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2 different publications expressed concerns with the beyond-the-limit behavior of the Grand Cherokee. For all we know it's a problem with 100% of them. You wouldn't find out until you attempted such a manuever (hopefully never).
Don't shoot the messenger.
Any more hard news out there that sway her to buy the Outback?
At this point, she is walking away, partially open to other cars and partially open to waiting for a real solution. It's the outback that she really really loves. But, wild horses could not get her to buy under the current status. If the car she is driving starts to rattle her, she will buy another car. I'm not sure that time is on her side.
I have owned a 95 passat and a 05 jetta. These will be my last vw's. Poor reliablity, fishy expensive extended warranties bought from vw, just are too problematic. Really, ashame. VW makes "fun", smoothe, nimble cars.
Time to return to the big american cars...just like my parents.????
In a survey 80% of owners said they were certain they'd buy the exact same car again, the highest number in its class. It's also a Top Safety Pick, a C&D 5Best Truck, and MT SUV of the year, plus it's CR's top rated small crossover.
It's about the same size as an Outback, looks better, and has had no issues.
Got the vehicle Oct 1, Mastria in Raynham) just turned 10,000 miles absolutely not problems at all, no vibration in front end either. MPG per trip computer now sitting at 28.8, actual is probably around 27.5.
No comparison to the 09 Forster I had for one year. That vehicle was a rattle-trap and gave a lousy ride. This one much better.
Ours is rattle-free, though we had a later built, about 6 months in to production.
Funny thing is when it came out, they had the LL Bean model, but by the time we bought ours the deal with LL Bean was done, so the 2nd half of 2009 models were called Limiteds.
The funny part? I actually liked the LL Bean embroidery and wood/leather steering wheel. Guess I got lucky...
I wish that they had the outback version....back when they also had eddie bauer limited version. If it ain't broke, why change it.
My sister drove the eddie bauer and loved it. Her husband likes to wheel and deal, bought a used mercedes wagon for her. She hated having to sell the outback, and still regrets it. And, let me tell you this is a woman who came to expect high end jacked up suv's. She went through two land rovers and one mercedes suv before she went out on her own and drove the older outback model. If folks want their ride jacked up, let them drive a truck. Personally, I think the love affair with suv's is one of Ugly America's most prolific trinkets. It sorely disappoints me that Subaru abandoned the outback model from a few years ago in order to claim a part of the compact suv mkt.
When it comes to reliability, good driving, and reasonable prices, there is nothing to compare to the older outback.
Hundai could move in and take away a lot of market share from Subaru IF they had the equivalent.
* a new Sonata wagon, besides the Elantra Touring
* AWD options for both
Then about 9.5k miles horrible vibration in the steering wheel above about 65mph.
Dealer did force test. Two wheels failed and replaced (one each in the front and rear - diagonal to each other). Duplicated the trip and no vibration. When I inquired about replacing the wheels that tested good, i was advised that tires are either good or bad - do not become bad.
My experience and others was that whatever the cause may arise over time. I insisted that I don't want surprises when i'm on the road.
Car is deficient and one event away from a Toyota type recall. :mad:
The fact is a few "beyond-the-limit behaviors" of the JGC (and what exactly does that mean??!) is a far cry from the well documented shakes of the competition which by this time must involve many hundreds of cars if not thousands.
There is no such systemic abnormality showing up yet in the new Jeep so far as I know. And when I get my new Overland in a few weeks I will report on its "behaviors" and will be the first to holler if anything untoward rears its ugly head. Count on it.
Please point me to any credible automotive source which describes a systemic handling defect in the new JGC. I had one up to 90 mph on the highway without so much as a shimmy or a shake or even wind noise. Are you aware that the new JGC is as quiet as the new Rolls-Royce Ghost at 70 mph cruising? Both 64 dB. Beat that if you can.
And exactly what "stability control failure" in the JGC are you talking about? Is there a website discussing hundreds of examples of this? IF so, just where is it? Is this "defect" discussed ad nauseum anywhere?
How about safety? The new JGC is arguably the SAFEST SUV on the road. Informedforlife.org gives them a 45 which is within the best performers of all vehicles in its studies. It earned the very best IIHS top safety pick and I dare say higher than a certain shakermobile that shall go unnamed.
The new 2011 Jeep Grand is among the very best vehicles on the road today in many capacities from off roadability to safety to refinement to high-end audio system to Garmin NAV and on and on. Let's not forget the heated steering wheel and ventilated AND heated seats front AND back.
There are bound to be those who will attempt to disparage it, particularly if they have just gotten stuck with a shaker or some other defectively designed also-ran. It will take more than a few detractors hollering about "skitter and hop" to derail this baby.
The link is https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/
Maybe soa will respond to a gov't inquiry before a toyota type issue bites them in the rear.
Beyond the limit means tire adhesion limits exceeded. Jeep needs to recalibrate their stability control, at a minimum.
This is not the first Jeep controversy with the media - Autoweek had issues with a Jeep Liberty when they tested it in the slalom. Jeep actually ended up recalling them and made changes to the suspension.
