Toyota Halts Sales of Popular Models - Accelerator Stuck Problem Recall

sharonkl · February 2010

Are we really getting the truth from Toyota? Seems like Toyota is only one who is doing the safety analysis. Toyota seems to claim information is proprietory information and must be kept secret. Please correct me if I am wrong. But this is what I have been reading in agency, etc. reports seen. Reports seem to say even our government safety agency leaves this investigation soley to auto manufcturer/s to do, and appears to rely/base decisions on information provided from auto manufacturer.

Can we trust Toyota statements, when they are only ones conducting investigative analysis? Would we trust any affected auto manufacturer? Unbiased professionals experts do not appear to involved/present during investigative testing process.

I am sending along this video plus a recent news report since the San Diego accident has been highly reported/mentioned for your review. Just found video of old TV News Report done at time of accident this morning. I have noticed many blogger reports differed. Hope this helps.

NOTE - THIS VEHICLE WAS A DEALERSHIP LOANER VEHICLE WHILE THEIR OWN VEHICLE WAS BEING REPAIRED. Listen again to report to verify.

CHP REPORT STATED VEHICLE WAS BURNED, FEELS CAUSE COULD BE FLOOR MATS, BUT COULD NOT RULE OUT ELECTRONIC THROTTLE SYSTEM OF DRIVE BY WIRE(COMPUTER SENSORS PART OF SYSTEM).

Below is link to You Tube news report made months ago when crash occurred.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZWPItpu2bM

Below is new New York Times Article, Jan 31, 2010 - appears to pretty much same as other news media releases and safety site reports I have seen:

The 911 call came at 6:35 p.m. on Aug. 28 from a car that was speeding out of control on Highway 125 near San Diego.
The caller, a male voice, was panic-stricken: Were in a Lexus ... were going north on 125 and our accelerator is stuck ... were in trouble ... theres no brakes ... were approaching the intersection ... hold on ... hold on and pray ... pray ...
The call ended with the sound of a crash.
The Lexus ES 350 sedan, made by Toyota, had hit a sport utility vehicle, careened through a fence, rolled over and burst into flames. All four people inside were killed: the driver, Mark Saylor, an off-duty California Highway Patrol officer, and his wife, daughter and brother-in-law.
It was the tragedy that forced Toyota, which had received more than 2,000 complaints of unintended acceleration, to step up its own inquiry, after going through multiple government investigations since 2002.
Yet only last week did the company finally appear to come to terms with the scope of the problem  after expanding a series of recalls to cover millions of vehicles around the world, incalculable damage to its once-stellar reputation for quality and calls for Congressional hearings.
With prodding from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, Toyota halted production and sales of eight models, including its top-selling Camry sedan.
And late last week, the government allowed the company to go ahead to try yet another new fix for its vehicles, which it is expected to announce on Monday.
At almost every step that led to its current predicament, Toyota underestimated the severity of the sudden-acceleration problem affecting its most popular cars. It went from discounting early reports of problems to overconfidently announcing diagnoses and insufficient fixes.
_________________

Toyota is not only manufacturer that has problems. These other manufacturers are being very quiet it seems. Wish news media would also report the other manufacturers that seem to rise above all the other auto manufacturers in analysis graph comparing manufacturers over the last ten years.

Good luck everyone.

beachfish2 · February 2010

And yes, you can shift from D to N whenever you like, I've done it to see. It's not recommended to coast out of gear on the road, but people do it save gas on long downhills. Google Georgia Overdrive.

And that TampaBay newspaper article was enlightening.

"Traffic investigators did note that they found two floor mats each on the driver and passenger side of the Camry. One was the original factory floor mat and another a hard plastic floor mat, cut to fit, and placed on top of the factory floor mat, part of which was covering the accelerator pedal."

How is this Toyota's fault? Should they give a test to the buyer before selling a car?

John

mikefm58 · February 2010

You beat me to it, double floor mats??? What an idiot. The next thing I'll read is that the brake pedal wouldn't go down and it's Toyota's fault. Why? Gee, maybe because there were several empty beer bottles on the floor and one rolled underneath the brake pedal. Damn crappy Toyota brake design...*sarcasm*...

