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2012 Ford Focus

145791027

Comments

  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    edited April 2011
    I just don't remember many US auto writers raving about the Focus in ride quality, steering feel or amenities until this 2012 model which is what this discussion is supposed to be about.

    Car&Driver immediately gave it "10 Best" award since the beginning. Since this is really a German car, it had (a matured, very well developed non-intrusive) optional stability control (Advance Trak) in this country since 2001. That's ahead of all competitors!

    Consumer Reports gave the 2006 Focus SES sedan high marks in steering feel, ride comfort & handling (including accident-avoidance maneuver) as if no body else does them better! Even the early Focus SVT hatch trumped just about everything else on the road w/ very high overall score, beating the Mini Cooper in both ride & handling.

    The old Focus only charged just over $100 for the optional heated front seats. The tilt-&-telescopic steering column had optional remote for the in-dash 6-disk changer stereo w/ MP3 player, subwoofer & Sony speakers.

    The new Focus may be quieter, but its extra bulk of un-compact width combining w/ shrunkened rear leg room worse than even many tiny cars is quite laughable, though.
  • samm43samm43 Member Posts: 195
    And hanging off most of them (but especially CR) instead of your own seat-of-the-pants test is amusing, but generally not much more help than that. I have seen them contradict themselves often depending on what the flavor of the week/month/season was that year (or whether enough green was slipped under the table upon contract signing when the host cars are picked up).

    And I sure don't support any believe that just because CR has no advertisements, that their reporting reputation is neither consistent or squeaky clean. I have seen their reporting off and on for at least 4 decades. Their FOR (frequency of repair) charts seem to have the most merit and usefulness to a car-shopper. Through my own knowledge I have seen trends that they reported similar findings. But when I see them do a "Not Recommended", I will decide that for myself, thank you very much. I have seen too many of those with vehicles that lost that recommendation over silly things that were never actually substantiated beyond their slanted tests.

    Above comments, are my opinion but have a pretty good feeling they will not be met with much concurrence among a group who hold auto mags in high regard.

    Whenever I read about noise-levels (and if they elaborate on wind versus road, engine, at certain speeds and pavement surfaces, all the better) ride and steering feel (which is a tough one due to varying tactility preferences, that you basically have to build upon due to a certain writer's style that you can relate their previous reporting on that you were able to relate to on personal experience and then see that pattern) then I am always interested and look for a trend among all the reporting.

    I am very interested to check out the Focus when I get a chance. Hopefully the base, or near base trim still has enough niceties that it could be a contender for my next car. I was interested to read that it has higher profile tires than the equivalent trimmed Elantra. It may be a small item to some but is one of importance to my comparisons. I still long for the return of the custom optioned car order. I'll take heated leather seats (and wheel), no power but same adjustability, wind up windows, keyless entry, cruise, high-end audio, no sunroof, a stick, no auto headlights, dimming rearview mirrrors, climate controls, 15 or 16" rims, and I don't want to read that trailer towing (even a 1000lb light duty trailer) is "Not Recommended" and if so, then tell why so I can make my own deductions of whether I am risking my warranty, because no doubt they will use that as an escape clause on a claim no matter whether it was the culprit or not. This recent heads-up came to light when reading the fine-print on the 'Eco' Cruze.

    I really like the styling of the Focus from any angle I have seen it so far. Has that wonderful steering feel been accomplished without electric assist? If so, I am even more onboard with that.

    Sam
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    edited April 2011
    And hanging off most of them (but especially CR) instead of your own seat-of-the-pants test is amusing, but generally not much more help than that. I have seen them contradict themselves often depending on what the flavor of the week/month/season was that year (or whether enough green was slipped under the table upon contract signing when the host cars are picked up).

    Even after taking the bribe, they can still give you the hint if you read b/t the lines. When they were bribed to shut up, then they can't reveal what's wrong w/ the product, but can still compliment the other products instead. When any negative comment were revealed, they are likely to be telling the truth & that's where one should pay much attention to. Using these info to remind you is especially useful when test driving the car yourself.

    I was interested to read that it has higher profile tires than the equivalent trimmed Elantra.

    I really prefer the set up on the Rabbit -- 205/55-16, & decided to apply this formula whether it's an '07 Focus or '99 BMW E36.

    Has that wonderful steering feel been accomplished without electric assist?

    The new Focus is switching to pure electric assist, therefore not as much feel as before. But even the pure-electric-assist steering in the RX-8 is very confident inspiring despite not providing the very detailed stuff the way my '90 Protege DOHC does.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    edited April 2011
    But the Elantra has been well regarded for many years, e.g. #2 in C/D compact face-off of 2002 models, 1/2 point behind Protege, and in recent years CR's top-rated small car. Which is where the 2011 Elantra sits now.

