Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
In my opinion, it will take many years for Toyota to recover from this mess, if they every fully recover at all. In the meantime, GM, Ford, Nissan and the Korean automobile companies are taking advantage of the situation, as they should. Toyota has been smug about coming clean over the past several years about problems with their vehicles, and now they are going to pay the Piper. Concealing safety issues for over 8 years is what did them in. I only hope the Japanese and particularly Toyota, have learned something from this experience.
In the meantime, let's hope GM and Ford also learn from this experience so they don't allow themselves sto fall into the same abyss as did Toyota.
2021 Genesis G90
Learned something? Come on!
They still don't even know the problem and if they had their way, they would still be blaming the customer, the supplier, the floor mats, the pedals, and the list goes on.
Toyota will not change from this. They are simply trying to tell the public what they want to hear to put the issue to rest as they did with the recall on the pedals.
What's that? The pedal recall won't really fix the issue??? What a surprise! LMAO
compliments of www.thespoof.com
I heard on the local radio station here in Cincy that all the local Toyota dealerships are complaining that Corporate Toyota is getting treated unfair by the government and it because the government owns GM. I don't think this is a good defense to use in America "you are picking on me because" You pulled me over because" You fired me because" Come on Toyota don't you remember Ford's Pinto Fiasco? The government filed criminal charges against Ford executives for the same thing you guys are doing
Bill
Gilbert is a star because he verified there is a problem with the binary code in toyota's main computer.
Kane as an attorney showed his true concern for safety of drivers. He had been attacked as a shyster, ambulance chaser here by some. He has helped bring attention to the accumulating unintended accelerations that weren't hidden by being told at the dealer that it was their imagination, they hit the wrong pedal, it was the floor mat, etc.
The real shyster was Lentz. he used weasel words to make past presidents sound honest by comparison. He carefully inserted adjectives to change the meaning of what was said and let it sound like what hopeful owners wanted to hear. But only 30% of the UA cases might be attributed to the two fake fixes toyota has run by the american public.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
But I have seen enough to cross Toyota off my list of vehicles I'd consider buying again, new or used. Between this and the arrogant dealers in my area, they don't deserve my business. Way too many other good choices out there. I'm going to be in the market for a small truck in a year or so, and had it narrowed down to the Tacoma and the Ford Ranger. Tha Tacoma is now off the list.
What does GM have to do with this. It's toyota that has the problem with openess about their runaway acceleration problem.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
What does GM have to do with this. It's toyota that has the problem with openess about their runaway acceleration problem.
It's about the pressure Congress is putting on Toyota, note the Title of the post I was responding to "Congressional Investigation Hearings Today". But thanks for your comment, didn't know you were now one of our hosts.
Yes, appears Lentz was a weaker CEO to testify. Unfortunately appears Lentz does not have total control over US Toyota. Too bad Toyota did not have an engineer present to help answer questions. Etc. But appears is not their strategy approach. Toyota has to be careul for liability related statements. SEC and Federal inquiry to factor in.
What I was disappointed about - he didn't have any knowledge aobut incidents, complaint, etc - what was done. Appeared - to be more sorry, sorry, sorry type of response approach.
Smith's issue will be addressed now finally. I do not feel they will ever have good feelings about Toyota. Smiths appeared to be intelligent nice people.
I have dentist appointment today. Just hope I will not miss Toyoda.
Yes it is, I agree, but several bad experiences at two of the Nissan dealers here have left a bad taste in my mouth. Plus there is a Ford dealership close to home and another close to work, so I have Ford at the top. Thx for the suggestion.
Toyota handled the Saylor (CHP) case like dozens of others over the last decade. NOT OUR PROBLEM. We build safe cars. If you crash it is your fault. That is until the facts in that case showed it was a dealer installed floor mat that was the likely culprit. Along with questions of inadequate brakes to override a WOT. Questions of why he did not shift into neutral. Is it possible at 120 MPH with WOT? And the keyless ignition that has to be held at least 3 seconds to shut off the engine.
I think the floor mats were the cause of many UA cases. And if Toyota had done due diligence with their Toyota and Lexus dealers we may not be posting on this thread. They threw in the throttle controller to try and shift the emphasis from there being any electronic anomalies involved in the UA cases. And of course the whole shim thing became an expensive Joke. It was a case of Toyota trying to blame someone else for their lack of engineering, in this case it was CTS. I think the Gilbert finding is just scratching the surface of the problems with Toyota's DBW systems. They include Throttle, Steering and braking issues. I would say they need to go back to the drawing board and start from scratch.
I had a Ranger with the V6 for a company car in a previous job. Gas mileage was terrible. Also, ride quality left a lot to be desired.
Exponent is well respected by those who need them for defense. Sure wish Toyota would have used a more neutral firm. Personally I will not be one who believes what they report.
He has so little knowledge of the problems his company's vehicles are experiencing? His mantra was the continuation of what we heard in the past.....floor mats....sticky pedals. Finally, after expert testimony (which Toyota tried to impeach, even with no engineering experts of their own to testify....not even Exponent) by Prof. Gilbert, Lentz wants us to believe that Toyota didn't even think it could be an electronics and/or software issue? That possibility never crossed their minds, at all? Even when there was so much evidence when their vehicles were causing accidents, and even deaths...up to 70% of them not related to the alleged floormats or sticky pedals? That they investigated and subsequently dismissed that as a cause?
