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2012 Ford Focus

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Comments

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I'm surprised that the Power Moonroof can be ordered with the SFE Package. It has always been my experience that a large hole in the roof creates substantial drag!

    They must measure the FE with the roof closed.

    I'll take the 38 mpg w/o all the heroics, costs, and compromises, thank you.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    I think it depends on what you're watching. Sporting event seem to have a lot of the hamster commercials versus the Optima. Younger demographic for the sporting events has them spending their money on the hipster Soul versus the family sedan. Targeted marketing versus the shotgun approach.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    In other words... everything BUT the Forte hatch. ;)
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Yeah, I can't remember seeing any ad on the Forte 5dr on TV or in print! I love the exterior but the dash, console and steering wheel leave me cold.
  • hackattack5hackattack5 Member Posts: 315
    I just test drove a 2012 Focus SE that the dealer got in a couple days ago. I thought it was going to be a no brainer but I am having a hard time deciding between the focus and the fiesta. Focus is bigger but from what I have read its not going to get 40mpg. The dealer thought I was crazy when I told him I wasn't sure which one I am going to buy.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    The SFE option is rated 40 mpg highway. But 38 w/o it... not bad at all.

    I checked out the Fiesta at my local auto show last week and it's a no-op for me--back seat is way too tight, and costs just a little less than a larger car e.g. Elantra. The Focus was "hands off." So I'll be interested to check it out once it arrives at my local dealer. Reviews I've read have been very positive.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    edited March 2011
    of the new world order 2012 Ford Focus. It's got an intelligent front end design, it draws you in to look closer, then it's doesn't aesthetically disappoint at all. Very, very, very cool design on the new 2012 Ford Focus.

    image
    It's the aesthetically-pleasing splittage of the grille

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    Have you calculated your fuel cost per miles driven?

    I know for me, 38 or 40 mpg doesn't make much of a $ difference.
  • hackattack5hackattack5 Member Posts: 315
    Backy:
    The Focus has 2" more leg room in the back seat than the Fiesta. I have attached the comparison. Look how close in size everything is. I read reports from car and driver and motor trend and they are getting around 27mpg with the focus. I know they drive like crazy people but that tells me that its going to be more like the Elantra and get in the low 30s versus closer to 40mpg. Plus my local Ford dealer will sell me a Fiesta for under invoice and they are not dealing on the Focus so an equally optioned Fiesta SES hatch is about $4000.00 cheaper than the Focus
    http://www.edmunds.com/car-comparisons/?veh1=101266476|hatchback&veh2=101364703|- sedan&show=0|1|2|3|4|5|6|7|8&comparatorId=2834308
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Hmmm... I don't think 2" more will be enough, but I'll have to do a sit test. I think the MT review said the Focus' rear seat was a little tight in leg room. Some review I read recently said that anyway.

    No wonder they aren't dealing yet on the Focus... it isn't even officially "on sale" yet! And it's a new design, and by all accounts one of the best cars in the class. Probably not much in the way of discounts for some time.
  • hackattack5hackattack5 Member Posts: 315
    backy: I guess it comes down to what you will use the car for. I need a car to get to work, grocery, and take 1 kid to sports. I will probably wait to see how the gas mileage works out on the Focus because if it is really averages in the low 30s I will be dissapointed because my wifes Fusion gets 28mpg. I really want to get something close to 40mpg.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    You should get 40 easy in highway driving, if you don't flog it. But not in driving around town. You'd need something like a Prius for that.
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    Right now the push from manufactures is to get the HWY MPG at 40mpg...looks good on commercials. To do that they tweak the aerodynamics and add the 6th speed to the transmission; however, neither of these things helps with the City MPG. I've noticed the spread between the city & highway MPG rating for a car seems to be getting wider.

    In reality, we do a lot of driving at speeds between 30-45mph will stop signs and traffic lights. For this type of driving, a HWY rating of 40 or 38 won't make much difference. Now if 90% of your driving is in conditions where you can keep the transmision in 6th gear at 65mph at a constant speed, then the 40MPG rating might be a benefit. But if you're in the high gear yet at every grade or passing situation the transmission drops to 5th, so you're bouncing the transmission back and forth between 5th and 6th gears you'll have a lot of wasted energy and so all these refinements might not get used.

