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2012 Ford Focus

17810121327

Comments

  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    edited May 2011
    The Focus looks handsome, the Mazda3 does handsome (from a utility and drive perspective).

    No sure if the front end of the new Focus III looks handsome, either.

    I think the front end of the earlier roomy Focus I looks cool like the Mondeo/ ST220, which got tons of rear leg room & drives pretty handsome as well!

    Ditto the roomy Focus II (1, 2)

    The new Focus III may be cramped in the back, but does handsome in terms of steering feel, ride comfort & quietness. & how well does the Mazda3 match all that?
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    While I've yet to drive a new Focus, I will say that the ride and handling of the new(ish) Mazda3 is every bit as good as what I experience with my 2009 (if not slightly better), and for my needs, wants and desires, that's a tough act to follow.
  • rexgrexg Member Posts: 27
    While I like the new Focus very much, I think it is a real shame that Ford chose to omit a tidy chrome exhaust tip. The tailpipe looks cheap on an otherwise classy-looking package. Apparently the Euro versions have them on some (non-ST) models?
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    edited May 2011
    The Focus hatch suddenly looks way more attractive to this long time VW owner. Likely low to mid 30's average MPG, close to 40 highway, and just as fun to drive as the Golf.

    Actually, the Focus should be more fun to steer than the Golf.

    But even the 2-dr Golf stick, with its ability to carry more than 2 adults comfortably to travel very long distance, actually cost less fuel-per-adult on board. Don't you think? ;) How much are people willing to pay for more leg room on long-distance flights?

    The Focus is your daily commuter if you don't drive on the carpool lane. The Golf is your family mini mini van...
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    edited May 2011
    I wouldn't care to bet on the Focus being "more fun to steer" than a Golf, errr, unless you're comparing a full-zoot Focus with uprated suspension, wheels and tires to a base level Golf.
  • pearlpearl Member Posts: 336
    Saw the new Focus at the NYIAS. Looked very nice. The new 2.0L four banger had a chain-driven OHC system - good to get away from the belts. Back seat was not "roomy" and I wouldn't want to ride back there for two hours, but for relatively brief trips it was OK, and fine for kids. I liked the hatch and am glad to see them making a comeback on U.S. model cars - great utility. 2012 and 2013 will be banner years for this segment of the market with the new Elantra, Focus, Impreza, etc. Shoppers need to take some time to evaluate each to get the one that suits them best.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    edited May 2011
    I wouldn't care to bet on the Focus being "more fun to steer" than a Golf, errr, unless you're comparing a full-zoot Focus with uprated suspension, wheels and tires to a base level Golf.

    In this Euro comparison b/t the Golf w/ lowered suspension & new Focus w/ optional sporty Zetec suspension, "The lowered sports suspension is designed to boost efficiency, and affects comfort, as the BlueMotion doesn¡¦t ride with the smoothness and fluency of ordinary models. If anything, though, it¡¦s more compliant than the stiff set-up of the Focus Zetec at low speeds.

    Up the pace and the VW trails ¡V the Ford rides well at higher speeds and is more capable and enjoyable to drive. The Golf is safe and sure-footed, but doesn¡¦t have the Focus¡¦ dynamic polish or feedback.
    " & "As you¡¦d expect, the Ford¡¦s chassis shines the brightest. The electrically assisted steering is beautifully weighted and responds instantly, while the torque vectoring system ensures strong front-end grip. But it¡¦s the poise and balance that really impress, allowing the car to flow through corners. Adding to its appeal are a precise gearshift and progressive brakes. Only the unyielding low-speed ride of the sporty Zetec disappoints."

    Also, base on my comparison b/t the soft-riding '07 Rabbit 2.5 & the '07 Focus ST 2.3, which is stick only & costs less than $16k out-the-door after discount/rebate, I was actually quite appalled by Rabbit's lack of feel from its electric steering.

    But if the Focus you drove is the cheaper '06-07 SES model w/ very squishy underdamped suspension (both springs & shocks) that rubs off steering confidence plus buttoming out the front springs easily, then it's totally out of this league.

