Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Most popular vehicles
Popular New Cars
- New Acura MDX
- New Acura RDX
- New Audi Q5
- New BMW 3 Series
- New BMW X3
- New Buick Enclave
- New Cadillac Escalade
- New Chevrolet Equinox
- New Chrysler 300
- New Dodge Challenger
- New Ford Edge
- New Ford Escape
- New Ford Expedition
- New Ford Explorer
- New Ford F-150
- New Ford Focus
- New Ford Mustang
- New Honda Accord
- New Honda Civic
- New Honda CR-V
- New Honda Fit
- New Honda Odyssey
- New Honda Pilot
- New Hyundai Elantra
- New Hyundai Santa Fe
- New Hyundai Sonata
- New Hyundai Tucson
- New Jeep Compass
- New Jeep Grand Cherokee
- New Jeep Wrangler
- New Mazda 3
- New Mazda 6
- New Mazda CX-5
- New Nissan Altima
- New Nissan Maxima
- New Nissan Rogue
- New Porsche Cayenne
- New Ram 1500
- New Subaru Crosstrek
- New Subaru Forester
- New Subaru Impreza
- New Subaru Outback
- New Tesla Model S
- New Tesla Model X
- New Toyota 4Runner
- New Toyota Camry
- New Toyota Corolla
- New Toyota Highlander
- New Toyota Prius
- New Toyota RAV4
- New Toyota Sienna
- New Toyota Tacoma
- New Volkswagen Jetta
- New Volvo XC60
- New Volvo XC90
Popular Used Sedans
- Used BMW 5 Series
- Used Chevrolet Impala
- Used Chevrolet Malibu
- Used Chrysler 200
- Used Dodge Charger
- Used Ford Fusion
- Used Ford Taurus
- Used Honda Accord
- Used Honda Civic
- Used Hyundai Elantra
- Used Hyundai Sonata
- Used Tesla Model S
- Used Toyota Camry
- Used Toyota Corolla
- Used Volkswagen Jetta
Popular Used SUVs
- Used Acura MDX
- Used Acura RDX
- Used Ford Edge
- Used Ford Explorer
- Used Honda CR-V
- Used Honda Pilot
- Used Hyundai Santa Fe
- Used Jeep Compass
- Used Lincoln Navigator
- Used Mazda CX-5
- Used Nissan Rogue
- Used Subaru Crosstrek
- Used Subaru Forester
- Used Tesla Model X
- Used Volvo XC90
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
Facts of the case will be investigated. As it now stands SUA/UA did happen as it was reported per CHP officer and Sikes and news reports. The officers publicly released interview/new reports have this officer stating stating brake material was visibly on tires and ground - are difficult observations to disregard or dismiss easily. The CHP release of 911 tape is another problem. Sikes background will be investigated, but CHP report findings do have huge impact.
Until proven otherwise, incident so far is a SUA/UA incident. This is just a fact.
Here's Mr. Sikes' car in the pitstop at Daytona.
I guess our 'Yota fanboys will also claim they saw him get caught by Chris Hanson on "To Catch a Predator."
I have heard mention that if you have a sensitive foot (feel) that you may notice a slightly faster "return" action of the pedal when released....also some have said the pedal is a bit more sensitive. personally, I do not like the feel of the shimmed pedal, but that is just me....most cannot feel a difference.
THE BIG QUESTION IS WHAT , IF ANY, THE LONG TERM EFFECTS OF THIS FIX MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE!!!
depending on the state, if you do not have it done, and there is an "incident", YOU COULD SHARE SOME OF THE LIABILITY YOURSELF!!!! (This is called the A0A SAFETY" RECALL) reproduced below (as in negligent liability issues!)
FYI, if you did not know, there are a few different iterations of this Document floating around in the USA. There is even some confusion at Toyota USA!!!
One says something to the effect that if you do not like the feel, or are dissatisfied, that you can have the entire pedal replaced at NO CHARGE to you.....catch is, you must have the shim fix first before you apply to get a new pedal...AGAIN, THERE ARE A FEW OF THESE DOCS AROUND AND SOME SAY IT AND SOME DO NOT!
Safety Recall A0A - Accelerator Pedal Reinforcement Bar Installation
Non pertinent sections removed by OP 9BEGIN RDIT!)
Q1: What is the condition?
A1: There is a possibility that certain accelerator pedal mechanisms may mechanically stick in a partially
depressed position or return slowly to the idle position.
Q2: What is the cause of this condition?
