Jeep Wrangler

tsjay · September 2003

Glad the tests are OK, or at least we can assume the results are OK.

Hope Lucy continues to recover well from the surgery.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

kelleyo · September 2003

This is a pretty comprehensive guide to 4.0 power mods. From throttle bodies to stoker kits to turbo and superchargers this covers it well. It is not a competing page to this one...

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Lane/4886/jeepeng.html

jefferson1964 · September 2003

I was checking out the site and pricing wranglers. The prices quoted are thousands below anything i can touch here in dallas/fort worth for a new wrangler. They claim they can have it delivered to a local dealer for $300. If anyone has any information or experiences with this company any information is appreciated.

mac24 · September 2003

I've heard a lot of good and nothing bad about them. I suggest that you do a little searching to confirm it for yourself. Lots of people use a quote from them to bring their local dealer to their senses. I'd happily purchase from them if my local dealer started getting silly.

billy318ti · September 2003

Hey, getting an oil change tomorrow. Any types of oil is recommended, or just to put in what the manual says to put in. Thanks

mac24 · September 2003

The 4.0 is a very understressed engine and commonly runs to 150K to 250K with only routine maintenance. A synthetic oil like Mobil One won't do any harm, but is unlikely to improve on the performance of a quality dino oil unless you fit a turbo or move to Alaska.

Regular oil as recommended in the handbook is fine. Just remember to change it regularly.

bored · September 2003

I know all about the wonderful 4.0L Inline 6 engine, which some say is the best engine ever in production! But, exactly what do you mean by "understressed"? Thanks, Tech Man!

mac24 · September 2003

It starts with the basic design of the engine. An inline six is one of the smoothest engine layouts there is. Add to this the fact that it never has to turn very fast. It makes its power low down in the rev range so its reciprocating parts never have to accelerate and decelerate as quickly as its higher revving counterparts. Think of the loads generated by the mass of a piston as it has to stop at TDC and BDC on each stroke. Finally, compression is low and the burn is smooth.

It's an old, heavy, slow turning, long stroke, straight six with a lot of torque at low revs, making it the virtual antithesis of a modern, lightweight, high revving, short stroke, V6 which makes most of its power higher up the range.

Another indication is the is the way it can take substantial power increases without problems. Supercharging is not uncommon and neither are stroker conversions.

All the above, combined with its proven ability to run to high mileages with only regular service, indicate it's running nowhere the limits of its capabilities.

tsjay · September 2003

Thanks, Dude. I knew the good old 4.0 was a great engine and long-lived, but your technical break down of the reasons why was very enlightening. YOU DA MAN!

I guess it's overkill, but I DO like the Mobil 1 oil, and that's what Thelma Jane gets. I like it for its cold flow characteristics, and I DON'T use it for extended drain intervals. I still try to get the oil changed at 3000 miles, but I NEVER let it go past 4000 miles, even with the Mobil 1 oil.

I guess I have told this story before, but you guys know how old people are... they tell the same stories over and over. Anyway, I had a 94 Z28 Camaro that had the LT 1 5.7 liter engine. It made lifter noise fairly bad on cold starts. As soon as I switched to Mobil 1, the cold start noise was virtually gone, and the little noise it DID make stopped much sooner than before. It also increased my gas mileage by 5%, and that was not just on a tank or two of gas. I was in the habit of checking gas mileage EVERY time I filled up, so I had a long history of gas mileage for a basis of comparison. I consistently got 5% better gas mileage with the Mobil 1 oil in the crankcase.

Now a 5% gain in gas mileage is NOT going to begin to save you enough money to pay the extra cost of the synthetic oil, but if the gas mileage has gone up, it must mean that friction has gone down, and that's a GOOD thing.

