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...maintain velocity without wasting as much fuel as a larger engine. The open question is if real engineering, realistic driving conditions, and habits can take advantage. All-in-all the 4's still get better gas mileage than the 6's, enough to justify? It's close, the Sorento GDI4 is the only crossover I drove that had enough throttle response that along with lower price, and est. 2-4 MPG better seemed worth it.
"still average 27 when they say up to 32. don't count on really good gas mileage. Traded in a Nissan Altima that was getting 32 and if I knew
Consumer Reports says the 4-cyl Sorento gets 20 mpg average"
CR says 20 combined (RAV4 22, CRV 23), but that's for the non-GDI 4. The 150 mile round trip they report 25. They also report they CAN get 28 (EPA 21/28) and I wager when the GDI 4 review comes out they'll get 31 or 32 in ideal conditions. And the Altima, though it gets 32 on the 150 mile trip, gets 26 combined. I admit that's fantastic, but just pointing out the "26" and the "20" pair, and that you might have also been turned off by CR's 26 combined rating if 32 was the expectation.
I admit that the EPA ratings are disproportionally not met among the gas-saving crossovers when compared to sedans and eco cars, which often exceed. If i wasn't going from a sports car to a crossover I'd probably be less satisfied then I am. But technology is moving in right direction and owning a modern SUV with today's gas prices is more viable than most older models.
We traded a Saturn Vue on the Kia; the Vue averaged over 2mpg better overall with considerably better mileage on the road and slightly worse in town. It was a disappointment to have less power and worse mileage for our trouble.
What finally pushed us to unload the Kia was the inept service department in our home town. After 27000 miles, the tranmission clunked when we put the Kia in drive. We were leaving in a couple days on a 3000 trip. The first person we spoke to in the service department told us "They all do that after a while." That seemed unreasonable so I asked the service manager to look; he and a service tech determined it was a broken motor mount. They didn't have the part but promised it would be in in two days, but as you might expect, it didn't arrive. They did send us an email stating that it was okay to drive the car on this trip with a broken motor mount, (ugh) and the part was being overnighted, why I don't know. We called ahead to the dealer in Dubuque and had them contact our local dealer to verify serial numbers and part numbers so we could get it fixed upon arrival. Long story short, it didn't have a broken motor mount, but there was a service bulletin out which the Dubuque service man used to correctly diagnose the problem and fix it. They also had to order the third brake/ignition interface switch which had been replaced twice at our local dealer, but aparently incorrectly installed. When we left Dubuque all was again well except the mileage. If we lived in Dubuque, we would have kept the car; at least they have a good service department. On the way home, the AC dripped into the passenger foot area and soaked my wife's pocketbook. Our local dealer once again (ugh) failed to please. They said they idled the car for three hours and decided that it leaked because we didn't use max (recirculating) air; if we used max air it shouldn't happen any more. When asked why the problem should start after 28000 miles and not before, they had no answer. The GM was unavailable to discuss any of this.
We went next door and traded it for a Pruis V. It gets an honest 40-44mpg as advertised; we get a little better because of our driving habits which didn't help in the Kia. It also has 34.3 cu ft of cargo space behind the second row of seats (Kia has 37), and has more passenger leg room. We will save about $1500/yr in gas at our present usage and gas prices so will recoup most of our money in 5 years. I am waiting to see if any suits come up for Kia and their mileage claim in comparison to the pitiful actual results. I would also encourage you to give Prius V a look if you don't need the ground clearance. (5.7 vs 7.2 inches)
All I know is that I've *consistently* averaged 22.2 mpg for the life of the car. The absolute best fuel economy I have gotten is 26mpg on an all-highway trip. My driving is 50% highway anyway.
There has been no break-in period, which they told me there would be. Personally, I think this is absolute B.S. ... modern engines shouldn't require a break in period.
Here is my mileage tracking chart: http://postimage.org/image/5zl01ivlt/
Love the vechicle, hate the mpg, esp. as advertised
Class action suit available???I'm in.
One thing of note, the idle of the GDI is very erratic, sometimes smooth as glass other times down right rough. Dealer did an update that improved it but still there seems to be the same problem but to a lesser degree. Is anyone else having this issue? I wish the computer had an instant MPG read versus the average. You can tell a lot more from that. I am riding this out for a while and see if it gets better with some decent gas. Currently getting 17 around town on short trips. One more thing, where is your temp gauge sitting when driving? Mine is below center which seems odd.
Good luck to all!
.....