A2: Over time, the internal mechanisms in the accelerator pedal may become worn. As a result of this wear
combined with certain operating and environmental conditions, friction in the mechanism may increase and
intermittently result in the accelerator pedal being hard to depress and/or slow to return or, in the worst case,
stick in a partially open position, increasing the risk of a crash.
Q2a: Why does this condition only affect certain Toyota models?
A2a: Toyota equips its vehicles with accelerator pedals manufactured by multiple
The following is the portion of A0A that has been changed and may affect your situation!
Q8b: What if a customer is not satisfied with the accelerator pedal operation or the feel of the pedal
after the reinforcement plate is installed?
Q8b: If the customer is not satisfied with the accelerator pedal operation or the feel of the pedal after the
reinforcement bar has been installed, a replacement accelerator pedal will be offered at no charge
when they become available.
(Balance of Toyota Document A0A removed in the interests of space!)
I'm wondering how Toyota was able to have the oil line replacement not designated as a recall. From what I've read the failure of the oil line could cause the oil to drain out of the motor causing the motor to freeze. Last I understood, a freezing motor at highway speed would constitute a safety hazard.
Even now they are holding back. The recent California Prius incident provides proof that the UA problem is in the electronics. Toyota has no doubt known that for some time yet they deny it to this day. They also know that the problem has existed for a while in vehicles that they still refuse to recall or stop production of for selfish financial reasons, namely their "flagship" Prius and their high margin Lexus line. They make sure that nobody but Toyota can read their encrypted Event Data Recorder data in their vehicles. This company is void of ethics and is lying to the world, so maybe a witch-hunt is exactly what is called for. Maybe their unethical behavior does not bother you and based on dry statistics you are happy to let them off the hook and give them your money.
I have been very disappointed, and shocked at the publicly released discoveries/investigations regarding Toyota. And Toyota was not stomping on/out any of the claims with proof. It would have been easy to "nip all in the bud" immediately.
Sure other manufacturers have issues too, but the public outcry presently is against Toyota. This was no government or other manufacturers conspiracy against Toyota. Facts do not support. Toyota has to face the crisis caused by this one incident and the publicly revealed multiple problems with SUA/UA over the years. One incident can not cause a crisis if no problems related to incident do not already exist for that corporation. Their history of problems is what caused this crisis to become a major ongoing/continued crisis. Too much detrimental information about Toyota just keeps dribbling out.
Just saw this morning Orange County DA, California has filed civil case against Toyota this morning. DA offices do not file case unless proof is established/legal analysis opinion they need to prosecute. I had posted a link I found yesterday when checking what market did yesterday. There was story right at top of the few news headlines
present.
http://www.ocregister.com/news/defects-238980-santa-suing.html
Here - LA Times article was interesting as they discussed past actions, lawsuits, investigations against other manufacturers and what really happened in the end.
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-toyota-legal12-2010mar12,0,4401308.story
Here is also some great food for thought for everyone. MSNBC investigative reporter wrote the article. Article appears nonbiased and well done. Auto electronics and the problems discussed at length. Consumers are driving cars that are actually controlled by electronics.
http://redtape.msnbc.com/2010/03/toyota-woes-raise-ghost-in-the-machine-fears.ht- ml#posts
Toyota now going on the offensive attacking may/could backfire. Toyota's attorney hiring of the questionable defense litigation firm Exponent reveals so much to me. Note I mention Toyota's attornies hired, as this does have great legal protection/control of all their reports. Their reports are protected under attorney client privilege. Their reports are also protected well in any lawsuits/court proceeding from being released to public, and many times court records are sealed. Even though public knowledge of case could help protect the public from accidents/injury/death. Most of Toyota's settlements are reached under nondisclosure terms. This is just US law and how it works. Not good.
Of course Toyota is withholding information. Corporations do this. It's called the corporate veil.
Other manufacturers have had similar public outcry crisis situaions too. Each has their own details and history. Other manufacturers have SUA/UA complaints too. But as I said this time it is Toyota because Saylor family accident causing deaths, release of 911 tape going viral was main factor causing the public outcry. And then the detrimental information coming out. Didn't have to reach this magnitude, Toyota could have easily countered. Coorporation did not do. Words have no meaning. Proof does. No proof provided early on.
This is a safety issue only. Not political issue. Webhost has asked us to please refrain from the use of politics in our discussions. Smile - just a heads up alert.
1. Most of the parking lot and low speed cases of UA are drivers hitting the accelerator instead of the brake, i.e., driver error.