I have a GM dealer near my workplace that changes the oil and filter, does the lubrication, and tops off fluids for $5.95, when you bring your own oil and filter. Can't beat that, so I don't bother doing it myself. They allow me to stand right there beside the guy doing the work, so I can see that it is being done properly. I would never allow someone else to change my oil, if I couldn't personally supervise up close and personal. And, they have recently started letting whichever of their regular technicians that is available do the work, not just some kid that does only oil changes.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

div2 · September 2003

I use Mobil 1 10W-30 and the proper Wix filter. I change both at 6000 mile intervals. Mobil states that you can increase your oil change intervals to the longest time/mileage recommended by the manufacturer when using Mobil 1, and that's exactly what I do on all of my vehicles. I think Mac is right about conventional oil; I just like the additional margin of protection that synthetic oils provide.

tsjay · September 2003

Well, buds, I wheeled with a couple guys today that had TJs with the Dana 35 rear end. One real fun thing I like to do is a steep climb with some large loose rocks and a few outcroppings of solid rock. Old Thelma Jane went right on up, bouncing along and spinning her tires at times as rocks were dislodged from under her tires.

Those guys with the Dana 35s tried it, and I think they could have made it, but with the 35s, you have to be very careful about situations where you spin a tire and then it grabs, and then it spins again, and then it grabs again. That grabbing all of a sudden after spinning puts a heck of a stress on the axle shafts, and these guys were afraid to go on, so they quit trying. One of the guys had 33" tires and the other guy had 35" tires. Neither had lockers.

That's kinda pushing things when ya run 35" tires on a dana 35 rear end, and a locker would make breakage even more likely. But, the locker is what helped Thelma Jane go on up that steep climb.

This is why I recommend so strongly that you get a dana 44!

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

2003wrangler · September 2003

JW is a great place to buy if you can't get a good deal from your local dealer. As mentioned above by Mac, first use their quote for leverage with your local dealer and see if it helps. The big question is do you have a trade? I tried to buy my 03 from JW, but they can't give you as much on a trade in as your local dealer will likely give you. After figuring in the trade, I came out $1,500 better by buying at my local dealer.

Another thing to consider is maintenance/warranty work. Although your local dealer will do the work for you, even if you didn't purchase from them, they may not be as quick to schedule you into the shop or as likely to give you a loaner vehicle if you didn't purchase from them.....

arizonajoe · September 2003

I'm thinking about going the minimalist route and getting a Wrangler Sport.

I remember when the new generation came out in 1996 (as a 1997 model). The reviews were all very positive. They all said how much more refined the ride was than in previous generations, noise had been reduced, and how the soft top was dramatically better than before.

Now I read Edmunds' review on the 2004 Wrangler, essentially the same vehicle that rolled out in 1996, and they complain quite a bit about the noise and how the soft top flaps around a lot at speed. I wonder if the expectations have changed over the last seven years or so.

Can some of you guys give me a better idea of what kind of noise we're talking about here? When you drive a soft top Wrangler, top deployed, can you hold a conversation? Can you hear the radio at normal volumes?

Does the hard top make a significant difference? Lastly, what is faster - deploying and removing the soft top or deploying and removing the hard top?

2003wrangler · September 2003

I would say the expectations have changed. Jeeps have never had insulation in the tub which allows some road noise to enter the cabin. Both the soft top and hard top are relatively quiet and allow you to have a conversation, listen to the radio and talk on a cell phone easily. The main thing, if you want to have the least amount of noise, is to get the full doors. The soft upper half of the half doors is not as quiet. I would recommend taking a couple different Jeeps for a test drive for yourself and see what you think. Jeeps are not luxury vehicles and are not as quiet as a sedan, but they are a heck of a lot more fun!

I would say the time to deploy the tops is about the same. The soft top is a little more involved, but the hard top requires a friend to help you or to have a hoist in your garage. I have the soft top only so I can just zip out the windows and put them in the back lower the top and have everything with me in case bad weather moves in over the course of the day. The soft top can be taken down in less than 5 minutes and put back up just a minute or 2 longer.

tsjay · September 2003

There was supposedly a huge improvement in the soft tops starting with the 01 models. They went to a four ply sail cloth fabric for the soft top, and it is reputed to be MUCH quieter than the old tops. Sorry, but I have no personal experience to share with ya on that, since I have the hard top only. I can tell ya that people who have experienced both the old top and the new top say that there is night and day difference in the amount of noise.