    You really need to measure about how much highway vs non highway miles you'll be driving, and then determine if you need something with good city, good highway, or a good mixed use mpg.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Many larger cars get almost as good as fuel economy as smaller ones. Check the EPA on the Focus versus the Fiesta. They are almost identical and the Focus is quite a bit larger. If you look at all the exterior and interior dimensions you will find the Focus to be substantially bigger. I think the rear seat legrroom dimension you referenced is about the smallest difference of all the measurements. It's about a foot longer, 5 inches wider, much more hip and shoulder room and has much more storage capacity behind the rear seat.

    I would doubt that in normal 50/50 city/hwy driving there would be more than a 2-3 mpg difference on average. In fact, on a straight hwy trip I think the Focus would probably beat the Fiesta.
  • gambit293gambit293 Member Posts: 406
    One of my local Ford dealers has a Titanium hatchback for $27,835 sticker price. Yikes, I thought, until I realized you can price one even higher at Ford.com, if you go crazy with options. That's a lot of cash for the C-segment, though I guess such is the price (literally) for the segment going upscale.
  • markus5markus5 Member Posts: 102
    edited March 2011
    Considering some of the thoughts expressed on the current discussion, my opinion is that the last two entries are about right on the mark. EPA mileages are only good guidposts ( and they have been refined over the years), but they do not exactly match the everday driving situation of a particular individual. Conditions vary around the country: temperature, altitudes, road surfaces, traffic patterns certainly and probably as important as any of these factors is the driver inputs to the throttle and brakes. On acceleration sometimes you will find different manufacturers have spent much engineering efforts on something called " "throttle tip-in".
    I suspect that as the previous two blogs have said, that a Prius will get the high mileage ratings because it is inherently designed not to waste energy of a vehicle in motion. When I drive keeping that principle in mind, my mileage goes up noticeably. These new Focuses are probably even more driver performance oriented than the older ones, and I suspect many if not most people will drive them that way. Lets face it, the Focus people who are anticipating the arrival of the new one, will not be satisfied by the dynamics of a Prius.
    On that front Last Friday, here in Albany NY , the N.E. new car dealers had their annual car exhibit. Only one Hatchback was there which they did not let anybody in. ( It was a pre-production job they said ) Several Company reps were there who were very helpful They gave everyone who signed up a $50 credit card for doing a test drive at their local dealers. Local dealers do not have any cars to drive or even see. At last years show they did a similar promotion for the Fiesta which I did not buy but got the $50 any way for testing out the new Mustang 6 Convertable. Not a bad deal i would say.
  • fordcustsrvcfordcustsrvc Member Posts: 27
    hackattack5,

    This is Seni with Ford Customer Service. Have you considered which vehicle has the better incentives? We would be happy to look up any local area incentives on the Focus or the Fiesta, please feel free to call the Ford Marketing Headquarters at 800-334-4375, at your convenience. You may also check out www.Ford.com/Incentives, for local incentives on all of your favorite Ford vehicles.

    Seni
    Ford Customer Service Division
  • hackattack5hackattack5 Member Posts: 315
    Seni:
    Yes I am a pro on incentives. Right now my local Ford dealer will sell me a Fiesta SES for just under Factory invoice. I will also get a $500.00 rebate and a $500.00 Car show rebate and just because I went to Ford.com and asked for a brochure I got a $750.00 private offer so the Fiesta is way cheaper than the Focus right now. I am waiting for an Focus SEL to be delivered to my Ford dealer and give it one last test drive before I purchase the Fiesta. I figure I can not go wrong with either one of them.
  • hackattack5hackattack5 Member Posts: 315
    I agree with you. There is no replacement for displacement so "I will believe it when I see it" when a 160hp Focus that weighs 400 pounds more gets the same gas mileage as the 120 hp Fiesta. To me its all about the gas mileage without getting into the hybrid arena. I may be sorry down the road but right now at these gas prices I am paying $3300.00 a year for gas for my current ride. I really believe that gas will hit $5.00 a gallon this year.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Don't know where you read "gets the same gas mileage" but 2-3 mpg difference is not that much and from everything I've read in reviews and looking at EPA estimates that is all the difference is. I think the new Elantra gets about the same MPG as the Fiesta and that has 148hp and weighs more than the Fiesta. It's not just a matter of weight/hp. Gearing and aerodynamics also play a role.