2. There could be some cases here of a sticking accel pedal also. Sometimes my '06 Avalon is very fast starting out as if maybe the pedal is sticking slightly at idle. Hard to tell, and only on certain days.
3. The people driving on the interestates are obviously not doing that while in cruise mode. I don't think it's the floor mats in most cases, other than some fool putting a heavy mat on top of another mat already there. Maybe at a dealership they want to keep the original mat looking new.
4. I think the main problem is going to be electronic interference in the wiring system or ECM coming from a myrid of potential causes, such as the electrical components of the car itself, cell phones, towers, power lines, and circuit boards and ICs. The inputs and innards of the ECM are low voltage and it wouldn't take much to throw them off. I know from times of trying to get my tv fixed when it was an intermittent problem, every electronics tech I ever met has said, "I can't tell what's wrong with it when it's working properly. Call me when it does it again." This is what Toyo is probably struggling with.
Maybe Gilbert and the other smart guys and Toyo engineers need to poke and prod around, creating every possible scenario, then figure out a fail safe solution to each problem, then design a black box to record it and a brake override that works in all cases, no matter what goes wrong. Then the govt will probably have to mandate it on all cars. This could be very, very expensive for Toyo, as well as other manufacturers, because lots of them have this potential problem.
So far, I still love my Avalon. Getting sick of the feeding frenzy in the media, though. More politicians will be piling on soon, I imagine, to distract us from our beloved banksters on Wall Street and the politicians' taking bribe money from them (campaign contributions) in return for passing out our money to them left and right and creating debt that we will never be able to pay back.
Another article on this and the Audi history are here: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704349304575115952186305536.html?m- od=WSJ_hps_LEFTWhatsNews.
1. Most of the parking lot and low speed cases of UA are drivers hitting the accelerator instead of the brake, i.e., driver error.
2. There could be some cases here of a sticking accel pedal also. Sometimes my '06 Avalon is very fast starting out as if maybe the pedal is sticking slightly at idle. Hard to tell, and only on certain days.
3. The people driving on the interestates are obviously not doing that while in cruise mode. I don't think it's the floor mats in most cases, other than some fool putting a heavy mat on top of another mat already there. Maybe at a dealership they want to keep the original mat looking new.
4. I think the main problem is going to be electronic interference in the wiring system or ECM coming from a myrid of potential causes, such as the electrical components of the car itself, cell phones, towers, power lines, and circuit boards and ICs. The inputs and innards of the ECM are low voltage and it wouldn't take much to throw them off. I know from times of trying to get my tv fixed when it was an intermittent problem, every electronics tech I ever met has said, "I can't tell what's wrong with it when it's working properly. Call me when it does it again." This is what Toyo is probably struggling with.
Maybe Gilbert and the other smart guys and Toyo engineers need to poke and prod around, creating every possible scenario, then figure out a fail safe solution to each problem, then design a black box to record it and a brake override that works in all cases, no matter what goes wrong. Then the govt will probably have to mandate it on all cars. This could be very, very expensive for Toyo, as well as other manufacturers, because lots of them have this potential problem.
So far, I still love my Avalon. Getting sick of the feeding frenzy in the media, though. More politicians will be piling on soon, I imagine, to distract us from our beloved banksters on Wall Street and the politicians' taking bribe money from them (campaign contributions) in return for passing out our money to them left and right and creating debt that we will never be able to pay back.
Another article on this and the Audi history are here: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704349304575115952186305536.html?m- od=WSJ_hps_LEFTWhatsNews.
"In the 1980s, Audi became the poster child for Sudden Unintended Acceleration. And in many ways, this vehicle’s SUA problem became the model of how these problems would be investigated by NHTSA, defended by the industry and used as the sine qua non of SUA myth-busting.
More than 1,000 consumers alleged that their Audi 5000 vehicles had accelerated without driver input; 175 had been injured, and four died in SUA crashes. The company denied that there was anything wrong with the vehicle and blamed the problem on shorter than average drivers who did not have much experience driving an Audi. These small, confused drivers had mistakenly depressed the gas pedal when they meant to step on the brake, Audi said. The response was a public relations and marketing nightmare. Audi sales plunged, and the complaints continued.
The Audi 5000 was the subject of an infamous 60 Minutes story, in which the news program attempted to simulate SUA. The broadcast drove Audi sales down further, and the network was heavily criticized for its one-sided story. As the history is often recounted today, NHTSA vindicated Audi and CBS never apologized for maligning the automaker.
