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Comments
Toyota will have people say over and over how much they always have cared about the driver's safety in the toyota automobile. :grin
And there will be posts about how the hysteria is all out of control. :grin
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Making profits more important than human lives is unacceptable. My own belief is that toyota's interest was profit. Period. But the venue taken here leaves me with a suspicion that there are other motives behind the congressional action. My hope is that when this is over that manufacturers (regardless of who they are) do not risk human lives for the sake of profits and that automakers use the technology available to provide the safest vehicles possible for the consumer.
I like it as BBQ Ribs and Kalua Pig. Bacon and Sausage too. Pork is all good.
Truth is very few politicians can claim clean hands when it comes to dishing out Pork.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-lahood-profileapr07,0,7542843- .story
Yes, I know wiki - and their issues - but documented political party affiliation is correct
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_LaHood
I did not like the news yesterday. Not good for Toyota. But had wondered what Biller had on Toyota?? 2005 or 2006 Internal memos do substantiate fact Toyota was looking also looking -at ETC and 7 upgrades were already done. Another attorney writes re: ETC - difficult task to correct, if not impossible. This seems to contradict Toyota past/continued stances - no problems electronics???
LaHood -I am wondering also?? Watching.
You are correct - very few politicians.
>What do any of you feel??
I can already hear the money being poured into the campaign funds of senators and representatives in DC and states around the US and of course it's all just in the interest of safety for consumers when they buy cars.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/congress-blasts-toyota-withholding-key-evidence-se- cret-books/story?id=9957579&page=2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dg8QCHIavfY
We're now talking criminal charges like obstruction of justice.
I'll await the results of his testimony and documents produced regarding the subpoena, though. He's just too, oh I don't know, unstable maybe, to go only on his word.
I do not see this as a vendetta towards Toyota. Facts and actions unraveling seem to support many mistakes made by Toyota. Facts of timeline since 2002-2003, etc. reveal multiple questions for all involved addressing UA/SUA. How they disregarded all the deaths and injury complaints when addressing/dealing with/correcting the issue?. And NHTSA is turf protecting as well - they are susposed to be the watchdog safety agency. And the Oversight Committee is doing some turf protection as well. But problems do exist. How serious? - pending.
For me - when they hired Exponent to defend their electronics - was "final straw that broke the camels back" for me. Posted couple of the proven documented facts earlier regarding Exponent. PGE - chromium pollution CA.. I was already aware of Exponent reputation from medical research. I actually was truly pulling for Toyota. Facts that unraveled over the months since August, 2009 were shockingly revealing.
Other manufacturers better clean house too re: UA/SUA. Some crisis could rise and "bite" them too.
Click on pdf file left hand side - Letter from lawmaker to Toyota - attachments of just few documents.
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-toyota-biller27-2010feb27,0,4348450.story
Since Biller was managing attorney for Toyota during his tenure with them - think he was probably pretty good & well respected attorney. I too have felt I saw some possible medical issues. I am not sure whether this can be attributed to an existing medical condition cause or pyschological condition cause?? I realize he stated he had breakdown. Medical condition cause can't be r/o'd out though. ????
I have not fully read attachments documents w letter. Do pay particular attention to sections addressing UA/SUA - internal communication between two attorneys re: ETC and upgrades - 2005 or 2006. Lots of documents. Will look at more later.
Personally, if I didn't have anything to hide regarding Toyota's electronics/software safety issues, I would have countered Dr Gilbert. If I had nothing to hide, I would have told Congress...
'Ya know, we have some pretty smart people....some really smart engineers who are our employees, too. We've got our own "Dr Gilberts" who work for Toyota. We hire a lot of them to help us with safety issues and to design our vehicles. And, here's what they found out. Here's what they proved in their extensive testing of our electronics/software. These are the reasons they only think it's a floormat and accelerator assembly problem. You should probably let them speak."