I fully expect that Jeep will do something similar in this case, perhaps a stability control recalibration like Toyota did with the Lexus GX when Consumer Reports had a similar experience with that vehicle.
If a buyer is concerned with suspension handling issues, perhaps they should avoid BOTH of these vehicles.
That's all I'm saying.
For me off road capability is not important, so while both represent good values, I'd choose the Outback.
Please point me to any credible automotive source
I already have - two sources in fact, Consumer Reports and Autoblog.
Are you aware that the new JGC is as quiet as the new Rolls-Royce Ghost at 70 mph cruising?
Are you aware that the much less expensive Subaru Legacy 2.5i tied that Jeep? For how much less? $20k maybe? Talk about better value...
Subaru offers you the same quietness at the price point of a Jeep Patriot.
IIHS top safety pick...
Did you look at the full list? How can you can try to use that against the Outback is comical. It's been a Top Safety Pick for as long as I can remember.
there are bound to be those who will attempt to disparage it
Just as there will be those who troll a Subaru thread to disparage them? Pot, meet kettle.
particularly if they have just gotten stuck with a shaker
Nope. We don't own an Outback. Our Forester is just fine.
Enjoy your Jeep, which is indeed a fine vehicle (I never claimed otherwise). I hope for your sake Jeep recalls and then recalibrates the stability control. Honest.
Let's face it, the domestics are getting better while the imports are getting worse. So are their attitudes and cover-ups.
However, it is only fair to add that the complaints that you have made on this board are certainly not widespread or general unlike those pertaining to certain other AWD vehicles under discussion recently.
Thanks.
I doubt very much the little Legacy is as quiet at speed as the Ghost or JGC regardless of the numbers reported.
I agree the OB is a safe vehicle but it is not in the league of the JGC according to recent tests such as the informedforlife.org data.
I'm not sure how you can claim "not in the league of the JGC." I seriously doubt that a crash tests from different sources can combine to create a discrete enough measurement to make that claim. The risk index is based solely on their methodology.
Any car that can score 4 stars or more on the new NHTSA testing protocol and is given GOOD ratings from IIHS is probably safe enough for most accidents and provides enough information to give you actionable data for car buying purposes.
All that said I think the JGC is pretty cool and if it can prove to be reliable will help bring back (give?) Chrysler a better reputation.
Jeep Grand Cherokee 4WD SUV w/SAB w/ESC Best 3% for 2011 45 = 8.4 + 8.4 + 1.0 + 27.6 5307 5 4 0.10 5 5 4 0.17 G G G G
BEST 3% for 2011.
Beat that.
No need to beat anything on a created ranking. Cars aren't meant to be ranked for crash tests. There are way too many variables and just because it performs well in the government test, doesn't directly translate to the real world. It just gives you a guide. You can't even tell what statistically significant is on that ranking scale. Percentile rankings are meaningless in a situation with this many variables. That's like thinking you're smart because you describe a measurement out to 4 decimal places using a 12 inch ruler. Doesn't matter.
Enjoy crashing your JGC!
(Like I said it's a great SUV. I would've shopped it myself, but I'll give Chrysler a few more years to prove they can build a reliable vehicle)
Percentile rankings are meaningless in a situation with this many variables.
I'll take the JGC any day brother over the "Smart" car!
I hope so as well.
Subaru acknowledges the problem but has yet to find a fix. It's tough when it does not affect all cars. I make a living troubleshooting and that's always a challenge.
Consumer Reports, December 2011, pp 70-71.
Autoblog I already provided, but here it is again:
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/12/13/2011-ford-explorer-first-drive-review-road-te- - - - - - st/
Motorweek (on television) said body roll was "rather loose" but you'll have to watch the show for that.
Motor Trend said "it starts to wallow when you push it real hard" in reference to beyond-the-limit situations (it's also in the text):
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/suvs/1008_2011_jeep_grand_cherokee_drive/ind- - ex.html
Still good reviews, but all hint at the same issue CR noted.
Also, before cries of CR bias, let's keep in mind that when the Lexus GX behaved in an unstable manner, they tacked a "Do Not Buy" rating and created a bunch of controversy (Lexus did provide a fix and CR dropped that label). They're giving Jeep a 2nd chance and will test a Hemi equipped model.
Observations and comments:
- you can't compare a V-6 to the HEMI
- the Ford has three rows of seats, a no-no in my book
- "On-road, the '11 Jeep Grand Cherokee is more refined and more efficient, and doesn't give up anything for its slightly larger size. Off-road at Moab, it hard to imagine how it could get any better. The Grand Cherokee still can go wherever the Wrangler lightly treads, and its slick new Terrain-Select gives the Jeep faithful a useful new gadget. Pressure relieved."
Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/suvs/1008_2011_jeep_grand_cherokee_drive/spe- cs.html#ixzz19uPoxgs3
- Ford is tending to overtechnologization of its vehicles. You can see it in the new Lincoln MKX which is an electronic gadget mess in the interior. My Lincoln Synch and the My Lincoln Touch failed to work properly when the salesman attempted to demonstrate them. Jeep is ergonomically superior by a country mile and everything inside the cabin worked on six (6) separate units I tested.
As far as this "body roll" issue is concerned, I think it is a tempest in a teapot. Generally, the vehicle is getting rave reviews from the vast majority of analysts such as that from Motor Trend.
CR's February issue tested the Hemi-equipped Grand Cherokee and it did *not* demonstrate the same handling issues they encountered with the Pentastar V6 model, FWIW. Just got that mag last night.
The Hemi seems to be the better choice, given the weight of the Jeep. Plus, I'd choose a Grand Cherokee to tow and go off road, and for both those situations you'd want the extra torque. At 16mpg EPA city it's not like the Pentastar is a fuel miser anyway.
I priced a Hemi with the air suspension is it came up to about $42k US. That's definitely in a higher price class, but still a good value if it's in your budget to spend that much.
But ... is it an alternative to an Outback? That's where we disagree. Even if you forget about the price delta, people buy Outbacks because they don't want a truck, that's sort of the whole point. I think they would be more likely to cross-shop a Venza and a Crosstour, and IMHO the Outback is by far my choice among those 3 options.
As for the Explorer - Chrysler will soon offer the new Durango to compete with that.
As far as the Outback is concerned, that would have been my choice, but I am not prepared to take a choice on a shaker. Plus Subaru has become dishonest. Jeep has not.
I'm not sure about the comparo between two vehicles that get such widely divergent gas mileage, size and weight difference and price; about $40K versus $30K. I think someone above made a comment along the lines of "$10K more". To me that's not "merely" $10K, that's ONE THIRD more.
If doing that why not just go up to the Acura MDX.
easypar
Consumer Reports got just 9mpg in the city cycle, and since I don't need to tow or go off road that is a trade-off that I'm not willing to make.
Go for it, we're on our 2nd Forester, and RL Polk just announced the Forester was a repeat winner in owner loyalty for its class. It is an IIHS Top Safety Pick, ALG best residual value in its class, C&D 5Best Trucks, MT SUV of the Year, CR #1 pick in its class, plus it's cheaper than the Outback, and you get the massive moonroof.
I say splurge and get more equipment, since it was below your price target anyway.
Best of luck.
The touring gives you the HID headlights. Take a test drive at night and see the difference. Good luck
As for the shakes everyone keeps posting about, I test drove my Outback and it did not shake, so I bought it.
Forester or Outback, I'm sure you will be happy any Subaru, but thats my two cents.
Best of luck on your exciting purchase.
I've had a 2010 Outback for over a year. It now has about 16,000 miles on it. It had what I would define as minor steering wheel vibraton at speeds around 65 MPG. More of an annoyance than a problem. I had the tires rotated and the vibration disappeared. I've had the tires rotated since and it has not returned. I also owned a 2000 and 2004 Forester, both good cars. But for me, the Outback has been a step up. Very satisfied with it. Take one (or more) on test drives. I'm sure you will be satisfied with either model. BTW, my Outback is a Limited 4 cyl. with CVT. Very satisfied with the gas mileage, about 30 going 65 MPG and about 25 in mixed driving. Good luck!
At the intro Subaru actually compared itself to 3 other small SUVs and was the clear (pardon the pun) winner.
It was all Subaru BS!
Sad, because I want to buy a new OB but will not when a company pretends there is no problem.
I may not even buy if they fix it.
Funny thing, but I like to trust my car manufacturer and dealer.
If that's the case, it is better to not ask too many questions.
On a serious note, I know exactly how you feel and agree wholeheartedly with you. Unfortunately, the manufacturers only really care about the liability associated with admitting such a problem and the dealers *usually* only care about making a buck. :mad:
Outback is rated better than average by CR and has very high customer satisfaction rate, which speaks volumes that shake affects small % of owners, no more than any other vehicles. Yesterday we bought new Honda Odyssey van and I drove it home and I thought steering vibrates more than OB, but no big deal, so it is all relative.
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/02/17/chrysler-fixes-grand-cherokee-handling-issue-- identified-by-co/
I brought this up, the response was:
If you get your car info from Consumer Reports you are in worse shape than the badly designed Outback.
I think you owe me (and a certain magazine) an apology...
Chrysler reprogrammed the stability control, just as I predicted they would.
Did I call it or what? :shades:
P.S. This is great car, great miles per gallon (with CVT). And a great warranty. with road side assist.
This is my 7th Subaru and I am still loyal but this problem could be a deal breaker if Subaru doesn't address it. I may have to try a different dealer--I know a dealer that has never been anything but the best with me but they are 4 hours away. I am going to call them and see what they say. If I have to waste a whole day and 8 hours on the road to travel there I will not be a happy customer.
Has anyone else had this issue with their OB? I have two friends with new OBs (2011 and 2012) and I am going to drive theirs to see if they have anything similar.