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Buick doesnt compete in the mass market with vehicles priced at $15k. Chevy only offers two products that start under $20k so suggesting that Buick should focus on the $15k-$25k price range is ridiculous. Buicks are supposed to cost more than Chevies on average, if you want cheaper transportation GM would be happy for you to buy a Chevy product.
No Buick will ever sell 300k a year. Luxury brands as a whole sell less than 300k units in this market so its ridiculous to suggest Buick needs a top 10 seller that will crack 300k annually. As I said, Buick is selling more vehicles than acura or Lincoln with only 4 models. The Regal adds two models next year plus the Verano is coming as well as the hybrid Lacrosse- look for more sales increases going forward. A new Enclave should be out in 2012 along with a 5 seat CUV.
Luxury brands are doing well across the board in 2010 so I dont understand why you suggest that GM needs to lower Buick prices to compete in this economy. MB, Lexus and BMW sell more vehicles than Buick and they are doing fine this year in spite of higher prices relative to Buick.
I know that. But either you didn't read my post correctly or you haven't been following the last few years of GM's history. Do you remember when Rick Wagoner and the other 2 execs appeared before Congress Prebailout? Well check out that period of what other $ was thrown the Big 3's way.
The US is critical to GM's profitability and they made far more money here last quarter than they did in Asia.
And you're not just the least bit suspiscious that there weren't some 1-Time accounting games played for the IPO to look good, so the government could look good ... oh and coincidentally there was an election. It wouldn't be too hard for the non-public-GM to have upped fleet-sales to governement agencies at "higher-than-normal" prices, to increase profitability in N.A. Maybe not. But for those sorts of reasons government, politicians and business need to be kept as far as separate.
Your comments about GM needing another bailout are absurd and show you are clueless about the balance sheet of the New Gm
Really? If I'm clueless, then GM can repay the government in full today, right? Is that what you're saying Clueful? GM has so much $ they can repay the government and everyone they owe?
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It also seems that GM got rid of a big part of their duplication, and their bad product, and have made a better turnaround in a shorter period than most of us expected. Buick in particular is going like gangbusters in China--and remember, there are a heckuva lot of rich Chinese now, who do not view Buick as damaged goods, but rather a luxury brand. Here, The Enclave, Lacrosse and Regal are a really good start, and Buick is making sales records and profits for a change. Do I want a Regal? After looking at it, no. But I can certainly see why it fills the bill for many others.
As for 4 cylinder engines, they are the wave of the future for many near luxury cars. In 2011, your only choice of an engine in an Audi A4 or A5 is a 2.0 liter 4, and that car (selling well for the market in which it competes) starts at $32K and ranges up to $50K. Buick will be offering two differently tuned direct injection turbos for the Regal, and hotter engines and AWD will likely follow once production is completely transferred to North America.
In any event, there is no reason you need to either like or respect the Buick brand, or specific cars like the Regal. You are entitled to your opinion and welcome to state it. But continuing to try convincing others to share your view that the car is not competitive, or should be less expensive than the competition, is just not going to get much purchase on a Regal forum thread where you find lots of people who are interested in buying one, or sharing their experience of owning one.
Are they correct in saying, "But let's face it: In the U.S., Buick's demographics are the oldest of any major car brand." ? Anyone have statistics on the demographics for the Regal alone? Who's buying them, ex-Buick owners, or are people switching brands?
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".....It's as if Buick is experimenting with sports sedanhood, treading a little fearfully. Too bad, because all the right parts are present and accounted for. They merely require more massaging."
Now, while the car finished 3rd of 3, it was barely nudged out by the V6 Acura. I too, agree that GM has been a little conservative with the intros of new Buicks. I think I would have stuck with just the 2.0 turbo for the base, the GS motor for the next level, and used that 2.8 V6 or the Camaro's 312 hp 3.6 for the GS. The car's weight seems to demand it. But, if it's anything like my Lacrosse, the body must be rock solid, and worth the extra 300 lbs.