Did Toyota do that? Did they let their own internal "Dr Gilberts" refute any of the evidence? Nope! Instead, they got Exponent, who was only hired literally hired a few days before hand. I'm sure, not to get the truth and research out. But, to probably "prep" Lentz, Inaba, Toyoda on what to say, and what not to say. The results are what we all saw and heard.....which wasn't much, except "I don't know"....or the occasional "slip up" (as in Lentz's slip of the tongue that they have a cruise control UA problem, too).
While, perhaps as a person who does or doesn't come off well in an interview, Biller certainly must have presented the Congressional Oversight Committee with some pretty damning evidence in order for them to try and compel Inaba to turn over documents that Toyota is trying to hide....especially as they're related to the safety of their vehicles.
Plus, there was the "blurb" about 6 or 7 software fixes that Toyota was implementing to perhaps "cure" the UA issue. This, hot on the heels of the Toyota's statements that software was thoroughly invetigated and ruled out as a cause.
This is going into very, very dangerous territory for Toyota....that is criminal areas....obstruction of justice, contempt, and probably some other legal black holes that Toyota definitely doesn't want to be in.
Inaba's response will be very interesting. We'll see if he tries to block handing over these documents. If he does, we'll pretty much know that Toyota is hiding pertinent evidence. And, it will have to be derived via subpoena. Something tells me Lentz, Inaba, and maybe even Toyoda are not finished testifying in front of Congress.
Plus, we don't know what the SEC has turned up yet in their Toyota investigations. Nor do we know what was found in the gov't raids done on Toyota's closest suppliers.
Now I'm wondering if this isn't all going to culminate into a showdown between Toyota and the DOJ.
Perhaps hitting them (toyota) real hard financially will drive the point home not only to toyota, but other manufacturers as well. You buy your politicians and lobbyists then you hope to get what you pay for - protection and profits. It's sad that our country has come to this. This time it is at the cost of human lives. I think this may bring all the automakers into looking out for the consumer, but I am betting it will be shortlived. I hope I'm wrong.
That's also how I spell the word. Why is it that so many people here on Edmunds spell it "manufactures"? Are marvin6 and I missing something here? Is "manufactures" the correct way to spell manufacturers when meaning manufacturers plural, or something?
Looking for English majors here or English nerds to take a break from Toyota's nasty, intense, troubles for just a moment and help me to clear this very important spelling-meaning issue up, please.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Safety agencies seem to be helping bring facts to public. News pressure has been great. Some bad. But some investigative reporters have brought true facts to us and have alerted public what is going on..
Facts do reveal DHTSA and Toyota disregarded SUA complaints of long duration which were ones involving accidents/deaths. These complaints were the worse. Narrowing the scope of investigation What is left to consider? Minor nonserious UA complaints that do not appear serious - just left.
Impression left in our minds - human safety disregarded for benefit of corporation. DHTSA just had only one death listed?? But heat on & then suddenly 34-35 deaths, hundreds of accidents. Where are all of DHTSA documents and Documents defending what mutually agreed to??? Seems no public disclosure that I can find.
UA/SUA could have been addressed and safety system was available at least 10 years ago that could have been installed each and every vehicle of each and every auto manufacturer.. ???
What is sad DHTSA number of complaints does not address full scope of the true number of incident complaints. DHTSA had statd Toyota has many more than they have at their dealerships. Are they turning all over?? Very sad all UA/SUA complaints not addressed and considered. The management approach to not consider the worse which cause deaths/injuries just leaves many questions how/ why this would lead to discovering the true cause??? I am sure enough of us have had professional management experience, and realize the major flaws that exist with this type of approach. Then comes the unproven suspicions. Neither DHTSA or Toyota publicly providing long trail of documented proof to US citizens good substantiated feasible reasons for this type of approach. Sure wish they had/did.
I sure do appreciate you being here on this forum and I am enjoying your insights on this most important and troubling late-breaking automotive/safety issue here. Thanks again!
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Much more likely that something is happening that results in "upsetting" the instruction execution sequence of one of the microprocessors in the engine/transaxle control module/system.
