working out for you. We opted the other way - we had a 2002 T&C, traded it in for the 2011 Sienna. I've always thought(and still do) that the Chryslers are the best all around minivans EXCEPT for reliability. Their amenities, layout, controls, etc. are the best. I have a host of quibbles with various aspects of the Sienna. That said, we picked it because of Toyota's well deserved reputation of reliability/build quality.

    My T&C had an engine rebuilt at 75k miles (5k over the drivetrain warranty!), and the radiator cracked and left me stranded far from home. Chrysler dealers are horrible across the board, the 3 different dealers I dealt with were some combination of dishonest and incompetent, or both! We had a host of other small issues, trim pieces falling off, switches breaking... Just a lousy car. But even given all that, it was head and shoulders above the competition in 2002, in my opinion.

    We almost went with the Routan, as I prefer dealing with VW dealers, but couldn't get over the fact that it's ultimately a Chrysler.

    Even take your example. Of course they paid for everything, and it's not a major issue. Nevertheless a 3 mo. old car should not leave you stranded. I wish they sorted out their quality issues, I'd have bought another if I trusted them at all.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    While Chrysler has dropped the F/awd van model, the new Sienna now has a reasonably functional F/awd system. The Chrysler system was purely reactive, VC only "tightened" and coupled in rear drive AFTER a sustained period/level of front wheelspin/slip. The Sienna's new F/awd system, same as in the new Venza, is pre-emptive, automatically engaging the rear drive only when, at the exact times(***), front wheelspin/slip is most likely to become a problem.

    I have more problems with the Sienna system vs the T&C. Engaging rear drive, ALWAYS engaging rear drive, pre-emptively, results in too much driveline windup and/or tire scrubbing on perfectly dry, highly tractive, surfaces. This same system on the Escape and Mariner is encountering far too many PTO failures as result. The Mazda CX-7 also uses this same system but with water cooling of the PTO, as apparently does the new 2011 F/awd Explorer.

    Yes, I said F/awd Explorer....!

    Were I to ever own one of these new pre-emptive F/awd systems I would add a switch so that it could be disabled unless I have an expectation of the need.

    *** Low speed acceleration and/or turning.
  • tsu670tsu670 Member Posts: 293
    Hi Wwest. Sorry, but I wasn't able to open your linked article ("server not responding").

    We haven't experienced any braking problems. This is our 4th Chrtsler minivan, the 3rd of which that has ABS, and all have worked as advertised. On our 3rd gen '96 T&C the brake lines corroded where they go under the driver's side of the vehicle and had to be replaced, but that was because of the after-market running boards that deflected road salt onto them. Otherwise, the only issue was that we were lucky to get more than 35k-40k miles out of the brake pads, but from what I've read that is normal for just about all minivans. I learned how to change the pads myself, so cost wasn't too bad.
  • tsu670tsu670 Member Posts: 293
    Yes, Randomeone, Fiat has a huge problem on their hands to get folks to trust Chrysler again. I hope they do a better job than the previous two owners to improve quality.

    I've also read of issues some folks have had with Chrysler dealers and can't help but wonder if this is a regional problem. We live in the Twin Cities area of Minnesota, a region known for the huge number of minivans sold, and dealer service seems to be pretty good. But, yeah, it has to be frustrating when you take your vehicle in to fix a problem and they give you the runaround.
  • randomeonerandomeone Member Posts: 20
    It'll take quite a while to win back trust. And really, it'll require wholesale change, because you're not going to change the overall behavior of long-time dealerships.

    My dealer experiences: I went to Chrysler in Manhattan and got a good price(on my 2002, way back when), I told them I would come in at the end of the next day to complete the transaction. When I came in, they wouldn't honor the price. I should have just left, but I had planned on driving the car home as a surprise. So I just agreed to a price a couple hundred higher. So ok, they made an extra $200 from me, but guaranteed that I would never set foot in there again, and I would dissuade anyone else from doing so.
    The plastic switch cover on the power seats was missing. Westchester dealership refused to schedule a service appointment without an initial visit to determine the problem. They refused to let me just drop off the van to fix whenever they could get to it, it required two seperate visits, one to "diagnose" and then schedule a repair.

    Later, I got the old "check engine" light, was told it was a faulty oxygen sensor, which was replaced. Turns out it was a vacuum leak, but they refused to refund the misdiagnosed repair, (which also wasn't warranty for some reason, nor was the repair). I never went to a Chrysler dealer after that. Just terrible.

    All that said, I swear Edmunds, et. al., are reviewing different vehicles than what I'm driving. Our Sienna is fine, but if the badge was GM or Chrysler, you can bet all the reviews would be a lot more critical... For me, the sole selling point of the Sienna is Toyota reliability, I hope I'm not mistaken!
    Also, subjectively speaking, I'm not a fan of the look of new T&Cs, I really liked the old ones...
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