    I was aware of how the redesigned '01 Civic w/ front struts got ranked behind the Elantra by CR. That's why I also collected an '00 Civic. Having these Double Wishbones all around is amazing -- even w/ only 185/65-14 T-rated Michellin Hydro Edge tires & std suspension, the car holds the road really well & drifts very evenly w/ no surprises. Only the slow-ratio light steering w/ no feel ruins the fun.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    (or whether enough green was slipped under the table upon contract signing when the host cars are picked up).

    Any proof to offer? It amuses when people do this and accuse the auto mags of fraud. I agree they might not be the best and sometimes make mistakes but to accuse them of outright fraud? I've never seen anyone bring any proof that this goes on other than that the mags may contradict themsleves sometimes which may even be because two different writers may have differing opinions. IMO it's just childish to keep perpetuating these accusations unless they can backed up. There has never been any study or expose that major advertisers in auto mags make payoffs of any kind or that any of the mags is directly influenced by advertising dollars. Many of these mags have been in business for decades and not one disgruntled employee has ever came out with "the dirt". Strange isn't it.

    Same with CR, they may not be the best in the auto testing arena but not being "clean" is quite an accusation. Being inconsistent or even wrong is totally different than "accepting bribes under the table". Those kind of accusations are just sickening to me and really don't belong in an adult discussion.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    edited April 2011
    I've noticed how some car magazines are afraid to criticize things like ride comfort or steering feel. If you test drive the Mazda3 after reading some car magazines, most likely you will be shocked by the ride, which feels like the tires are made of concrete. A lot of times we hear how precise Audi A4's steering is, but that's only 1/2 the story. Drive the car yourself & you'll find out how lacking the feel is, unless you're coming from a Toyota.

    When I test drove the Focus, the steering feel was great if I was driving my Corolla on the way to the Ford dealer, but not when arrived in my Protege.

    When the E46 BMW first came out, the base model w/ 15" rims was ranked a close 2nd place behind the A4 by Car&Driver. They never criticized Audi's lack of steering feel, but did compliment BMW's steering feel.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    Believe me, if the older Focus was the best thing since sliced bread it would have had a lot larger following as it was huge in the rental car world and had plenty of exposure.

    Rental models are the cheaper SE, which does not have SES's rear sway bar w/ softer springs. This means the SE is worse than the SES in both ride & handling. Besides, early Focus' w/o Japanese designed engine are so problematic that people are staying away for rest of their life.

    & after my expensive experimentations w/ different combination of parts, I've found out that the best "ride/handling compromise"suspension tuning for this car should be the '06/07 ST model w/ aftermarket Monroe Spectrum shocks. The '05 ST rides too hard.
  • placido08placido08 Member Posts: 1
    edited April 2011
    i like the style of honda cr-v, i want to buy it.
    i like good quality car like BUICK, i think the Japanese car is not as good as America car.
    link title
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    If you test drive the Mazda3 after reading some car magazines, most likely you will be shocked by the ride, which feels like the tires are made of concrete.

    Yes, I think it's funny how some cars get a "free pass" in reviews in some areas as long as the car handles well. For example, a mag like C/D might say the Mazda3 has a "firm" ride, then they go on and on about how other cars without as crisp of handling "crash over bumps" or "are made of jello", both of which are hyperbolic statements if I've ever seen them. But then, they are honest about their bias towards handling in favor of everything else.

    I favor cars with a nice blend of handling and compliant ride. I thought the old Focus was quite good there, especially in the early years before the refreshes, so I look forward to driving the new one. But handling is not #1 for me as it is for some mags and some buyers. I want safe, predictable handling, and the crisper the handling (if not at the sake of a comfortable ride) is great--but not all-important. So the Focus, for me, has to measure up in other areas, including driving position, ergonomics, fuel economy, crash safety, quality/fit-finish, back seat room, NVH, powertrain smoothness, and of course price. If the Focus is a great small car but I can't get one nicely optioned (all the power accessories at minimum) for well under $20k, I'll look elsewhere, including mid-sized sedans and the slightly used market (e.g. Rabbit/Golf).
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    edited April 2011
    I favor cars with a nice blend of handling and compliant ride. I thought the old Focus was quite good there, especially in the early years before the refreshes, so I look forward to driving the new one.

    So this particular C170/C1 platform does not have very long suspension travel in the front.

    The C170 platform, which is used in the old Focus, has less subframe isolation for comfort but also provides more steering feel. Other than that, the suspension travel should have the same length as the C1 platform used in Mazda3 & S40/V50.

    I've checked out the S40 w/ std & sport suspension. The std feels like floating in the air & therefore a little too disconnected. It's front suspension even crashes over taller speed bumps. The sport is just too rigid for comfort.

    The (early) Mazda3 is not as rigid as S40 sport, but still too firm for comfort, plus the rebound motion is too quick/nervous for a relaxing ride. I'm sure installing Monroe shocks will calm down this nervous rebound motion.

    The ride of the '06-07 Focus SES is at least as squishy as the S40 std, as if Ford of USA is trying to sastisfy grandma's who have been driving Lincoln Continentals.

