Jeep Wrangler

twylie · June 2004

an often overlooked (inexpensive) option is to swap to SE axles. If you're willing to consider the Super 35 to get your locker and added strength, this is another option to consider. All 4 cyl Wranglers come with the 30/35 axle combo, but they're geared to 4.10. These axles are dirt cheap in the junkyards and you can usually swap back your axles and not be out more than a couple hundred bucks at most. If you can find a low mileage SE, you could be into a Super35 and 4.10 gearing for around $14-1500 in parts. The axles are bolt on, just bleed the brakes and drive. The Super kit is more invloved mechanically since it invloves opening up the axles.

Yet another option is to pick up a spare set of axle shafts for the 35 and carry the fluid/tools to do a trail repair. If you're on 33's and easy on the throttle, the 35 may hold out longer than expected.

Many options to consider and cost out, I know. I've tried not to make any quick decisions on my Jeep and have been fortunate to not have any significant regrets. Took me a year to buy tires (trXus), and almost 3 to buy a lift (OME), but the wheeling time in stock form gave me a much better appreciation for what was limiting me. I think it probably made me a better driver in that I had to pick better lines and be more careful. I spent the first chunk of mod money on skidplates and have worn the powdercoat off in quite a few places, being new to offroading and unlifted. As a Jeep owner, it's very tempting to buy the "sexy" mods first.

Your Jeep looks great (checked out the pics on the other site) and your family all had big grins! Sounds like you and Tom had a blast and you're hooked now!!!

-twylie

tsjay · June 2004

Trey gave you some good advice about wheelin' stock for a while, and if it weren't for those stupid 3.07 gears, I would be telling you that too. But, you DO have the 3.07 gears, and something DOES need to be done about them. Sometimes you need to go SLOW, REAL SLOW, and with those gears and 31" tires, even in four low and first gear, you are going too fast.

A beefed up 35 would probably be OK for the type of wheelin' you and I would be doing, so maybe Trey's suggestion about an SE rear axle would be good. You would need to check the price of that option against that of having a Super 35 kit installed on your current axle and regearing.

All I can say is, "Thank God I learned about the Dana 44 before ordering Thelma Jane!"

A LOT of my Jeep buds are on Dana 35s and wish they had the 44. Most of them just weren't aware of the need for a 44. A good percentage of them never thought they would do any real off roading.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

mac24 · June 2004

The Super 35 conversion brings the D35 very close to the equivalent strength of the D44, plus it includes either a Detroit or ARB locker.

Axle tubes on the D35 and D44, as supplied for the Wrangler, are the same. The real weak points on the D35, when compared to the D44, are the spider gears (which are replaced in the Super 35 with the lockers). The r&p is slightly smaller, as is the housing, but if your style of driving is likely to endanger them a D60 is probably a better choice.

I've posted in the past where the Super 35 kit with the ARB (without the compressor) can be obtained for less than $1000, and with the Detroit for less than $800, so I'd better not do it again! (Hint: Use the search).

Good advice from both Tom and Twylie.

tsjay · June 2004

Mac:

What most commonly breaks on the Dana 35, from all the reading I have done on the various Jeep sites, is the axle shaft. The only Dana 35 failure that I saw firsthand was an axle shaft. That guy, though, was a breakage waiting to happen... he had a locker and was running 35" tires with the Dana 35!

I don't doubt what you say about the spider gears being a weak point, but so are the axle shafts.

Non-Smoking, Extremely Good Looking, Senior Citizen Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

goducks1 · June 2004

So are they gonna give you a discount rate for Turkey Bay now?

mac24 · June 2004

Yes, you're right. I was posting about the Super 35, and in my mind the the weaker axle shafts of the D35 were a given. I should have said, "The other weak points on the D35, when compared to the D44................."

Mea culpa, I worded it badly.

:--)

P.S. I agree with you about his D35 with 35s and a locker setup. It was never if it would break, but when!

gsyoung1960 · June 2004

I'm looking to get my first Jeep. Considering the Sport, or the Sahara mainly because I prefer the hard doors. It seems as though the Sport is nice that it offers more colors, but I like most of the features on the Sahara. Because of that, I'll probably get a Sahara, since I think it'd be more expensive the custom build a Sport with most of the Sahara features.