I have even heard some say that there is very little difference in noise level between the new soft top and the hard top. Probably the folks that say the new soft top is amost as quiet as the hard top have the full metal doors, so the plastic windows flopping around are not a problem for them. I think if I were getting the soft top, I would want the full metal doors.

Joe, you always have to take "reviews" with a grain of salt. For Pete's sake, they rate a Jeep by the same criteria that they use for cars. That's stupid! They say a Jeep is noisy and rides rough... well DUH! Compared to a car, that is true. People who buy Jeeps are well aware that a Jeep will be noisier and have a rougher ride than a car.

You asked about the ease of removal of the soft top vs the hard top. I can only talk about the hard top, since that's all I have.

To remove the hard top, you have to remove six torx bolts, unlatch two latches (above the windshield), disconnect the electrical connector for the rear wiper, and disconnect the line for the rear washer. All of that can be done in ten or fifteen minutes. Then, you need a second person to help you lift that hardtop off. It is very awkward to handle and very heavy (about 140 lbs). It is not something you would want to do every couple days. Once it's off, you would want to leave it off a while, and vice versa.

Joe, as long as a person understands the sacrifices that have to be made in going from a car or SUV or whatever to a Jeep, and as long as he is willing to make those sacrifices for the pure FUN of a Jeep, then that person will not be disappointed.

If you know my history from reading posts in here, you know that I was trading all the time, never satisfied for long with whatever I bought. Well, that is over with! I have had my Jeep almost three years, and I wouldn't even THINK of trading her! Three years may not sound like very long, but it's the longest I have had a vehicle since I bought a new 1974 Ford pickup and kept it ten years.

Do you know anyone that has a fairly new Jeep? Or can ya do some test driving? You need to see for yourself what a Jeep is all about, and then decide if it's really what you want.

Good luck.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

tsjay · September 2003

Not sure what part of AZ you live in, but aren't lots of areas out there way too hot for top down or topless Jeepin'? Don't ya want the top up and the A/C cranked up?

Where this is leading is that I was thinkin' you would probably want the soft top out there. During the heat of the day, you would want the top up and the A/C on, but when the sun gets low, it would be nice to drop the top, right?

Now you SURE don't want to have to remove the hard top and then put it back on every day, so the soft top would be your best bet. Are there times when you think you would want the hard top? If not, save your money and get the soft top only.

However, if you think you would have use for the hard top, the best time to buy one is with the Jeep to begin with. A new factory quality hard top can never be bought cheaper than with the Jeep to start with. You might find some used ones, but even they will cost about as much as the dual top option you could have gotten from the factory.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

mtngal · September 2003

I have a '98 hard top which has never been off (don't have any place to store it). When I test drove Wranglers back in '98 the soft top flapped quite a bit and was much noisier. There was no way my other half would consider one.

Recently we test drove an 03 soft top with half doors and I was really surprised. It didn't flap at all and it didn't seem much louder at all. Noise would not be a reason for choosing a hard top over a soft top.

I would, however, not want the half doors unless I got sliders to replace the windows. The zippered windows would drive me up a wall - imagine getting a shower if you are going through a drive-through in the rain, or using a card-key for a parking lot or other similar situations.

I do think that the hard top provides better insulation when it comes to heating and cooling. I do know that the hard top doesn't have a problem with 30 inches of snow in one night (something we had 2 years ago) so if you are up in the mountains, that's something to think about. And it seemed like the hard top I test drove the same day as the soft top cooled down faster than the soft top (Bakersfield in the summer is similar to some Arizona locations).

If I had a garage I'd want the dual top options. Since I don't have one, I'll always opt for the hard top, but that's just me and my situation. Others will prefer the soft top.

jefferson1964 · September 2003

My wife purchased the History Of The Jeep Brand video on Jeep.com for $3.00. Its a nice video to watch from the beginnings of jeep up to Year 2000. If any of ya'll want to see a well put together video of the jeep brand its worth $3.00....

tsjay · September 2003

How's the Jeep shopping going? Keep us up to date! Hope ya find one soon.

Might have to get one of those videos... sounds like a good deal.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

tsjay · September 2003

Jim:

Hey, have you found any possibilities for a Jeep purchase lately? I'm still keepin' a lookout for one for ya.