I personally don't believe, unlike other haters around here, that the car has to be perfectly superior in every way shape and form to be sucessful. It already has the basics to be sucessful, as well as appealing to an older crowd as well. I believe as they get feedback from consumers, they will quickly improve the cars. Look at the Lacrosse for 2012. ALL 4 cyl models are getting an inhanced belt/alt/starter system called e assist, and the base price moves up to about $30 grand. This should not only add value to the Lacrosse, but add value to the base Regal, as it no longer "competes" for sales in the mid to upper $20K range.
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When I first saw the Regal at the 2009 Chicago Auto Show I liked it, but it doesn't seem to be getting much attention in the market. I'm not a Hyundai fan but I see Sonatas everywhere. Not saying they're a better car, but they have a significant presence over the Regal.
The Regal is being rolled out slowly, and production will be shifted to North America. In the meantime, there is not much incentive for Buick to push tons of them out the door. That would be old GM think. New thinking is it is better to make a profit on lower volume, especially in the near-luxury market. The Hyundai, as good as it is, is not trying to be a TSX/A4/Lexus IS/Saab 93/Volvo S60/Infiniti G 2.5, etc., or a Buick.
I have seen between 7-10 Regals so far in Philly. Saw a rental last week. Its a low volume car for now, but thats not surprising considering it doesnt have a V6 and launched with ONE engine.
TSX sales were almost 2700 last month and Regal sales were close to 2000. Volume wise, the Regal is targeting TSX and CC, not Sonata.
I know that we discussed the Regal and its slight weakness in engine acceleration in the base 4cyl model. I am willing to lease the car. I got a quote for $360, $0 down, $0 due at signing, That is even considering my $1750 or so negative equity! I apparently have about $5,000 in incentives!!
The 2011 Jetta is what I really want,but it leases for $380 a month. The reason I was looking at the Regal is because it is so good in incentives now and my dealer pointed me there. I am willing to look at a loaded Mazda 3 for about $350.
$380 on an SE is a bit too much.
What would you do? The regal has everything I want!! Though, the engine is what I am afraid of. I already drive a weak 08 G6 4cyl. I know the Regal engine is a bit revamped and I'm sure its an improvement, but not near as fun as the Jetta or Mazda3 which like to rev and drive!
Other than this, I really like the Regal! and I am 26. So Buick did a good thing!
Thanks so much everyone! I really need to bite the bullet and make a decision!
The Jetta was about $21k and its payment was higher!!
The Mazda 3 loaded was about $350 or so.
So if I leased the Regal then I would be sacrificing the engine for the features it has. I really want a fun and fun driving car this time.
There is the $2500 lease incentive, plus a $1000 Conquest Rebate I qualify for, plus another $1000 rebate from Ally Financial for coming from an Ally lease, plus $1000 GM card money, plus $500 GM Card Bonus Money!
The problem is I want the Turbo, and it is not out yet.
For your situation, the only other car I would suggest looking at is the Maxima. They are selling significantly under MSRP, and the lease program (at least last month, have not seen this month), is very good. So a base SV would lease just about the same as the Regal.
Do you know, or can you ask, what is the residual value for your lease, and how many miles year/months are you looking? I'm trying to verify CAR_MAN's residual numbers.
Thanks!
It really is frustrating as to what to pick. I am currently going over my miles on my lease now, so I need to make a choice.
I am choosing to stay with my current dealer as the sell GM and I get a discount through them that way. They sell VW, Mazda, Buick, Cadillac, Ford, Mercedes, Audi. So I really have a few options. I like the Mazda3, but a bit small for my liking. But, a lot of fun! Tons of features.
I need to take the Regal out again! See what I think on the interstate. IF it lacks power like my G6 big time...Then No!
The Regal is only a little slower than the Jetta- about .7 secs according to C&D's test number- that isnt a big deal- especially when you consider the Regal is 500lbs heavier.
