Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
2010 Chevrolet Equinox Transmission Fix
I thought the fix to the tranny problems I've described in other threads deserved its own thread.
Today I spent 3.5 hours with the engineer in charge of fuel effeciency for the new Equinox. GM sent him down from Detroit (to Lexington, KY - about a 6 hr. drive) specifically to drive with us. Very nice and very smart. Without typing a novel, I'll tell you what happened.
It turns out to be a tranny programming issue as the dealers thought. The person who actually writes the tranny program for the Nox works under the engineer who came down. Everything I have described in threads on this board as symptoms it did, which was good. The driving characteristics were rather harsh to him compared to other Noxs he has driven, which are many. He was, however, able to explain why every symptom existed except for one (but the solution fixed that, explained below). He did say that although uniformity in parts and software is the goal, small differences happen during the manufacturing process (and GM largely buys parts from suppliers and doesn't make them themselves) that can make one vehicle behave different from another. This might be why some on this board say theirs are very symptomatic, and some say they don't even notice the tranny behavior described.
Without going into specifics, all the symptoms were related to things designed to conserve fuel. Long story short, he put a new tranny program into my vehicle that influences the operation of various transmission and fuel conserving features/components. It actually was just officially approved yesterday, and will begin to be put into new Equinox production vehicles possibly as early as Tuesday (Sept. 22). My vehicle is the first one with this new program that is not a GM corporate vehicle, and only a few of those have it.
The difference is amazing! It drives like a different vehicle. There are still a few small things I'm a little bothered by, I understand why they are the way they are and don't have a problem with them. Although the symptoms we experienced while driving the vehicle were either new to him or more harsh than he's experienced before (i.e.: they didn't specifically make this new program to solve the symptoms I've described), this new program makes a world of difference and solves most all of the problems I've described.
For those thinking about not buying the Nox because of the tranny issues described - don't be hesitant any longer. I no longer discourage people from buying this vehicle because of transmission behavior. If GM is full of people like this guy they will do great so long as people put their biases aside and actually give the vehicles a chance.
For those of you experiencing the tranny symptoms described on this thread and who already purchased one, email me (wallyuwl@yahoo.com) and I'll tell you how I understand to get the fix. They may not release it as a full-blown bulletin (there are what I consider good reasons for that based on what this engineer said), so it might not be obvious to your dealer that there is a fix out there, but they should be able to get and do the fix (though I'm not sure on the timeline when the fix will be available to dealers - I would'nt think it would be too long if the new program is going into newly built vehicles possibly this coming week) with a little prodding. The fix is literally a 5 minute thing to actually perform. Also, they may tweak the tranny program a little based on today, but as of now there are no plans to do another tranny program modification on the 2010 vehicle. There are several improvements planned for 2011 model year Noxs, but those can't be loaded on to 2010 vehicles (sort of technical why, he briefly explained that, too).
Also, it is a "learning" transmission, but it keeps "learning" throughout the life of the vehicle. So it isn't just the first 1000 miles or whatever that determine how the transmission behaves for the life of the vehicle. It actually readjusts every 150 shifts or so per gear. This will result in a harsh upshift every now and again (we've had two in two months - one while driving with him today, actually) as a result of a short-shift (he explained this in detail but I don't remember details), so just be aware of it.
Today I spent 3.5 hours with the engineer in charge of fuel effeciency for the new Equinox. GM sent him down from Detroit (to Lexington, KY - about a 6 hr. drive) specifically to drive with us. Very nice and very smart. Without typing a novel, I'll tell you what happened.
It turns out to be a tranny programming issue as the dealers thought. The person who actually writes the tranny program for the Nox works under the engineer who came down. Everything I have described in threads on this board as symptoms it did, which was good. The driving characteristics were rather harsh to him compared to other Noxs he has driven, which are many. He was, however, able to explain why every symptom existed except for one (but the solution fixed that, explained below). He did say that although uniformity in parts and software is the goal, small differences happen during the manufacturing process (and GM largely buys parts from suppliers and doesn't make them themselves) that can make one vehicle behave different from another. This might be why some on this board say theirs are very symptomatic, and some say they don't even notice the tranny behavior described.