    The ride of the '06-07 Focus ST, despite having high comfort rating from CR, still has that Mazda3-like nervous/quick rebound motion. My first attempt to replace the shocks w/ Gabriel units only made it totally rigid as if the coil springs have become leaf springs! My 2nd attempt was using the OEM SES shocks, & the car ended up sort of like the SES squish mobile except w/ less body roll & squat/dive due to ST's firmer springs. But, at least, for the first time I get to glide over bumps like a luxury sedan until it crashed over tall speed bumps/dips. Since Monroe always tune their shocks just a little firmer than the typical OEM's, this will be my final solution to fine tune my '07 Focus ST into "perfection".

    Ideally, having adjustable shocks that changes b/t the OEM SES & the Monroe setting on my '07 ST would be perfect. I can cruise like a "limo", then hit the "firm" button right before encountering a deep dip or speed bump. The Mazda 626 had this feature since 1983.
  • samm43samm43 Member Posts: 195
    Ideally, having adjustable shocks that changes b/t the OEM SES & the Monroe setting on my '07 ST would be perfect. I can cruise like a "limo", then hit the "firm" button right before encountering a deep dip or speed bump. The Mazda 626 had this feature since 1983.

    Interesting, I didn't know that. Do they use electrically charged particles in the shock oil whereby you choose (via a 3 position switch) more restrictive orifice routing depending on how the particles are aligned? I think Corvettes used this tech many years ago. Now even some bikes use this feature. BMW comes to mind.

    Sam
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    I'm not sure if "electrically charged particles in the shock oil" does it like an on-off setting. The one in the first FWD 626 also only has 2 settings -- a mechanical screw dail it to close down the flow opening. Maybe mechanical devices do wear out, so "electrically charged particles in the shock oil" should be more reliable, but does not provide the choice on controlling the compression or rebound separately I guess.
  • samm43samm43 Member Posts: 195
    edited April 2011
    Re the mech screw dial, oh, I thought you could change the settings on the fly. I think I misunderstood?

    I'm not sure how reliable the charged particles system is. I guess the weakest link would be a wiring connection in as corrosive an environment as an ABS sensor. And I forget how it worked, but I suspect it was done with varying voltages (or maybe different current draws?). The greater the voltage, the more 'lined up' or directionally oriented the particles, therby through design could flow more easily or with greater restriction through the orifices. Technically, while it would make for a more complex (and cost) shock body area, I don't see any reason why the system couldn't be expanded upon to manage rebound activities also.

    I meant to add, that regarding an on-off setting would simply be a simpler (cheaper) setup. Particles charged, switch on, or non charged, switch off. Multiple voltages would just give greater flow (or restricted flow) characteristics. Or, possibly a multiposition switch, may involve different sized particles altogether, but still activate by charge. i.e. A smaller particle (representing a softer ride) may be allowed to go through a specific orifice regardless of whether it is charged or not. Sort of like taking a pencil and dropping it through a 1 inch hole. if the pencil is chopped down to 3/4" it doesn't matter whether it is lined up with the hole or not. I am speculating with you here, putting out that possible theory on the varying ways it could be handled.

    That would be very trick if Focus was to offer such a set up in future. Get the edge on Hyundai who would usually be the first to offer such goodies in an attempt to rob more sales from the domestics. Ford would, of course, reserve that option for a more sport oriented trimmed car. And a price to match.

    Sam
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    edited April 2011
    Re the mech screw dial, oh, I thought you could change the settings on the fly. I think I misunderstood?

    Yes, the "driver adjustable shock" button on the Mazda 626/Ford Telstar (sold in the Pacific region) gives you the choice of either "soft" or "firm", plus "auto", which is in soft mode until 50mph, then only the front switches to firm above that speed.

    The car boasted many distinctive features, such as push-button adjustable suspension (which it shared with its 626 sister car), and a digital instrument cluster (which it did not), and was Wheels magazine¡¦s Car of the Year for 1983.

    Technically, while it would make for a more complex (and cost) shock body area, I don't see any reason why the system couldn't be expanded upon to manage rebound activities also.

    I believe it affects both compression & rebound the same way. I thought I heard from Koni that their adjustable screw on each shock only changes the rebound firmness, which is a good way for drivers to tailor the compression/rebound ratio.

    I personally prefer more rebound control for a more deliberate, less nervous ride motion. & of course, the price to pay is not being able to extend quick enough in time for the next bump, thus more compression firmness is needed in order to compensate. The end result can be some lumpy ride motion & still somewhat too slow to react in some situations such as racing, slalom...

    In case you wonder why these "zoom zoom" cars like the E46 BMW starting in 2001.5 & all Mazda3/protege have a nervously quick rebound motion to ruin the ride comfort.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    In case you wonder why these "zoom zoom" cars like the E46 BMW starting in 2001.5 & all Mazda3/protege have a nervously quick rebound motion to ruin the ride comfort.

    You know, you routinely trash other cars with very negative statement; statements that might suggest A) you've never once driven the cars you're trashing, B) don't have a clue what you're talking about, and C) are just parroting what you've read in various publications.