This thing has taken on a life of it's own.

sharonkl · February 2010

Just saw many questions regarding brakes, stopping when engine at full throttle.Video - Consumer Reports Auto Engineer does good job I think.- auto comparison great!

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/video-hub/cars/safety/how-to-stop-your-car-du- ring-sudden-acceleration/17188412001/48234862001/

stever · February 2010

Good pic of the fix in Toyota Announces Remedy for Sticking Throttle Recall (Edmunds Daily)

sharonkl · February 2010

Toyota does not have brake override systems on any of their models at present. Toyota will be installing Brake Override Systems on all new 2010 models soon or so they stated. Toyota announced all 2011 models will have Brake Override systems on Nov 25, 2009. Brake Override Systems - when acceleration and brakes conflict - engine forced back to idle.. Unexplained out of control accelleration incident complaints should drastically decrease with these systems. Safety issue seem they will be ressolved too. Anyone looking for new Toyota presently may want to make sure their vehicle is equipped with this system. Personally I'd wait just a little - it's coming quite soon.

sharonkl · February 2010

Well said. Video below from Consumers Report Auto Engineer conducted auto comparison for unexplained full throttle acceleration, comparison of a Toyota model present brakes on that model with no brake override system, and a VW model that does have Brake Override.

Video demonstration of what you just said.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/video-hub/cars/safety/how-to-stop-your-car-du- ring-sudden-acceleration/17188412001/48234862001/

graphicguy · February 2010

sharonki and steve....nice finds. I think the consumer reports video kind of hits the nail on the head with a fundamental flaw in Toyota's system.

Steve....still not getting how the shim "fix" supposedly makes the accelerator pedal safer, since so many have reported even pulling the pedal with their foot, still didn't stop the acceleration.

It's my hope and prayer that Toyota has finally found the correct cause, and the correct fix. I just can't see where they have.

They say "no", it's not an electrical and/or software/firmware issue. Yet, all the evidence points to that.

After seeing the video with the guy testing floormats, and the strength of the accelerator spring, I don't see how Toyota can make any reasonable claim that it's floormats, in any configuration.

wwest · February 2010

"..shift from D to N wheneevr you like.."

Yes, but that doesn't mean, in the end, that the gearbox will disenage from the current gear ratio. The engine/transaxle controlling ECU may not be monitoring the shifter's position switches.

The spring release drum type clutches within the transaxle may not release due to the HEAVY torque loading. The engine is ROARING at WOT while at the same time you have both feet and all the energy you can muster on the brake pedal. This effect might even be unique to FWD and F/awd vehicles.

Try to slip a manual transmission out of gear not using the clutch with a heavy torque loading on the gearbox. Pretty damn difficult...!

On the other hand with no torque loading the gearbox easily slips out of the current gear.

sharonkl · February 2010

Video by Consumer Report Demonstration

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/video-hub/cars/safety/how-to-stop-your-car-du- ring-sudden-acceleration/17188412001/48234862001/

millwood0 · February 2010

"One or two pumps and your brakes are done. You have essential zero vacuum at WOT. "

well, you proved my point: only an incompetent driver will pump his/her brakes in this situation.

Maybe that's Darwinism at its best?

popsavalon · February 2010

After having read so much information that my head hurts, I have a couple of conclusions.
1. It seems that most of the "unintended acceleration" concerns are about wide open throttle. This seems to imply that a stuck throttle would automatically be "wide open", which would not be true in 99% of the situations. I would say that most driving, even on the interstate, is with no more than 1/2 throttle. If the throttle is truly sticking, dealing with a half throttle situation would be much more manageable, certainly not the life or death "wide open throttle". If the engine is going wide open on its own, that is a computer problem that will show back up after the current fixes are in place, and will probably hurt some folks before it is resolved.