One concern, neither come standard with Anti-lock brakes. Only the Unlimited offers it standard. When I go to the dealers, nobody has a Jeep with Anti-lock brakes. Is there a reason for this? Are they really needed on a vehicle this small.

Any advice would be greatly apprectiated!

P.S. I'll probably be one of those highway drivers that seldom uses what the Jeep is made for... off roading.

tsjay · June 2004

Welcome to Edmunds Jeep Wrangler!

Unless something has changed that I am not aware of, you can still get the full metal doors on an SE model also. (You stated your reason for the Sport or Sahara selection to be that you wanted full doors.)

The drawback to the SE model is the four cylinder engine, which leaves the Jeep pretty badly underpowered for highway driving. If you will only use the Jeep around town or on the trails, then the four banger should not be a problem.

The antilock brake feature is something that people feel differently about. I don't think it's a big deal, but some people swear by them. Partly, I would say, it depends on where you live. If you would be driving on much ice or snow, then it might be good to have ABS.

Good luck in your shopping. Jeeps are a BLAST! You won't be disappointed if you are looking for FUN.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

mac24 · June 2004

Tom is correct about the full doors and the four cylinder engine, although the new 2.4 is reputed to have better power and fuel consumption than the previous 2.5.

ABS doesn't come as standard on the Unlimited. In fact it's unavailable due to the D44 rear axle. If anything, the short wheelbase of the Wrangler make it more of a candidate for ABS than for longer vehicles which are less likely to swap ends under panic braking. ABS allows you to steer while attaining maximum braking effort, but it won't stop you in a shorter distance on a dry road. Think of it like your seat belts. You rarely get the full benefit from them, but when you do you're very glad you had them.

ABS is a several hundred dollar option and most people would rather save the money to spend it on something else. Lack of customer demand is why you see so few ABS equipped Wranglers on the dealer lots.

Finally, I hear rumors that the Sahara will be dropped soon. Have a look at the Rocky Mountain Edition that's currently available. Looks like another version of the Sahara to me, with a D44 and rather nice Alcoa "Tomb Raider" style wheels fitted as standard.

dchristo1 · June 2004

Well you don't drive much like a senior citizen..

After all, age is a state of mind and I think Jeeps keep us young at heart.

Congrats.

David

I am also looking at the super 35 kits as an option.

gsyoung1960 · June 2004

"Rocky Mountain Edition"? I don't see anything like that on the www.jeep.com site. Thanks for the views on ABS as well.

As for the hard doors, I'm leaning toward the bigger 4.0L engine... just think the responiveness will be more what I'm looking for. I'll look at the SE as well.

mac24 · June 2004

http://www.jeep.com/wrangler/models/rocky_mountain.html

bamatazz · June 2004

hey guys, sorry it took me so long to post back. Been a busy week as you can guess.
STEVE.. $10.00 a pound for BBQ pork? My customers would faint if they paid that. We are the cheapest of any BBQ restaurant in our area.
Ducks.. We have a Memphis style BBQ, Tomato sauce based with spices.
  Sorry guys cant FEDEX.. that just gives all of you guys a reason to visit BAMA "The Heart of Dixie"
  too much rain around here to take top off TAZZ, Hopefully maybe on Friday.
  TOM, glad to see your ok, Saw your area got some bad weather up there.

welcome to all the newbies...keep posting!!

Keep Jeepin!!
BamaTazz

gman1259 · June 2004

Get the Sport in the color you like. I got a Sport with most of the options I Sahara has and spent less. I was looking at the Sahara for the same reasons you are and thought differently after doing some research.

tsjay · June 2004

If you decide that you want to forego the ABS, then I suggest that you get the AAS package. This is a KILLER bargain! For $850 you get the real nice Ravine alloy wheels, 30" tires, gas shocks, and... A DANA 44 REAR AXLE! The Dana 44 alone is worth more than the $850.

You can't get a Dana 44 AND ABS, so you need to decide how important ABS is to you. But, if you decide not to get ABS, then by all means, get the AAS package.