After my second test tank of gas, I've confirmed the MPG guage off by 10-11 percent. I got 26.8 (or 29.5 KiaMiles/gallon - KMPG) average after 1 full week, 5 days of 60 mile commuting w/ 80% freeway, and a handful of miles to store, restaraunts etc. after work and on weekend with bad traffic. I'd fill up my Celica GTS every 7 days using midgrade. My fillup this week with the Kia was 45$ (about a notch below half) with regular, lower than any celica fillup i had since May, about 2-5$ less. That was one of my goals, to pay about the same for gas as I did with my Celica. Granted, I drive the KIA for maximum MPG and the Celica I'd just lock cruise control at 75 and not think about it. But that doesn't mean I only drive 55, if there is traffic, I might, because the payoff for weaving around is so low anyway, but more typical is 65-70.
Some things that have helped me get better MPG from my first attempt I reported:
-not idling at drivethroughs forever (I still idled on last tank to keep the comparison with celica more or less fair)
-reset the MPG guage on freeway while driving 60, try to get it up to at least 36KMPG, and then try to keep it from falling when getting into town; as opposed to setting it in town and building it up on freeway; easier to see what's killing you.
-try to brake as little as possible, if you think the lights going to change red, let it roll out.
-this thing rolls forever, i'm getting better at not using gas just as i'm coming over a hill i know will get me up to speed with gravity down the other side.
Next thing is to optimize up/downhill on freeway, resetting MPG guage liberally and recording results with different kinds of speed variations.
and remember: with equivalent technology, a car will always get better MPG than an SUV. Laws of physics, more mass requires greater force to move it. period. with SUV we should shoot for "good enough", not "good".
What would really help if data was provided showing gas mileage as a function of different velocities/acceleration etc., so one can make selection based on their driving preferences and constraints. Though this exaggerates the point a bit, you can google an episode of Top Gear showing a Prius getting worse MPG than an M3 on a track.
I still can't believe after writing the president of KIA American, he responded with a color brouchure on how to drive for better mileage!!!!
I mailed it right back to him with a few words.
Talk of a lawsuit over EPA estimates is ignorance. Using the vehicle's trip computer to determine mileage is also ignorance. The EPA doesn't, and neither should you.
Most of the anger seems to be directed at the 4 cylinder mileage, and has already been pointed out, loading 3-4 passengers into a 2 ton vehicle, and expecting EPA mileage results is ridiculous too. Read the EPA testing parameters, duplicate them as closely as possible, and your results should approximate the EPA's. I have the V6 SX AWD, and my mileage is within +/- 3%.
A vehicle with this size and weight will give much more consistent mileage with the larger horsepower and torque of the V6, and the EPA mileage estimates between the 6 and the 4 were only 2 MPG. Why buy the 4 at all? Better to have the V6 power available and not need it, than vice versa.
I have had my Sorento 6 weeks, driven 1200 miles, and love it.
I think the President of KIA was more than polite to reply to your message at all. He sent you a brochure on how to achieve the EPA mileage by altering your driving habits, what more would you expect him to do?
If you think the Sorento is too heavy for the 4 cylinder, you should have bought the V6, but you cheaped out, and now you have no one to blame but yourself, not that you are not trying.
It's your driving habits, speed off the line, vehicle load weight, local vs. high %, or likely all of the above. If you had researched the vehicle properly, you would have gotten the V6.
The idea that KIA is participating in a conspiracy to fool people about EPA mileage is absurd. The EPA mileage ESTIMATES are on every new car window sticker in America, you cannot listen to salesman, or anyone else in this regard.
The nanny state has required consistent and published EPA estimates for years. Man up and take responsibility for your decisions and driving habits, and quit your whining, please.
Well the bottom line is not matter the EPA estimates or not KIA sells this product based on that, and to me that is deceptive, and they certainley do that, proclaiming ther great mpg this gets. I have done all the test scenarios you can think of, and not by the mpg calc on my tripometer, but by actual fuel used vs mileage, and not with 3-4 people in the vechicle, just me.
So good luck with your KIA, but please don't tell me what I already know, and that the MPG claim by KIA is CRAP.
Honda Civic Hybrid Settlement
Just like manufacturers built to crash tests, I think they tune the car's computers to do good on the mileage tests they do to meet the fuel economy regulations. Those numbers don't seem to translate well to the real world for some makes.
Both Kia and Hyundai are getting a reputation for their vehicles not getting the EPA miles per gallon estimates in the real world.
And, moreover, I paid an extra $1800 to be able to access the GDI technology due to , again, KIA's over the top promotion of it over the std 4 cylinder. As it stands, the difference in MPG is more realistically a few MPG, instead of the bigger difference many of us expected.