However, between 1982 and 1987, Audi launched five recalls to address the problem. The first three attempted to fix what Audi had characterized as the driver-error problem by tweaking the pedal positions. The fifth and final recall for 250,000 1978 to 1987 vehicles added a brake-shift interlock – which requires drivers to depress the brake pedal before shifting out of the Park position.
The fourth recall was probably the most telling about the Audi 5000’s SUA problem. In 1987, Audi recalled 81,000 Audi 5000s from the 1986 and 1987 model years, for worn idle stabilizer units. As Audi explained to its customers: “The idle stabilizer has the purpose of maintaining uniform engine idle speed by regulating air flow under different operating conditions, such as variations in engine temperature, and on/off cycling of the air conditioner or power assist pump. Excessive idle stabilizer wear causes engine idle fluctuations which increase with the usage of the car. If a worn unit is not replaced in a timely fashion, the engine idle could ultimately see-saw so severely that it may surprise a driver who is not acquainted with the vehicle’s condition and fails to apply the brake. Under these circumstances, there is a risk of a collision in a confined space with the possibility of injury.” (In others words, dear driver, it’s still your fault.)
Audi received much of the attention, due in part to victims, who organized and advocated very effectively for themselves."
I have heard there could be possilbe legal implications to a Toyota owner if owner did not have recall fix done, and then was involved in accident. If attorneys could prove your negligence caused/contributed to accident - yes owner would be liable.
Why James Sikes Is a Hybrid Hero
Toyota Hybrid Horror Hoax
Innocent until proven guilty argument, does that apply to his car as well? :confuse:
Sikes is facing/having to answer to the same public outcry & reaction as Toyota is facing/has been facing. Public wants to find the truth. US modern technology use is high, information widely available and travels fast, and that is great! Amatuer researchers are vigilent in their pursuit to get to truth. All is fair, and goes both ways. Sikes must answer questions and address his background. Toyota has problems and they must answer and address as well. Toyota problems can not be overlooked - not with FBI, SEC, Multiple DA lawsuits, individual lawsuits, congressional & senate investigations. former Toyota engineer providing information to FBI, etc. This does not appear to be a witch hunt, as major problems have been brought to light. It's the problems that have been brought to light that have caused all the pursuit against Toyota. And Toyota did not/or could not/or would not easily stomp out each claim/problem as they developed. Would have been easy to implement this strategy, didn't happen. Toyota must accept what they face now, as this strategy approach was their own corporate decision.
Toyota press announcement
http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/limited-service-campaign-for-vvt-154549.aspx
Some information about Service Campaigns/Bulletins
NHTSA accepted Service Campaigns as Safety Recalls even though Service Campaigns are not subject to the provisions of the National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act or the regulations enacted there under. In many cases, Defect Investigations are opened based on an existing Service Campaign or a Technical Service Bulletin. Sometimes, they are closed based on a Service Campaign or a Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) issued during the investigation. Unlike Safety Recalls or Safety Improvement Campaign, NHTSA does not uniformly provide copies of such documents on its Website.
NOTE - Unless the consumer gets access to the Service Campaign or TSB, the consumer will often not get the repair set forward in the Service Campaign or TSB.
NHTSA has no policy in place to ensure that TSBs or Service Campaigns that are used to justify opening or closing an investigation are placed on the agency's website.
Sikes never fooled me one bit. My "lie detector" was all over the place during his interview.
2009 Camry here....The pedal fix recall is the least of my concerns. I wouldn't be interested in the floor mat recall either were it not for the brake override firmware upgrade that comes with it. My appointment is 3/20 for 10,000 mile service and both recalls.
Doubters have asked why Sikes didn't put the car in neutral as a California Highway Patrol dispatcher and an officer repeatedly urged him to do. Sikes said he considered going into neutral but worried he might go into reverse or flip.
"I had never played with this kind of transmission, especially when you're driving, and I was actually afraid to do that," he said Tuesday. "I was afraid to do anything out of the normal."
Toyota has said all Priuses are equipped with a computer system that cuts power to the wheels if the brake and gas pedals are depressed at the same time, as Sikes was doing.
"It's tough for us to say if we're skeptical. I'm mystified in how it could happen with the brake override system," Don Esmond, senior vice president of automotive operations for Toyota Motor Sales, said Thursday.
Raj Rajkumar, an electrical and computer-engineering professor at Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh who studies auto electronics, said the Prius could still have acceleration malfunctions even with the fail-safe system.
Toyota says the fail-safe and the engine are controlled by a central computer that contains two independent microprocessors that communicate and must agree with each other. If there's a disagreement, power would be cut to the wheels.