Why would the Dana 44 be important if you are not going to off road your Jeep? Well, for one thing, you actually might want to "wheel" that puppy some day. I never planned on off roading Thelma Jane, but I go every weekend now! Also, should you ever want to sell that Jeep (can't imagine that, unless it was so you could get ANOTHER Wrangler), the Dana 44 could make it easier to sell. I don't think there would be anyone who would refuse to buy a Jeep because it had a stronger rear differential, but there ARE people who would refuse to buy a Jeep if it DIDN'T have the 44.

Like I said, all of this depends on your decision about ABS. ABS eliminates the possibility of getting the Dana 44.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

twylie · June 2004

I saw some info that discussed '05 options, etc. and on the Sport, it appears that they may offer an alternative in addition to the AAS (30" tire/wheel) package. There may be a new "Braking and Traction package" which would include D44 axle, Trac-Loc, and rear discs, but forego the wheels and shocks". For someone that expected to replace the wheels and do a lift, this may be a nice alternative to to old AAS package alone.

-twylie

gsyoung1960 · June 2004

Sounds like the Rocky edition is alot like a Sahara, but the Dana 44 rear axile. I'm curious how the pricing compares.

drosketer · June 2004

Happy Birthday old man! ;-) Congrats on going smoke-free for 5 whopping months too.

Man, when I do manage to drive out to Kentucky you can bet I'll be letting you know. I'd looooove to try out Turkey Bay one day.

Andrew

mac24 · June 2004

It appears to be a $1300 add on to the 'X' model.

Seems like a good value when you consider you get the D44, 30" wheel package with Alcoa Tomb Raider wheels and full size spare, Rubicon rocker guards, two tone Sahara type seats, fog lights, tow hooks, and a radio/cd with the overhead speakers.

dwrestle · June 2004

What kind of stuff can a totally stock Jeep Wrangler take. I figure they are better than anything else even just stock, but on that show on Spike TV(great channel) Trucks!(great show) they turned that Jeep Wrnagler X into project Tomb Raider.

If you didn't see it, it was very cool and bad looking, it looked like it could take anything you could dish out to it, but the host of the show said that if you want to do serious weekend 4 wheeling you will need more stuff put on it.

I kind of thought he was nuts because it was an extra 4in off the ground had 35in tires on it, lots of new hard metal to protect it better, and all kinds of stuff. I think you could do just about anything with that Jeep.

So I was just wondering what you guys thought about it.

mac24 · June 2004

You have to realize that, rather than a technical show to demonstrate the best way to improve a Jeep, it's merely a thinly disguised infomercial to promote the products used. In fact, it could almost be said that it was a good example of what not to do with your Wrangler!

For instance, 35" tires on a D35 axle. A 4" lift with no thought given to driveshaft length and angles. Nothing was done to improve the braking in any way, despite an increase in tire size by six inches. No change was made to the original gearing. To top it all, the original suspension points were cut off so the original suspension couldn't be re-fitted in the future. This was just a bunch of product thrown at a vehicle with no consideration given to the overall result.

Basically, a kid who just got his licence was given a Wrangler with handling, steering, and braking that's significantly reduced from standard. He did however, get a Jeep that was ideally suited to cruising slowly around a mall parking lot. Cool and bad looking it may have been, but it was actually a lot less capable as an all round vehicle than the original Jeep they started with!

Which brings us to the fact the standard Wrangler is remarkably capable, both on and off road. It's only when you've mastered your off road skills in an unmodified Jeep that you can take real advantage of mods to the tires and suspension.

Probably not what you wanted to hear, but I will say that they fitted a nice winch and seats.

;--)

tsjay · June 2004

A stock Wrangler TJ is an awesome off road vehicle. Get the right kind of tires on it for the type of wheelin' you will be doing, air down the tires, disconnect the front sway bar, and that puppy will go places that will just blow your mind.

It takes a pretty good driver to make that stock Jeep the limiting factor: it will be the driver that limits where a stock Jeep can go, not the Jeep, until that driver gets some pretty good skills.

(In other words, I agree wholeheartedly with what Mac said above.)

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

dchristo1 · June 2004

I agree with Tom beacuse thats what we did last weekend...

Just wheeled a realtively stock jeep,dana 30 and 35 with 3.07 gears no lockers,lift. The only mod was 31" MTR'S, around Turkey Bay with Tom and lived to tell about it.I did have to bypass some "interesting" spots.

