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Still, what a POS it is and knowing how much restoration shops charge per hour I just don't see it being feasable. chrome work is SO expensive and even mechanical parts and repair are through the roof.
I have to assume that you are thinking the buyer would be able and capable of doing much of the work himself?
I don't doubt for a minute it'll go over 10,000. If that 55 did, this one should for sure!
I guess I'm living in the past.
Not like taking sometime nice and turning it into a gasser.
It'll be interesting to see what the high bid is.
In a bid to leverage this platform further, Plymouth added the Breeze to its '96 model lineup.
These cars sold in decent numbers in the '90s, but soon became popular in rental car fleets, selling mainly on price.
Andre, your relative silence regarding the Cloud Cars suggests that, like me, your high hopes soon turned to disappointment
I don't think the early versions were nearly as bad as the early versions of the Intrepid/Concorde, but they definitely had their problems. I've heard that the Mitsubishi 2.5 V-6 was actually a fairly decent engine, and it wasn't as hard on the 4-speed automatic as the bigger engines were in the Intrepid and such. The 2.4 unit, though, dated back to the old 2.2/2.5 in the K-cars, and was pretty raspy and rough.
Just like any Mopar from that era, the later year models were improved. But, also like most domestics in this class, the competition simply passed them by. I looked at a 2000 Stratus sedan the day I bought my Intrepid. It was the nicer ES model, with leather, sunroof, 2.5 V-6, power seat, and was priced about the same as my base Intrepid. I liked it, and definitely liked it a lot better than the Malibus that were also on the lot (Chevy/Dodge/Isuzu dealership), but I just wanted more car.
I liked the first-gen Sebring convertible, too
Unfortunately, for the 2001 redesign, I don't think they went far enough. I thought the styling was good, but the interiors seemed cheapened. I guess with Plymouth being phased out, they felt the need to cheapen the line to make it more attractive to rental car buyers.
Back in 2003 when my Dad wanted a car, we checked out the Stratuses, and drove an SXT 2.5 4-cyl. I really WANTED to like that car. I actually found it to be fairly comfortable, and legroom was good. But it just felt too cheap and basic. And I'm pretty sure the engine was still traceable back to the old K-car 4-cyl. For having 140-150 hp or whatever, it just seemed weak. I remember Dad asking me what I thought of it and I said that honestly, I didn't like it, and he said he was glad! He didn't like it himself, but was going to trust my opinion, so I guess it was a relief for him when he found out that I didn't like it either.
He ended up getting a used 2003 Regal ex-rental for something like $11K, and it was a lot more car for the money than those Stratuses, which I think were asking around $16-17K.
Initially, I liked the fact that they started offering the 2.7 in these cars for 2001, but that was before the problems with sludging, and the sky-high repair bills were known. Supposedly the water pump and timing chain are problem areas as well.
In retrospect, it's a shame that they didn't start offering the Mitsubishi 3.0 in these cars, like they did on the Stratus and Sebring coupes. I've heard it was a pretty decent engine (not to be confused with the older 3.0 from the 80's/90's that tended to burn oil)
I remember checking out a 2001 or so Stratus coupe, which had a lot more Mitsubishi heritage, and thinking that it was a better effort overall than the sedans! The interior seemed higher quality, and overall the car just seemed more "expensive".
Early cloud cars are a rare sight anymore, very telling.
I remember in 1999 when my mother was looking for a new car, she test drove a fairly loaded but 4cyl (I suspected an abandoned special order) Stratus. Seemed pretty raspy and loud. She bought yet another Taurus.
I remember a Chrysler marketing guy's comment around the time the Breeze was introduced, saying "we want to have fun with Plymouth." Don't know what he meant, but I remember thinking it's something one might say when he's desparate about the future of a brand. Come to think of it, the stickers correlate with that remark.
The 2.0/4-speed automatic (hey, at least they didn't try to go ultra-cheap and throw the 3-speed automatic in there!) was rated 22/31, while the 2.4/4-speed auto was rated 21/30. They also had a 2.0/5-speed manual that was rated 26/37, which is pretty impressive for a midsize car! I imagine few were equipped that cheaply, though.
Oh, and on fuel economy, that reminds me of another reason why I picked an Intrepid, over that Stratus I checked out. The Stratus with the 2.5 V-6 was rated 19/27, and only had something like 168 hp, while the Intrepid's 2.7 was rated at 20/29, and put out a class-leading 200 hp. The only way to get 200 hp from the Taurus was to get the optional Duratec 3.0, as the Vulcan only had something like 153 hp. And the Impala had a 3.4 with 180 hp standard, and you had to order the 3.8 to get to 200.
