2012 Ford Focus

shipo · November 2011

I took my wife out this morning for a series of test drives, on the list was a Focus SE 5-Speed, a Golf 5-Speed, a GTI 6-Speed, a Cruze ECO 6-Speed, a Mazda3 s GT 6-Speed, and if we could find one, a Subaru Impreza.

The first stop was our local Ford dealership for a spin in the Focus; after she drove it she commented that she was impressed with the look of the car, the fit and finish, the ride and handling, the layout of the controls, and the feel of the manual gear box. Her only real complaint that the rear seat room was just too cramped for our two teenagers.

Next up was a dealership that carried both Chevy and VW; after walking past a Cruze she decided to skip the test drive; she just didn't like how the car looked. I should mention that she's in the fashion industry and is very visual; no matter how good a car (or other commodity) may be from a technical perspective, if it doesn't look right, she don't want it.

The GTI was a different story; before we'd even opened the door she said, "Oh yeah, this is the one!" Following the test drive she dug her heels in and refused to even consider a different car; we now have a black 2012 VW GTI 6-Speed manual sitting in the garage. As I predicted in this thread many months ago, had Ford not cut something like two inches of leg room the Focus (compared to the previous generation), we'd probably have one of those in our garage instead.

gogogodzilla · November 2011

It says volumes that a Ford Focus is being cross-shopped with a VW GTI.

For me, the situation was similar... but reversed. I currently have a VW GTI (Mk.V). With the extended warranty about to go along with a good understanding of how much it costs to repair VW's when something breaks... it was time to start looking for a new car.

And it came down to the Mazda3 and the Focus. The GTI has been decontented too much to be good value in my book.

And as for the Mazda3... it does drive slightly better than the Focus, but the Focus beats it in fuel economy and toys (electronic gadgetry).

Plus, once you start driving with a DSG transmission... you really don't want to go back to an ordinary slushbox afterwards. Having all the benefits (engine braking!!!) of a manual without the drawbacks (rowing of the oars in heavy city traffic) is a definite plus in my book.

bpizzuti · November 2011

And as for the Mazda3... it does drive slightly better than the Focus, but the Focus beats it in fuel economy and toys (electronic gadgetry).

Complete agreement on the drive and the gadgets. The Mazda actually beats the Focus in FE, but by 1-2 MPG, which is not realistically significant (do the math, that comes to about $2 difference every 500 miles).

I find that the Mazda3 drives better, but not better enough to compensate, the two are very close (expected, as they share the first-gen Focus as an ancestor). I do like Mazda's tranny a little better, but I think I'm going to end up in the Focus.

Besides, Mazda's only offering me $8,500 for my Elantra Touring. Chevy was desperate enough to offer me $10k, so I should be able to get north of $9000 from a Ford dealer.

Sandman6472 · November 2011

Have a 2005 Mazda3s with the thirsty 2.3 but have had no engine problems. What are you talking about, as we've heard of no problems...been pretty reliable and we're close to 99k right now. Planning on going until 120k if possible as it's not worth much to anyone once one crosses the 100k mark. It's still quite peppy but this will be the last big engined 4 cylinder car we get, time to get her back down to a 1.8 car like my Civic. Luckily I go through about a tank a month now so we've cut back our petrol consumption that way. She'll try the new SkyActive Touring model, we've got a $25 test drive coupon, but doubt she'd want the same car again...I sure hope not as change is good and the competition has gotten so much better since 2005.

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

Sandman6472 · November 2011

I liked the stone leather in the SEL that I sat in...very comfortable and soft...I really liked it. Just that I am not sure if we'll end up with one at this point. The aqua marine color did look very nice on the hatch I must say.

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

shipo · November 2011

"It says volumes that a Ford Focus is being cross-shopped with a VW GTI."