    The fact is that I've owned an E36, an E46, and an E39 BMW as well as a Mazda3, and none of the bilge you have spouted about these cars is even remotely true. Please, in the future try to qualify your comments with only what you've experienced personally, and then write it along the lines of, "...for my tastes (or needs, wants or desires, you choose), I've found that car "X" does (or feels, or doesn't; you choose again)..."

    If you subscribe to this method of writing you will no longer run the risk of being dubbed a "Troll".
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    edited April 2011
    Wait a minute here. Just b/c I'm a picky person... I've been enjoying reading some UK car magazines b/c they are not afraid to criticize cars!

    First of all, these Mazda's & 3-series are my favorite cars. & I've experienced a lot of them (FYI, I've driven FWD Mazda's since dawn &, as an inexperienced teenager, even rolled over an '83 626 when switching the shocks to soft while going above 55mph doing very abrupt lane-change test :sick: ). I've also been attacked in these Edmund forums since late '03 when I defended for the Mazda 3 & 6, as a few Honda-fan readers couldn't stand me in the "Mazda6 vs TSX" forum for being on the Mazda side. So I'm not really trashing them; I'm just pointing out which particular detail on particular models have anything negative. That's why I kept modifying my Mazda & BMW in order to improve closer to perfection! Actually I am more likely to trash other cars such as Toyota's, & that's b/c I've own them, too.

    You must realized that I should have been awarded PhD degree regarding to these cars. Because I have compared 6 different sets of shock absorbers on my Protege alone, w/ my own $ of course, & I paid mechanics to do all the work.

    First, lets get to the E36 & E46 issue here. I finally decided to collect an E36. & that's after convincing my brother to buy 2 E46 ('02 & 04) AWD. & that's b/c after I test drove the lowered sport suspension, the AWD w/ 17"s, etc., what I noticed was when the E46 was first available with the std suspenion & 15" alloy, it rode even smoother than the C-class while providing better steering feel. But two-&-half years later, the new suspension set up, at least on 2WD models, has a quicker, more nervous rebound motion. It was quite an embarrassment for me when I convinced my cousin to lease an '04 2WD but was disappointed w/ that ride quality!

    I chose to own the E36 (had to buy it used, as it was no longer in production) for having more steering feel than the E46 (plus wider rear visibility) & a more playful rear end for drifting when special differential was added, but the steering ratio was too slow. So I had to do enough research & changed the rack w/ the unit from the 4-cyl Z3. & especially after my brother found out how disppointing my '99 328is w/ sport package drives & rides compare to my Focus ST, I knew I had to prove to the whole world that (besides quicken the steering rack), by changing my 328is' lowered sport suspension into std suspension plus using the slow-motion Monroe shocks, the car will no longer feel painful to ride (or clumsy to steer) compare to my inexpensive Focus ST.

    Now my cars are so close to perfection & able to satisfy a perfectionist like me. I'm even more likely to trash other cars whenever I get to compare them. My opinion may be bluntly honest, but then truth hurts. Just don't take it too hard. :)
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "but then truth hurts. Just don't take it too hard."

    Exactly my point, what you write makes it seem as if your truth should be considered by the rest of us to be a universal truth, and the truth is, it ain't nuthin' of the sort. As I wrote before, if you simply qualify your words as your truth (and only your truth), then no issue.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    & funny thing is that some materialistic people in LA actually trash my cars for being old or inexpensive. Look what they're driving -- numb-steering cars that don't even ride comfortably. Oh well, this may be my standard, whether others agree or not.
  • samm43samm43 Member Posts: 195
    if you simply qualify your words as your truth (and only your truth), then no issue.

    this isn't my debate here, but hopefully you won't mind my opinion on this, as I have noticed this becomes a point of contention on most forums I have read online but it is even quicker to surface here on Edmunds. There seems to always be this big deal made of using "IMO" so that in a political correctness way, it satisfies all those who like to split hairs.
    So I propose that we call it like it is, and admit that when we offer our opinions here in a forum (especially on topics that we may be especially passionate about) surely by now it is not out of line to just assume that all posts are automatically assumed to endorse a caveat prefaced with "IMO" or "for my tastes" etc. There are enough real problems in the world without sensationalizing the need for, what most of us, (especially if put on a lie-detector test) would admit to unnecessary political and the-microscopic-written-word correctness.

    FWIW, I have read a few of both of your previous posts and respect you both in many of your posts, even if i don't totally agree with every word. The same (hopefully) can be said about mine. I write on topics that I am (mostly) passionate about and I'm sure others do too. I think a little bit of poetic (or writer's)-license is not too much to ask from each other on topics that we all are interested in.

    Sam
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    edited April 2011
    So I propose that we call it like it is, and admit that when we offer our opinions here in a forum

    The problem is that a lot of people don't post as if it is their opinion and come across as if it's fact when indeed it is just their opinion. I don't find it as taking anything away from an appreciation for the problems in the world to call them on it.

