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Comments
Nan48: We found the headrests OK after all of our seat fiddling. They seem, along with the seats themselves, quite adjustable to me.
Skip
IMO, you are fighting a losing battle here. Percieved seat comfort is obviously highly personal and varies for each owner. The Japanese engineer the hell out of their products (some accuse them of over-engineering). You can bet that they have chosen the seats for the Avalon after careful study and testing, with the goal of pleasing as many potential owners as possible.
You bought the car after driving it. Now you have decided that the seats don't have "adequate padding." How do you expect them to fix that? Bring a seat designer/engineer/upholsterer to your dealership to custom craft a seat you like? Re-design and produce a new model seat at the factory and issue a mass recall for anyone who wants new seats, even though there would be no guarantee that the new seats will please everyone?
It's not going to happen.
Seats are one of those items that take time to wear in, and figure out if they are going to be comfortable enough for you, and well, unless you rent a car for a week or so (which I'll do the next time I purchase a new car), there isn't much you can do.
In my case, it's not only me, but EVERYONE who has driven my car, that says the seats are uncomfortable BECAUSE the seams dig into / push your legs / butt É
Lessoned learn.
Skip
Perhaps there is something wrong with your particular seats. Have you taken your car to the dealer and asked the service folks to inspect them?
While I like the idea of renting before buying, I wonder if that would be possible with the Avalon as I have never seen them offered by the rental companies I've used.
I disagree with you on this, only because I have had 3 Lexuses, all flagship LS models. The 02 had horrible, flat, unsupported, uncomfortable seats, and I never got used to them. They really could have used a Volvo engineer for the seats. The 05 I had came with much better seats, better material, more support, quite comfy. The 09 I have now has the finest seats I have ever sat in, so improvement has certainly been made, however, it has been a long time coming. I'm not sure they always overengineer everything on the car because of my experience here. Not sure about the Avalon, but I'm not surprised about what I'm hearing here.
I still believe I have some wind noise on the drives side. I can only tell if I'm doing 60 or 70 MPH. My wife says it's nothing and with the music on, naturally I hear nothing. The only way I can truly tell is drive another Avalon. I have 4,999 miles and dues for my first oil change. So far I really like the car.
Yes, we "test drove" the car, but only for 10-15 minutes max. Our Test drive was not reflective of the way we intended to use the car, i.e., 80 miles per day to/from work. In hind sight, I should have insisted on at least a one hour test drive. In the future on our next new vehicle, I will insist on a much longer test drive. But this somewhat like sleeping on a new mattress for a full night before actually purchasing it....does anyone do that? Maybe they should!
Finally, EVERY company--no matter how good-- makes mistakes. I believe that with this one exception (lack of adequate seat padding) Toyota has a real winner in the 2011 Avalon. What a company does to address these issues when they happen is what separates them from their competitors, and creates loyal customers. So yes, even though you believe that "it will never happen" , my wife and I firmly believe we need to make Toyota aware of the problem and give them the opportunity to address it. How they chose to handle this situation will determine whether or not my next new vehicle is a Toyota!
A few years ago we bought a firm mattress. We love the mattress at the store. Since we picked it up it actually stayed in garage for several months before we actually set the bed up. When we finally got the bed set up the mattress was so firm I woke up every morning with a back ace. My wife complained too. Because we paid so much money for it we stuck it out with a mattress cover (that helped) until I had enough. I know this has NOTHING at all to do with your seat problem. I guess what I'm trying to say, I can see why you would NOT notice a uncomfortable seat on a short test drive just like we never notice a stone hard mattress on a very short trial run.
Keep us informed.
I think one of the big factors when you test drive a new car, is that the car is very foreign and unfamiliar to you. Therefore, you are being extra cautious driving "somebody else's brand new car", while trying to focus on a few things that are important and you want to evaluate. For instance handling, visiblity, ability to accelerate, overall "feel", cabin noise, etc., etc. Of course, you can only do so much in 10 minutes with the sales person talking to you the entire time! I am not making excuses, its just the nature of the so called "test drive" . So ( shame on me) long term comfort was not tops on my "test drive"list. Believe me, I've learned my lesson! Maybe on my next new car shopping spree , I will ask for a cup of coffee, turn on the radio and just sit there (in the driver's seat) in the dealership parking lot for an hour to see how the seats feel!!! I may be onto something here.... ;-) Will definitely keep you posted on our progress!
When I test drove my Avalon. I did tell the salesman "get ready to sit for a while". I test drove it probably 30 minutes, probably more but a good ways. I was impressed by everything about the car.