How so? Other than the fact that they were on the same list of cars to look at, they really aren't in the same league. After driving both cars I can honestly say there really is no comparison, with the exception of fuel economy the Focus isn't even remotely competitive with the GTI in any way shape or form.

creakid1 · November 2011

Back then, I didn't find the Mk5 Rabbit got an impressive steering feel, if any at all. So I was cross shopping the Focus ST w/ the base RX-8. Even w/ 60-series tires, the RX-8's handling limit was so high that I couldn't really have any chance to play with! So I decided to get the Focus ST in order to drift often.

But today...Mk5 vs Mk6...Mk6 Golf has the poise of Mk5 GTI, plus better steering feel! (per C&D)

Sept 2011 C&D:
"One tester called the GTI's steering "medium effort." That applies to road and track alike. Which is why (Mr.) Cayman surprised us with results that had the GTI sitting atop the steering-effort pile. We can't argue the data, but the system's heft may be masked by the rack's supreme linearity. The Mini, Miata, and Evo respond well initially, but all plateau and run out of feel when they reach roughly 0.4 g of lateral load. In the GTI¯indeed, in general¯steering feels natural because effort climbs in lockstep with increases in lateral acceleration."

So, after 1/2 a decade of experience w/ electric steering, the Golf/GTI has finally tuned it w/ the most impressive "steering effort" built-up per lateral g-force (C&D test).

But EVO realized that the Mk6 GTI is always too much in control, too able (competent), & therefore found the "lower-handling-limit, bumpier-riding & less refined" Scirocco more fun despite lacking oversteer playfulness due to the wider rear track from the Passat.

So my conclusion is to get the longer-spring Golf in order to extract the drifting fun from its lower handling limit, while at the same time rides way plusher than the GTI.

C&D concurs
"Even without GTI or R upgrades, though, the new Golf performs well. The four-link rear suspension, maligned by financial analysts but loved by testers, makes the car wonderfully stable in high-speed curves. In a typical front-driver, one can get to the limit quickly; in the new Golf, it takes real effort. And the stability control doesn't abruptly slam the brakes to kill any fun and teach you a lesson; it works smoothly and rapidly to help the car feel completely neutral."

Winding Road
>"...the Tiptronic transmission seems to have taken shifting lessons from VWs excellent DSG electronic manual, meaning that it responds to driver inputs more rapidly and intuitively than before. Put these factors together and you have a really satisfying general-purpose drive train packageone that offers a smooth, punchy burst of torque off the line plus healthy surge of midrange and top-end power that makes trips to redline rewarding, too.

Performance-minded drivers will observe that the 2.5-liter five is down about 30 horsepower and 30 pound-feet of torque relative to the 2.0 turbo four found in VWs GTIdifferences you would mostly notice higher up in the rev band as boost fully comes into play. But while the 2.0T may be the better engine for sporting applications, many drivers might find the 2.5s superior low-end thrust that makes it the more responsive motor for cutnthrust city driving scenarios.

Steering is light, accurate, and communicative, giving drivers the ability to place the Golf with precision within highway lanes or on back road curves. Suspension action is compliant yet reasonably tautgiving a plush but certainly not mushy ride, even on sketchy pavement surfaces.

...the Golf provided a day-to-day driving experience, Not all that different from a 3-Series BMW, which gives you some idea of just how special this little car really is."
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Visually fooled by Golf's mouse-fur interior color, initially I was envying GTI's cloth sport seats until the saleman showed me that Golf's seats are shaped the same way as GTI's.

So why should drivers of the big-displacement 5-cyl Golf envy the GTI w/ the soft laggy turbo throttle response? CR also found the regular-unleaded 5-cyl Rabbit/Golf (w/ either stick or Aisin/Toyota slushbox) as the only reliable German car. DSG can self destruct shortly & costs $6k to replace.

The Control-Blade (which is "Focus technology") plush-riding Golf (along w/ the reliable Aisin/Toyota slushbox) ends this year model (2012), as there will be no more threat from Golf any longer for the Focus to worry about :P

creakid1 · November 2011

Visually fooled by Golf's mouse-fur interior color, initially I was envying GTI's cloth sport seats until the salesman showed me that Golf's seats are shaped the same way as GTI's.