    The suspension of '06-07 Focus ST is firm w/ quick rebound motion. The '05 Focus ST is firmer still (somewhat similar to the Mazda3). The earlier SVT 2.0 hatch (unfortunately not as reliable) has similar suspension set up as the '05 ST but lowered & its different steering is extremely delicious!Consumer Reports found this car to be Porsche-like in handling!

    Only the '06-07 Focus ST, w/ its shocks replaced by the softer & slower-rebound Monroe units, can provide a "comfy but still steady" ride comparable to the Rabbit.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    What does any of that have to do with comparing the current vintage of the Golf and the Focus? I've driven the current Golf and it has steering feel right bang in the same neighborhood as my Mazda3, for the Focus to have demonstrably better steering feel would be a difficult achievement to say the least.
  • smegleysmegley Member Posts: 7
    edited May 2011
    "I wouldn't care to bet on the Focus being "more fun to steer" than a Golf..."

    I would, however, care to bet on the Focus being more fun to steer NOT to the VW repair shop. Too many people I know have too many problems with too many VWs (proportionately). And the VW repairs cost too much, also.

    I understand wanting some VWs (like the GTI) but I don't understand putting up with the headaches. Same goes for Bimmers and Audis. Sometimes I wonder if I drive a Ford to be certain that VW/Audi/BMW owners have a dependable ride to get them to the repair shop.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    edited May 2011
    I would, however, care to bet on the Focus being more fun to steer NOT to the VW repair shop. Too many people I know have too many problems with too many VWs (proportionately).. And the VW repairs cost too much, also.

    Proportionately, yes. But there are exceptions -- the 5-cyl Golf imported from Germany is even more reliable than many Japanese cars, per Consumer Reports.

    Like the Mini Cooper, the Focus were pretty disastrous reliability-wise during the early years. Mazda saved the Focus after taking over the underhood department.

    & of course, Mazda was also pretty disastrous when come to uncontrollable oversteer. The Focus saved its [non-permissible content removed], literally, w/ the Control Blade multi-links, which the Rabbit/Golf/GTI/A3/Passat adopted right afterward.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    edited May 2011
    What does any of that have to do with comparing the current vintage of the Golf and the Focus? I've driven the current Golf and it has steering feel right bang in the same neighborhood as my Mazda3, for the Focus to have demonstrably better steering feel would be a difficult achievement to say the least.

    Anyway, after you drive the base new Focus w/ the same high-profile tires as the current 5-cyl Golf, you can conclude whether the base Focus does not have more steering feel than the current Golf.

    Repeated comments from Euro tests have confirmed that the Focus loses some steering feel after each generation.

    The video from the Euro comparison test clearly says, "The Ford Focus has always set the class benchmark in terms of handling. And this new one, it's no exception. It does have electric power steering for the first time, which has not quite as nice feel to it as the hydraulic system on the old car. But it's still very responsive. And I like the way it's nice and light at low speeds and then weights up as you start to go a bit faster."
    00:26-00:47

    Also, in order not to confuse the issue here, there's a difference b/t "steering feel" & "steering precision". Audi's generally have excellent precision, but no feel.

    2nd, there's the feel of the tire grip vs the resistance as you crank. VW seems to have only the latter since MkIV. I really love the way the MkIII VW steers more than just about anything else. The '06-07 Focus SES, which is probably the Focus you experienced, does not have much resistance as you crank the wheel, at least at certain speeds, but should be able to distinguish very well whether the road is slippery or not such as sensing the amount of hydroplaning when relaxing cruising on the fwy is called for, at least this is quite true on the '06-07 Focus ST w/ firmer suspension which improves the steering confidence over the SES model.

    The Rabbit V is nearly identical to the current Golf VI, which is suppose to be only a slight improvement in steering over the MkV.

    So, according to you, if the old Focus already has worse steering feel than the MkV Rabbit, then it sounds like the new Focus should be even worse in this area than the MkVI Golf, which is not the case according to that Euro comparison test.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    You know, I constantly hear folks making noise about how unreliable European cars are and how reliable their Asian cars are and I ask myself, are they just trying to make themselves feel better because they drive something about as engaging to drive as a plush sofa, or are they so fearful something might break that even 99.999% reliability isn't enough to make them feel comfortable.