We owned a wholesale business in Va. Beach. We dealt in cars so I had the luxury of driving few high end cars. We never owned or sold a Lexus or Avalon. We did own one 96 SS Impala, one Cadillac Allanta's a ton of accords, and cheaper cars. So for me driving the new Avalon was a pleasure. I would sit in other Avalon's to compare. Make a point to do this before all the 2011's are gone. Then you'll have your proof. Let US know if it's the seat or just your car. Hope this helps, Bill
I never doubted that you find your Avalon's seat to be uncomfortable and my use of the word "perceived" was intentional because it means to become aware of something through the senses and, as they say, "Perception is reality." I should have gone on to state that people's perceptions vary; what one person finds uncomfortable, others are fine with. This is true of sofas, chairs, beds, and car seats.
My assertion that the Japanese are diligent engineers and anxious to produce quality products (particulary cars) is based on industry and consumer publications as well as my own personal experience -- both as an owner of 30 cars in my lifetime and as a service provider to another major Japanese auto manufacturer. One story: I attended a dinner held by that manufacturer to honor their suppliers who had provided the highest quality parts. I spoke with an official of a company which had produced about 100,000 tie rods for the auto assembler. Of those, only 7 had been deemed unacceptable for various reasons. That resulted in his company being ranked 13th on the assembler's list of quality suppliers!
I agree that every company can and will make mistakes. It is certainly possible that the supplier of the seat in your Avalon made a mistake on that particular seat. It would seem reasonable to me that you should have it inspected for manufacturing defects and allow them a chance to replace it before escalating your complaint to Toyota corporate. Did you do that? If, on the other hand, your problem is with the design of the seat, then let Toyota know so that they can determine (through your comments and those of others) whether a re-design is required for future models. However, I remain firm in my belief that Toyota is not going to conduct a recall over seat comfort (which it sounds like you are hoping for), absent a nationwide outcry on the part of Avalon owners. Judging from the reactions so far in this forum, that isn't going to happen.
P.S. I am 6'2" and 210 lbs. I have a sciatic nerve problem in my right leg and I find my Avalon's seat no better or worse than those in any other car in easing that pain.
Uh, the car may be made in KY, but the seats are made by another company, sub-contracted out, probably DENSO, elsewhere, maybe even in Japan. Doubtful any padding was left out of his seats. The seats are not assembled with the car, only placed into the car at assembly.
Yea, that's probably true. The seats could be made any where. Japan?? I'm not sure but anywhere.
If this man is the only one have trouble with the padding, then IT IS very likely some padding was left out. I mean something is wrong. Somewhere. Maybe not less padding, but something is wrong. Unless we all have that problem and I don't. Plus I'm a heavy man. So I think I would notice before a thin man would. maybe!!!! ?
I owned a 1997 Park Avenue and was a lot younger. This car was a joy to drive and my butt/back never ached when driving it. I traded this car for a 2000 Regal with bucket seats and the first trip out of town I had to stop about every 2-3 hours and get out and walk around because of my butt/back ache.
I kept this until I sat in a 2002 Cadillac DTS with a bench seat. This car was the most comfortable car I've ever driven. In 2008 I was ready to trade again and my dealer let me have a new Impala to try out. I took off on a 200 mile trip and 23 miles out of town I turned around and took it back as I was already starting to feel the aches coming on. I then went and found another Cadillac but it had bucket seats instead of bench. The dealer convinced me the seats were the same in every other respect so I went ahead and traded without taking it for a long trip. Long story short is I traded this one for my 2011 Avalon last May.
With the seat extended I have driven 16,000 miles which incudes 5 trips of over 1500 miles each. I haven't had one back/butt problem since I got the car.
My problem now is that I don't ever want to trade again. I just don't want to take a chance of another bad experience.
I guess my point is "I feel your pain" It's a bad deal when you're not comfortable driving.
Don't see it changing any time soon.........grin and bear it !!!!! or move to another country.
Thanks for your message! I guess we are ultimately going to agree on some points and not others.
Out of curiosity, what trim level do you have on your 2011 Avalon, Base or Limited??? The reason I ask is that COOLED seats ( with fan assembly under seat) are only available on Limited (what I have). Since you feel nothing, I am wondering if you have base trim ( heated seats only, no cooling fan) ????
If your car IS a Limited, I am going to ask you a small favor, since we are very nearly the same height and weight. Next time you are about to get out of the car, pay extra attention to the feeling of the seat bottom as you open the door and then turn your self to get out....do you feel anything but pure padding on the seat??? The lumps I previously described are especially noticeable as you swivel in the seat to get out, it is right where the stiching is in the middle to right of the seat bottom.... I would be very curious to hear what you experience.
Thanks, and enjoy your Avalon....its a great car otherwise!!! On that point, you and I will always agree! :-)
Actually, it is good to hear a happy ending to your mattress story....gives me hope for my Avalon seat issue!