So why should drivers of the big-displacement 5-cyl Golf envy the GTI w/ the soft laggy turbo throttle response? CR also found the regular-unleaded 5-cyl Rabbit/Golf (w/ either stick or Aisin/Toyota Tiptronic slushbox) to be the only reliable German car. DSG can self destruct shortly & costs $6k to replace.

The Control-Blade (which is "Focus technology") plush-riding Golf, along w/ the reliable Aisin/Toyota Tiptronic slushbox & even the (finally) finely honed electric steering(?), ends this model year (2012), as there will be no more threat from Golf any longer for the Focus to worry about :P

FYI, the Beetle is now based on the Mk7 Golf...

Sandman6472 · November 2011

Where's the Golf going? Or are we getting a new "Rabbit"?

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

puffin1 · November 2011

puffin1 · November 2011

Sorry using I Phone. The 2.5 is history for next year the Golf gets a 1.8T. The VW Polo due as 2013 in Golf 1.4 l. Also Polo maybe offered in the GTI.
Yeah, right now I'd cross shop a GTI with a Focus it's more of a fun ride and drivers car. The Fe would cost more .20$ a gallon more,not to forget the 6 speed.In fact with the price of the Focus and all the pkgs u have to put together to get what you want, I look at the Mini..
The Coopers S can be bought for 26k and the Focus Ti is close to that price.It's alot easier to put a mini together than a Focus.
Hey, who knows read Baky's post on the econoboost Focus,hell I'm waiting for the ST and I bet neighter one comes. We are are Second hand Rose when it come to shipping the great fun rides across the pond. OK we are on way to CO and the bride wants me stop using her phone. Happy T Day Puffin

backy · November 2011

Better get a Blackberry or something else with a real keyboard. :P

I didn't make the point re 250 hp in the ST. Frankly that's way more power than I need in a car like this. 160 hp is plenty.

creakid1 · November 2011

Right, 160 hp is plenty. Today at the LA Autoshow, they explained to me that Ford didn't have time to finish up a completed ST. Instead, they presented the regular Focus w/ the ST interior. So the stick is still a 5-sp unit. They should just sell the car like this! These seats can cost thousands of dollar from the parts deptment.

Those seats are awsome, & I don't even mind the deletion of the rear center armrest.

When I heard some of you complimenting the comfort of new Focus' current front seats, I was laughing thinking that the design of these seats is joke. B/c even the front seats of the limo-plush-riding Golf 2.5 got strong lateral support.

Now these ST's fat bolsters...mm, mm. They're even fat enough for my elbows to rest on.

bpizzuti · November 2011

160 HP is plenty when you have to drive 100 miles a day and want to get something close to 40 MPG. Now, I'll take more HP if I can get it, but NOT at the cost of FE.

gambit293 · November 2011

Agreed. 160 is plenty for a c-segment car. Maybe 10 years ago, I would say more more more HP. But nowadays I'm a bit more . . . mature.

bpizzuti · November 2011

160 is a lot when you get down to it. 8 years ago 160 HP was the UPGRADED engine in my Mazda3, and got 28 MPG highway. Base in most c-segment machines was 120-130 HP and generally got 33 MPG highway max. Just for perspective, that was back when Honda and Toyota were the kings of FE, instead of Hyundai and Ford like today.

Now we can get a 160 HP engine that gets 40 MPG highway. While that might not be enough for some, I contend that those "some" should be looking at Mustangs and EVOs, or waiting for the Focus ST, not complaining about the regular one. :shades:

creakid1 · November 2011

It's the fat torque that makes the big difference in real-world driving, especially in cut-n-thrust traffic.

A good example is the 200HP early Acura TSX. Unless it offers a CVT to keep the rev in the narrow power band, this thing is rather gutless through out most of the rev range.

When an engine is tuned to to sacrifice peak HP in order to gain a fat range of torque curve, the MPG excels. But only if you take advantage of the low-end thrust & up-shift early. EPA don't do that! So their MPG rating for the manual, unless it's super-wide ratio, is on the low side.