It is incredible what you can do in a Jeep.

Highly suggest a Dana 44 rear with the 3.73 gearing or just buy a Rubi and be done messing around.

David

div2 · June 2004

I strongly agree with Mac and Tom; DON'T start modifying your Jeep until you train the "Nut behind the wheel". The same thing happens with BMWs and such- Guys/gals fall all over themselves to swap wheels/springs/dampers/anti-roll bars, and whatnot BEFORE they have learned to utilize the full capability of the OEM setup. Learn to wheel(or drive on the track) and then-and only then- start modding...

dwrestle · June 2004

I would like to get a Jeep not sure if it will be a Wrangler, but it won't be a Grand Cherokee(to bad on gas). What kind of tires(radial please) are just great on every kind of terrain you could come across in Missouri(which has a little bit of everything), that I could put on any Jeep, and make it a great all rounder. I currently don't have a vehicle, but my parents own a Grand Cherokee, and the tires we have, the tread is only a little better that our Oldsmobile Nienty Eight's tires. I think we have mainly BF Goodrich tires and one Good Year, they came with the Jeep.

mac24 · June 2004

I didn't think you'd like the answers! :--)

BFG ATs (All Terrains) or BFG MTs (Mud Terrains), depending on how much time you spend on the road, are some of the best all rounders.

However, just like there's no perfect food for every meal, there's no perfect tire for every surface.

If gas mileage is going to be a major consideration you probably shouldn't be looking at Jeeps, (except maybe the promised diesel Liberty).

dwrestle · June 2004

Our Grand Cherokee gets 16.1 average miles per gallon which is what I would expect from the V8, but we got a 1999 4.0, my uncle has a 88 wrangler with the 4.2, it will stomp our 4.0 in speed, cause he has done stuff to it, and he gets 15 miles per gallon. Also is ther anything to make these things sound awesome.

mac24 · June 2004

I think it rather depends on your definition of 'awesome'!

dwrestle · June 2004

I like the sound of a Chevy 4.3 Vortec with dual exhaust so an 8 cylinder isn't the only thing that sounds good. I just wonder who makes the best sounding muffler, and dual exhaust for the Jeep 4.0 Inline 6.

dwrestle · June 2004

Just tell me what the best Jeep aftermarket product book is and where I can find it.

mac24 · June 2004

Just as I can't tell you the 'best' mods, tires or exhaust, I can't tell you which is the 'best' aftermarket catalog.

Try http://www.google.com to bring up at least twenty specialized Jeep suppliers. You can also easily find .wav files of the different exhaust notes.

You youngsters are supposed to be a step ahead of us old guys when it comes to internet stuff.

dwrestle · June 2004

There is no telling what kind of bad stuff could pop up on you while you are searching. Yeah I am sorry to be flooding the board with questions. I don't want to do much to a Jeep when I get one, just put something on it to make it sound good, maybe a brush guard, a better top, and some good tires. Anything else I would buy would be cosmetic or utilitarian. Oh and a good sound system.

mtngal · June 2004

Happy belated birthday, Tom! I've been kind-of busy recently and not spending much time on the computer. Plus I managed to pick up some nasty spy-ware thing at work (my IS department is NOT amused, and yes, it was while I was using a search engine to research something) that opened up my computer to a worm and so on. It's taken the fun out of being on the internet.

Paul - did you ever put in XM into your Wrangler? I'm thinking of getting a Roady and an extra antenna so I can use one unit with both vehicles. If so, where did you end up putting the antenna and do you have any photos of your install?

Tires - I really liked the Bridgestone Dueller ATs when I first got them. They were really "sticky" and did pretty well off-road, while still being quiet on road. They haven't worn well - now that the tread is getting down they don't stick as well and they hydroplane (something Wranglers do anyway). They are not for hard core off-roading - they don't have good enough tread. I thought about the Dueller MTs but I figure they would be great off-road, but noisy on road, and my Wrangler is my cold weather daily driver.

mac24 · June 2004

Just a small point, but Wranglers don't hydroplane any more (or less) than any other vehicle.

Hydroplaning is entirely a function of the tires. It's the tread design, the size of the contact patch, and the speed of the vehicle that define when hydroplaning will occur.