As one Congressman pointed out, Lentz had a gaggle of lawyers behind him. No Toyota engineers were there to my knowledge. They did parade some Toyota employees to the hearing. I'm sure they got an all expense paid trip to D.C., full pay while they were there. Was that supposed to elicit some sort of ill-found patriotism? More likely, those folks are worried about losing their jobs in this Toyota fiasco.
Then, they had some of their dealers there. What would any sane person expect the dealers to say..."Toyota/Lexus vehicles are unsafe, built with shoddy quality"? The dealers livelihood depends on Toyota, too. Of course, they need to support Toyota. That's their bread and butter.
I doubt we'll hear anything to different from Mr Toyoda today. He can do the same song and dance Lentz did ("I don't know....I don't know"). Plus, he has the added buffer by having a translator, which is probably also a lawyer.
I've stated before, I don't for a second believe that Mr Toyoda isn't fluent in English. At least part of his education was done in the U.S....and MBA to be exact. Hell, I couldn't pass basic U.S. high school algebra if I couldn't speak English.
They have a fix for their recalls?
A fix? Really? Seems like news to Toyota U.S.A. President Jim Lentz.
And yes, 70% of complaints are still not addressed.
I felt Kane was very well prepared, and he most certainly distributed he had most knowledge about all the facts. No one there knew as much as he did of this SUA/UA timeline. I realize some may feel he is an ambulance chaser. BUT FACT REMAINS HE IS ONLY FIGHTING FOR US TO KEEP US SAFE!!! Him paying Gilbert a tiny amount of money, $1800, plus $4000 in equipment needed to complete test, & $150 is nothing compared to the $1,000,000+++ Toyota has PAID & used Exponent for in their trials, and now this present research. Toyota and NHTSA could have called Gilbert too when he called to say he found something. Don't forget University had to approve all of this.
I just hope Gilbert is ready for a fight back from Exponent & Toyota. Legally Toyota will want his findings blatantly destroyed.
I sure wish Toyota had not gone back again to Exponent. I kept hoping they could step to the plate at these hearings. So far not impressed yesterday. But story continues today - maybe I will see something good???? If I hear an attack against Gilbert presented, I sort of feel report will be fully analyzed and picked apart. Too much media publicity & pressure.
http://www.c-span.org/
Congressional Investigation Hearings Today
I hardly can imagine that Congress, being years late and dollars short on this safety problem via their NHSTA arm, has any interest in furthering GM's interests by critiquing Toyota.
> didn't know you were now one of our hosts.
Thank you for the compliment. I have often thought about applying for one of the host positions as any become available. You might consider it also.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
After highly recommending the dangerous Toyota Corolla which may be recalled for light and vague steering (Consumer Reports words), Consumer Reports Dare to TOP RATE the Lexus LS460 which posted the lowest speeds in CRs AVOIDANCE MANUEVER
TEST RESULTS: Lincoln Town Car (dated 30 year old design) 47.5MPH Lexus LS460 L 48.5 MPH, Mercury Grand Marquis 50MPH (dated 30 year old design), Toyota Avalon 50MPH Kia Amanita.
Consumer Reports DARE rate the LEXUS LS460L a top score of 99 out of a 100. Did I mention, this is the same magazine that highly rated the Corolla? Safety takes a back seat to selling magazines at Consumer Reports.
http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2010/02/consumer-reports-top-picks-on-good- -morning-america.html
He also said that the NHTSA would be "in the weeds" investigating the electronics/software of Toyotas and Lexus.
Whether Toyota likes it or not, after that investigation, there will be yet another recall......probably much larger than the current one.
No other outcome is possible unless Congress begins to look "behind the curtain".
Get someone deep inside NipponDenso, Denso US, on the hot seat.
Toyota/etc probably doesn't even get to look at the firmware source code, let alone debug/troubleshoot it. Not that anyone at Toyota/etc would understand it anyway.
I can tell you unequivocally that Toyota controls everything. They engineer the parts that are put in their vehicles (but don't manufacture all of them). They write their own code, or at least supervise the code that's in their computer and control modules.
That's why trying to offset blame to Denso, CTS, or any other supplier of anything to Toyota just doesn't hold water.
I'm convinced that they know of the problems, both electrical and software related. And,. they've known about those issues for a good long while. But, because of the cost of reflashing, and/or installing new ECUs or EPROMS, I'm also convinced that the sole reason the alleged fixes for UA and braking issues were limited to the least costly solutions....namely floormats and "sticky pedals". The question here is if it's the correct fix. Which obviously I don't think it is. Even at that, NHTSA had to force Toyota to enact the cheaper potential fixes.
Hollywood cannot write this stuff even if they tried: Document Preparation
Is Kane really an attorney? Not that I'd be surprised but I don't remember seeing that. I don't remember seeing any of his credentials other than he worked for Ralph Nader for a while.