2. The floor mat situation is ludicrous. If someone wants to endanger their life by stacking floor mats, or throwing beer cans or apple cores on the floorboard, Toyota should not be responsible. The original equipment floor mats, properly hooked on the hooks that are provided, will not interfere with the accelerator. You should not have to protect folks from stupid. I will not allow my Toyota dealership to grind away portions of my accelerator pedal as part of a smoke and mirrors fix.

sharonkl · February 2010

Below is Consumers Report analysis of statistics comparing auto manufacturers- Seems Toyota is highest. Ford up there too. Good article for information.
http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2009/12/sudden-unintended-acceleration-sua- -analysis-2008-toyota-lexus-ford-gm.html

Below are two good videos actually showing/taking apart/ explaining electronic throttle/pedal system, etc. Reveals how computers are quite involved in acceleration. And most of us all know how computers can get bug/glitzes but then can be rebooted back to normal state, and no trace left of bug/glitz. Difficult to get to cause of problem. Seems auto systems do not record many malfunctions within electronics. Excellent info.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHotbtd7HJA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnFp2yLBnNQ

This is fairly good article about both types of pedals. Also has article of the fix it appears. I have not validated if this is the actual fix though. Still is excellent
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/exclusive-ttac-takes-apart-both-toyota-gas-peda- ls/

gagrice · February 2010

only an incompetent driver will pump his/her brakes in this situation.

All the driving courses I was sent to with the phone company, said just the opposite. You should pump your brakes in an emergency stop to retain good control. Especially on slippery surfaces. How many of these cases were on ice or snow? Slamming on your brakes on ice is a sure way to go into a spin. I would be willing to bet I have spent as much or more time driving on ice than most of the posters. As shown by the CR video, VW has mastered the system of over riding runaway acceleration. Toyota just needs to get their act together and install it in all the DBW vehicles they have sold. If they cannot figure out how, get a hold of VW engineers.

wwest · February 2010

"..only an incompetent driver..."

Or one with lots of experience...

If I pressed on the brake pedal, HARD, and it didn't seem to immediately "take" then my natural reaction would be to try again. Maybe out of the experience of having master cylinder failures...

millwood0 · February 2010

"Toyota is highest. Ford up there too."

why don't we hear about those Ford accidents and unsafe Ford vehicles if they are as unsafe as the toyota?

"most of us all know how computers can get bug/glitzes "

isn't there a difference between "can get buggy" and "will get buggy"?

millwood0 · February 2010

"my natural reaction would be to try again."

well, that's the difference between an experienced driver and an incompetent driver: the incompetent one will get overtaken by his "natural" reaction and end up in a ditch somewhere.

skiguy02920 · February 2010

you may be 'old school'. You should NEVER pump the brakes on ANY of the new vehicles with ABS. Totally defeats the purpose.

ski

gagrice · February 2010

Ford was second to Toyota. Toyota still accounts for more accidents and deaths from SUA than all the other automakers combined, over the last 10 years. I agree that Ford should be looking at this and installing some type of brake over-ride. People will be more inclined to reporting these incidents now that it is so public.

gagrice · February 2010

Have you ever driven a 4 wheel drive vehicle on ice with ABS. They disable it now when you go into 4 wheel drive as it causes problems with braking on slippery surfaces. Before that you would touch the brakes on ice and all four wheels lock up sending you out of control. I am not a fan of ABS or any of the other traction control devices. Talk about a waste of money. I may be old school but have 51 years without an accident. Much due to the training the phone company gave us when I went to work for them.

stever · February 2010

only an incompetent driver will pump his/her brakes in this situation.

Not all all. I bet it happens a hundred thousand times a day just on the morning commute in LA.

Just think about it. Trying to merge, Darwin in front of you decides to slow down on the ramp, so you have to brake hard. Then you try to merge and the Darwin in the middle lane moves over to the right, just where you wanted to merge. You jam on the brakes and then floor it once behind him to pass.

Rinse and repeat - you know how LA traffic flows go from a standstill to 50 and then everyone hits the brakes again?

Two quick stops would be equivalent to pumping.

beachfish2 · February 2010

I like this one...

"My 2008 Prius accelerated almost out of control. I was merging onto an expressway when the accelerator seemed to have a life of its own and took off at an incredibly high rate of speed"

I might almost possibly be tempted, maybe, to buy a Prius if they would guarantee that it would go at "an incredibly high rate of speed." I have yet to see one do that.

