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I have done 5700 miles and I am ready for my first maintenance visit to the dealer. I just came from a road trip to Orlando, FL. On my way back to Miami, I was getting (at the end of the trip), 22.9 MPG cruising on the highway!. That is horrible, way lower that the advertised: 26 to 38 MPG (Averaged 32 MPG!). Around the city I have to be very happy getting 20MPG. I always drive very carefully and smoothy and always have the ECO light on that tells you that you are driving with the most favorable conditions for fuel economy. I like the car, but I feel literally robbed. I will not buy a KIA again and certainly will not recommend it to somebody looking for good fuel economy. The worst part is that this company totally mislead you. How can the get away with that?. Shame on KIA.
The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) acknowledges that their fuel economy estimates will
vary from actual fuel mileage results in 'Real World' driving conditions. Fuel Economy is not a fixed
number, it differs significantly based on several variables that can affect mileage estimates.
All new vehicles are tested by the manufacturer according to guidelines outlined by the EPA, who
in turn reviews and confirms some of the manufacturers' results with their own additional testing at
the National Vehicle and Fuel Emissions Laboratory (NVFEL) in Ann Arbor, Michigan. The vehicle
tests are conducted according to different schedules to produce City and Highway fuel economy
ratings.
City - Represents urban driving. The test starts with the vehicles engine cold. The car is operated
in such a way as to represent 11 miles of stop and go traffic. The average speed is 20 MPH and
the top speed is 56 MPH. Periods of idling are also included. The test is completed after 11 miles
of simulated driving on a dynamometer.
Highway - Represents a mixture of rural and interstate highway driving. The vehicles engine is
warmed up before the test begins, and an average speed of approximately 48 MPH is maintained.
The top speed is 60 MPH, and no intermediate stops or idling is included in the test. The test is
completed after 10 miles of simulated driving on a dynamometer.
THAT is robbery, a scam. I am getting 22MPG after 3 hours of cruising @ 70 on the perfectly smooth, straight, sunny (and not windy) Florida's turnpike with the AC on.
That is a 31% below!. How about KIA giving me back 31% of the price paid because of this false promise? That would be $9000. THAT is a rip off, no matter how you want to dress it up. It was the biggest selling point for me and I am sure that is very important to a lot of customers and prospect customers ( and i don't care nor need a V6, V8 or V12 engine on my family vehicle) I know for sure that KIA is off my list for next cars.
I started tracking fuel econ after 4000 miles, once I realized something wasn't matching up. Now that I'm up over 11,000 miles, and having tested many different sources of fuel, driving fast, driving slow, driving on cruise control, etc.... I've concluded that it's never going to get anywhere close to the low end estimate for highway (26mpg), much less the average EPA estimate of 32mpg. Still..... I'm WAY lower than I should be. Lower, in fact, than the mean value for city of 22mpg.
I contacted my local dealer (Kia of West Chester, PA), and they put me in touch with the service manager. A couple of months ago they told me the engine needed to "break in" for 10,000 miles. Saturday when I told him the problems I was having, he said I needed 15,000 miles.... but that he'd talk to his Kia rep. Now this morning he's telling me he has been authorized to run a 75 mile test. I work in the fuel additives business and am a Ph.D scientist, and know that running a road test for 75 miles is a random number generator. My 7,000 miles of fuel log data apparently mean nothing.
Right now I'm furious, so banging out this post helps clear my head. Would appreciate any feedback. I feel I am being stonewalled big-time.
Shame on KIA
Kia and Hyundai have been getting quite a bit of bad press over mpg ratings not living up to owner's expectations. Well, mostly Hyundai. (CBS)
I have a 09 Camry 4 cyc and it has a 30MPG highway rating. I get around 30-33 each time. Mostly highway with some city driving. It has 50K on it. I did see an improvement since I bought it.( bought it used with 9K on it. It used to get around 28-29 when I bought it). About 3-4 MPG improvement.
10MPG difference between sticker and real world seemed too much on my sorento though. I will keep a proper log like yours and see where we get.
This is on a '99 Quest btw.