If you read most of the posts in this thread, you will see that people are tracking each tank fill vs mileage, not the dash display. So, drop that.
Go back several posts and you'll see my detailed mileage over the last 17,000 miles. I've only achieved 26 mpg once. I drive at least 50% highway miles. The range stated on the window sticker for highway (26-38) is meant to be a distribution. I don't expect it to be a normal distribution (bell curve), but I don't expect that I could never stay hover in the low end of the range on several all-highway trips.
So a bunch of people too ignorant to do proper due diligence regarding a vehicle purchase filed a class action. As is typical, Honda chose to settle instead of litigate, for cost reasons. What was the settlement? Up to $1K off of a new Honda to those eligible, if purchased within 1 year, and here is the best part, a free DVD on changing your driving habits to improve gas mileage.
It is estimated that trading in your old Honda for $1K off a new one is going to net the average owner about $200 in savings, and the % of people expected to do so is very small.
The bottom line is do the proper research on anything you plan to buy. The cost of the GDI engine versus the regular 4 divided by the fuel savings means you are going to spend years waiting for the MPG difference to pay back the higher cost. These differences have been documented by Consumer Reports and all of the car magazines.
How many of the people on here complaining actually test drove the Sorentos in all 3 different engine configs? How many knew their % of local vs. highway driving, since the GDI's better mileage comes from highway driving.
Its typical of Americans today to want to blame others for their own poor decisions. They can't even compare EPA mileage, which is designed to offer comparisons between vehicles, NOT guarantee you mileage of that particular vehicle. What part of "Mileage is for comparison purposes only, your mileage likely to vary" is ambiguous?
If any of these whiners had done a test drive between vehicles, and not bought the V6 for a 2 ton high profile vehicle, especially when the EPA difference is only 2 MPH, what is left to say?
Hire a lawyer, file suit, wait 2 years or more, get a coupon that nets you a $200 savings if you buy another KIA, and get your driving habits DVD.
The president of KIA will send you a driving habits color brochure right now for free. Seems to me to be your best option.
You can't fix stupid.
I don't think the fact that it was a hybrid really matter; the suits attacked the advertising.
It would be nice if there was a site with a large number of owners reporting in, not just ones with low mpg. Fueleconomy.gov has the right idea, but only a handful of owners reporting.
The standard 4 cylinder in the Sportage gets an EPA combined 24 MPG, and the GDI gets 25, only 1 more MPG.
With gas at $4.00 per gallon, and driving 12K miles per year, it would take you over 22 years to recoup the higher cost of the GDI engine, if as you stated, you paid $1800 more to have it.
DO YOUR RESEARCH......17 MPG HIGHWAY!!!! 17 MPG HIGHWAY!!!! DON'T BELIEVE WHAT YOU'RE TOLD! 17 MPG HIGHWAY !!!
and drive around the 3 car malls that have Kia dealerships...I will also put balloons on my car and do this for the last 4 days at the end of every month. Maybe this will help the next consumer from being misled and then get blamed for not doing enough research. I also have friends who think this is funny and a great idea who are willing to make a parade. I unfortunately don't think it's funny at all but WILL make my statement.
I am unfazed by your suggestion that I must be a used car salesman as well, even though I am not. You are making assumptions based on old stereotypes. Most car dealers, including the used car ones, are interested in happy customers and repeat business.
I have the following suggestions for you, which are free, so take them or leave them as you will.
Its a CAR. Its not worth getting upset over, although I do understand your frustrations. What is a few lost MPG's compared to the time you are spending angry? Life is to short to let things like this determine your happiness.
If you are that upset, make an appointment to see the GM of the dealership, and explain to him that you need a car with better MPG, and the Sorento is not meeting your expectations, and ask him to work with you on a fair trade in on another model with better mileage. Perhaps a Sportage would work better if you need an SUV, or maybe if MPG is primary, choose one of the smaller cars.
You will take a depreciation hit if your car is a 2012, or 2013, but its not as bad as it used to be. Maybe the Used Car Manager or GM will give you a better deal to maintain customer relations, maybe not.
To get the most amount of money for your car, the best thing to do is to sell it on Auto Trader yourself, which is not that hard, but you need to be careful, and read their instructions. The California DMV has instructions on its website telling you everything you need to know to sell the car yourself, maybe your states DMV does as well.
What I would NOT do is what you are planning as far as making a scene in front of KIA dealerships. It is likely to harden their resolve that it is your fault, not theirs. As the old saying goes, you get more flies with honey than you so with vinegar.