My inexpensive '98 Corolla LE manual has the 1.8 factory tuned to a rather low peak HP. But that strong low-end means constantly revving below 3000rpm even when driving rather spiritedly passing all other cars in the traffic, plus 40mpg cruising on the FWY.

bpizzuti · November 2011

Corollas had torque? :shades:

I found the Focus to have just the right amount of torque, though I think a torque converter would have pushed them under what they needed to put to the wheels.

creakid1 · November 2011

Corollas had torque?

Exactly, at least at low rpm.

What is the torquiest normally aspirated Focus engine through out the history? Not the 170hp SVT/ST170 2.0, but the U.S-spec 2.3 (on the ST sedan), which is a "low-end torque biased" Mazda 2.3. I got rid of my '98 Corolla 1.8 & bought the Focus 2.3 ST sedan. The 1.8 Corolla engine is stronger still all the way from idle to somewhere above 2000rpm. That's why it feels like a more powerful car in the traffic, & also gets 40 fwy mpg (& still about 30 mpg elsewhere). The Focus 2.3 ST (also 5-sp manual) can't even touch 30 mpg on the fwy!

backy · November 2011

For more perspective, my wife's four-year-old Sonata has 162 hp, and only a 4AT, but it moves out pretty well, to the point she has a hard time keeping under the speed limit. Put almost that same power into a smaller car and with a stick... yep, plenty of power to get into trouble with!

Not many years ago, if you wanted 40+ mpg in a car it was small, tinny, and underpowered. Now we get 160 hp in the Focus, 155 hp in the Mazda3 Skyactiv, 148 hp in the Elantra, even 138 hp in subcompacts like the Accent/Rio and Sonic. Not that many years ago, 140 hp was common for V6s. Great days to drive a small car!

bpizzuti · November 2011

I only test-drove a Titanium, so I'm wondering what the regular key looks like (I don't want black so I may end up in an SEL). Is it a switchblade-type, separate fob, fob integrated into the head of the key, or what?

ivan_99 · November 2011

You don't want black?

A black what?

bpizzuti · November 2011

Don't want black period, but particularly I don't want a black interior. Been putting up with those since '03.

thunderbird · November 2011

Do any of you 2012 focus owners feel the front seats are stiff? I was exploring one yesterday and they seem very stiff. I personally know of Honda owners that hate the stiff seats in their hondas. Also, does anyone know if the transmission shifting issues expressed in this forum has been resolved by Ford?

ivan_99 · November 2011

ahh...me too...but I do like the 'partial' black leather with white (and even red).

akirby · November 2011

After break-in and the new TSB the problems are minimal. It still feels a little different (because it is) and it occasionally stumbles when slowing to a stop but it's not a big deal. I wouldn't worry about it but you should make sure to do a test drive to be safe.

Sandman6472 · November 2011

Our 2.3 engine in the Mazda3s has great power throughout the power band and more than we need. But the mpg's are disappointing to say the least...it's a thirsty beast! But since the rest of our driving has come down considerably, it more than averages out. But we'll stay with a 1.8 four in her next car and hopefully get one that'll approach the magical 40 miles per gallon highway. Nothing more is necessary for us anymore.

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

Sandman6472 · November 2011

I definitely noticed it when on my test drive and the Jetta I drove right after was a smoother slushbox. If it came down to only those two cars, I'd go with the Jetta hands down. It'll be interesting when she does her test drives, as I plan to do as many back to back as we can over a couple of days. I want her to know exactly what she wants so when the time comes, we test drive it once again, then do the deal. And I'll bet that'll happen too next year when we do buy, give or take.

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

bpizzuti · November 2011

The red I could maybe deal with but not the white, just doesn't look right, too big a contrast.