But yeah, gas logs are kind of fun and can indicate that your car is misbehaving if you experience a sudden, sustained drop. And it might be good ammo in dealing with Kia down the road.
I have owned numerous cars gas and diesel. My previous vehicle was a 2005 Jeep Liberty Limited CRD (common rail diesel). It died an ignominious death after throwing a rod with 77,594 miles on it.
1. There is a break-in period for all engines and it varies depending on the kind of driving you do, the lubricant used and a zillion other variables. The diesel did not reach it's best fuel economy until 20,000 plus miles. We now have a 2010 Mercury Milan with the 4 cylinder and it has 37,400 miles on board. It took to nearly 15,000 miles before fuel economy numbers became consistent.
2. Kia uses the same basic engine in the Optima and the Sorento. The Optima makes more power too but there are some important differences. For one look at the final drive/axle ratio for each. The Optima is geared higher than the Sorento. Next as a few have pointed out is the weight issue. Ford uses the same 2.5L four in the Fusion and the Escape and the fuel economy difference is not that subtle. Next, an issue few have addressed is aerodynamics. The Sorento is like driving a brick through the air versus the Optima which is quite sleek.
3. Speed makes a difference. With my Jeep, if I cruised at 62 MPH, it was not uncommon for me to exceed 32 MPG (EPA 26 MPG) calculated and this in a vehicle that weighed more than 4300 pounds with a 2.8L turbo diesel that made 160 HP but 300 ft-lb of torque. If I cruised at 70 MPH then 26 MPG was the rule. With the Mercury, it is pretty much the same but I do miss the torque from the diesel.
4. The use of conventional lubricants in modern engines in my view is a problem. I prefer and use synthetic lubricants as I have seen a 1 to 1.5 MPG improvement over conventional oils.
5. I also use a high performance air filter such as those from K&N or from Amsoil. Better breathing helps.
6. Fuel quality also makes a difference as has been pointed out by a few. I use BP then I get my best performance and fuel economy. If I use Costco or another no name brand fuel economy suffers as well as drivability. Also, make sure your tires are properly inflated and consider running them 10% over what the sticker on the drivers door post calls for.
I seem to get the best mileage with Sunoco regular (true across several cars). My speculation is that because the grade is mixed at the pump, there may somehow be a bit less ethanol in the mix (to make things safe for high-octane customers). Ethanol impacts mpg, in my experience, up to 1-2 mpg. Sunoco gives me about 1 mpg better mileage than other brands.
Best mileage may also be in spring & fall when windows are less likely to be open and a/c less likely to be on. If you think about it, driving at speed with the sunroof full open is like driving with a parachute attached.
Overall I'm getting around 22 mpg with the 6 (now at roughly 13,500 miles), compared to the 25 I got overall with my Toyota Highlander Hybrid.
Doesn't seem so bad.
One thing that helped my van's mpg was throwing away the middle seat when it was new. :shades: That's a bit extreme but it does help to get rid of the junk in your trunk.
I don't think the added expense of synthetic oil pays off either, unless you can always find it on sale for a price similar to regular oil. The price differential is worse if you don't change your own oil too. But some makes specific synthetic for some models while the rest are just spec'ing 5W20 regular oil.
Driving style is probably the biggest factor.
What Really Saves Gas? And How Much?
Save Gas with Smart Driving and Slick Aerodynamics
The bottom line here is the car is to big to pull a 5000 lb. vehicle, with a 4cyl. No matter what they say.
Have already pushed people away from this vehicle, and will trade it in as soon as possible,(financially). To bad to, I really like the car.
Just curious what part of the country you live? I got 23.5 mpg Highway on my 2012 Toyota Highlander Limited V6 AWD which comes in at 4500 lbs on a trip to Pittsburgh and back. I found that my 2011 Sorento EX V6 Fwd got about 25 mpg on this trip which is very hilly mixed with Mountains. I could get close to 27 mpg when we drove flat two lane country roads at 55 mph. City was never good nor is it good in the Highlander. We traded the Sorento for the Toyota.