Speed actually has the biggest influence under normal conditions. For instance, you could drive a car on racing slicks (no tread) at 5 mph through standing water without any problem. At 100 mph with reasonable tread you probably would have problems.

The best advice is that the worse the tread on your tires and/or the wetter the road, the slower you should go. Basically, if you're hydroplaning, you're going too fast!!!

:--)

greta · June 2004

Mac24? ... hoping you might academically clarify the difference in the various axle ratios on the Wranglers??? I have a '04 Sahara with the Dana 44 Rear, and I think ? the 3.73:1 Axle Ratio, w/ a 4.0L, I-6 engine w/ manual transmission. ? How does that compare with those other Axle Ratios like the 3.07:1, 4.56:1, 4.11:1 ??? As I've got the package I've got; I would hope it is the "right ratio,"? though as I read these earlier messages, I wonder why others consider changing their gears? Are other ratios all the 'stiffer, smoother, softer'? Thanks for all your informative insight. Always interesting & educational. Greta

mac24 · June 2004

I'll try and keep it simple. First thing to remember is that lower ratios are higher numerically, i.e. 4.10:1 is lower than 3:73:1. Second, all of the ratios supplied by DC are well suited for their particular engine/tire size package, with an emphasis on good fuel consumption.

The reason that people usually want to change the final drive ratio is because they've fitted larger diameter tires. Changing the tire size changes the gearing, so a change of the axle gears is in order to return things to the way they were before.

A larger diameter tire travels further each time it rotates and is harder to turn. It also has to be rotated more slowly for any given road speed than the tire it replaced. Think of riding a bicycle with a tiny rear tire. Each time you rotated the pedals you would only travel a short distance but the pedals would be really easy to turn, and to go fast you'd have to pedal like crazy. Now think of having a huge rear tire. You'd travel a much longer distance for each turn of the pedals, and they'd be really hard to turn, but you wouldn't have to turn them very quickly to go fast.

So, a higher final drive ratio like 3.07:1 gives an engine that has to turn a little slower for any given speed, so giving better fuel economy, but it take a little longer to get up to speed. A lower final drive ratio like 3.73:1 has the engine spinning a little faster, and because it's easier to turn it accelerates faster too, but uses more gas to do so.

When deciding on the actual ratios to use, engineers have to take into account the torque and horsepower the engine produces throughout its rpm range. Therefore the 2.4 gets different gearing to the 4.0. There are also physical limitations to size of the gears that can be fitted into the axles being used. I think that 4.88 is the limit for the D30.

I hope that's a little clearer than mud. Just ask again if I'm not making sense.

tsjay · June 2004

Thanks to both of you for the belated birthday wishes.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

tsjay · June 2004

Mac did a nice job of explaining gear ratios, so I'm not sure if I can add anything to what he said that will help you, but I'll add my two cents anyway.

The gear ratio is the number obtained by dividing the number of teeth on the gear that has more teeth by the number of teeth on the gear that has fewer teeth. These two gears are meshed together, so for each rotation of the bigger gear, the smaller gear will rotate more times. For example, if the larger gear has 40 teeth, and the smaller gear has 10 teeth, then you would have a 4.00 gear ratio. The smaller gear (and the shaft that it is attached to) would have to turn four times to get one turn of the larger gear. There's probably no such set of gears with those numbers of teeth, but I just used easy numbers to work with.

OK, so an axle ratio is the number of teeth on the ring gear (the larger gear) divided by the number of teeth on the pinion gear. The pinion gear is connected to the drive shaft, so it is the pinion gear that makes the ring gear turn when the vehicle is under power. The higher the numerical ratio, the more turns of the driveshaft (and, therefore, the higher the engine RPM) for each turn of the ring gear. Every revolution of the ring gear causes one full rotation of the tires on that axle. So, for the distance traveled when the tire makes one revolution, you get more revolutions of the engine as the gear ratio gets numerically higher. This is why the numerically higher gear ratio gives better acceleration: the egine can turn over more times for the same distance of travel of the vehicle as compared to a numerically lower gear ratio.