You know, maybe Toyota drivers are just less honest about losing control of the car and they blame it on the car. Who knows, there aren't any hard facts - like with pictures and evidence and stuff. Just opinions so far from what I've seen.

Maybe more Toyotas are sold to people who think the "perfect car" will almost drive itself so they become complacent. Surely we've seen lots of folks post how disturbed they are about their perfect car being flawed.

John

isellhondas · February 2010

Why are any of those things"bad"?

sharonkl · February 2010

My understanding is brake override systems are not installed at present. Below is article Toyota made in announcement - will start installing brake overrride system all models 2011. Have seen rumors may put in sooner, but not confirmed. Present pressure of bad publicity may be forcing Toyota to install sooner.

http://wot.motortrend.com/6628386/recalls/toyota-to-include-brake-override-funct- ion-on-global-vehicles-by-2011/index.html

Below is good explanation/writeup about unexplained acceleration over the years. Good article for info. This site spokesman is quoted in newspapers alot.
http://www.safetyresearch.net/2009/07/20/sudden-acceleration/

Brake override systems are flashed into auto computer system. Flashing does not take long to do. Once Toyota develops and is available, then costs would be minimal for Toyota. Owner wanting flash may pay if not a warranty covered benefit - and may cost you. Range could be from minimal-$800+.

This brake override system could be soon too????

greennovice · February 2010

I'm not sure where or when it was. I saw it in a report this morning on CBS. The link is:
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6165528n&tag=cbsnewsVideoArea.0

sharonkl · February 2010

Yes, Consumers Report Video of auto comparison does indeed reveal problems with stopping full throttle acceleration between Toyota that has no brake override and VW that does. I am not really a fan of VW.

But Brake Override System is a must!!!

isellhondas · February 2010

" I am not really a fan of VW"

Me either.

As reliable as VW's are, it probably wouldn't work when needed!

goldsuv · February 2010

I would think that VW has that brake system because the CEO of VW, Dr Martin Winterkorn has a phd in physics and was director of Quality Assurance for VW and the CEO of Toyota(until June 2009) was a marketing man whose claim to fame was cutting Toyota cafeteria costs(http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aGEj8tQXXupw&refer=- redirectoldpage).The new CEO of Toyota also has a business rather than a technical background which is absolutely needed to reach their goal of cutting the cost of manufacturing a car in half.(http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aGEj8tQXXupw&refer=- redirectoldpage)

hackattack5 · February 2010

The Obama administration's top transportation official sharply criticized Toyota Motor Corp. on Tuesday for dragging its feet on safety concerns over its gas pedals, suggesting the automaker was "a little safety deaf" to mounting evidence of problems.

Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood told The Associated Press that federal safety officials had to "wake them up" to the seriousness of the safety issues that eventually led Toyota to recall millions of popular brands like Camry and Corolla. That included a visit to Toyota's offices in Japan to convince them to take action.

greennovice · February 2010

Here is the link. It was a story on CBS morning show about a 2005 Sienna in a crash in 2008.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6165528n&tag=cbsnewsVideoArea.0

revit · February 2010

Very interesting, even Toyota models not involved in the recall suffered a plunge in January.

Is there fear the recalls will continue to grow and broaden to other Toyota models once they find the true underlining problem for the sudden accelerations?

Toyota Sales Plunge, Even Those Not In The Recall

explorerx4 · February 2010

i think the unstackable mat feature is a Toyota exclusive. :surprise:

revit · February 2010

I like their new tag line.....

Toyota - Suddenly Moving Forward

explorerx4 · February 2010

after watching that C-R video, I decided to try putting my car into neutral while driving.
I was surprised that I needed to depress the button on the floor shift lever to get it out 'D'. I never thought about it and automatically press the button when going to into reverse or park. I definitely learned something.

revit · February 2010

Count Apple Inc. co-founder Steve Wozniak among Toyota Motor Corp. car owners who say their vehicles accelerate unintentionally.

Wozniak's 2010 Toyota Prius can unintentionally accelerate to as much as 97 mph when he uses cruise control to increase his speed, he said. Toyota and the U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration haven't responded to his complaints in the past two months on what may be a software-related glitch, he said.