I have used K&N filters in various vehicles over the years. I have never had an issue with a K&N and have never had a warranty issue either. As to more dirt passing through, not likely. For turbo engines, I find that these filters reduce turbo lag to almost nil. Again, I have never had any dirt contamination. For my 2010 Mercury Milan with the 2.5L four cylinder, I am using an Amsoil dry air filter. When I changed over, the difference in performance was significant enough. The engine pulled a bit better.
As to synthetic oil, I disagree with you. I find that synthetics keep the engine far cleaner than conventional oils and are far more durable under severe conditions. Again, I use Amsoil lubricants, something I have been doing since the early 1990's. With the newer engines having variable valve timing I believe it is imperative that the mechanisms be kept very clean and that they have lots of lubrication available. Also, consider the fact that auto makers are making vehicles more aerodynamic means less air flow through the engine compartment and higher heat conditions that the oil must deal with. Add to that the fact smaller engines are now producing power means more heat that puts additional stress on the oil.
My wife drives a 1998 Chrysler Concorde with the 2.7L V-6, a notorious engine for making sludge and having a short life. It has had synthetic oil in it for most of it's life and has been trouble free and is spotless inside. It runs quietly, has no oil consumption, nor any valve train noise whatsoever.
Most engines these days are going to a 5W-20 oil. I find that the synthetics hold up far better than conventional at such a low viscosity.
Unless you have some dyno results or oil analyses, seat of the pants "feel" is just that; seat of the pants. If I spent a lot of money on high end filters and synthetic oil for my passenger cars, I'd want to think the performance was better too and that there was no engine wear occurring.
Out in the real world, there's just no bang for buck evidence to justify the high grade stuff. Bet you won't find many fleet owners going that route either. And I drive them forever (we've owned 4 cars since 1982, around 450k).
Amsoil might be an MLM company, but all reality which company is not? What they sell beside their lubricants is of little interest to me. All I know is that since I started using synthetics, I have had no sludge build up and have had almost no wear in engines notorious for both, engines such as the Chrysler 2.7L V-6.
I noticed that my engine idles very rough. The salesman blamed it on the A/C. It does it when the A/C is off. Anyone else have that problem? The engine and transmission seem to perform as expected, and I am otherwise happy with the vehicle's handling, ride and comfort, as well as the EVO and bluetooth.
I'm going to dun the service department for the first 30 days until they do something drastic: Maybe a new engine control chip or a flash reprogramming. (The EVO didn't work right until I rebooted it.) I keep reading about the after-market chips which can improve mileage, but I'm not going to risk the loss of warranty.
I HAVE BEEN GETTING 23.7---24.9 IN BASIC DRIVING , PART CTY. ROADS, PART CITY TRAFFIC.
ON LONG TRIPS I HAVE CONSTANTLY AVE., 29-31 MPG.
I TEND TO FOLLOW THE SPEED LIMIT WHICH COULD BE THE KEY TO BETTER MILEAGE.
THE GOVT. DOESN'T USE REAL GAS FOR THEIR TESTS AND SPEED IS HELD DOWN TO BETWEEN 40-50 MPH.
WE ARE VERY HAPPY WITH OUR PURCHASE AND THE WAY THE VEHICLE IS FITTED OUT.
BACK UP CAMERA IS A GREAT FEATURE.
Is your mileage calculated or from the trip odometer readout? What you get is what I expected. I also follow the speed limit and know every technique to improve mileage. I averaged 37 mpg in my Honda Civic in the last decade. I think that these Theta-2 engines are not all made in Korea. There may be substantial differences between them. I tried to decipher the VIN but apparently the 2013 numbering is different, since it doesn't fit any of the identifying guides and gets "unknown" in the Kia VIN program. I can't find an identifier on the engine.
ASSEMBLED HERE IN GEORGIA. I ASSUME ALL ENGINES ARE MADE THERE AND SHIPPED TO THE STATES.
On recent travel, my rental car was upgraded to a Sorento with V6 engine. I could notice a clear difference between my Sorento with GDI engine. Simply the GDI engine is not powerful enough for Sorento and you end up wasting more gas. Car is just too big for 4cyc GDI.