    Sometimes a small engine can be worked so hard that a bigger engine will actually be close(notice I said close, not the exact same) in MPG results.
  • hackattack5hackattack5 Member Posts: 315
    Fiesta (city/hwy) 29/40 mpg / 2012 Focus (city/hwy) 28/40 mpg Ford.com is where I am getting it from. What I am trying to tell you if you research all the resources that are out there you will find (like I have) that the Fiesta's actual overall average gas mileage is higher than advertised and the focus looks like its going to be lower. Now granted with the Focus all the data is coming from Motor Trend and Car and Driver where they drive crazy so maybe it will not be so bad but the last article I read was they were getting 27mpg average with the Focus. if you drive down hill at 60mph on the freeway for the whole tank of gas you will get 40mpg in the Focus or the Elantra but it also proves that if you drive a mix everyday that you will be closer to 30mpg than 40mpg in those cars. That is all I am saying. I need a car to drive the mix and get over 35mpg I drive 20,000 miles a year so 6mpg = close to $500.00 a year at soon to be $4.00 a gallon. Gas is only going to get higher my friends. Have you ever heard of peak oil? look it up
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    edited March 2011
    I go by EPA as all cars are tested the same way and I personally have never had trouble getting the EPA hwy mpg with any car I've owned and I drive quite normal. I don't go by car magazine tests as they drive the pi$$ out of them and many consumer testimonials are suspect.

    The 28/40 mpg on the Focus you are citing is only with the SFE option and is not the standard Focus which is only 38mpg hwy. Maybe you could cite some of "all the resources that are out there" as I just haven't seen it and I also haven't seen a lot of tests on the Focus that indicate that it will do poorer than the estimated EPA numbers. Car magazines are not trying to drive normally for MPG, in fact they drive the opposite as you well know.

    I would expect the Focus to come in at around 3 mpg less combined which is not that much less than the Fiesta. But if it's absolutly the highest MPG you want, the Fiesta should definitely return the better numbers.

    Where does the 6 mpg come from? Are you comparing a Car&Driver test of the Focus to the EPA estimate of the Fiesta or what?
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    edited March 2011
    Keep in mind that when Car & Driver tested the Fiesta they only got 29 mpg from it; not a heck of a lot better than what they got from the much more powerful Focus.

    From my perspective, you're making a mountain out of a mole hill; I seriously doubt you're going to see even a three mpg difference between the two cars (unless you drive the Focus for all its worth but would otherwise baby a Fiesta). Long story short, I'm betting your annual fuel costs wouldn't differ by even $200 between the Fiesta and the Focus.

    While I'm on the subject of annual fuel costs; if you really want to minimize them, buy a VW Golf TDI. No Ford sold in North America can touch the TDI from a fuel cost perspective.
  • hackattack5hackattack5 Member Posts: 315
    edited March 2011
    "No Ford sold in North America can touch the TDI from a fuel cost perspective"

    http://www.edmunds.com/car-comparisons/?veh1=101335600&veh2=101266476|hatchback&- - - show=0|1|2|3|4|5|6|7|8&comparatorId=2401190

    Really? Really?
    looks like $5.00 a month difference to me. How many months will it take you to recover your initial price difference of the diesel? ;)
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    edited March 2011
    While the EPA MPG tests provide roughly a level playing field when comparing gasoline powered cars, that same test reports results which are notoriously low for diesel powered cars. In the real world it is a lead pipe cinch to drive a TDI on the highway and get over 50 mpg. While I can easily believe the Focus and Fiesta are capable of a bit over 40 mpg on the highway, they're no where near as capable as the TDIs.