Ok, so when people put bigger tires on their Jeeps, one turn of the tire (and of the ring gear) makes the Jeep go a further distance. It takes more energy, of course, to move an object a greater distance, so if the engine turns at the same RPM that it did before the bigger tires were installed, the engine is trying to move the vehicle further for the same number of explosions in the cylinders. This isn't good, of course, so the engine RPM drops and it "grunts." It still works, but it doesn't have the acceleration that it did with the smaller tires. Installing new gears with numerically higher ratio will allow the engine to turn more RPM and make more power.

Guess I just took something pretty easy to understand the way Mac explained it and muddied it up real good, huh?

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

tsjay · June 2004

Different engines have their own particular ranges of RPM where they are the most efficient. The little four banger engine, the 2.4 L, makes its power and operates the best at higher RPM compared to the 4.0 L engine. This is why the standard gearing for the SE model is 4.11 but is only 3.73 or 3.07 for the Sports and Saharas.

THe Rubicons have 4.11 (4.10?) gearing from the factory, but they also have 31" tires. The 4.11 gearing is used to compensate for the larger tires.

So, Jeeps, or any other vehicle, are designed for a certain tire size and a certain gear ratio to optimize the RPM range of the engine. Installing larger tires without regearing takes the engine out of its optimum RPM range.

If there is very little difference in tire size between the old tires and the new ones, then regearing probably isn't necessary.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

mac24 · June 2004

Well explained Tom, I'm sure you made it a lot clearer for Greta than I did.

Here's a couple of links that take you to good illustrated explanations of how a differential works, and how four wheel drive works.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/differential.htm

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/four-wheel-drive.htm

There's some good animations that help explain better than words can sometimes.

greta · June 2004

WoW !!! Gentlemen, gentlemen, gentlemen; You guys could teach Physics 401, or something! Great stuff, love this collective concentration of collaborative collateral ... whatever. Really turns my gears!!! Thanks for the info. Greta

greenjeep · June 2004

Hello All. Its been a while since I posted anything. Been real busy, but not to busy to enjoy my 04 Rubi (the Frog). I was told to use regular oil for the first few oil changes to allow for engine "break-in". I prefer to use synthetic oil. Question: Will it be okay to use synthetic after two oil changes or should I let the engine get a little more wear/mileage on it before using it? I'd appreciate any advice or opinions you might have about this.

Also got a "Brute Force" air intake installed. I got this from 4WD catalog. I have noticed a moderate difference in gas mileage and power. I would highly recommend this to anyone who is interested in more power/gas mileage. I expect to better it even further with an aftermarket exhaust in the next few weeks.

Thanks in advance for any comments about the oil.

GreenJeep

tsjay · June 2004

Glad you are enjoying that Rubi!

You would probably be OK in going to synthetic now, but I would suggest waiting until about 10K miles just to be sure.

I definitely believe in synthetic oil, and Mobil 1 is what I use. I waited until about 10K before switching, though.

I hope your Brute Force intake is getting the air cleaned up good for you. That's what I fear about those after market intake things. They may be less restrictive, but are they less restrictive at the cost of lower efficiency? I just never have trusted those things.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

mac24 · June 2004

Your engine should be sufficiently run in by 6-10k to then change to synthetic. Remember though, the 4.0 often goes to 200k on dino oil without a problem, so your main benefits with regard to engine wear will come after that point. On some engines it will reduce friction and therefore give a little better fuel mileage. The most measurable benefit of synthetic oil is in conditions of extreme cold or heat. However, you will do no harm by using it, so don't think I'm trying to discourage you.

Now for a rather stronger opinion on your AEM Brute Force Intake System. It brings to my mind a different kind of oil..........snake oil! Without launching into a huge diatribe, let me just say that allowing the engine to breathe more freely with a replacement intake can only be effective if the current intake is restrictive in some way. I have only ever seen figures to show this occurs with 4.0 at W.O.T. (wide open throttle). Tom has already commented on the filter. I don't know about AEM, but K&N sell an additional filter sock for use over their conical filters in dusty conditions; should tell you something! Finally, the throttle body spacer that comes with that kit, if it does anything at all, will move a little power from low in the rev range to a bit higher up.

These sort of changes, at the manufacturer level, would cost virtually nothing to implement. If they actually worked, the benefit to DC would be worth millions in C.A.F.E. benefits, let alone being able to claim better MPG and performance figures to the consumer.