    I find it beneficial to have both facts and opinions in a discussion and I certainly like to be able to ascertain (to a degree of course) the difference between the two. If we are to assume that everything people post is absolutely just their opinion than the forums become much less useful and interesting.

    Of course all of the above is just my opinion. ;)
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,146
    Although it is reasonable to suggest and expect that members differentiate opinion from fact, I sincerely doubt that anyone will be materially harmed by the lack of distinction. It's unlikely that anyone will make a purchasing decision based on the posts of a sole member.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
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  • mikey38mikey38 Member Posts: 141
    That's about 25 posts without much mention of the forum topic..2012 Focus.

    Any first impressions from folks who have driven the car?
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    edited April 2011
    One time in one of the 4-cyl compact forums, I happened to mention that the IS300 is a powerful car. Then another member questioned me this statement. (Duh, it's your different standard) So I refuted by saying that even the Miata is powerful enough (to have fun) b/c it can power oversteer the skinny tires w/ limited-slip differential.

    For example, people who have never driven the Focus will probably be happy w/ Elantra's level of ride quality & steering feel.

    In the year 1999, I was taking a girl who drives an '89 Camry to go test drive some new cars. She was interested in the Solara b/c of the looks. I explained to her that it's only a Camry coupe, but she insisted trying it out. When we both rode in the back seat, I pointed how how crappy the ride quality is. She disagreed. But minutes later when we tried out the truly comfortable E46 w/ 15" alloys, she totally agreed w/ me :P

    So people who disagree w/ your opinion now won't necessarily disagree w/ you later.

    When others have very different opinions from yours, rather than assuming they made them up, you should try to understand where they're coming from. Short-leg people are used to quick little steps when walking & thus might prefer the typical ride motion found in traditional Japanese cars. My childhood memory concurs this. But as I grew taller & walked with slow-motion strides, a calm steady (slow motion) suspension tunning became my cup of tea, even if it thumps occasionally like how a tall dinosaur would do.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    , I sincerely doubt that anyone will be materially harmed by the lack of distinction. It's unlikely that anyone will make a purchasing decision based on the posts of a sole member.

    I didn't say they would and totally agree with you.

    I consider it common courtesy to let people know if what you're saying is based in fact or is just an opinion. I certainly realize we're not dealing with scientific papers, etc but it makes the discussion clearer and I hope that we would all want that. Again, and I know this gets old, but this is just my opinion and I don't expect anyone to agree with it. In other words I'm not trying to shut anybody up. Everyone should be so considerate.

    I also apologize to all those that tuned in to discuss the 2012 Focus and found all this blather.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Short-leg people are used to quick little steps when walking & thus might prefer the typical ride motion found in traditional Japanese cars. My childhood memory concurs this. But as I grew taller & walked with slow-motion strides, a calm steady (slow motion) suspension tunning became my cup of tea, even if it thumps occasionally like how a tall dinosaur would do.


    That is one of the (weirdest/strangest/oddest/fill-in-the-blank) posts I've seen in over 10 years in Town Hall.

    Just my opinion.

    Focus, anyone?
  • spyderonespyderone Member Posts: 54
    I agree...I came here to read about the Focus, but no one seems to talk about that lately. I just stopped by to look at a hatchback about an hour ago and it looks smaller than it does in pictures and on tv. It is a nice looking car and fit and finish is very good. I didn't have time to take it on a test drive, but I will on Thursday. I sat in the car and I thought it was very roomy. In a prior post someone who was 5' 6" said there was no leg room. I am 5' 10", put the drivers seat all the way back and could barely touch the gas pedal. When I positioned the seat to where I felt comfortable to drive I then sat in the backseat behind the driver and my knees were about an inch from the drivers seat back. I will give my input when I test drive on Thursday.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    heh :)

    Made me laugh though...now is that fact or opinion.

    Focus...
    I haven't driven the Focus yet; only seen one on the road being test driven.

    The ST really is what interests me...seems once you get the Focus price to mid 20's my desires are directed elsewhere.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    edited April 2011
    Made me laugh though...now is that fact or opinion.

    That was Autombile magazine's front-page opinion in the late '80's. If I claim it's my opinion, then that would be plagiarism. They were wondering why, comparing to the Sterling (Rover 800) British clone, the Acura Legend was superior in every way except ride comfort. Then they concluded that Japanese people w/ shorter legs prefer to ride that way.

    It finally explained why this very short lady neighbor who drives a Sentra was arguing w/ me that the '86 Mercedes 300E rides uncomfortably. I can imagine that the typical thumping found in German cars' ride motion does not exist naturally in small human's world.