    As for the initial cost of ownership, you have to compare apples to apples (i.e. the Golf to the Focus), and when you do you'll see that depending upon options, the Focus is more expensive (significantly so in some cases) than the Golf.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Yeah, I have to agree on the diesel. It's only in about 50% of the gas stations around me, it's oily/messy and costs quite a bit more than reg gas around me as well. Don't know what kind of fuel prices Edmunds is using in their comparison(maybe some kind of national average) because the price spread between reg gas and diesel can be pretty sporadic in different areas of the country. Some places it's close to the same and others it's .30-.50 more a gallon. That difference would certainly influence any payback equation.

    Where did the $5.00 a month come from anyway? The comparison shows a $2 a month difference based on 15k miles a year. You said you drive twenty so it would only be about a $3 a month difference...not to get anal about it but just wondering where it came from. Since TDIs cost about $1200 to $1500 more than comparable gas engines it could take a long, long time for any payback at all.

    To be fair though, I think shipo might have meant fuel economy, ie. MPG in which case he'd be right. It's not really comparable as the Fiesta is 20% lighter and a smaller vehicle. However, the Golf and Focus would be a lot more comparable.......getting back on topic before the hosts slam us.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    I think he was referring to the upcharge for the diesel engine versus the gas in the same vehicle. I know it can hard to determine exactly because when you get the TDI it automatically comes equipped a certain way if I remember correctly. I've always estimated it to be around $1200-$1500 and I think I've read those numbers being thrown around before too.

    I have to agree that diesel owners report some fantastic numbers but I've also read a lot of gasser forums where some pretty far fetched numbers are reported. There are people that say they consistenly get 40-45 mpg on the hwy with their Camrys and Accords. I find it very hard to believe unless their drafting a semi all the time or driving 50mpg in a 70 zone both of which is extremely dangerous IMO.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    edited March 2011
    A few comments:

    1) Please understand that I'm not advocating a TDI over say a Focus, I was just trying to illustrate that paying too much attention MPG numbers can be a never ending process. The truth is that the difference in monthly fuel costs between any of the cars being discussed here is completely insignificant when the overall cost of driving any given number of miles is considered. FWIW, if I had to buy a car today and had to choose between a Focus and a Golf TDI; I'd probably opt for the Focus.

    2) When I said fuel costs that is what I meant, driven like for like, a diesel engined car will cost significantly less fuel wise than a comparable gasoline fueled car, even if diesel is $.50 per gallon more expensive than Regular Unleaded.

    3) The thing about folks claiming high mileage is that those that drive diesels don't need to resort to on-road heroics to coax high mileage from their cars; all they need to do is drive them normally. Gasoline powered cars, not so much.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    When I said fuel costs that is what I meant, driven like for like, a diesel engined car will cost significantly less fuel wise than a comparable gasoline fueled car, even if diesel is $.50 per gallon more expensive than Regular Unleaded.

    Agreed. Same size/weight of vehicle the diesel will win hands down in fuel cost unless diesel prices go thru the roof and gas prices don't. Not likely.
  • gambit293gambit293 Member Posts: 406
    I might have a chance to test drive a 2012 soon, so I want to make sure I understand the suspension availability.

    There are TWO suspensions available, correct? The "normal" suspension available across all trims, and then the Sport Suspension available only with the Titanium 18-inch package?

    Note that there is an Sport package available for the SE, but if you click on the details, there aren't any changes to the actual suspension itself. There are larger wheels, better brakes, and several cosmetic items in the SE Sport Package.
  • markus5markus5 Member Posts: 102
    edited March 2011
    If different wheels & tires (size/aspect ratios) are included in an upgrade package, and, you also mention larger brakes, this will be more "unsprung weight". These factors would necessitate certain incremental adjustments to the "normal" suspension settings. It seems to me that this is going to be the case, from an engineering standpoint whether or not you are seeing specific mention of it in the literature that is generally available.
    Have a good DRIVE !
    I will be waiting for an opportunity to have one myself. Hopefully without the salesperson sitting there yapping at me.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    The SE Sport Package doesn't include "larger brakes", it includes "rear disk brakes" which if anything weight slightly less than rear drum brakes. As for larger diameter wheels and unsprung weight, there have been many studies done which illustrate quite convincingly that 16" to 17" wheels are the sweet spot for wheel size from a handling perspective. Larger than that and the rotational mass and unsprung weight both start working against the suspension to a high enough degree to degrade handling.