Without going into specifics, all the symptoms were related to things designed to conserve fuel. Long story short, he put a new tranny program into my vehicle that influences the operation of various transmission and fuel conserving features/components. It actually was just officially approved yesterday, and will begin to be put into new Equinox production vehicles possibly as early as Tuesday (Sept. 22). My vehicle is the first one with this new program that is not a GM corporate vehicle, and only a few of those have it.
The difference is amazing! It drives like a different vehicle. There are still a few small things I'm a little bothered by, I understand why they are the way they are and don't have a problem with them. Although the symptoms we experienced while driving the vehicle were either new to him or more harsh than he's experienced before (i.e.: they didn't specifically make this new program to solve the symptoms I've described), this new program makes a world of difference and solves most all of the problems I've described.
For those thinking about not buying the Nox because of the tranny issues described - don't be hesitant any longer. I no longer discourage people from buying this vehicle because of transmission behavior. If GM is full of people like this guy they will do great so long as people put their biases aside and actually give the vehicles a chance.
For those of you experiencing the tranny symptoms described on this thread and who already purchased one, email me (wallyuwl@yahoo.com) and I'll tell you how I understand to get the fix. They may not release it as a full-blown bulletin (there are what I consider good reasons for that based on what this engineer said), so it might not be obvious to your dealer that there is a fix out there, but they should be able to get and do the fix (though I'm not sure on the timeline when the fix will be available to dealers - I would'nt think it would be too long if the new program is going into newly built vehicles possibly this coming week) with a little prodding. The fix is literally a 5 minute thing to actually perform. Also, they may tweak the tranny program a little based on today, but as of now there are no plans to do another tranny program modification on the 2010 vehicle. There are several improvements planned for 2011 model year Noxs, but those can't be loaded on to 2010 vehicles (sort of technical why, he briefly explained that, too).
Also, it is a "learning" transmission, but it keeps "learning" throughout the life of the vehicle. So it isn't just the first 1000 miles or whatever that determine how the transmission behaves for the life of the vehicle. It actually readjusts every 150 shifts or so per gear. This will result in a harsh upshift every now and again (we've had two in two months - one while driving with him today, actually) as a result of a short-shift (he explained this in detail but I don't remember details), so just be aware of it.
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Why would you start up a topic only to have people take it off line? Let's keep the discussion here so everyone will benefit.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Wonder if GM would be able to identify the transmissions affected by this.
Would you know the programming version number that is to be released. I work for a dealership group and I can have my contacts do some investigating to see when the patch is available to dealerships on SPS.
I don't kow the programming version number. I just know it is a new tranny calibration and was approved for distribution/release last Friday.
Since there aren't that many '10's out on the road right now, it would make sense to publish this as a SB and reprogram them as they are brought in for a service review.
I was sitting on the fence - I wanted to buy the 4cylinder engine but was afraid of all the transmission complaints.
I will visit my local GM dealer next week to test drive the 2010 Equinox.
I'm very interested in this because my dealer called to let me know about a transmission callibration update. Calibration bulletin #09271 issued on 10/8/2009.
This update is supposedly to improve transmission shift characteristics for downshift hesitation, delayed shifting, and shifting at the wrong time.
The way it was described to me was that they would take the info from my Nox's computer and upload it to GM's computer to get the correct update.
I guess I'll give it a shot. According to my dealer, "it's not for better gas mileage", which I could use, "but if it's shifting wrong, it's probably using more gas than it should "
I'm experiencing some, but not all, shift characteristics described in the bulletin, so I suppose I should try it.
Has anyone else had this update performed?
Thanks,
I'd bet that is the same cal as the one I received from the engineer who came down from Detroit about 3-4 weeks ago (as of this coming Sat. - don't remember if it was Sept. 19 or 26th he came down).
The one I got installed was only officially approved the day before he came down and probably took until now to get to the dealers. However, I do not know the exact calibration number he put in my vehicle. It is far better than the original cal., however, though still not ideal. He did say that they did not plan on doing any additional new cals for the 2010s, but after getting lots of data from my vehicle they may do yet another cal he said. So since it took several weeks I do sort of wonder if they did this and this new one you mention is because of that, or if it is the one I got.
I am going in to get the rear bumper adjusted (wasn't put on quite right) early next week and will see if they will check my calibration number.
In either case (if the cal is the one I have or an even more updated one) I'd get it. The driving experirence will be much improved in either case.