Again, its just a car, a few hundred dollars per year in gas. In the great scheme of things, it is nothing, a mere annoyance. Many people with true challenges in their lives wish that was all they had to worry about.
The sooner you put it behind you and move on to happiness, the better your life will be.
Hope that helps.
http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/explained-2008-epa-fuel-economy-ratings.html-
http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/the-40-mpg-challenge.html
Do you have one of these cars? Does your experience more closely match the "new" ratings? For the majority of owners, it should.
Sorry to hear you are out of work, Tom. Creating a “side show” on our discussion seems to be your only employment, taking us away from our primary interest—to share our experience with the Kia Sorento’s mileage. You never told us your experience—just “+/- 3%.” Do you own a Sorento? If not, you don’t belong here.
So you think that all of us are poor drivers, do you? How do you know that? You have made hasty assumptions that our driving habits are fuel consuming, and that we failed to do any research before we bought a Sorento. I spent seven months comparing crossover vehicles and I have multiple huge spreadsheets comparing scores of parameters from curb weight and engine torque to IIHS and NHTSA ratings. I drove so many vehicles that the salespeople at all the local dealerships know me on a first name basis, and hate to see me come in because they know I only buy a car every 10 years.
I studied the Global Engine Manufacturing Alliance (GEMA), which was a joint venture of Chrysler, Mitsubishi and Hyundai. Begun in 2005, the 2.4 L DOHC was the block for the Theta engine, and subsequently the Theta-II. Direct injection usually adds 12% improvement to the engine (according to EPA) so one could expect significant gains in mileage even without a supercharger. The Theta-II’s asymmetrical piston head is hemispherical on one side and scooped on the other to “swirl” the igniting fuel-air mixture for increased efficiency. Indeed, the EPA rating of the Theta-II GDI in the Sorento struck a class-leading 22/32.
The proof of the fuel efficiency and the feel of the engine in the vehicle are in driving the Sorento. Consumer Reports claimed the 3.6 L V-6 got 20 mpg and the 2.4 L 4-Cylinder non-GDI got the same. I reasoned that with a GDI and my driving skills, I could get at least 12% more fuel efficiency. I even read this discussion, and like you, Tom, I decided that the owners complaining was from poor driving, or perhaps from mis-tuned engines. I was shocked to get 19.5 mpg on the first tank.
Is it my driving? I don’t think so. I owned a 2001 Honda Civic Hybrid with an EPA rating of 48/47, and I was one of the few who got 47.7 mpg—non-stop on the highway for 250 miles. The 13 gallon tank could theoretically go 600 miles before refueling, but it was more like 400-450 because the usual mileage was 42 mpg, and the dash reading was 15-20 percent inflated (the 47.7 actual mpg read 54 on the dash.) During the six years that I drove the hybrid, I averaged 37 mpg overall (all seasons, empty, full, city, highway) which was exactly what Consumer Reports reported as their average mileage! I unloaded the care early because my wife would not ride in it—she was not comfortable in the seat! But I learned how to save fuel: let the engine stop at each traffic light; accelerate slowly, avoid hills, and unlike the Prius, driving fast (70-80 mph) did not compromise the mileage. (There is an instantaneous mpg readout and a trip-odometer readout also, so you know exactly when you are doing your best.)
I just filled the tank in the Sorento-- 57 gallons in 1250 miles (21.9 mpg.) A disappointment, but I did register 24 mpg on the last fill-up: a 200 mile round trip mainly on highway. The dash read 29 mpg, an annoyance equal to the Honda’ inflated readings.
I expect my speedometer to be within 1-2% accuracy, and my tachometer and clock even better. There is no excuse for inaccurate measurement of fuel consumption. My 2001 Acura MDX was within 1% of actual mileage, and my Hyundai Sonata is within 2%.
Let’s hear from some new Sorento owners.
At no time did I ever say I was unemployed. Reading comprehension is not your strength.
I did not do spreadsheets or drive dozens of cars before buying my Sorento. I do drive a new car every couple of years, either through work or personal ownership. I did drive both a 4 cylinder GDI and the V6 before buying, and 2 trim models in both 2 wheel and AWD.
I had been interested in the Ford Ecotec engine in the F 150 and been considering that for purchase as well. I had crunched numbers on the Ecotech, but I didn't need a spreadsheet to figure out the cost savings in gas would take years to offset the higher purchase price.