We had a good clean up day at Turkey Bay Saturday. What a gorgeous day it was! Man, I love the fall weather. Lookin' forward to the leaves gettin' their fall colors.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

mullins87 · September 2003

I've been watching ebay regularly, and bidding on a few. I've noticed the late YJ models and early TJ models are being bid fairly close to each other, but few seem to be making reserve price. I've set my limit at $5,500. That really limits me. But, I did a same kind of limit on my current truck. It took me a year to find what I wanted at the price I wanted, but it finally happened. In fact, I ended up getting a newer truck with fewer miles on it for less money. I have learned that if you wait patiently, and have the cash ready, then you can find a good deal.

I just looked at a '94 this morning on the way into the office. Pretty much what I am looking for - no options, no frills, but in decent shape. It has 31 x 10.50's on it now, but doesn't seem to have any sort of lift. There is no body damage or rust at all, except for the bottom of the tailgate. I've noticed this on several Jeeps. The drain holes appear to be plugged with the bottom rusted out. Is this common?

tsjay · September 2003

Good deal! You'll find one, I'm sure.

I can almost guarantee you that you are in range for a 97 or 98 TJ SE, if you will just keep searching. Heck, you might even find a Sport with high mileage on it for that price. For your purposes, strictly trail use, I would get the newest Jeep I could find in my price range, rather than worry about getting a six cylinder. No advantage to the six over the four on the trails, but BIG advantage for the TJ over the YJ on the trails (stock to stock, anyway).

Have not noticed the rusting of the tail gate that you asked about, Jim. Guess you are talking about the YJs?

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

erickpl · September 2003

Well, I've finally got the Canyons on my TJ!

Man what a difference between the stock SE wheels! I put the BFG 30x9.5's on and am happy with it. The A/T KO's are fairly quiet on the road and it handles SO much nicer. Now to find some non-road stuff to play on. heheh

I put on my new Bestop sailcloth replace-a-top too. The Jeep looks like a totally different truck.

As for the comparison between tops, the old top had one layer (you could see sunshine through it). The new top has the multi-layer setup that Tom mentioned. It IS much quieter. You can carry on a conversation quite easily now, whereas the old top pretty much required earplugs. I also have the soft halfdoors. Even they are quieter than the originals. I would have preferred sliders, like mtngal mentioned, but I had to wait on that for the time being. Maybe later...

I am considering finding a hard top and the full steel doors, but I know that'll be quite pricey. I'm assuming I won't find the right color, so they'd have to be painted.

I have pictures of the 'new' Jeep at Webshots:

http://community.webshots.com/user/skimblz_

-Paul

nolid5 · September 2003

Looks real nice.
Big difference from when you bought it.
Just shows how easy it is to improve a Jeep.

tsjay · September 2003

WOW! That puppy looks NICE! You're doing a great job of upgrading that Jeep.

Now, it appears, however, that you have forgotten something. THOSE BUMPER CORNERS! They gotta go, Paul.

Seriously, they come off pretty easily without doing them any damage, so you can always put em back on, but you really oughta see what the Jeep looks like without them. Heck, if ya tear one of em up, I'll send you one of mine. You can have ALL of mine, if ya need em.

Now, a question... is that YOUR Jeep or your daughter's???

Sounds like what happened with Ross Allen. He started off being my daughter's doggy, but old Grandpa took over.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

erickpl · September 2003

Thanks for the compliments.

It is technically my daughter's car, since I sold my Honda Civic Si (which I gave to her) to pay for the TJ. But it is kinda my project car.

I use the my/her possessive pronouns interchangeably. I get to drive it when I want, as long as I ask her first and as long as she doesn't need it for school or work. She has priority on it.

I was looking at those bumper covers this weekend as was thinking the same thing. Do they just pop out? I'd like to pull them out, but my wife may not want me to. I may just do it and not tell anybody.

hehehe

My wife did say that if we moved to Colorado, I could get a Jeep... let's get packed!

If I was buying one for ME, I'd probably go with a Sport or a Rubi. But thinking about it, I could probably get the X, but upgrading to what I would want in it would come up to Sport range rather easily. So I would definitely get the dual tops (hard for winter months, soft rest of the time).