    I was glad I found the answer. I'm pretty sure some people might just prefer the way the Elantra rides over the Focus?
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    edited April 2011
    Has anybody actually driven both the hatch and the sedan? If so, any diffence noted?
  • markus5markus5 Member Posts: 102
    edited April 2011
    RE: Trim level availability
    I posted some anecdotal impressions last week regarding new model against my '04 Focus ZTS. (# 255). Bottom line, I will need to take another drive on another road without the Sales Rep hovering about. The last Focus I bought was made substantially on the basis of the test drive experience.
    There was an interesting piece of information on the sales rep's internal "cheat sheet" regarding the distribution of trim levels in the Focus line that they intend to build, which I saw when he went to answer a phone and left it on the table. If I read it correctly, it said that the SE trim line will account for over 65% of the entire Focus build. (in this group there will be about 50/50 between sedan and hatch).
    It was somehow disconcerting to me to find that standing right up next to the hatch it appears to be much smaller than the 7 inches on the spec sheet. I understand that the configuration of the hatch gives it more "usable space". Sedans can be OK in this attribute if the openings are big and the rear seat folds flat. On the new SE sedan it is a full (not 40/60 split) folding seat back. Ford took the decision to make the 40/60 available only on higher trim levels. I did not check out to see how flat the seat went down. ( I remember Fiesta does not fold down quite flat)
    I told the Sales rep not to bother giving me a price just yet. Nothing hostile here, I have a long history with these people and they understand that I will be around again
  • samm43samm43 Member Posts: 195
    I am convinced this is totally a marketing ploy to sell the higher trimmed cars. There is a lot of profit in gadgets, so what better way to force you into gadget territory than to make a very useful (and ridiculously economical to build) 60/40 seat split as part of that pkg? Any family that has more than a household of two that does any sports or gardening activity, knows full well that the rear seat must split, so it becomes a mandatory thing and they don't consider a trim level under what that comes with. Cruise control is like that on some cars. Cruze comes to mind. The manufacturers basically force you into a more uplevel car just because you want that one feature.

    How I miss the days of checking off my own individual option sheet starting with a base car and working my way up, one tick ($) at a time. Before you know it they will have us all in nothing but loaded cars if all you originally wanted was A/C, 22" wheels and any color you want as long as it's black. :sick:

    Sam
  • gambit293gambit293 Member Posts: 406
    It finally explained why this very short lady neighbor who drives a Sentra was arguing w/ me that the '86 Mercedes 300E rides uncomfortably.

    Now you're making me laugh too! Is there anyone within a ten-mile radius of you that you don't argue with about cars? :P
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    edited April 2011
    This particular lady is not a car person anyway, & I didn't even bother to refute. It all started out when she asked me, "My busband wants to get a $36k new Mercedes 300E, but what's so good about Mercedes Benz?"

    I only answered, "comfort."

    Then she replied, "It's not comfortable!" That was the end of this discussion, & I did not suspect her honesty, either. Of course, I was thinking that if she doesn't know how to appreciate this kind of design, then it wouldn't be worth her $...
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    Mercedes-Benz German-mobile wasn't comfortable enough for that lady? What does she need...a Genesis sedan from Hyundai? Or the new Kia K9 perhaps.

    Almost produced in me a big 'ole LOL. :D

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • tim156tim156 Member Posts: 308
    That didn't take long.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,146
    If it continues, I'm going to have to get out the old Delete-o-Matic. Look at the discussion title, folks - the content of your posts should relate to it. Directly.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
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    Share your vehicle reviews

  • puffin1puffin1 Member Posts: 276
    edited April 2011
    Ok, I like this forum as it's not subjective.
    Now, how come Ford is treating us like second hand rose again and the Brits get the Focus HB TCDI in 1.21 and 1.4l before us? Is the UK and Germany their testing grounds?The focus is made in Mexico also isn't it? Texas is upping the speed limit to 80MPH
    Well, with the price of gas now I'm shopping MPG.
    Also, a Focus TI HB loaded is around 30k.Maybe if I lived in Fl,or So Cal where you can wash your car alot.
    When I go on Auto Express I always have to convert pounds to dollars, also Euoros.
    Lasltly who is the brain on Edmund's that got rid of the flags and how much money would you guys lay out for a Focus nicely equipped.
    Also, to whoever said to RTFM I do every year to reset the clock. I do pay attention to Shippo and The Creakid. I find them an asset to this forum and other forums. :shades:
  • samm43samm43 Member Posts: 195
    There are many examples of vehicles that can be purchased in EU with extremely efficient (and clean) diesels, that in the USA, politics (tax-based revenue in lieu of the facts) restricts their entry.

    I recommend expressing your frustration to your congressman. There is strength in numbers. Government has raised the price of diesel (and has kept it higher than RUG even though it costs less to refine) and touted hybrid tech, not because they actually care about the air we breathe, but because it renders them more revenue through tax dollars to waste. There is more CO and sulfur PPM emission content in RUG and PUG than there is in diesel.

    I wouldn't hold our breath on getting that TCDI in the Focus, when even luxury brands like MB, Audi and Lexus recently announced they will invest more in hybrid tech for cars destined to NA. Wouldn't be so bad I suppose, except that ironically even hybrid tech is superior when using a diesel engine. Until enough pressure is put on government to quit lying to us with their intentions/restrictions, nothing is going to change quick. But $5+ gas will get more people speaking out though (one can hope).