But Rajkumar said the two engine control unit microprocessors could still receive common erroneous signals from sensors or experience software errors that could cause the throttle and the fail-safe mechanism to malfunction.
Runaway Prius
Even Toyota people are baffled by their Prius Runaway.
"attorney for James Sikes says his client has no intention of suing Toyota"
Looks like somebody has some sense. I guess they figured out it would a hard scam to run with his background exposed. I wonder if the insurance companies that were involved will revisit his prior claims. That was a bunch of money he got from them.
John
The only certainty here is uncertainty. Maybe Sikes discovered that brake override was not working on his particular car. I have seen several reports from 2008 Prius drivers that state they are not able to engage neutral or stop the car using the on-button while driving. However, the opposite has been clearly demonstrated on You Tube and other places. Perhaps they were not created equally after all.
"It would be irresponsible to assert it's a hoax without having facts."
Todd Neibert, the officer who gave instructions to Sikes over a loudspeaker, said he smelled burning brakes when he caught up with the Prius. He examined the car when it came to a stop.
"The brakes were definitely down to hardly any material," he told reporters. "There was a bunch of brake material on the ground and inside the wheels."
Sikes said afterward that he was "embarrassed" by the incident, suggesting that he wished he would have handled it differently. "I'm just embarrassed about that," he said. "You have to be there. That's all I can say."
Kurt Bardella, a spokesman for Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., said Friday that investigators are best positioned to determine if there was a hoax, but no evidence has emerged.
A representative of Issa's office was at a California Toyota dealership when investigators from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and Toyota examined Sikes' blue Prius on Wednesday and Thursday.
"Where are these suggestions coming from?" he said. "It would be irresponsible to assert it's a hoax without having facts."
Joan Claybrook, a former NHTSA administrator, said Sikes' refusal to shift to neutral, is understandable.
"It's such a horrifying experience to be completely out of control," she said. "It's the kind of thing you dream about when you're really upset and you wake up in sweats."
I can tell you where the hoax stories are coming from. Toyota damage control specialists and Toyota worshipers on the web. Toyota has spent the last decade discrediting victims of UA, instead of fixing their problems.
Actually, most are coming from the same media that benefits from a hot story either way. Two days earlier they had a hot runaway story. Today, they have a hot hoax story.
Whatever, polls seem to favor it to be hoax. The only certainty is uncertainty. FWIW, I think it was a hoax.
You are quite correct when you ask if he could disable brake override feature installed on his auto. Brake override is a computer program, and that in and of itself says alot. Any deletion of program would be discovered, as auto secured at CHP site following incident. Auto not given back to Sikes. CHP officer assisting Sikes during incident smelled burning of brakes, and verbal/written news reports indicate this same CHP officer saw brake material on wheels and ground. No CHP officer would risk losing his job by lying.
Gagrice thanks for bringing this fact forward. And then - why didn't brake override work??? Brakes should have stopped Prius quite easily.
Correct! See videos here;
http://www.fox40.com/news/headlines/ktxl-news-jamessikesinvestigated0311,0,46776- 51.story
I suspect one could induce brake wear and smell, without stopping, by adjusting brake pedal pressure accordingly. In other words, ease off the brakes when the car showed signs of stopping. Not too difficult for a con artist. He didn't even have to practice.
Maybe where you live, but everyone doesn't think the way you do.
John
AP news report mentioned by gagrice actually went lots further - Issa who is actually on government committee investigating Toyota states incident will be reviewed fairly. So far case does not appear to be hoax and no claims of such should be made without knowing all the facts. Joan Claybrook who was former head of NHTSA states she can understand Sikes reaction in an emergency. CHP stated they asked Sikes to do news interviews. CHP has found no evidence of a hoax. The Mark Saylor family attorney is now protecting Sikes through the investigation process. Considering the publicity and legal issues this is being very prudent. Anyone, even if they had totally spotless history should have an attorney. Attorney states Sikes is not suing Toyota. Raj Rajkumar, an electrical and computer-engineering professor at Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh who studies auto electronics, said the Prius could still have acceleration malfunctions even with the fail-safe system. Toyota says the fail-safe and the engine are controlled by a central computer that contains two independent microprocessors that communicate and must agree with each other. If there's a disagreement, power would be cut to the wheels. But Rajkumar said the two engine control unit microprocessors could still receive common erroneous signals from sensors or experience software errors that could cause the throttle and the fail-safe mechanism to malfunction.
Here is AP News reporter story link.