-Paul

nolid5 · September 2003

Good question, Tom.
I'm starting to wonder myself. :P

tsjay · September 2003

At one point you mentioned that you might even get a Jeep that is not street-worthy and just not even license it for road use.

Just thought I would point out something that probably is not in itself important enough to base your decision on, but could be a factor.

You know there are miles and miles of 300 and 400 series roads all over LBL. These roads are not maintained or only minimally maintained, and they require 4WD in some places. These roads are fun to explore sometimes, but your vehicle has to be licensed in order to legally drive on these roads. Big fine if they catch you on them with an unlicensed rig.

Since you live only 40 miles form Turkey Bay, it would seem to me to be better to just drive your Jeep over there rather than trailer it. You pull a camping trailer already, right? So, if you wanted to camp AND wheel, you would need to drive the Jeep over there, right? Maybe Momma could drive the Jeep while you drive the truck with the camper in tow???

Sorry, I'm sticking my nose into your business, ain't I?? Oh well, I just get carried away sometimes, especially when someone is getting a Jeep.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

tsjay · September 2003

Paul, those corner pieces just bolt on. If I remember correctly, they are torx screws, like so many other bolts on the Jeep. You might need some WD40 or PB Blaster to loosen those bolts (screws, whatever).

I ain't no biggie to take em off and see if you like the looks better without them. You can always put em back on.

Can't blame ya for taking such an active role in that Jeep, even if it is officially your daughter's.

Tom

Have you hugged your daughter's Jeep today?

mullins87 · September 2003

Those are all things I have considered. I know the roads in the LBL require a licensed and insured rig, KY law ya' know.

My wife absolutely refuses to learn to drive a stick, so having her drive it to the campground is out of the question. My truck is perfectly capable of handling the extra stresses and weight of pulling the Jeep behind the camper, however, I'm not sure if the camper is heavy enough to handle the Jeep. If a Jeep weighs 3,500 lbs, then I know the camper will at least double that weight. Of course, then I'll be getting mighty close to that 20,000 lbs GCWR!

Does anyone here know the rule for towing tandem with regards to how much more the lead trailer must weigh?

The rust has all been on YJ's. I haven't been able to physically inspect any TJ's yet.

mullins87 · September 2003

BTW Tom: You're not sticking your nose into my business, you're helping me to make a smart and well informed decision. If the roles were reversed and you were thinking about buying a motorcycle, I'd be doing the same thing to you!!

tsjay · September 2003

Glad you are taking it the way it was intended... just advice from a friend.

Man, I don't think I have ever seen a truck pulling a camping trailer AND another vehicle! That would be a traffic jam all by itself!

I don't doubt that your truck would be capable of the load, but, Good Lord, how would that "train" handle on the road?

If you went through a drive through at Mc Donalds, someone in the Jeep would just be placing their order while you are picking up your food.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

drosketer · September 2003

Wow, that ride is looking pretty sweet...

Didn't see any in the pics (unless I'm being blind), but if you're planning on taking it wheeling, you should get tow-hooks on there...

Andrew

tsjay · September 2003

Oh, you may already know this, but I just found out a day or two ago... the Dana 44 was not available from the factory in the YJs. Just another reason to go with a TJ, if you can.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

tsjay · September 2003

Think you must be talking about Paul's Jeep. Jim is still looking for one.

But, you are exactly right about the tow hooks. I didn't notice that Paul's Jeep didn't have them. Paul, those things are a MUST, if you are going to go offroad. The bumpers just are not strong enough to be used to pull a Jeep out of a "stuck," especially since a Jeep often has to be jerked out of a bad stuck, instead of just being pulled out with a steady pull.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

tsjay · September 2003

Couldn't see going to work, so I called in.

Got that line from Marlon (bored7287). Thought it was pretty cool.

Thanks, Marlon.