    I have said this before, but is worth reiterating. This would have been a great opportunity for Ford to offer a more affordable North American alternative to a very efficient AWD diesel platform like MB and BMW offerings. Since VW has still not offered AWD in an affordable, efficient vehicle like the Golf or Jetta TDI, Ford should with the Focus. Get the jump on the Cruze diesel that is rumored to be make it over here. These past winters (and especially the last one) have dumped so many snow storms in states that usually don't have to contend with slippery conditions, that I read more often lately of drivers that say they wish they had more AWD alternatives to pick from, that are fuel efficient. SUV's are a quintuple whammy of inefficiency. They are high with poor aerodynamics, heavy (and need more power to move that weight) and most are AWD. AWD in itself uses more fuel, so what better way to offset that than with an efficient turbo diesel? And since fuel costs are as significant as they are, many drivers are realizing they really don't need the size of an SUV, but settle for one because AWD is their primary goal, when a Focus-sized AWD diesel wagon/and or hatchback would fit the bill perfectly. Word would spread like wildfire. You missed the boat Ford. Opportunity lost. Instead, Hyundai or Kia will do it and NA brands will once again be playing catch-up. :(

    Sam
  • tim156tim156 Member Posts: 308
    edited April 2011
    The Focus is made at the Wayne Assembly Plant, Wayne, MI, USA. The 6 speed dual clutch automatic transmission is made in Mexico. According to the sticker on the car, 85% domestic parts, 15% foreign parts.
  • puffin1puffin1 Member Posts: 276
    Samm 43 ,great informative post.Maybe Ford doesn't want our business.This winter was so bad,If Focus AWD HB available I would have bought one.The little Imprezda has the boxer 2.5 ,but milage is terrible.
    Well,I guess Iam disgusted and I will write to my congressperson. TY
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    FWIW the former platform mate of the focus (Mazda 3) may get a diesel for 2013. Mazda said they will bring diesels over to the US for that model year. Maybe Ford will do the same.
  • gambit293gambit293 Member Posts: 406
    Subaru just revealed the 2012 Impreza, which looks to be a formidable competitor to the Focus.

    http://www.subaru.com/impreza/2012/index.html?cid=em_201104_insider

    Take a look at the rear, three-quarter view of the hatchback. The similarity is striking. The Focus has the Impreza beat on HP and mileage, but then again the Impreza has, of course, AWD.
  • tim156tim156 Member Posts: 308
    I agree the 3/4 view is very similar. Along with MPG's and HP, the Focus beats it in interior and front end styling. Subaru has never been very bold with their front end styling, remember the pig nose. I guess I wonder if AWD is really needed in a C segment car. If you live in an area where the roads aren't plowed right away in the winter it would come in handy, but who is going to take this size car into the woods or where AWD is necessary. With Ford's torque vectoring and Euro inspired suspension, my guess is the Focus will handle far better than the AWD.
  • markus5markus5 Member Posts: 102
    edited April 2011
    Interesting:
    Looking at rear seat configuration at the SE trim level in Hatch vs. Sedan, the hatch has split back and bottom. These bottoms flip forward individually which allows the seat back to get down to a horizontal when the head rests are removed.
    The seat bottom on the sedan does not move which will NOT enable the seat back to move down to horizontal. In this way, going from the sedan to the Hatch is actually going up a trim level. No doubt, this is one of the factors responsible for the higher cost on the Hatch.
    I understand Samm's frustration with the marketing manipulations on the trim levels. For example, I do not like the decision that Ford makes to not put a more flexible back seat configuration on every trim level, it clearly diminishes the value on these more basic models.
  • netranger4netranger4 Member Posts: 149
    Yes, m6user, I have driven both the Focus and the Fiesta. The Fiesta hatchback was the first or second one my local dealer had in stock. The ride was decent, but not outstanding. Being of small stature, even I felt cocooned.

    As we pulled into the driveway of the dealership, after the test drive, the transmission disengaged. the revs shot up and then the transmission grabbed and we proceeded up the driveway. I said to the sales rep 'NO WAY' to the Fiesta. It felt like a slipping hydraulic AT. The sad part was that the tail of the car was in the traffic lane when it decided to de-clutch or whatever.

    The Focus was not too bad. It was an SE sedan, again with that dual clutch transmission. Thanks, but I'll stick with the regular AT. The Euro's must have a different tolerance level than we do here in the States.

    The Fiesta styling is attractive, too bad the rest of the product is not as appealing as the visual.
  • faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    I too have had a test drive in both Fords. I would not buy either, I just wanted to see how they drove and what all the hipe was about. The Fiesta is tight for someone over 220 lgs. The ride is solid, but bouncy. Engine pick up was slow. I do not know how other 1.6 L engines perform, so maybe its good for a engine of that size. The Fiesta I drove had a sticker of $ 22,200. I consider that proberly about average for most small vehicles equiped to the hilt. The Fiesta was loaded!