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/22826761/detail.html
Toyota/etc is stretching the truth just a little bit when they say the Prius has a brake override system. In reality I doubt that Toyota's USA management even knows the truth of the matter.
Toyota's HSD system is designed so that when the brake is applied, brake light switch closes, the ICE and the 2 MGs go into regenerative braking mode. It is THAT inherent design aspect that Toyota is using in order to say the Prius already has a BTO, Brake/Throttle Override system.
Now, you explain this to me. His brakes are either working or not. And his brakes WERE working. Never any question about that. He eventually used his brakes to slow down (yeah, yeah, with a little help from the parking brake, if anyone buys that). There is no way brakes won't stop a Prius. I can understand a more powerful car but no way with Prius. And they did, when CHP came over, so why not earlier? Explain that if you can.
1. Brake smell and residue and the car never stopped
2. Refusal to press the on/off button
3. Refusal to shift to neutral
4. Could contort himself sufficiently enough to attempt to "right" the stuck pedal
The list goes on. Actually, for me it was his interview, his body language and poor theatrics were a dead give away.
And yes, brakes with brake override should work. But something appears to have happened per reports. CHP reports they have seen no evidence of a hoax. CHP is the law enforcement agency and courts realize legal standing/importance of CHP reports.
Have you read all of the news reports of this particular incident of the actual road terrain to get vehicle stopped? Did you see CHP officers report the three listed things why he felt they were able to get vehicle stopped? Did you know auto at the end was going up a hill???? Vehicle then slowed down climbing this hill. Did you read reports brakes didn't actually work well, vehicle after few/couple attempts was shut off at about 55mph?? Vehicle rolled to stop, with help of what brakes were left??? Did you know cell phone was hand held, so difficult to drive and talk/listen cell phone?? Did you read or see officer reporting he saw bunch of brake material on tires and ground??? Did you read CHP officer report about the brakes??
Gagrice lives there, he is great help to understand that road - I-8.
.
Wouldn't the already "weak" rear braking have been compromised by ABS??
Even if the rear brakes were strong enough to bring the wheels close to stopping ABS would prevent the rear wheels from slowing much more than the front wheels.
The e-brake is not affected by ABS.
Regardles of the history of the driver Prius should not behave as witnessed, unless its computer was tampered with.
Krzys
Claybrook, the former federal administrator, noted that drivers often come under heavy scrutiny for reporting unintended acceleration.
"Attacking the driver has long been the answer that not just Toyota, but the entire industry, has had," she said. "Blaming the driver is old hat."
I hope we have some sharp people looking at this Prius and get to the bottom of the problem. It will look real bad if the NHTSA finds the flaw and not Toyota.
I will just make a few points, no need for me to extend this any further. The way I see it, that quote explains your state of mind. Toyota can do no good for you.
At the end, I know who I am. I have no allegiance to Toyota, heck never even owned a Toyota. I didn't even say Toyota had no fault in all this. I saw those stats, although all automakers had UA, Toyota had them at a higher rate the last few years.
However, when people fail to acknowledge at least some of these cases should be driver errors they lose their credibility with me.
Ditto if you can't say it is likely an 80 year old confused brake pedal with gas pedal when he drives into a laundromat.
Or if you can't see now that Toyota's troubles had so much air time, some Toyota drivers might blame UA in case of an accident.
Or this very last case reeks of suspicion to say the least.
Anyway, I should have learned long ago that nobody change their opinions in these type of discussions. I certainly won't change my opinion that all things considered Toyota is one of the safer car makes to drive so have a nice day bashing Toyota.
The California legal authority agency report still stands for now. Now the investigation reports will be released eventually. I do want to know who did Toyota send as their engineeers?? Were these their own inhouse engineers, or Exponent engineers?? Or were they just Toyota techs?? Who did NHTSA send to investigate?
If Toyota sent their hired gun Exponent engineers and one of their own inhouse down, then I do see a major problem. Think you have seen the multiple links I provided of documented detrimental information about that firm.
I understand what Claybrook is saying. I have read muliple case reports revealing this same response by manufacturers/Toyota. Some have even had witnesses saying car took off. Yet those owners were told it was their fault. Seems to be associated with that states particular laws. If liability laws are weak manufacturers gamble and are quite agressive.
I too hope the huge media publicity, CHP, public watching closely - the real facts of the case bring a fair decision. NHTSA really doesn't have top notch auto engineers though.
Is there another 2-3 word name for what it really is that conveys the idea that the brake is supposed to override the throttle? Or can we just call it brake override?
I-70 Runaway Prius Ramp