"It's scary when it happens," Wozniak, 59, said from San Jose. "I've had trouble getting both the government safety agency and getting Toyota to listen to me."

Apple co-founder says his Toyota accelerates unintentionally

sharonkl · February 2010

NEWS RELEASE - NEW RIGHT NOW -
Everyone - this is not good for Toyota. These below News Releases just hit now. I was listening to CNN - and they flashed across the screen.

Government Safety Agency Secretary Mr. LaHood publicly did interview with AP & claims Toyota stalled doing anything. US government had to fly to Japan to make them do recall. LaHood claims NHTSA doing investigation regarding electronics. CNN had statement from LaHood DHTSA is not done with Toyota. LaHood claims this is huge safety issue!!!

During interview - once again claims made auto accident San Diego off duty CHP officer and family with 911 tapes seemed to lead to final actions. I have again enclosed You Tube TV news report of accident at time of accident. Refer below

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100202/ap_on_bi_ge/us_toyota_recall_lahood

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/02/business/main6167391.shtml

http://www.ctv.ca/generic/generated/static/business/article1453747.html

http://www.japantoday.com/category/business/view/us-transportation-secretary-lah- ood-says-toyota-slow-to-respond

This below is the TV News about the accident.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZWPItpu2bM

Oh no!!!

iluvmysephia1 · February 2010

in all it's "in-your-face" extreme anxiety and hysteria got to everyone that heard and/or read about it. Then you get to thinking "what did these people do to deserve this? That must've been horrible for them."

And it must have been horrible. Pray.

"Nothing's wrong at all. In fact, I've ordered the remaining boilers be lit and we're going to be picking up even more speed." - Captain Smith of the ill-fated Titanic

Captain Smith apparently really wanted to get to NY-after all, he was retiring right after that inaugural Titanic trip to NYC. And most car accidents happen within what is it, 25 miles of our homes? :surprise:

sharonkl · February 2010

BMW, VW, Porsche, Audi - many European manufacturers have, also GM had problems and now they have on many vehicles & their complaints way down to rest of those no real issues. Ford presently does not have - & their complaints seem to rise above the test too. I thought Chrysler was higher also- could be wrong here.

Brake override systems are excellent last resort failsafe when bake and accelerator in conflict.

Many arguments can be made. But FACT IS THIS IS SAFETY ISSUE. HUMAN LIFE FIRST. WE ALL WANT THIS. PROBLEM IN AND OF ITSELF CREATES HIGH EXPOSURE SAFETY RISK. When evaluating safety system implementations - human error must always be factored in.

gagrice · February 2010

The Woz has problems with his Prius. I am still curious why the Prius avoided this latest recall. There are many reports of unwanted acceleration with the 2010 Prius model.

Listening to a local talk radio show this morning. The host asked for callers with Toyotas to call and give their feelings about the recalls. A local dealer called in. He said they had not had many people worried about UA. He said most of their complaints are from hybrid owners. Many trying to get them to take them back for erratic behavior. I thought that was a strange admission from a car dealer.

Time for my prediction. Who will Obama name as Toyota Czar, to whip them into submission?

sharonkl · February 2010

This is great you practiced. Wow, you have to do alot to get in N. Good you tried. I did too. Since I haver 2006 RAV4 and am not under recall I want to know what to do. My son already told me I needed to practice.

Thanks for responding. Now we just have to do it if/when emergency arises. I hope we don't have this emergency.

revit · February 2010

Wow, what a shocker...get ready for this whole thing to snowball...

Everyone - this is not good for Toyota. These below News Releases just hit now. I was listening to CNN - and they flashed across the screen.

Government Safety Agency Secretary Mr. LaHood publicly did interview with AP & claims Toyota stalled doing anything. US government had to fly to Japan to make them do recall. LaHood claims NHTSA doing investigation regarding electronics. CNN had statement from LaHood DHTSA is not done with Toyota. LaHood claims this is huge safety issue!!!