It's clear that his organization does information and referrals for plaintiff's lawyers - and judging by how the NHTSA has done in this mess, I'm glad some lawyers are chasing after the car manufacturers to fix stuff. Otherwise problems would really get buried.
I've been gone all morning so I haven't seen any of the streaming video today. Someone catch me up. :shades:
I thought he was. Someone else had called him an ambulance chaser which implies attorney. I didn't hear the introduction when he started testifying.
Lots of boring testimony with the attorney/interpreter reading from prepared answers which must be to prepared questions. Early on she did a big alpha to "x" out a question or answer as it was delivered.
If I hear one more time how dedicated toyota is to the safety of the vehicle, I think I'll throw up.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
No, worse than than is "Customer comes first".
After highly recommending the dangerous Toyota Corolla which may be recalled for light and vague steering (Consumer Reports words), Consumer Reports Dare to TOP RATE the Lexus LS460 which posted the lowest speeds in CRs AVOIDANCE MANUEVER
TEST RESULTS: Lincoln Town Car (dated 30 year old design) 47.5MPH Lexus LS460 L 48.5 MPH, Mercury Grand Marquis 50MPH (dated 30 year old design), Toyota Avalon 50MPH Kia Amanita.
Consumer Reports DARE rate the LEXUS LS460L a top score of 99 out of a 100. Did I mention, this is the same magazine that highly rated the Corolla? Safety takes a back seat to selling magazines at Consumer Reports.
http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2010/02/consumer-reports-top-picks-on-good- - -morning-america.html
What is CRs thinking?
I didn't hear any credentials given by Kane during the testimony yesterday, nor did I hear Gilbert give his credentials. But I'm just half listening to the hearings on my other monitor.
Revit, your JD Power pic posts were skewing the page so I removed them. If you can insert height=400 width=600" before the > before the .jpg, that should make them fit. Our software doesn't handle big pics gracefully - apologies.
[edit] The rep from Kentucky (Speier) has invoked the internet (that's us :shades: ) about a constituent Tacoma owner's brush-off by a Toyota dealer ("the car has to learn your driving style") and gotten Toyoda to say that they won't blame the customer any more for safety concerns (SUA, surging, etc.).
[second edit]. Kaptur from Ohio just referred to the problem as Sudden Death Acceleration.
Just in driving past, I have noticed that the same dealership has beefed up their used car lot. So, I'm guessing that that's the way the dealership is staying above water....on used cars. This is probably the 2nd largest Toyota dealer in my area, too.
My son wasn't looking for a truck, so I don't know what their situation is on that end of things.
Best time to buy? Hard question. Some of us (like me) believe they haven't addressed the root cause of their UA and braking problems. From that perspective, until they do, now's not the right time.
In the future? Who knows there, also. Again, just a guess, but at some point Toyota is going to start somewhere to rebuild their reputation as best they can. Once they get their new vehicles fixed, I would say they need to offer longer warranties. Don't know if additional rebates would help them at this juncture, though. They've already upped those already, anyway. But, they've got 100+ days of stock sitting on dealer's lots. They'll have to do something to clear those out. What that something is...well, we really don't know.
A good time by buy? I'd wait maybe 180 days to see how this shakes out before attempting to buy a Toyota, though.
JD Powers 2010 Customer Service Ratings
It ranks only 2 automakers away from the 2 Star category which is "The Rest".
5 stars = Among the best
4 stars = Better than most
3 stars = About average
2 starts = The rest
Is this what Toyota refers to as "The Customer comes 1st"?
Prior to the trial Lexus flew an engineer from Japan to inspect the Lexus climate control. I still have the engineer's card around somewhere but I am very sure he was from NipponDenso.
He removed the climate control module from the LS400 and connected it up to what appeared to me to be a "make-shift" testing apparatus. I was told that the purpose was to verify that the climate control was operating as programmed but today I am quite certain, VERY certain, that what he actually did was a "reflash" of the climate control module.
I was later able to get the local Lexus dealer to verify, in writing, that my particular '92 LS400 climate control model did not (no longer?) operated in accordance with the '92 specifications.
In addition I have taken apart not just a few of these Toyota/etc/Denso microprocessor control modules over the intervening years and they all have Denso parts throughout. Just as the european manufacturers rely primarily on Bosch as a resource I am personally satiusfied that Toyota/etc relies on Denso, both as a supplier of controlling hardware AND the firmware within those controllers.
That is not to say, or deny, that Toyota/etc is closely involved in writing performance specifications for the firmware.
Also, otherwise, Denso could not supply these selfsame components to other asian marques.
It's a bit of a perfect storm for Toyota too isn't it? Even if there wasn't a single recall out there, no one is buying because of the economy. One circumstance is bad, but having both the economy and the recalls to deal with are tough on the bottom line. The dealers must really be pulling their hair out.
I'm confused. The Venza has the Denso pedal and is not on the recall list(except for mats) since it is supposed to be safe. There was an even earlier report on how to identify the brand of pedal you had to make sure you had a Denso.
What is the story here? Is the Denso pedal safe or not? Was this congressman just trying to support his plant in his district or what?