I spoke to the GM at our Toyota dealership today....he was great and is trying, but he can only go so far. Toyota needs to weigh in. I am working through him to set up a meeting with the local Toyota factory rep....obviously, I am prepared for an uphill climb here.
The dealership GM did give us another Avalon Limited to drive.....exact same seat issue....I knew it instantly when sitting in the car. I did speak to him today to about doing an extended test drive on the 2011 Avalon with Base (vs Limited trim). The Limited ( what I have) has cooled seats with a fan assembly directly udner the drivers seat. The base has only heated seats and no cooling fan. I am hoping what I'm feeling is the cooling fan under seat, and that the Base won't have this. If the Base seats have the same issue and I can't get Toyota to help, I'm afraid I'll probably loose money and go get the Buick Lacrosse which was a very close second. We keep our cars 10 years, and seats are only going to get less comfortable over time....so I can't see holding onto the Avalon unless I get a solution....sad...very sad....as I LOVE the rest of the car. I'll keep you posted. Thanks!
Is your Avalon a 2011 Limited model, or Base model? One way to tell is do you have just heated seats, or heated AND cooled seats?
Limited's have both heating and cooling. There is a fan assembly to blow cool air through the sets holes, and it could be this assembly that they added to the seats that I am feeling, but maybe you don't if you have only heated seats??? Just curious, as this might be the difference. Any help appreciated, as this issue is incredibly frustrating. Thanks!
Maybe I'll wake up and it's all just a dream!
but you gotta just love our Avy's! :shades:
I have the base model Avalon. I wanted the Limited, but Dear Wife fails to see the value vs the extra cost.
You may be on to something re the cooling apparatus. I assume that it is mounted to the seat and not the floor, but you might check by raising the seat by an inch to see if you still feel the lump.
An admittedly less desirable option might be an after-market seat cushion for use on long trips. From what I see on the internet, some are ventilated and some are heated. IMO, it would be better than taking a financial loss on selling the car.
I had my first oil change today along with tire rotation. Felt good not to be charge for any of this. :^)
And, yes, it is nice to have them service the car and not pay a thing! :shades:
I'm 5' 7" and 150+- weight (short legs), and the seams in the seat just hit nerves just right in my legs, and the car is uncomfortable at 500 miles +-. Now it's not unbearable, close, but not there.
Now a recent passenger offered to drive on a long trip (Maine to florida non-stop), and he pulled over after 30 minutes, and found a blanket out back, and folded over the seat - He said the seat SUCKED! He is 5' x6" 180 +- lbs. He too said the seams appeared to dig into his leg.
I have purchased an after market seat cushion which helps a lot.
I too, will do my best to take the next car on a long ride before purchasing.
Skip
PS I never pushed the issue with the dealer, so I have no one to blame for not getting this fixed or resolved. The car is now approaching 2 years old (I got it as a left-over) and 61,000 miles on it, and it's getting time to think of trading anyways.
I'm 6'2" and have long noticed that cars with sunroof offer less headroom.
Leads me to wonder if manufacturer's might now be compensating by providing lower seat height, less padding, when a sunroof is included.
I know we are talking about a car, that is A LT more money, but it's a few years old and a very good price, and well, if it's more comfortable then it might be worth it.
Like I've said, my seats it seems to be that the seams are bigger, and dig into my legs. Nothing to do with padding, as the seats seam (kidding) fine, if I can seat without the seams getting in the way.
Seat is awesome.....6'3", 250 pounds no complaints on comfort, heating and cooling works good.
Gas mileage....with Costco or AM/PM gas.....watch computer figure mileage as I drive but keep all gas purchases in a notebook.....low-----24......high-----31.3
Likes:
Dislikes:
Skip
In the past I've rotated about every 15,000 miles. Don't know if I came out ahead or behind.
Thanks
Likes:
Dislikes:
Like the quiet, the ride, the smooth handling, the power, the styling, the comfort, the ease of operating the amenities, no I-drive, no mouse, no dial, nice clear push buttons for everything! Very intuitive Navigation that is the easiest to use and only surpassed by Ford's Sync. Like the Mileage, 21MPG in town. Like the reliability, no problems yet at all.
Dislike? Honestly, haven't found anything to dislike yet, after a year and 18,000 miles.
Tire rotation.....I do mine every 5,000 but have a company called Les Schwab do the rotation....reason is I trust Les Schwab....and they have many stores in the state I live in, Washington and states that I travel to.
Dealer does the oil change!!!!!
Saturday I had a strong tail wind and my instantaneous mileage was often in the 35-40 range. Today I had a strong head wind and I saw it in the 19-25 range a lot of the time. I guess everything evens out arange.
I haven't reset the MPG since I bought the car last May and it now reads 27.1. I'm as tickled as can be with the mileage and the car.
I've had my services done at three different dealers and haven't had any problem at all.