I used my personal day, so at least I didn't lie about being sick. (Save that one for next time

)

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

drosketer · September 2003

You're absolutely right Tom, I meant Paul...
This is what happens when I'm coding and writing messages at the same time... I'd hate to think about what I may have accidentally included in the code!! ;-)

Andrew

twylie · September 2003

Jeep looks great!!! I like the black top much better than the Spice it previously had. Most people woudn't be able to tell it apart from the current model year. Have fun with it!

-twylie

mullins87 · September 2003

HeHeHe!! That would be quite a train. As long as the combined trailers don't go over 55' in length, in KY anyway, it is legal.

I am concerned about it on two fronts: One you've already mentioned. I've read lots of stories about this very topic - truck pulling a camper pulling a Jeep. Some use a flatbed trailer while others don't. It seems most setups without the flatbed work just fine, but I've read a few where the Jeep really did some serious fishtailing behind the camper. The other concern is the campers frame rails being heavy enough to literally pull the Jeep. It has 8 inch full length rails under it. Just by WAG'ing it, the rails look strong enough. But I'd rather not WAG it. I need to talk to someone that would know. If I don't license it, then add another 1,000 lbs to the equation for the flatbed trailer.

I am definitely taking my time with this decision. Last night Janna told me she wanted me to get a new bike instead, but didn't care if I got a Jeep. I think she got to thinking about her Saturdays being free if the boys and I are out in the Jeep.

tsjay · September 2003

OK, for the newbie Jeepers who want to get started wheelin' their Jeeps, here's the bare minimum requirements.

1. Tow hooks or D-rings front and back.

If you wheel, you are gonna get stuck. If you never get stuck, you just ain't being adventurous enough. We always think of mud when we think about geting stuck, and that is most often the case, but you might get high centered on something and need a tug. I'm sure there are other situations too. I guess one thing could be that you break down on the trail and need to be towed out. The Jeep bumpers are nowhere near strong enough to use to tow the Jeep. You need tow hooks that are bolted THROUGH the bumper (not TO the bumper) and into the frame. Since you never know which direction the pull will need to come from, front or back, you need tow points on both ends. Be sure and get tow hooks rated for at least three times the vehicle weight, since there might be times when you need to be jerked out of a hole, and you need something heavy enough to take the shock load. Be sure the bolts that are used to secure the hooks are grade 8. The factory hooks are fine, but be careful about after market hooks... make sure they are heavy enough and the bolts are strong enough. All of this applies to the D-rings also, if that's the way you decide to go.

2. Tow strap

Yeah, you can HOPE that someone else in the group has one, but proper ediquette is to have your own, and if you get stuck, to use your own. Don't expect someone else to get their tow strap all nasty in the mud when YOU are the one that is stuck. Guess who gets to wade in the mud to hook up the strap???

DO NOT get the tow straps that have the metal hooks on the ends. They are not even allowed by most Jeep clubs. Those metal hooks can be deadly if the strap breaks or slips off during a pull. Get the straps that have loops on the ends.

Get either two or three inch straps with at least 20,000 lbs capacity. Here again, the "shock load" factor comes into play. As far as length, 20' to 25' ought to do the job. I have a 25' strap with 20K lbs capacity.. got mine from autobarn.com for $36.95 plus shipping.

These things are also called recovery straps.

CB Radio

Now for Pete's sake, let's be getting a CB radio for our wheelin', peeps! I have to admit that I did not have one the first couple times I wheeled, but I am ashamed of myself for that. The second time out, I hooked up with some super nice folks from the Central Illinois Jeep Club, and one of those guys was kind enough to get out of his Jeep and walk back to mine to relay messages. That was way above and beyond the call of duty, and it embarasses me that he had to do that for me.

All you need is the cheapest CB you can find, and I got mine at Walmart for about $40.00. Get a cheap antenna and some coax, and you are in business. I'm sure you can get everything you need for well under $100.

When I was talking about tow hooks and tow straps, I mentioned mud. Well, you guys know that I avoid mud whenever possible, but sometimes you just have to go through it on your way to some cool place you want to go.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

bored · September 2003

Bad Tom!

I didn't make that joke, some genius did, and I just passed it along.