During interview - once again claims made auto accident San Diego off duty CHP officer and family with 911 tapes seemed to lead to final actions. I have again enclosed You Tube TV news report of accident at time of accident.

revit · February 2010

This just gets better by the minute:

Toyota Resisted Safety Fix - Transportation Secretary Says Company Was "Safety Deaf"; It Took Official Trip to Japan to Spur Action; Fine Pending

Guess Toyota has no intent on "Taking a Pause" until they were pushed...give me break, and Toyota says they care about the customer. :confuse:

There goes the residual value on Toyotas.... :sick:

explorerx4 · February 2010

it's a good idea to figure out how to get into Neutral, no matter what vehicle you drive, especially if you have a shift lever that is not on the steering column.
I never would have done it, without a discussion like this one.

gagrice · February 2010

I'm still waiting for someone with an ES350 to try and shift into neutral at 120 MPH with the throttle stuck wide open. Any other test will not duplicate what the CHP officer was facing in that Lexus headed downhill at 120 MPH with brakes throwing out flames from under the car. I see a lot of armchair quarterbacks, claiming they would have done this or that. My Toyota does not have a history of that kind of behavior. But it is good to know what the options are in case it ever happens. I think brakes that deteriorate after 2 pumps are a hazard in themselves. Sounds like another cost cutting move.

hackattack5 · February 2010

Breaking news in Cincy

"Toyota car owners in Cincinnati asked a judge Tuesday to force the auto maker to pay their lease and car loan payments until the company fixes a problem with sticking accelerator pedals.

In a class action lawsuit filed in Hamilton County, the car owners also criticized Toyota's planned fix for the accelerator problem and demanded the company stop selling cars until it comes up with a better solution.

deltheking · February 2010

Some Anti-Toyota agenda here !!! :sick:
Dont worry,Toyota will be back soon...Its sales will pick up from the next month onwards as they are starting production again on Feb 8th... 30 years of quality is not lost by this 1 event which may/can /maybe occur...99% of Toyota owners have no problem... And the media projects the 1% and forgets about the remaining 90 %
Sorry buddy !! Toyota failing--not gonna happen . Wishful thinking at its best !! :shades:

gagrice · February 2010

Wozniak's 2010 Toyota Prius can unintentionally accelerate to as much as 97 mph when he uses cruise control to increase his speed, he said. Toyota and the U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration haven't responded to his complaints in the past two months on what may be a software-related glitch, he said.

"It's scary when it happens," Wozniak, 59, said from San Jose. "I've had trouble getting both the government safety agency and getting Toyota to listen to me."

Wozniak made the comments after a Web log posted on the CNET News Web site reported he spoke about his Prius's cruise control at the Discovery Forum 2010 in San Francisco.

"The reason that my case is important and urgent is that it is electronic. I can cause it totally under cruise control without a foot touching the accelerator pedal," Wozniak said. "Is my software bug also some code that is in the other Priuses and related to the deadly problem?"

What weight will this carry in the heart of Prius country. It only took one celebrity to launch the Prius. Will another bring the Prius back to earth? If Toyota will snub a $billionaire that owns four Prius, no wonder an average Joe gets the treatment they get at the dealership.

sharonkl · February 2010

More just keeps hitting NEWS ALERTS CNN - latest that just came across couple of minutes ago seems letter has been sent by NHTSA to Toyota CEO's regarding misinformation and/or conflict of information- mseems Toyota made statement wasn't pedal * another statement it is pedal. Toyota responded they are investigating. CNN reports NHTSA considering penalty fine(civil?). CTS CEO claims pedal is quite good- only slight defect occasionally - does not feel product whole of UA. Then was something I think from Toyota reiterating they are out to help customers. Toyota claiming they reacted properly to complaints.

Sadly this last statement doesn't go along with all the sequence of events & articles since this started. I found DHSTA claimed right from beginning they had to make Toyota to do recall. This occurred after Toyota made claim DHSTA had found no problems. DHSTA was furious and did public news media interview.

Lots of turf protection appears to now be going on. Government investigations developing/already set.

I have a headache.

revit · February 2010

Talk about the perfect storm brewing...can't wait for the next recall :shades:

mnf · February 2010

Just Curious Revit what do you drive ??

MNF

Toyota Halts Sales of Popular Models - Accelerator Stuck Problem Recall

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