Oh well, maybe it turned into a diatribe after all! I just can't go along with a recommendation that these kits will improve performance and mpg.

Synthetic Oil :--)

Snake Oil :--(

tsjay · June 2004

You da man! I totally agree with you about those after market intake systems, based on all that I have been able to find out.

Greenjeep, no offense, but that's just the way I feel about those puppies.

We make automotive filter paper where I work, so I know a little bit about filters.

Many after market filters are made of pure synthetic materials, so you could say that I am prejudiced against them because they do not use the paper that we produce. Well, that's not why I don't like them, and if they really worked, I would be using one myself.

The three most important characteristics of a filter are its restriction, its dirt trapping efficiency, and its dirt holding capacity.

An air filter could be 100% effective in preventing dirt from passing through it if it were made of a non-porous, solid material. Of course, no air could pass through it either.

Or, a filter could cause vitaully no restriction in the air flow at all, if it had no filter medium in it. But then it wouldn't stop any dirt from getting through.

The factory filters are designed with restriction and dirt trapping efficiency in mind, and the proper balance is strived for. I'm not at all convinced that the high flow after market filter replacements maintain the dirt trapping efficiency that they need.

As Mac said, the increased air flow would only do the engine some good if the factory filters were not capable of allowing a sufficient volume of air to pass through them. Who says they are not?

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

mtngal · June 2004

Just my 2 cents. I would use synthetic oil, especially if you are not putting the miles on very quickly. I'm still using Dino oil in mine - at first I was changing my oil about every 6 weeks (3000 miles) because I was putting that many miles on. I never changed to Synthetic and now that I have 119,000 miles on the odometer, I'm sort of afraid to change at this late date. I'm also not driving my Noble Black Steed as much (gas is too expensive for much unnecessary wanderings) so I wish now that I had been using synthetic all along. After all, he's got to go another hundred thousand miles before I'll think about replacing him.

I got the XM Roady yesterday and installed it in the Taco. I had to order the wireless FM Modulator 'cause they were out of them, but it is supposed to be sent - then I can try it out in the Wrangler (I only have an AM/FM in it). Has anyone got any ideas about the antenna in the Wrangler? I don't have a sound bar - it didn't become standard until a year or 2 after I bought mine. After looking at the setup and doing it in the Taco, I think it would be easier to order a second antenna, rather than moving the one in the Taco. So far it works very well, and it is nice to be able to check the traffic when I leave home, rather than waiting until I'm in radio range. I'll like it even better Saturday when we drive to Vegas!

twylie · June 2004

I added XM to my Jeep a couple of months ago and used a Blitzsafe Micro antenna. I'll link a couple of pictures so you can see the antenna on my Jeep. It's VERY small and while I have mine on top the soundbar, I believe it would fit under the rollbar padding, on top of the rollbar (yes, it is that small!).

Given the drive you have, I think you'll love having XM in your vehicles.

http://www.ewylie.com/images/jeep/xmant1.jpg
http://www.ewylie.com/images/jeep/xmant2.jpg

-twylie

mac24 · June 2004

You're probably right not to change to synthetic at that high a mileage. It won't damage the engine, but it is likely to start leaking past the seals.

You should have many tens of thousands of miles left in your engine still, and when the time comes it can still be rebuilt or re-manufactured at a reasonable cost.

fairview · June 2004

I got XM a couple of weeks ago and am really happy with it. While I have not secured the antenna in the Jeep, I have moved it around and everywhere I put it, the reception is fine (I have a factory hardtop). From what I can see, a fiberglass or canvas top is no hindrance to good reception.

ksuwildcat001 · June 2004

I will agree that just swapping the filter out probably won't gain any power or mpg. It will only last longer than the regular paper filter and thus pay for itself over time in that regards.

However, swapping out the entire intake tube system and filter has been proven in tests to improve power over most OEM systems. Some OEM systems are extremely restrictive in an attempt to cut down on intake noise. I've seen independent tests where they have gained anywhere from 10 to 15 hp by swapping out the OEM system for an aftermarket high performance intake system. That and the benefit of not having to replace the filter was more than enough reason for me to switch to K&N.

Jeep Wrangler

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