You really should have just gone into work, Tom. :-)

erickpl-Good job on your---err---your daughter's Jeep! It almost looks new, except for those clearly faded flares. I'm sure the others have tips on how to get the shine, and darknesss back, but I do know this...don't use Armor All! I don't even use the stuff on tires!

Thanks, Mac, you really made a good explanation about the 4.0L engine. I just now need to know whether a 2.5L or a 4.0L higher mileage engine will last 2 years, with daily driving (10+ miles), since all the Jeeps that I have the patience to save money for are high-mileage.

The Wrangler family is just so nice, the rest of the Jeepers seem to always hold some sort of anger against others. Thanks, everyone.

erickpl · September 2003

Thanks for the compliments. The flares and step up are next I think. I'm not sure if I'll go OEM flares or get some Bestop ones. Any suggestions?

-Paul

drosketer · September 2003

Tom, is the stock rear tow hook suitable for towing... I think I had read some griping about it (or that it's attached with insufficient hardware)?

Thanks,
Andrew

tsjay · September 2003

Never heard any complaint about the rear factory tow hook. I know I have used mine, but I can't remember if I was the tower or the towee.

Probably have used it both ways. Maybe someone didn't attach theirs correctly, if they added it later. I didn't order tow hooks on Thelma Jane, cause I never figured I would be going off road. (Ain't that a kick in the head?)

I went through a dealer and got the factory hooks when I knew I was going to start wheelin. I think I might have broken the rule and went one time without hooks, though. I believe it was just before my second excursion that I got the hooks and put them on. The rear hook bolts into the frame, so I don't know why anyone would think they are not adequate. (The factory only puts one hook on the back, and it goes on the drivers side).

There are cheaper ways to go and still get a good tow hook rather than going with the factory hooks, but I wanted them to look good and wanted them to fit without having to fool around with them.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

tsjay · September 2003

Have never tried it, but it supposedly works great and lasts a while... use a heat gun on the flares.

I would be careful about how much heat and how long you expose a spot to that heat, but I have heard from several different sources that it works like a charm.

Just go easy at first and get a feel for how much heat it takes and how long the exposure needs to be.

I have heard about some various commercial liquid products that work for a while, but I don't think I have heard of any that last very long.

I have also heard that if you get the right type of paint that you can make em look good and the job will last a good while. Don't remember what type of paint it was right now.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

drosketer · September 2003

Thanks. I wasn't sure... and hadn't had a chance to look at one up close anytime recently. When I do finally get that rubi it'll be that much less to think and worry about! Let's just say that I am looking forward to that day!

Andrew

twylie · September 2003

Krylon Fusion - bonds to plastic. If you can find it in a satin finish (not glossy) it might be worth a try on really faded flares.

I'd try a few coats of 303 first and if that doesn't work, maybe test a spot with Back to Black. I think the B2B may be a silicone based product so use at your own risk

Krylon link:
http://www.krylon.com/product/gp_product_detail.asp?sgID=GP07

I like the factory flare look over the aftermarket flares. JMO.

-twylie

twylie · September 2003

email me if you want my factory rear tow hook. I pulled it off when I added a hitch. Sitting in the basement somewhere collecting dust. You'll need to reuse one of the factory bolts and I'll send you the other one that I removed. For front hooks, some 12k lb ones from the auto parts store are good. Pick up some grade 5 or grade 8 bolts to secure them and you're all set for getting stuck.

I picked up a 20ft 25k tow strap as a backup from Home Depot for $30.

-twylie

mac24 · September 2003

From the DC site, here's a couple of pics of the '04 export Rubicons. Take note of the flares......think TombRaider/Bushwacker.

tsjay · September 2003

Some situations call for a short tow strap. Sometimes there just isn't much room between the vehicle being towed and the one doing the towing.

When I got my winch, I got an accessory kit with it, and in the kit is a "tree saver" strap. This will serve as my short strap. A tree saver strap is the same thing as a tow strap, but it is much shorter and is intended to go around a tree that you are using as an anchor point when using your winch.

Good Jeepers believe in "treading lightly," and they don't damage a tree by putting a wire rope around it when winching.

I don't know where you would get a short tow strap other than in a winch accessory kit. I'm sure they are available somewhere.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

Jeep Wrangler

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