I’m impressed with the driving dynamics of the new flash. I no longer experience high drag when decelerating around 30 to 20MPH. I think the third gear TC lockup is no longer shuddering. Also I think the idle performance was tweaked, it’s a very smooth with ECO off, and smoother with ECO on (you can still feel just a slight shudder). I also think it cleared the learning memory, as it wanted to hold gears a little longer, rev a little higher than I was used to. I baby it and drive to get the best fuel economy, so it will take a little time for it calm down (Ha!). After only 50 miles I already see it adapting to my style.
They told me it would take about five minutes, but sometimes they've had to wait an hour to get GM's computer online.
I'll be glad to lose the drag when decelerating around 30 to 20MPH most of all, but it sounds like GM is really trying to tweak the performance.
Looking forward to my second first drive ;-)
My Nox only has two rattles that I need to get looked at. One is in the inside rear hatch door, sounds like a screw or clip that is loose inside the door panel. The other sounds like it is coming from under the passenger seat. I only hear it when going over bumps, so it’s kindda hard to narrow down what it is.
Like snawdjj, I see it reving a bit higher and I see on my service records, "Clearing DTC's will erase stored history data from all controllers and will reset the PCM I/M flags." That's exactly what it feels like. So it's like starting over - cool with me ;-) Dealer even washed it for me...nice.
Out of the 6 ID's for the ECM Controller, I had flashes performed for ID #2 and #6.
#2 went from number 12635385 to number 12637998 - New calibration with improvements to AC Compressor Anti-Slugging.
#6 went from number 12636340 to number 12637996 - Modified shift pattern for improved driveability. - Must also reprogram TCM with latest calibrations.
Out of the 4 ID's for the TCM Controller, I had flashes performed for #2 and #3
#2 went from number 24255400 to number 24256213 - TCC Coast Mode and On Mode improvements, Shift Quality Improvements.
#3 went from number 24255170 to number 24256215 - TCC Coast Mode and On Mode improvements, Shift Quality Improvements.
All for now, but keep the experiences coming so we all can compare notes.
I've been in Eco mode since the last post and I've been really standing on the gas to max out rpm's and it's shifting really smooth. If I'm going real slow, like over multiple speed bumps, I still get a little lag between 1st and 2nd, but it's absent during all other driving conditions.
Me likey
1. 12636334 - main operating system, replaces 12635812
2. 12637998 - new calibration with improvements to AC Compressor Anti-Slugging
3. 12635381 - incremental release RPR2.
4. 12635389 - same as above.
5. 12636342 - new calibration with diagnostic enhancements for DTC P219A
6. 12637996 - modified shift pattern for improved driveability. Must also reprogram TCM with latest calibrations.
7. 12633518 - New software.
8. 12634344 - new calibration for start of production.
Some notes - the #6 new cal is the same one I got from the engineer about a month back that I've talked about on here. It is the final tranny cal they plan for the 2010 Nox. It still "jack rabbits" or "lunges" a little downshifting from 5-4 and 4-3 in non-ECO mode. In ECO mode, however, things are pretty clean. All upshifts are fine IMO. I'd suggest driving in ECO mode in-town, and on the hwy for passing or if you are in heavy traffic then use regular mode since you won't be getting to a slow enough speed where these "lunges" will be felt anyway. For hwy cruising I'd use ECO mode for the lower RPM and better mileage.
I don't know which cal fixed this problem, but the new catalytic converter cal I mentioned previously is in this new set of cals. I no longer get the jitteriness when first driving when the vehicle is cold.
Things are pretty good now that they fixed these things. Hope this cal. info. helps some others. They still may release other new cals periodically, but they won't be for the tranny (as is my understanding).
You did get the TCM Controller Cals that go along with ECM #6, right?
I listed the TCM Cals (2&3) that are necessary in my last post, but the other two that are still at the factory specs as of August are:
TCM ID #1 - 24252872 - Operating System
TCM ID #4 - 24255172 - New Cals for RPR2 - Modified adapt properties to improve green drivability.
Now there's a complete list of controller ID's, online, for the 2010 Nox.
Thanks to my dealer for letting me know and to wallyuwl for putting up all the ECM's. It didn't dawn on me that all the production months may not have all the same Cals.
When I need an oil change (maybe not until over X-mas while in WI for the holidays) I'll also have them look for any new ECM or TCM updates. They are more competent up there, anyway.
It does seem they are updating cals like crazy on this vehicle. I know it is new, but geeze! Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like there are major revisions being done on this thing to the cals, even for a new model.