Posted MPG miles can be correct. My Camry is a definite example of that. It gets 32MPG on the highway(50K miles on it) and I think that was the sticker for that vehicle.
I also noted that at 172 miles into the trip computer, it read 24.4 mpg. After driving 2.5 miles to WalMart, stopping 20 minutes and then making a second quick stop and returning home 2.5 miles (no idling,) the dash read 23.3! This means I used 7 gallons of fuel (172 miles/24.4 mpg = 7 gal) to go 172 miles, and .6 gallon (178 miles/23.3 mpg = 7.6 gal) to go 6 miles (6 miles/.6 gal = 10 mpg.) If this is corrected for the 11% error, it is worse. My estimate of highway mileage is about 26 mpg, but maybe I could get 32 on 500 uninterrupted miles of interstate 95 on the way to Florida. I get 34 mpg in my 2008 Hyundai Sonata on that trip--and it reads within +/- 2%. This Sorento engine appears to be a fuel hog at low speeds or idling.
So, perhaps the average speed is an indication of gas mileage; if you average only 18 mph, there is too much idling and not enough travel in 6th gear. My average speed was 22 mph and 22.4 mpg last time I looked. I have never gotten the average speed above 55 in the Hyundai, even when driving 75 mph on the interstate. Just stop for gas, lunch, dinner, overnight, and the average speed plummets. I noticed that the transmission will not go into 6th gear below 42 mph. If you can travel over 42 mph, and not accelerating or going uphill, you can achieve the best mileage.
But none of that explains why one vehicle (e.g., Honda CR-V) consistently exceeds its EPA estimates and another (Kia Sorento) frequently fails to measure up. The EPA Office of Transportation and Air Quality (Margo T. Oge, Director) insists that it measures mileage consistently from vehicle to vehicle, using the complex rules Congress has enacted. So why can't we use the EPA figures for comparison?
For reference, I was getting exactly 25 mpg overall and 27-29 mpg in my 2011 Toyota highlander Hybrid (totalled by a falling tree in a storm and not replaceable due to the Tsunami damage).
The bottom line here is the engine is to small for the 5000 lbs it has to pull.
BUYER BEWARE
I'm ready to assemble owners for class-action--not based on EPA estimates (that won't work unless somebody cheated,) but on the expectations promoted in literature and by salespeople. Anyone else interested?
My 11-year-old toyota Celica was still running perfectly but impractical for family outings. My goal was to fix this without sacrificing insurance, gas costs, and hopefully maintenance. I estimated before buying that the crossovers in general should cost about what my GTS does (epa 20/29 premium) if I drive careful. After a week, Sorento is close enough for me to be relieved. I set my first trip rolling out from the dealership and I am here to report tank #1 at 26.3. Note that they window sticker that misleads many with the number "32" clearly says the realistic estimate for combined driving is 25.
I took a picture:
http://tinypic.com/r/2a8ey5h/6
jawilson's scholarship is appreciated, and if he is right, then the needle in this position indicates I have burned 14.5 gallons, so 377/14.5 = 26. It can be debated if the needle must cover the line perfectly or if the needle touching the line is right, if that's the case, I was at 367 and trip calculator is off by about 3%. Filling up will give another perspective, but I'll have to fill several times before confident it is filling to the same spot each time, and pumps are pumping what they claim.
What kind of driving does this represent? 5 29 mile trips to work at 5:00 AM in SoCal on the 5, 13% city, no traffic or AC, 65-75. 5 29 mile trips home in hot afternoon with moderate traffic and AC on 2, 13% city; 50-70. The other 87 are mostly in town with traffic, lights, idling at drive-throughs, and a few trips with family where I drive a little more aggressively so as not to embarrass them. On my spreadsheet before purchase I estimated 25 based on Consumer Report's slightly lower figures for the non GDI 4. Impression is this thing wants to get 21 if you're doing much more than touching the accelerator. As others have noted, ALL the 4-banger SUVs have a myriad of unhappy owners who expected better gas mileage, Kia is not unique here.