    My position on all of this is that cars, ALL CARS, are pretty damned reliable these days and who really gives a rip if one car is slightly more reliable than the next. For me, it's all about the drive and the utility; I don't give one hoot how reliable a car is.

    FWIW, over the years I've owned 3 Mazdas, 3 Toyotas, 2 Chryslers, 4 Dodges, 2 VWs, 2 Audis, and 2 BMWs, and the two absolutely worst cars (by a huge margin) was one of the Mazdas and one of the Toyotas. The best and most reliable were both BMWs and the two newer Dodges (the other two were from the 1970s and 1980s and still pretty reliable).

    Specific to the VWs; both had a couple of peripheral component issues which cropped up (and given that both cars served me for well over 100,000 miles that ain't bad), but no show-stoppers and they never left me stranded. The flip side of course is that they were so much more fun to drive than pretty much anything else in their respective classes that when the infrequent unscheduled repair was required, I gladly did the work.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    You are fond of citing what others have written and said, and to that I say, "Who gives a damn"; do you have even a single original thought based upon personal experience?
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    Yes, as I said earlier, "Also, base on my comparison b/t the soft-riding '07 Rabbit 2.5 & the '07 Focus ST 2.3, which is stick only & costs less than $16k out-the-door after discount/rebate, I was actually quite appalled by Rabbit's lack of feel from its electric steering."

    & that was what steered me away from buying the VW. Again, I was comparing the VW to the Focus ST, not the squishy Focus SES.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    edited May 2011
    I agree about sacrificing slight reliability for a huge gain in driving & riding pleasure.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    If we are talking about old cars now, you can't beat the steering feel of the first gen rabbit scirocco gti with manual steering and tranny. You could tell if a dime was heads or tails if you ran over one. Of course this is not relevant to today's cars.

    I am more interested in the topic of the thread. How does the new Focus handle?
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    One of the VWs I referred to a couple of posts back was a 1979 Scirocco, possibly the best steering feel of any car I've ever driven; my 2002 530i gets second place in that department. :)
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    I LOVE an active discussion like this. Just try to keep the tangents brief. Long sidetracks on off-topic subjects (like other brands of cars) can really confuse people just dropping in looking for Focus-talk
  • gambit293gambit293 Member Posts: 406
    I saw a 2012 hatchback parked in a plaza near my house on Sunday. That's the first 2012 I've seen (or rather noticed) out on the streets, thus far.

    That is all.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    edited May 2011
    Where are you located? I already saw more than a few on the roads of S California.

    The first one I saw was a sedan. So I paid attention to who was driving it -- a senior citizen. I guess it was no coincident that the new Focus is smooth-riding & quiet enough to satisfy Crown Victoria drivers while offering twice the mpg. So he was willing to pay for a car costing this much w/o an useful back seat, which probably won't be occupied often anyway. & of course, senior citizens are less likely to go for a foreign badge.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Very educated conclusion based on your extensive survey of ONE. What would you have assumed if a teenager was driving it?

    I see older guys(and some women) driving Miatas, M3s, Porsches, Corvettes, etc. Are we to assume the same thing about those cars?
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    edited May 2011
    I might have seen more than one senior citizen driving the new Focus (but I don't quite remember). I just don't expect senior citizens reacting so soon to grab a new product faster than young people, who tend to be the ones that really wanna be first-in-line to show off something fancy.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Same thing happened with the Scion XB. Older folks gravitated to it because of ease of entry, price point, functionality, MPG etc. Everyone was shocked to see people with gray hair driving around in them. Don't assume older people don't keep up with trends and want a car that's easy to park, drive and looks good.

    Also, keep in mind that seniors are on somewhat of a fixed income and these gas prices have hit them hard so the MPG ratings catch their eye just like it does everyone else.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Also keep in mind that 19-22 YO's don't have the income to buy new cars.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    edited May 2011
    Let me tell ya about the xB when it first came out. It was the only modern-day car w/ a hood you can tell where the corners are. One time, I saw a senior citizen duck taped two broom sticks at each front corner of his Lexus ES300 so he can see the corners.