The regal's engine actually redlines higher than the Jetta and handling appears to be a wash between the two. The regal has FAR more equipment including leather, 12 way drivers seat, dual zone AC, larger wheels, etc.
I know someone who is about 23-24 who is interested in Regal as one of his options for a new lease.
Speaking of Dodge and such. Chrysler is launching a new vehicle in the Regal size and power, and Chrysler has always been marketed near-luxury. The Chrysler 200 starts around $20K for a 4 cyl., which is not bad, and has a 6 cyl. option of around 290hp. So it looks like competition in the mid-size market is getting much thicker.
Oh, if you want to spend $30K+, I saw a Taurus SHO with about 5,000 miles on it, selling for about $30K. You may not be able to afford a brand new one, but a lightly used one might be the ticket!
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/12/is-gm-back-to-channel-stuffing/#comment- - s
Why the deal on the Regal if it's a new, hot model? of an exciting brand?
So - Sonata with I4 turbo and top of the line (almost) with moon-roof, navigation, premium Infinity audio system and so on versus Regal with 2.4L, moon-roof, but no navigation and basic audio system. Sonata sticker price was about 30K and Regal's about 28K. I estimated that Regal equipped similar to Sonata will have 4K premium. Will it worth it?
Interior: Sonata feels more tight inside compared to Regal. I like interior design of Sonata - it was main the reason why I attracted to this car - it is more interesting looking and unusual than in any other mainstream midsize car I know. But again - it is not a Lexus quality. Buick's interior is less avant-garde but it is cleaner and has higher quality. Materials used inside Regal have more premium feel, but not up to Audi level. Steering wheel is higher quality and better shape on Regal than on Sonata. Sonata's steering wheel feels more ordinary - nothing special and some parts feel and look cheap. E.g. cover looks detached from steering wheel itself - kind of floating - esp if you look from passenger seat. Regal's interior even smells better. But it is all subjective. You may have different impression.
Audio system - I am not impressed by Infinity system installed in Sonata. Regal's even though being base level still sounded cleaner and more premium. Evidently even on premium audio option Hyundai tried to cut costs.
Where do you live such that there are Sonata turbo-models are available?
I've test-driven a Pontiac Solstice GXP that had a 2.0L turbo. Is that the same engine in the Regal? I didn't buy the Solstice GXP as I was disappointed in the way it drove - I think it was more the numb handling, but the engine didn't really compensate by being exciting.
Posts about the 2011 Regal are like a little sip of eggnog... warms my heart.
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Sonata claimed to have state of the art I4 turbo engine. It indeed feels refined and powerful - compelling replacement for V6 engine. How reliable and enduring it will be in the long run given Hyundai's reputation of building cheap throw-away cars (I actually have the same concern about Opel) - is the different story. But there are problems too - it feels jerky: you press gas pedal a little - car does not move, you press it little more - car jumps forward. May be it is turbo thing but it creates nervousness and it is serious - this alone may eliminate Sonata from my shopping list. In other words it is difficult to modulate power delivery. It does not have smoothness of Lexus-Toyota. Gear selector is too small and difficult to handle - I actually liked it what saw Sonata for first time on SF auto-show - it looked so cute and did not take too much of precious space on center console, but in real life it is a hassle to use it. It is a personal note though and not a deal killer - you may get used to it after some practice.
Regal's normally aspired engine is kind of let-down. Regal looks like luxury car until you turn on engine. Engine sound has some plebeian quality to it in stark contrast of luxury image that Regal's appearance projects - I could not believe my ears when sales person turned on the car! Gear selector is pleasure to use though, it also has a manual mode, but I had no opportunity to test it. Engine power delivery is not as jerky as Hyudai's - it is rather lethargic. During city driving it is not a problem, but on freeway - you press gas - and nothing happens - then after second or so car somehow accelerates. It might be transmission problem, or weight is too much for engine to handle. It reminded me Toyota Carina with 1.6L engine I drove in late 90s - to pass a car on freeway I had to floor gas pedal and wait and wait. You do not have to make this kind of sacrifice in America though where V6 is the norm. Said all that I will wait for turbo engine to make the final verdict because.