My take on random comments from this thread:
"one vehicle (e.g., Honda CR-V) consistently exceeds its EPA"
Consumer Reports says 16/32 vs. 22/30 EPA for CRV. The V6 Sorento 14/26 vs. 19/25 so it also exceeded EPA on highway. But City is the killer, and
they all do much worse here. The non-GDI 4 did just barely worse than CRV compared to its EPA and 6 did arguably the same.
"Eco light is always on which is suppose to mean you are getting the best gas mileage you can get"
"and always have the ECO light on that tells you that you are driving with the most favorable conditions"
These statements are not quite right. Read about GDI here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_direct_injection
There are 3 operational modes in GDI and the eco light means you are in mode 1. Though a bit over the top, I could say if I have a car with a turbo charger and nitrus, that driving without the turbo kicked in and NoS pumping that I'm getting my best gas mileage. That's true relative to the other modes of operation, but it's not true within the mode. You can still give plenty of gas in eco mode that will hurt your MPG. Until your foot is a butterfly resting on the throttle in eco mode, you're not getting your best gas mileage.
"I think when you have a Sorento with V6 engine, you get better mileage than one with GDI engine"
Consumer reports shows the non-GDI 4 ties with the 6 combined MPG, but the 4 better by 2 MPG on the 150 round trip. I expect when they finish their eval of the GDI, that it will surpass the 6 enough to easily justify it for those who don't want to pay more for the 6, get a little better gas, and don't need the extra power.
"Should not be that much difference in mileage [than a lighter car w/proportional engine]. Sorento is heavier but has more torque and horsepower."
this matters for 0-60, but more mass means more energy required to accelerate, period. a 3800 pound car will never get the mileage of a 3000 pound car if the two are using identical technology proportional to size. The best gas mileage will always be had by smaller cars, what we should be
optimistic about is the more realistic ownership of a well-tuned large vehicle.
"was able to use my cruise almost the whole way going"
"Set my cruise on 60 for 15-25 miles and got a WOPPIN 15.9 MPG"
Cruise control doesn't help gas mileage, unless there is some advanced version of it I'm not aware of that uses GPS to calculate road contour. As
an extreme example, imagine going down a hill into a valley and then up another hill. Is it better to have cruise control braking the vehicle on the way down to not exceed 70 and then power its way up the next hill, or let the weight add to your speed going down to hit the incline base at 75? But 16 MPG is too low, something must be wrong. If Kia can't find it (and they have a small vested interest in that they work for corporate, not you) ask around to find a solid independent mechanic to help. I'm not sure I will do any of my service through KIA or any dealer.
"Some gas stations use a cheaper quality gas which effects all vechicles MPG"
very possible. good point.
"I get between 22-24 mpg in what I call "mixed" driving, which is about half on the freeway. While I know it's too early to really gauge the real mileage,"
Just to point out again, the EPA combined rating that is actually printed on the window sticker very clearly, is 25.
"i do think the car companies set up the cars to get best mileage under epa tests standards making it harder for the average person to hit the numbers"
Partly true. Well, what should the standard be? Who is the average person? If the EPA does it right, then car companies seeking to max their EPA ratings will of consequence be helping the average person hit their best numbers. If otherwise, the implication is that the EPA has unrealistic
standards, not that car companies are doing something wrong.
"alot of weight for a 4 cyl in a sorento. look at other forums equinox etc. all people with 4 cyl engines get poor mileage"
The Sorento is 191 HP and 3,800 pounds. Back in the day, my '73 Cutlas Supreme, 350 ci V8 with Edelbrock 4-barrel put out 180 HP. Looks like it
weighed 3559. Sorrento GDI 4 is not underpowered at all. I've seen estimates of 0-60 of 8.8, faster than my cutlas, and some (technically) sports cars are in the 7's. 3,800 pounds is a lot of weight, period, it takes X amount of exploding force to accelerate it no matter how many cylinders.
If you're accelerating the vehicle all day long, it takes a lot of power. The smaller engine or more efficient GDI engine can maintain velocity withou