Cars like the Bonneville and LeSabre had a standard 3.8 with 205 hp, but they were also a lot more expensive.
Sometimes I wonder how things would have turned out if I had bought that 2000 Stratus ES back on November 6, 1999, rather than the Intrepid? I wonder if it would have been as reliable, and if I would have liked it as much, in the long run. I also drove a Dodge Ram that day, but the only Ram I could afford at the time was the 3.9 V-6 model, and, to be blunt, I thought it kinda sucked. :P
Yeah, probably, although it would have around 164,000 miles on it by now (had 150K when wrecked, and I've put 14K on the Park Ave).
The Trep actually saved me a bit on maintenance though, getting wrecked when it did. It was about due for a transmission service, which I tried to do roughly every 30,000 miles. Rear brake pads tended to last around 50,000 miles, so it was probably going to need them again soon. And, as preventive maintenance, I might have changed the battery by now.
Now, if the engine or transmission had gone out in that car, I would have junked it, but both were still working fine, so I'm sure they still had a few good years left.
Another odd look from GM for 1970 were the full sized Pontiacs, they looked alot less sporty than the 65-69 and the big grille was like an antique radiator.
I think Pontiac was trying to apply Grand Prix styling to the big cars for 1970, and that retro style, or "neoclassic" as they called it back then, was starting to come into vogue. It worked on the '69-70 Grand Prix, but I think the result was a bit less tasteful on the big cars. They were just too wide to wear a grille that narrow and tall, and it left too much room on either side. And trying to fill it in by spacing the headlights out a bit, and making the fake horn ports, which gave it a "6-headlight" look, just didn't work.
There is nothing at all good I can say about the Riv for that year though. Dunno what they were thinking. At least on the '70 Toro you could order the GT option which gave it the most power it would ever have along with a dual-cutout rear bumper like the 4-4-2.
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Regards;
Oldbearcat
Yikes, so close. Its too bad he couldn't hold on a litte bit longer and go for a 528i instead.
Regards:
Oldbearcat
That might seem like a drastic change in automotive choices, but I can see the rationale behind it. All you have to do is look at what the Toronado had turned into by 1977. Other than being big and heavy and FWD, it was nothing like the 1970.
I'm sure the '70 could be quite a handful, and probably nothing you'd want to take through the slalom at high speed, but at least it was still powerful, fast in straight line, and imparted a youthful, sporty look. Sure, not too many young'uns bought them, but that's because they were expensive and out of reach.
By 1977, the Toronado was even bigger and heavier, and powered by a slightly hopped-up Olds 403 that might have put out 190-200 hp (it put out 185 in most other applications). It was pimpy and bloated and cushy, and was doing its damndest to isolate the passengers from the world outside. And that youthful spirit was, for the most part, gone. Although that XS model with the wraparound rear window was pretty cool, but it wasn't enough to make up for everything else.
Personally I like those big 70's Toronados, but if I wanted something that handled well and had some performance to it, it wouldn't be my first choice!
That was in the works, and I think even made it into the brochures, but unfortunately the retractable T-tops were troublesome. I believe only one or two prototypes were built, but it never made it to mass production. Even the XS model was pretty rare. I believe only around 3,000 were built.
I heard this particular car now resides in Rockville, MD.
Also these cars suffer from horrible gas mileage (as low as 12 mpg) and pernicious rust issues in the wheel wells.
Regards:
Oldbearcat
Regards:
Oldbearcat
For new, the prices weren't that low, and other than in the V, the mechanicals were nothing special. Combined with boring interiors, hard sell.
Dad was a character to be sure. My mother also loved the BMW - she was a closet drag racer. She also loved to drive my Grandfather's 66 Olds Cutlass. It was an unassuming looking green 4 door, but, under the hood lurked a high performance 330 4 bbl rocket engine coupled to a 2 speed automatic. In a red light Grand Prix, few cars at the time could beat it.
Regards:
Oldbearcat
Regards:
Oldbearcat
I never understood this brand loyalty thing so much. I try to get the best car for me at the time I need a car, independent of who makes it.
I know I would absolutely hate my E55 if I was 80 years old, ride is too harsh.
For brand loyalty, some cars tend to feel the same over the years, and some people simply like a brand and its heritage. That's how it is for me anyway.
Besides, you could argue that cars are now much closer in style and reliability than they've ever been in history.
Regards:
Oldbearcat
Regards:
Oldbearcat
Despite its strong attributes, though, the 5000 (and its refreshed and renamed successors, the 100 and 200), had significant counterbalacing negatives. Chief among these were that they were very high maintenance cars.
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