I also noticed that the Turbo has a different auto trans than the normally aspirated car. The Turbo uses an Aisin trans, while the regular car uses a HydraMatic 6T45. The Aisin trans uses lower-numerical ratios for each gear, which may explain why the performance of the Turbo is a bit disappointing. But I have to think with 70 more lb-ft of torque, it would have to be a lot more responsive.
I see that my dealer now has a few Turbos in stock. Maybe I'll see if I can drive one over the next while.
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I got an inquiry about my car after parking it yesterday from a guy who appeared to be in his 30s. He said he wanted to test drive one. Also passed a Regal a few blocks from my house yesterday.
Looking at it now, I am almost willing to lease the new Regal and gain style, tons of features, but yet again lack the engine power and fun. Though it does drive really nice, the turning ratio is great!! The whole package is great, the quality is great! I am very impressed. It is the engine that turns me away. I am actually scared to be stuck and unhappy with it. This is a car I'll have for 3yrs.
Anyone know if white is available with black interior?
Don't forget, the G6 was a lower hp version of the 2.4L. The Regal has the 181((??) hp version that is also found in The Equinox.
Where do you I see I "recommend" it? here's the exact wording.
"The Chrysler 200 starts around $20K for a 4 cyl., which is not bad, and has a 6 cyl. option of around 290hp. So it looks like competition in the mid-size market is getting much thicker."
What I'm saying is that the Chrysler 200 gives the buyer of a 4-door sedan, a choice to get certain functionality - midsize, adequate transportation for $7K less. Sure the Regal is probably better in features, but if you all want is transportation from Pt. A to B for 5 people. So no I'm not recommending it, I don't know enough about it; I'm just pointing it out that the market just got that much more crowded.
I'd guess the Chrysler 200 with the 6 cyl. is going to be typically optioned and priced near the Regal.
Steering is where Sonata really fails short. It is void of feedback especially on center, I would say it feels empty, and in general it does not have that smooth refined feeling of Camry or Regal. Regal's steering is light and refined but unlike Camry it is also precise and provides nice feedback. In other words - when driving Buick you do not pay attention to steering because it feels natural. With Sonata you feel sometime emptiness like in computer game. Buick's steering wheel itself also feels expensive and well contoured, while Hyudai's is kind of flimsy and mainstream.
Regal handles and feels like German car - solid and expensive. Sonata feels more like Asian car - not very exciting and kind of tinny. Regal is quiet and stable at freeway speeds, Sonata is noisy and nervous. In some aspects Sonata reminded me Chevrolet Malibu and probably for a reason since Malibu is an actual competition for Sonata, not Regal. But Malibu is more fun to drive than Sonata and it has better chassis too. If to compare Sonata to Fusion - Fusion feels like more upscale, premium car - it is more refined, handles better, steering is better and it is quiet and feels solid at freeway speeds. In other words platform used by Ford is better engineered than one used by Hyudai.
I would rather compare Regal with Fusion or Lincoln MKZ, and Sonata with Chevy Malibu. Hyudai still has to do its homework regarding steering and handling to be able to compete with big guys. Of course Ford engines are better than 2.4L on Regal or may be Fords simply have less weight to carry around or better transmission. But where Regal really shines is exterior design and quality and design of interior - thats where Ford falls short in both Fusion and MKZ.
If to compare Regal and Sonata in one sentence: the difference is similar to difference as between FWD Audi A4 and Acura TSX - you decide which one you prefer.
So I am skipping Sonata because of steering, chassis and nervous turbo engine and Regal with 2.4L for apparent reasons. My next step will be trying out Regal with 2.0T and comparing it to Infiniti G2.5L. I will report then about my findings.