Lots of RFI/EMI "wondering" around within the engine compartment and clearly some serious issues to be overcome with the 12 volt supply system.
Driving along on the highway just yesterday I happened to notice as I drove by the area at least 8, EIGHT, cellular telephone antenna systems/towers all with a stone's throw of each other.
If y'all need a breather, check out Grammar and the Peeves that Pet It.
NOTE - fit Biller's internal Toyota 2005-2006 memos re: ETC fixes into the whole Toyota UA/SUA timeline. Yes, seems a big issue here for Toyota??? Once I saw this I go oh no!!! I do realize this is from the past, but when you fit in into timeline along with other documents then YIKES! Some implications as not addressed/taken care of then.
I found it interesting FBI did raids on Toyota suppliers also. Appears two carry Japanese names. Alarming?? What is going on??? Guess this story has to unravel as well. But something is/may be suspected or has been found??? I realize Japan and US are in negotiations at present, but can't seem to connect to Toyota's present problem re: UA/SUA. Neither do I seem to connect any US government bias to US manufacturers - possibly leading to pressure on Toyota.
So far all I can find is Toyota after the San Diego accident - 911 call released to public by CHP- Lexus loaner with prior UA/SUA customer complaint - Toyota in the hot seat - this is one of their models with UA?SUA problems. Public pressure & US history seem to indicate any of auto manufacturers would have been in hot seat after San Diego accident if their ongoing/recent UA/SUA complaints were higher or history not resolved/existed. And then all that has happened and been revealed as story has unfolded. To me seems to be DHTSA and Toyota in hot seat together. Appears they themselves managed/addressed/fixes mutually agreed to & got themselves into this highly questionable predicament.
And we have no true factual actual numbers of UA/SUA complaints. DHTSA has few, Toyota dealerships have many more, news agencies have picked up more, some not reported, and now more coming out with publicity. DHTSA Data Complaint System is only voluntary. Trends in NHTSA complaints can be analyzed. But headache time attempting to analyze any stats reported with NHTSA numbers only. As for me I am more interested in the last three to four years of how a manufactuerer is doing.
How will dust settle??? Have no idea. Will be watching, as have vested interest, and will have to make my own decisions re: what I will do re: my vehicle.
Not as easy for cover-ups in todays modern technology oriented society. it seems. Documents released publicly travel the internet quickly. And this is good. Helps keep everyone honest. Detrimental document information just keeps drippling out as time has passed. I just go "oh no" each time. Keep hoping - but my patience has run out.
As to your concerns - I just posted a blog of what it seems I have put together so far. I can't connect at present. Also is a reference to why it seems Toyota is in hot seat today and other manufacturers are staying "mum." History of past seemed to help lead me to my present possible impressions. Facts of how it started. etc.
Yes, I too hope all manufacturers clean up their problems. US citizens do not like human lives sacrificed and disregarded/eliminated from considerations to address/act /fix problems for profits of a corporation. .
Toyota did try to say they hired Exponent and their reports found no problems. Approached news agencies and tried to convey to public. Sadly report was only basic and seemed to be of no real value. Experts were tearing report apart. This attempted approach by Toyota seemed to fall flat then. Law makers state Toyota did not produce their own engineer reports as they requested. Lawmakers only got Exponent's.
So much conflict seemed to exist at the hearings when comparing testimony. Saw report Toyota retracted Lentz's statement "fixes may not address all the problems." Also saw a news report Toyota will not nationally provide free rental, payment taxi, etc. for inconvenience costs as they seemed to imply at hearings. New York - as agreed with Cuomo they will.. Guess all to unfold - truth re: these two issues. .
Seems like both you and I were hoping for Toyota to give a good honorable approach type testimony at hearings.. Strongly stomp down critical speculation.
Any Japanese folks able to weigh in?
Corporate greed, of course, also explains this whole thing.