It sounds almost like the print out that I got, but with a printing problem. Like maybe the printer wasn't formatted for the size of the document or something. As a matter of fact, if your papers were printed vertically, I would guess that's what happened. My Controller page was printed horizontally with the word "Summary and my VIN at the top.
The page with the picture of the car and computer was the last page that stated "programming complete" and gave the warranty claim code number S1AB5. It also contained that line I wrote about Clearing DTC's will erase all stored history.
I think the 2 TCM Cals are, one for up shifting and one for down, but I'm guessing.
While I was driving up the fairly steep freeway to my moms today, I noticed that, while in cruise control @75mph in ECO mode, it wasn't downshifting like it used to do before the calibration. Very low revs in 6th and when I took it out of cruise control and slammed the gas, it downshifted and revved to almost 5k before shifting to 6th. It was a nice smooth burst of speed. It was at this time that I thought that this isn't some $60,000 Benz ML350, this is a $23, something Chevy and for what it is, it is really remarkable.
I don't look at these cals as major revisions, just tweaks that probably most people won't even need.
It's not a perfect vehicle in every way and may have had a few bugs at the starting gate, but it is a very well balanced piece of machinery that I have no remorse over purchasing.
And I'm the king of taking things back and complaining, so if you knew me that would mean something ;-)
Hopefully 10-20K miles down the road, I'll feel the same way :shades:
Btw, I see that you were the guy that probably got the engineers attention about this, so bravo to you
With the 5th and 6th gear thing, that is new with this new tranny cal. They made it less likely to downshift when accelerating (or pushing on the gas going up a hill even w/o acceleration), but the RPMs do increase while still in 6th for more power.
I am also pretty happy. I think the tranny cal could still be tweaked some with the downshifts from 5-4 and 4-3 (wish they'd just keep it in high gear and go down to 1 at a stop like trannys used to instead of downshifting on the way down), but overall I'm content with how it drives. And the rest of the vehicle is superb, especially for a mid-$20k price point.
Controller - ID - Current# - Selected# - Description
ECM -1
- 2
etc
TCM-1
-2
etc
If I have a way to send you the info, I'll scan the sheet for you.
I received mine in late August and when I took my Equinox for an oil change today (it had around 2,500 miles on it) the service guy told me that there were no new calibration version numbers for my equinox. I even printed these pages out and gave it to him too.
Do you think I was given the run around and they did not want to take their time and install the calibrations?
On another note - why are you getting an oil change at 2500 miles? :surprise:
Mine is a FWD 4cyl and I live in the state of Maryland, USA. This is a large Chevy dealership in Gaithersburg, MD (Criswell Chevrolet) and I think they are being dishonest with me.
Do you have any suggestions on how can I find a dealership that will update the calibrations for me?
Thanks in advance.
Here's the summary from my flash. The marks on it are from the mechanic.
Have a mechanic hook your Nox up to the GM computer and have a look for yourself.
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/1363/09271aserviceinfo.jpg
Thanks again!
Basically you just need to tell them you want them to hook up your vehicle to see if there are any updated cals. On this forum in one of the tranny cal threads (maybe this thread, I don't remember) there is a list of updated ECM and TCM cals (for 4 cyl FWD). Print these out and don't tell them you have it. But if you take it in and they say there aren't any updated, tell them you want a print out of what cals you do have. If they are lying, call them out on it. Especially if it is the dealer you bought the vehicle from, tell them you will give them a bad post-purchase consumer survey if they don't take care of you and respect your wishes in a thoughtful and courteous manner. Those surveys are a big deal to them and how they as a dealer are evaluated by GM. And yes, dealers do get paid by GM for warranty work regardless of if you bought the vehicle there or not.
A little story - I had my Trailblazer 6 years. When I bought it, the top warranty which extended bumper to bumper to 5 years was $1600 and I declined. Over the 5 I never needed it. At 5 years, 3 months the fan clutch went to the tune of $900.
From my experience, after market warranties cost less but you have the hassle of haggling over who does the work and how much they will fund of the repair.
About 15 years ago, I bought an extended warranty for a 2 years old Pontiac 6000 wagon because the price was an unbelievable $250 with $200 deductible for 5 years. Blew a head gasket on it, had it towed to the dealer and they picked up the full cost of their share for an engine replacement with no haggling.