    Don't laugh. I think this is a smart idea especially when you have to maneuver quickly in a crowded parking lot, not to mention time saving for other cars waiting around. I have experimented w/ little fake antennas on the corners of my cars & driven very quicky around tight spots. People around me think I'm the most skillful driver in the world.

    I think Toyota realized that this can ruin their sales of other models if consumers are spoiled by the boxy hood. So the 2nd generation xB had a circular hood which totally confuses the driver where the corners are. LOL
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Also keep in mind that 19-22 YO's don't have the income to buy new cars.

    Good point... especially not new cars that can cost well over $20k well equipped. When I went looking at the Focus at my local dealership, the only other shopper was a middle-aged woman, maybe 50-55. She was smitten by the car and planned to buy a loaded sedan.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    For a car under $30k? I'm sure a lot of buyers under 30 yrs old can afford.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    edited May 2011
    Also keep in mind that 19-22 YO's don't have the income to buy new cars.

    Didn't stop em from buying houses. Now look where we are. :sick:
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    edited May 2011
    For a car under $30k? I'm sure a lot of buyers under 30 yrs old can afford.

    I think he specifically referred to 18-22 year olds, not under 30.
  • spyderonespyderone Member Posts: 54
    I thought this thread was supposed to be about the 2012 Ford Focus, but now it seems to have gone off track.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    I have to agree. While it's VERY easy to get off course, let's get back around to the Focus please.
  • gambit293gambit293 Member Posts: 406
    I'm in Maryland, near DC. I'm sure I've encountered other 2012s but simply not noticed.

    Around 2 months ago, I did a double take at a sedan, only to realize later that it was almost certainly a Fiesta, not a 2012 Focus.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,146
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  • gambit293gambit293 Member Posts: 406
    Autoweek - SE Hatchback - manual:

    http://www.autoweek.com/article/20110512/CARREVIEWS/110519947

    All editors heap praise on the handling and suspension. They also all slammed MyTouch.

    Car and Driver - SE Hatchback - manual

    http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/11q2/2012_ford_focus_se_hatchback_manual- -short_take_road_test

    "The bottom line, up top: This latest Ford Focus is the best small car for sale in America today."

    Here's a line of interest for you manual lovers:

    "Ignoring the fact that the stick is unavailable on the higher SEL and Titanium trims (a mortal sin in our book, although Ford tells us consumer interest has it reexamining manual availability), . . ."
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Hmmm, I wonder if my fussing to Ford vis-à-vis the glaring omission of a stick shift in the Titanium model wasn't just the lone voice in howling wind. :) That said, even if Ford starts offering a stick in the higher end models, given how thin the back seat room is I may not be able to fit a new Focus into my lifestyle. :(
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    I don't know why you guys keep harping about the back seat. An adult can sit back there fairly comfortably for short duration and a child seat fits fine. Just saw a TV video review on motorweek last night and they showed an adult sitting back there no problem with the seat adjusted for the same person of average looking heighth. Would you want to travel crosscountry in the back if you're over 5'10"? Probably not. But who buys a Focus for crosscountry cruising with adults in the back anyway? There are other cars out there (even bigger vehicles) with similar back seat dimensions and nobody is screaming about their back seats all the time.

    I agree it's on the smaller side but a lot of posts in here make it sound like it's unusable. I've got a Infiniti QX4 which is pretty tight in the back(I believe similar legroom to the new Focus) and I've driven 4-5 hours with adults in back and they didn't complain. Of course, I was paying for the gas so what did they have to complain about? ;)
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    edited May 2011
    While the Focus may well be large enough to accommodate car seats, my wife and I are in that gap between needing them (i.e. our teenagers have long since been out of them and *hopefully* it will be a while before they have kids and need us to tote them around). The thing is, we could use our minivan for our frequent trips between New Hampshire and Manhattan, or we can take my Mazda3 (which has 3" more leg room over the new Focus); given the price of gas these days it isn't at all surprising that we opt for the Mazda more often than not.