Don't know if you heard Rhonda Smith's testimony to congress. Just like you all she wanted was her money back on her new Lexus.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM6hi5R0PNw
Yesterday's news if you did not see it:
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN2611433620100226
http://www.springerlink.com/content/y674m082j2662t67/?p=e0636b17646e4836aa99c46d- bb75b166&pi=1
Actually I didn't have much knowledge about auto mechanics/engineering at all. Just have vested interest from owning a Toyota vehicle. Dug in, researched, etc. My son does do auto development/engineering though and he has helped alot. Many of the blogggers here have been patient and guided me along and have patiently put up with me. They have been wonderful. I have only tried to put all the real factual information together in the many year timeline - as pieces to a puzzle. Analyzing info as I and other coworker peers did professionally in meetings. Applied medical scientific study analysis approach to reports I have read, info with this situation. Does definitely work to discover any faulty aspects that may be present in a report. Engineering technical reports - I am totally lost. Have some insider perspective to corporations. Knowledge of CA corporate codes. Some knowledge of legal issues, lawsuits. Etc.
Words spoken and true documented facts sometimes conflict. Etc, etc, etc. Just keep trying.
Then go back to the early 1900's and radio transmitters (morse code) consisted of high voltage/current spark gaps.
Those Toyota/etc A/C electromagnetic clutches, absent "snubbers", represent modern day versions of those 1900's spark gap radio transmitters.
More like 3 or 4.
Yes, if this current Toyota situation had ocurred back in say, 1948, the Toyota president would have felt "obligated" to commit suicide. That culture is what makes Japanese management so diligent at producing a quality product, "Relentless Pursuit of Perfection, but on the other hand very motivated to avoid public admission of mistakes.
I presume they are using this pedal in the 2011's since production began again a few weeks ago. I also wonder if they are putting Denso pedals in the 2011's at the moment?
I wonder what this is...Anyone know?
Many auto makers put them in cars. They give pertinent information on what is going on with the vehicle. Handy in discovery of accidents. Some legal issues like who the data belongs to. Toyota's EDR is very secret. They are the only ones that can download and decipher the data. I don't know of any other automaker that is not an open data source. GM has used them a long time.
The EDR in the 2009 ES350 that experienced UA, and 4 people were killed, was retrieved by the sheriffs office. It supposedly contained no readable data. That of course according to Toyota. I don't think you can believe a single word they say.
If the control computer gets as hosed as some theories suggest, it may be incapable of writing any meaningful data to the EDR, although the last 5 minutes leading up to "the event" would theoretically be there.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/runaway-toyota-owners-story/story?id=8999481
Talk about a high and mightier than other people automaker. I'm really starting to get the creepy-weepy's from these guys.
Or is this a Japanese cultural norm we're dealing with here? I am interested in how this comes out, not because I own a Toyota, but because I own my first Japanese car, a 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS. Kinda makes me a tad suspicious, know what I mean? We've already discussed how Mitsu execs falsified data in an earlier Mitsubishi recall. In some way. Not even to mention their failed idea to give every dork in America who wants a Mitsubishi an instant loan and 0-0-0 payback package. I can just see them smacking themselves upside their own heads in disgust when these fruitcakes started defaulting on their loans.
Having said that, Mitsubishi sure did a fine job building our 2008 Lancer GTS. Today I took it through some SE Arizona twisties below Dos Cabezas peak. The car steers accurately on a dime as you accelerate through the turns. The car is a pure and thorough joy to drive. I would be amiss to stray to Suzuki or BYD when my Mitsubishi drives and looks the way it does.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I got the impression that the toyota EDR was very deficient in terms of how much information was written there timewise--very small memory. It was a very short period of time that was able to be stored compared to a GM vehicle. And the information was somewhat primitive. Toyota didn't have to provide a wholesome EDR until 2012 when it will be required and they were putting in minimal equipment.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Seems it has taken quite awhile. Think finding of a special panel weere given 2004 - law passed 2006+-???
Does anyone else have??? Would love to add to my collection
http://www.safetyresearch.net/toyota-sudden-unintended-acceleration/toyota-sudde- n-acceleration-timeline/
Must have been a very scarey incident for her.
I had Reuters already. But thanks anyway.