    The Focus was also $ 22,400. so price wise they were about the same. But the Focus was not nearly so fancy with all kind of do-da's. The ride is solid but smoother, engine was a 2.5 or 2.4, I am not for sure which. Transmission shifts were smoother, the seats were a little more comfortable, pick up was much better. Both dash 's looked a like.

    Fit and finish were very good, the dask cover was like rubber...all black looked a little cheap to me. For $ 22,000, both seemed too much to me. If I needed a bigger car I would buy used rather than either of these two Fords. Bothe have a good amount of forigen made parts. Engines made in Brazil, transmissions made in Mexico. Both used tires that for me seemed cheap OE tires. These Fords may do good, but time will tell if their value holds up in the NADA or KBB.

    All in all my 1996 Dodge neon would out run, hold bigger people and at 197,000 still is a better car....it's paid for!
  • faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    See my post just before this. I made a mistake
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    My local dealer has 3 SEs (2 hatches, 1 sedan) on the ground so I went over to take a look. I sat in a dark blue hatch and the (gray) sedan, both automatics and listing for just under $21k. I didn't ask for a test drive because I'm not going to buy a car for at least a year... and they didn't offer a test drive.

    Likes:

    * Comfortable driving position. Good thigh support, seat felt firm but well-contoured. Grippy woven fabric. Wheel was comfortable at its outermost reach. One car had a leather wheel, which felt nicer than the plastic one of course.
    * Nice looking dash, with (faux?) aluminum trim and classy if somewhat extreme gauges. Upper parts of dash were padded.
    * Nice looking 16" alloys on the car that had them. The plastic wheel covers on the other car looked cheap.
    * Nicely padded lid on center console--was leather or faux leather.
    * Roomy trunk or (on hatch) behind-seat storage.
    * Pretty good headroom in back--I'm 5'9", 32" inseam. Better than for example the Elantra.
    * Good foot room under driver's seat.

    Dislikes:

    * Lack of rear seat legroom. In my sit-behind-me test, my shins were up tight against the driver's seat but my thighs were not fully supported. So, adequate for kids or small adults only, depending on who's driving.
    * Rear armrests are hard plastic, and there's no center armrest--which almost all cars in this class, certainly for over $20k, have. Also there's no grab handles in back. It's almost like Ford decided to focus :) on the front seat passengers only with this car.
    * Lack of front headroom with the moonroof--my hair was brushing the headliner with the seat adjusted for comfort, and I'm only 5'9".
    * Light-colored woven headliner looks like it will pick up dirt easily... and in fact one car already had multiple smudges on the headliner, and it's a new car on the dealer lot.
    * There's LOTS of buttons on the dash--more with MySync than without. At least the HVAC controls are simple. But they are not smooth as I would expect in a "premium" compact, i.e. they "clack" instead of "snick" through their settings. (Ford, check with GM or Nissan on that.)
    * Front doors have a little padding for elbows, but it's very thin and it's cloth. (Ford, check with Nissan on that, e.g. Versa).
    * Vanity mirrors are not illuminated... not what I'd expect on a $20k+ car.
    * While the dash looks nice and has padded surfaces, the door panels are hard plastic and it doesn't look like high-quality plastic--although it felt sturdy.
    * Front cupholders are a dugout in the center console. That's it. No adjustments, no cover, nothing to dress them up--just a hole in the center console. Not what I'd expect in a "premium" compact.
    * Styling is subjective, but the "snowplow" front end doesn't grab me. I like the exterior styling otherwise... except those plastic wheel covers.

    Even though the Focus might drive great, it's not enough "car" for me, for nearly $21k. For that money I'd more likely go for an Elantra Limited, or maybe the 2012 Impreza (assuming its price stays about the same as for 2011). If I could live with a tight rear seat (and I'd rather not), I'd take the Cruze ECO over the Focus--nicer interior, more driver's seat adjustments, better fuel economy.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    edited April 2011
    * There's LOTS of buttons on the dash--more with MySync than without. At least the HVAC controls are simple. But they are not smooth as I would expect in a "premium" compact, i.e. they "clack" instead of "snick" through their settings. (Ford, check with GM or Nissan on that.)

    That's the pathetic thing about domestic manufacturers in general -- I already got sick of them since I was little checking out the Chevette & AMC Gremlin... At the LA Autoshow in late '09, I've noticed quality deterioration as well when sitting inside of the Fiesta as I tried to adjust the seat mechanism, etc. B/c I have driven the made-in-Germany Fiesta in Los Angeles County prior to that. Ford has spoiled me w/ a higher-quality car in their special invitation. Now my expectation has...
  • gambit293gambit293 Member Posts: 406
    Did you happen to see a model without Ford Mytouch? I am concerned that the dash for non-Mytouch models will have yawning blank spaces for "non-features."

    I hate being reminded that I have a cheaper trim by blank buttons and ambiguous empty spots.
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