    When I went and looked at the Focus I took the kids along and had them park themselves in the back seat; "no go" was the answer from them on being forced to sit back there for more than a quick trip. Long story short, if we opt to get rid of the very useful and practical minivan and buy the Focus, then we can still take the Mazda for our long trips, however, if we decide to swap out the Mazda, the Focus ain't gonna happen due to the lack of rear seat room.

    FWIW, the four of us took a trip from New Hampshire to the Detroit area last fall in the Mazda and we were more than comfortable; by not taking the minivan we saved nearly $200 in fuel costs.

    So why do some of us harp on the lack of rear seat room in the Focus? Because our kids are up to (or nearing) 5' 10". From my perspective, why market a 4-Door car with only two usable seats? I suppose it will work for families with small children, but once they hit teenage-hood, it's a very different story.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,146
    No kidding! My youngest child is 6'1". Very few vehicles give him a really comfortable amount of legroom in the back, but I'm not interested in buying a vehicle that will turn him into an accordion. In a year, I won't care, but the Focus would be a no-go right now.

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  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    I appreciate your point and your situation. But I say "your" point as it applies to you. You again say that it only has only two usable seats and my point is that the back is usable. Comfy and roomy for your particular situation?? Hardly. I think Ford's target market is younger couples with small children, singles, young adults and teenagers and possibly older buyers that want something very economical.

    Midsized sedans that are more designed to fit a larger family's needs and get pretty much the same MPG but possibly not the sporty experience you desire unless you go with a Mazda6.

    The only real point I'm trying to make is that the new Focus may not fit your particular needs but the back seat is fine for millions of other people. Just don't think it's fair to label it's back seat as unusable. I've read probably 20 reviews of the new Focus and can't recall one reviewer stating that the back seat was unusable. Saw a lot of comments mentioning it being tight or snug or a little less space than some other compacts.

    In fact, my QX4 has less legroom and less hiproom than the new Focus and I've had it for almost 9 years and 70K with teenagers, adults and kids in the backseat on long trips and they seemed to have survived the experience. In fact, I really don't remember anybody complaining about the size of the backseat. Maybe we are just a bunch of masochists in our family. :sick:
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Is that a personal problem for you that some small car buyers want a car with a back seat that can comfortably hold people 5'10"-ish for more than an hour or so? Maybe they want something they can take their family on multi-hour trips and get full use of that excellent fuel economy? Maybe they don't have the cash to buy multiple vehicles.

    Small cars with back seats that have plenty of leg room exist--it's not like it's impossible to design a car that way.
  • gambit293gambit293 Member Posts: 406
    I'm too lazy to browse backwards at the moment, but there were some posts that implied that the rear seat is too small to even fit a childseat. (If you saw any of those posts by me, I was only repeating what others observed -- hearsay, in other words). That would deem it "unuseable" to me, but I'll have to reserve final judgment until I get to check one out personally again.

    I'm not concerned at all with the 5'10 standard. It pangs me a little to have to choose between my son growing up to fit in the back of a Focus comfortably versus (defying all genetic odds) growing up to to be the 6'2 forward for the Chicago Bulls. But I'm willing to bet on the former. (If he enters the NBA, he could buy me four Focuses, or maybe just one Aston Martin).
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    edited May 2011
    Is that a personal problem for you that some small car buyers want a car with a back seat that can comfortably hold people 5'10"-ish for more than an hour or so?

    Not at all, it's everone's perogative and personal choice. My problem was calling the backseat of the Focus unusable as in "why have four doors if the backseat is unusable". That is pretty definitive. Unusable for who...everyone? Obviously, you may find it unusable but many woudn't. Do I personally care if some people want bigger back seats? Absolutely not. Why should I? But since my vehicles backseat is smaller then the new Focus's, I guess I shouldn't have been using it all these years because obviously it is unusable. ;)

    Too small for many people, yes. Unusable for most...no!
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Believe me, I have no axe to grind for or against the Focus and given everything else being equal I would certainly choose a car with a little more comfort for all occupants. But you hit it on the head when you say it may be "unusable for me". That's just my point and now that I've had to explain it three or four times I'm sure it's getting old for everyone else as it is for me.