    Said another way, for any car that doesn't require 18" or larger wheels to fit around the brakes, the best handling option is to go for a slightly smaller wheel. Relative to the Ford Focus, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a Focus SE with 16" or 17" wheels and the Sport Package (for the rear disk brakes) turn in better lap times on a tight track than a Focus Titanium with the "Titanium Handling Package".
  • gambit293gambit293 Member Posts: 406
    The SE Sport Package creates an odd interplay among the 3 trim lines. From what I can tell, many but not all, of the SE Sport Package features are standard in the SEL and Titanium. Namely, the cosmetic items and the rear disc brakes are standard in the SEL.

    I can't quite tell if the 16 inch wheels in the SE Sport Package are the same as the 16 inch wheels standard in the SEL. The ford.com trim comparison would seem to suggest that they are different wheels.

    Also, the sport seats in the SE Sport Package are standard in the Titanium but not even available as an option for the SEL. However, both the SEL and Titanium can be upgraded to leather seats. It's kind of odd that a feature jumps over the midline trim.
  • fordcustsrvcfordcustsrvc Member Posts: 27
    hackattack5,

    I think you are right on! You can not go wrong with either vehicle. The fuel economy, affordability and your incentives make this a very sweet deal! Enjoy your Fiesta or Focus!

    Seni
    Ford Customer Service Division
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    I think the mish-mash of features on the different trim levels of the Focus is Ford's attempt to semi-placate those of us that like our premium options (climate control, high end audio, auto wipers...) in a car with some sportiness and a manual transmission.

    Thinking about the above statement further, the SEL seems to be the luxo version, and in that model the lack of a manual transmission is kind of irrelevant; the lack of a manual in the sportier Titanium is another matter entirely. Had Ford simply allowed the Titanium to be configured with a stick, then the option list for the SE could have been limited and caused far less confusion for the buying public.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    edited March 2011
    I do believe that Ford found in its research that the American buying public doesn't know how to drive a stick or doesn't want a stick bad enough for them to build the Titanium model with a stick shift option. It is a dying breed, having said that, the 2012 Ford Focus that I love the most is the one with the stick, the SE. I liked the wheels I saw on it, too. Still interested in the car and I will not buy until 2013, so a lot can happen between now and then. Would love to get a good, competent stereo with the SE model, interested in how many watts the best stereo Ford offers in an SE model would have.

    image
    2012 Ford Focus SE in Alan Mulally blue...I...I mean Ford blue!

    Man, I like the SE model in this blue. I am popping the 2012 Ford Focus SE in 5-speed manual trim back up above the 2012 Kia Rio on the top of my future purchases list. That is if Mitsubishi doesn't tempt me with another Lancer GTS or Lancer GTS Hybrid.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "I do believe that Ford found in its research that the American buying public doesn't know how to drive a stick or doesn't want a stick bad enough for them to build the Titanium model with a stick shift option."

    I don't buy that argument even in the least. My bet is that Ford is basing their decisions on flawed data from the previous generation Focus (a horrifically boring vehicle that was semi-popular in stick form only because it was cheap) instead of looking at cars like the Mazda3 (a car which budget minded enthusiasts flock to). By contrast, the new Focus has completely shed its crappy econobox (in North American form) cloak and moved squarely into the enthusiast realm occupied by the Mazda3 and European variants of the Focus.