Several publications at about that time, about a year a go, made the same observations. When I was considering the Sorento, it was immediately apparent that was the case with the GDI. It only gets 1 MPG more than the standard 4, why bother with it. None the less it is standard on the EX, which I test drove. It was to me clearly underpowered for California freeway driving. That is a matter of personal choice, but again, for only a 2 MPG difference for the greater power and torque of the V6, for me it was easy.
My point in all of this was that KIA has nothing to do with the EPA mileage ratings of their cars. Accusing them of being deceitful for stating EPA HWY miles on their advertising is absurd, EVERY carmaker does that. EPA mileage is for comparison between models and makes only.
It sounds like you have a possible defect with your GDI engine that should be uncovered and handled under warranty, although you did state that you achieved 25 MPG combined once. With most drivers, not achieving close to EPA mileage usually is a result of driving habits, load factor, under inflated tires, and % of highway vs. city.
I would suggest you contact the KIA Zone Service Manager, and make an appointment for him to examine the car on a dyno. If they don't work with you to resolve it, there are both state and Federal Lemon Laws that can use to force them to buy it back. Threatening them with class action lawsuits is not going to get you anywhere.
Good luck.
I’m also happy that you are gainfully employed, but on Sep 30, you wrote, “I do not work in the car industry, or in a support industry either. I am a car enthusiast ” As you have time to write so much, I assumed you were simply a car enthusiast.
I have no problem with reading comprehension, but I am analytical and read between the lines. I do wish you would quote numbers more carefully, since you wrote that I “achieved 25 MPG combined once,” but it was 24, if you check my post last night. I am very sensitive about those numbers. That was under optimum conditions (95% highway, constant speed, no A/C,) and I was hoping that the dash reading of 29 would be closer to the actual mpg. My combined actual mpg is 20.9 so far.
Most of us with angst are disappointed owners who are looking for the “fix” to make the gas mileage what was promised by the salespeople (“my wife gets 25 mpg on average and up to 32 on trips”) and the EPA estimates.
I discussed my problem with the local service manager, who told me that I would need five fill-ups with receipts, and only then would they examine my Sorento for abnormalities. He is very competent, and his staff of mechanics are better than average, but what can he do if the problem is with the design? I’ll be seeing him soon, but I need another fill-up since I lost the first receipt (rather embarrassing since I have receipts for all of my cars since 1966 with calculated mileage. Only my SUVs and my minivan were unable to get 32 mpg—but my VW bug, my Rabbits and the Squareback were underpowered compared to today’s cars.)
Note that EPA estimates “are for comparison” between vehicles as well as for CAFE standards. I have prepared a number of tables directly from the EPA site highlighting the failure of certain manufacturers to have “real-world” numbers that match the estimates. You can read the data at KIA 2WD on the EPA’s website http://www.fueleconomy.gov/mpg/MPG.do?action=browseList2&make=Kia&model=Sorento%- 202WD and note the “Shared MPG Estimates.” Pay close attention to the range. Nobody is reporting above 26 mpg, and this year’s figures are less than last year’s. Compare other CUV’s such as the Honda CR-V at http://www.fueleconomy.gov/mpg/MPG.do?action=browseList2&make=Honda&model=CR-V%2- 04WD Except for the 2011 model (2012 is a complete makeover) “Shared MPG Estimates” exceeds the EPA’s Highway figure under “range”. I’ll make my table available to anyone who is interested.
There's a few more data points in the Consumer Reviews here.
There's also True Delta but you have to sign up to see most of the data.
Good luck!
Take them all with grain of salt. Edmunds has most and best info often.
Cheers;
In addition, many posters on here claim the EPA mileage figures for the GDI are inflated, and they get nowhere near that mileage. In my opinion, since these claims make up a minority of GDI drivers, there is a problem with engines ECU, which should be covered under warranty. If the KIA dealer can't get them close to the EPA mileage after several visits, they should have recourse through Federal and State Lemon Law buy backs.
My advice is to go with the V6. It's only 1K more than the standard 4.
I get anywhere between 12mpg and 14 city and maybe 18-20 highway.
http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-five-lemon-20120930,0,2757139.story
My local dealer continues to stonewall. They say that my 22.4 mpg vehicle average F.E. (over 20,200 miles total) is "within spec." Now they won't even follow up with the test drive they initially offered to do and they have not offered to look at the ECU. I'm not sure what spec they are talking about, given that my current driving pattern is > 50% highway. The combined fuel economy, based on 45:55 city:highway should be 25 mpg.
You do make a very valid point about the break-even economics on the GDI vs the regular 4cylinder. At $3.60/gallon and 20,000 miles per year, the difference is $227/year if you use the sticker HWY fuel economy number for each.