    I'll try to keep it really really simple and that is certainly not directed at you personally. My vehicle has a smaller back seat than the new Focus. I can fit adults, car seats, booster seats, teenagers, Labrador Retrievers, etc in my back seat. It is usable. I'm sure the new Focus backseat is therefore usable. Small, cramped, tight, not big enough for some people to the point they wouldn't buy it.....sure, but not unusable.

    By the way, 6'2" is not going to be playing forward in the NBA. Try guard. But I hear you cause the center on my high school team was 6'2" and that was pretty tall then.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Over the years I've come to mentally add "IMO" to statements that are obviously opinions in Town Hall. Otherwise I'd be spending all day "correcting" posters here. ;)
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    edited May 2011
    "Midsized sedans that are more designed to fit a larger family's needs and get pretty much the same MPG but possibly not the sporty experience you desire unless you go with a Mazda6."

    Were it not for the fact that cars which compete dead-on against the Focus (like the Mazda3) have as much as 3" more overall leg room, I might buy your argument. In my case I want a car with plenty of small-car sporting aspirations AND a place to stash my teenagers in the back for a five our drive. Apparently I'm not the only one.

    "Cover the competition" is what my wise old skipper used to say; in this case Ford went out on a reach while the others close hauled toward the marker, and as a result, the Focus came up short. Is it a fine car for people whom don't really need a normal sized back seat? Yup, no denying it.
  • bamacarbamacar Member Posts: 749
    I have to agree with m6user here. I have been wondering how bad the Focus was so I went to the Ford dealership and sat in the Focus. I am over 6 feet and large and I set the Focus front seat comfortably (SE no sunroof as I hate them and the space they eat). I got in the back seat and found the space not good but I could handle it for around town without any problem. It was below average for a compact but far from unacceptable. I got in a Fiesta and there was no comparison. I couldn't even jam by leg behind the front seat. That is unacceptable for anyone over about 6-8 years old.

    I then went to Mazda and if it has over 36 inches of rear legroom it must be invisible. The previous generation had reasonable room. The 2011 appeared to have about equal space as the Focus.

    The Focus doesn't have the legroom of the Jetta or Elantra, but I was not turned off by the space. The headroom seemed better in the Focus than just about every competitor to include the Mazda3, Jetta, and Elantra.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    edited May 2011
    The Focus doesn't have the legroom of the Jetta or Elantra, but I was not turned off by the space. The headroom seemed better in the Focus than just about every competitor to include the Mazda3, Jetta, and Elantra.

    Right, the problem is not the head room, & not even the knee room -- only the stretch-out leg room, which a child-seat won't have problem with.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    edited May 2011
    But who buys a Focus for crosscountry cruising with adults in the back anyway?

    Today's Focus, like all the old Honda Accord's prior to 1998, could not allow my legs to stretch out in the back. But wait a minute, yesterday's Focus got adult-size leg room in the back PLUS adult-size chair height, which is something today's Golf/Jetta don't got while my Mk1 Jetta does! :sick:

    That's right. Just 24 hrs ago, I drove my '07 Focus ST to go test drive the GTI & Golf, which may have enough leg room in the back but w/ low chairs. So the rear seating is still not that comfortable. While on the way home, the hydraulic steering in my '07 Focus ST felt so alive by comparison, even when driving in a straight line, & therefore felt so good. Despite slightly less steering precision plus slightly less comfort due to less quietness & front suspension travel, I still find my old Focus more fun & enjoyable.

    So if you have driven the head-of-the-class new Focus, chances are you might turn selfish enough to buy it despite realizing that most rear passengers will be suffering (like how the Accord sedans used to offer):P

    Me too, I was wondering why those old Accord sedans got rear doors...
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Me too, I was wondering why those old Accord sedans got rear doors...

    Yeah, it's a wonder how they sold any of those Accords when the backseat was clearly unusable. :confuse:
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