    From a simplicity (in both marketing and manufacturing) perspective it would be so much cleaner for Ford to offer a manual (say the current 5-Speed) in a trim with limited options (call it SE-lite) for the economy minded folks of the same ilk that bought the previous Focus with a stick. For the folks which would otherwise opt for a Mazda3 GT 6-Speed they could offer the Titanium with say a 6-Speed manual. From my perspective, ugly though the new Mazda3 may well be (I like the looks of my current Mazda3 but it won't last forever) and with as poor as the relative fuel economy numbers are, I'm much more inclined to buy a new Mazda over the Focus simply because Mazda hasn't forsaken the enthusiast.
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    edited March 2011
    15,000/40mpg x $3.5 gas price per gallon = $1312 Total price with Gas
    15,000/50mpg x $4.0 diesel price per gallon = $1200 Total price with Diesel.

    Or the formula is that (15,000 x $3.5) / 40 mpg = $1312. If you make mpg the variable, then the formula would be (miles x gas price) / total cost = mpg, or 15,000 x 3.5 / 1312 = 40mpg. So if you spent $1200 in diesel, the equivilant mpg for gas would be 15,000 x $3.5 / 1200 = 43.75mpg. So if you can get 44mpg in your gas car, than that's the same as getting 50mpg in a diesel.

    I'd say based on your highway driving style, if you're able to obtain 50mpg in a TDI (that has an EPA estimated MPG of 42) then you can just as well obtain 44mpg in a Focus (that has an EPA estimated MPG of 40).

    Of course these are just in the best highway conditions. Most folks won't be spending their time cruising down a flat highway at 60mph 100% of the time except maybe on long road trips. Average MPG is more likely what folks will get. And even calculating average mpg people get mixed up.

    If a car can get 44mpg on the highway, but only 30mpg around town and if you drive 50% of the time on the highway and 50% around town, some folks would split the difference and say that their average was 37mpg...wrong.

    If you drive a tank with 200 miles around town at 30mpg you'll use 6.67gal, and you'll use 4.54gal to drive 200 miles on the highway at 44mpg. That's 11.21gal used to drive 400 miles, which equals 35.68mpg, not 37mpg. It's not a big difference, but it can make more of a difference depending on the spread between your highway and city mpg. \

    Even if you drive 400 miles and 90% (360miles 8.18gal) is on the highway at 44mpg, that 10% (40miles 1.33gal) of city at 30mpg will make your average mpg drop to 42.06 (9.51gal used to drive 400 miles). If your "real" city driving was only getting you 20mpg that 10% of your driving would drop your average down to 39.29mpg. So you really need to look at a lot more than just the highway mpg in the best possible conditions.

    If you're prepared to spend in the low $20K range for a car to maximize mpg, you'd be better off buying a Prius II that averages 50mpg according to the EPA, (and like TDI and most other cars, people report getting better than the EPA estimates due to their driving habits) that comes in about the same price as the Golf in the below link. Of course not wouldn't be the time to buy one with the current fuel prices and situation in Japan.

    http://www.edmunds.com/car-comparisons/?veh1=101335600&veh2=101266476|hatchback&- - - veh3=101363292&veh4=101364749|hatchback&show=0|1|2|3|4|5|6|7|8&comparatorId=2401- - - 190

    It's interesting when comparing the Fiesta to the Focus that the Fiesta actually has more front seat headroom then the Focus.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    The flaw in your argument is that it assumes diesel will remain static at a 14% premium over regular unleaded. Around here (New England) diesel prices fluctuate annually from a few cents lower than regular unleaded to a few cents more than premium unleaded.
  • markus5markus5 Member Posts: 102
    edited March 2011
    Is there any real advantage to using E-85. The Edmunds stat sheet mentions flex -fuel capability for new focus ?( i was surprised to see that for the first time. Is it a misprint ?). Around here I saw $2.99 vs. $3.75 for unleaded regular. I have heard some of the stories about this product. Some say that it is horrible will ruin your engine, others say that the only detriment is that it simply will not deliver all the energy (and MPG) of the petroleum based product. Does EPA use the Flex fuel for their mpg statistics on vehicles that are designated as flex fuel ? (confused now)
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    As far as I know the "EPA tests" are actually performed by the manufacturers (with the EPA spot checking to make sure there is no cheating), and the manufacturers use either 100% gasoline or E10 (10% Ethanol). If you run E85 in an engine designed to run on that fuel, then no harm will come to the engine, however, your fuel economy will drop significantly as E85 contains far fewer calories of potential energy for any given volume when compared to gasoline.
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    Around where I live (Ohio) 87 octane is around $3.59 while diesel is over $4.00. Your correct in that depending on the price difference, this may or may not be a factor, but I've always noticed diesel coming in at 20-50cents higher than 87 octane.

    What about anyone else?
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    edited March 2011
    Splitting hairs here; you cannot buy "87 Octane" anywhere in Ohio. That said, what you can buy is a fuel with an AKI (Anti Knock Index) of 87. To the best of my knowledge the only places in the Continental 48 where one can buy gasoline with an octane rating of roughly 87 (which has an AKI rating of about 83) is up in the higher elevations of the Rocky Mountains.

    As for diesel prices versus gasoline, I read something a year or two back that looked at national averages and calculated diesel to slot in between Regular Unleaded and Premium Unleaded on a per gallon cost basis. Granted periodic and regional swings to one extreme or the other can dramatically alter the cost per mile, but even when diesel is more expensive that Premium Unleaded, it is still the least expensive fuel on a per mile basis that we can buy.
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    I did a couple of checks on this website, where you can enter any location:

    http://www.daytongasprices.com/GasPriceSearch.aspx?fuel=A&qsrch=Boston,%20MA

    For Boston, the lowest regular gas was in the $3.30s and $3.80s for diesel
    For Bangor, Maine, it was $4.14 for diesel and $3.50 for regular.
    City gas/diesel
    Denver $3.24/$3.59
    Phoenix $3.35/$3.69
    Atlanta $3.29/$3.55
    New York $3.59/$3.99
    Pittsburgh $3.37/$3.87

    So I'd stick to my previous post's calculations, in that if you're getting 50mpg in a diesel, that's equal to about 44mpg in a gas car because of the extra cost of buying diesel.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    You cannot stick to your previous calculations because this it the time of the year (at the tail end of the home heating oil season) when diesel is always at its highest point relative to gasoline.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    Does the Focus offer a diesel in the US?

    Has anybody driven the Focus? We've lost focus of the thread (cheap one...)

    Impressions?

    For a base hatch it starts $3k more than the Fiesta; is it $3k better? Not to turn this into a comparison board that is...

    I haven't seen any Focus...Focuses...Foci (?) at any dealers yet.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    No diesel here in the US.

    I've seen one with dealer plates on the road last week, as well as one I saw at the recent local auto show (but wasn't allowed to sit inside).
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,146
    Yes, please.

    A little off-topic convo is fine, but we've pretty much lost direction in this discussion, so let's try to swing it back around.

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  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    Last post on this. From this webpage showing annual prices:

    http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pri_gnd_dcus_nus_a.htm

    Year/Gas/Diesel/% extra for diesel
    2005/2.27/2.40/5.7%
    2006/2.57/2.71/5.4%
    2007/2.80/2.89/3.2%
    2008/3.25/3.80/16.9%
    2009/2.35/2.47/5.1%
    2010/2.78/2.99/7.6%

    Average % cost increase for diesel since 2005 = 7.3%

    So I'll admit I was wrong to calculate a 15% premium on the price of diesel when the premium is only 7.3% since 2005. So that means if you compare a diesel getting 50mpg it's equal to a gas car getting 46.5mpg because of the 7.3% additional cost for using diesel fuel.

    So if you can get in the low 40s MPG with the Focus on pure highway driving, then it's pretty close to the diesel mpg if you figure in the cost of diesel.
  • gambit293gambit293 Member Posts: 406
    "I might have a chance to test drive a 2012 soon"

    . . . or not. I didn't realize inventory listings on dealer sites simply reflect vehicles that have been allocated, though not necessarily delivered. I just spoke to three area dealers. One had one 2012 Focus, which had arrived several hours before I called. It had already been test driven around 3 or 4 times. The rep I talked to said he did not think it would be around for further tests for much longer. He said he has received about 30 calls today for the "hot" Focus.

    Normally, I might dismiss a lot of this as puffery, but it seems believeable for the 2012 Focus.
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