Anyway, about the SE/SEL key? Anyone? Bueller? :shades:

m6user · November 2011

I read alot about the poor mpg in the Mazd3 S w/ the 2.3. I have the same drivetrain in my Mazda6 and get, what I consider, to be excellent mpg. Or I should say my wife does. She averages about 28 mpg tank in tank out with an approx 50/50 mix of driving. She's no slow poke either. She took me to the airport the other day and I looked over and she was tooling right along at 80 and I told her I wasn't in that big of hurry.

When I was getting the oil changed at the Mazda dealer I was comparing the 2.5 in the 3 & 6 in the showroom and the 3 gets much worse mpg than the 6 does even though the 6 is a much larger car with some more weight. They must really gear the 3 to get the zoom-zoom. Sedans mpg as follows.

2011 Mazda6 w/ 2.5L, 5spd auto 22/31
2011 Mazda3 w/2.5L, 5spd auto 20/28

akirby · November 2011

IKT - Integrated Key Transmitter.

bpizzuti · November 2011

Good I like those. The switchblade-style is too bulky.

cannon3 · November 2011

I have read the 2012 Focus with the automatic transmission has some issues. Has Ford fixed these issues?

robr2 · November 2011

If you peruse this forum you'll read some comments.

From what I understand it isn't a problem with the transmission itself. It's more of a lack of familiarity with the type of DSG transmission and how it operates.

backy · November 2011

Funny, that's almost exactly what a Ford sales rep told me!

Wasn't there a TSB for the DSG? If so, wouldn't that indicate there's something there besides lack of familiarity with the DSG transmission?

Sandman6472 · November 2011

I also found the interior door latches to be pretty flimsy...felt pretty cheap actually. And where else are they "cheapening out" on this car? Truth be told, we're just not Ford people and never will be. Will be very interested to see if I ever get my promised $50 rebate for taking the test drive...have m doubts!

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

markus5 · November 2011

I have received $50 gift cards 2 years consecutively now. The first year they did not even bother with a test drive. Next year the dealer "insisted" that I spend some time alone on a test drive with a Mustang Convertable.
Subsequently, Ford Motor sent me $750 Private Cash certificates toward purrchase 2 times. Both certificates have since expired.
A "Cheapening out", quality is evident in the back seat constuction of the 4 door in the lower trim levels (S and SE ). The quality level on the door latches was similar or representitive of most cars in this class.
My last 2 new car purchases have been Fords which have offered very enjoyable driving experiences.

akirby · November 2011

The TSB was to improve the shift quality. It's not that there aren't issues - it's just that the issues aren't as severe as people think they are, especially after 1000 miles or so. There do appear to be a very small number of vehicles with actual mechanical defects but those are rare.

My daughter drives one every day and I just test drove it extensively a few weeks ago.

creakid1 · November 2011

Where's the Golf going?

VW thinks these "Focus Control Blade" multi-links are too good for cheapskates. That's why only the Passat, which costs thousands dollars more than the Golf/Jetta, gets to keep it in the comfortable set up (i.e., w/o going through the lowered stiffened sport supension).

I'm afraid the next Golf will follow the new Jetta's interior design, which is actually quite annoying, don't you think? The long-arm driving postion w/ the too-low door armrest...the uncomfortably low rear-seat cushion...not to mention the cheaper interior/dashboard in both styling & quality.

bpizzuti · November 2011

They are too good for cheapskates...then again, how long was VW using a torsion beam? Now it seems like others are going to semi-indys to save money.

creakid1 · November 2011

the Focus isn't even remotely competitive with the GTI in any way shape or form

Why would you say that? Besides Focus' cheaper-quality plastic & fit-&-finish...

According to this Euro magazine, there are only 3 top compact hatches. & they are...while the rest are just distant...

I've noticed that --

The GTI has stiffer & shorter-travel suspension than the Golf 2.5, ditto the Focus.
(Note: This suspension change isn't necessarily an "upgrade". & this is how this Euro magazine feels about the Golf: "Big wheels and sports suspension upset the ride... In fact, this is probably the Golf at its worst  lesser models are better to drive and represent much greater value for money.")

The GTI is a tad more fun & exciting to drive than the Golf 2.5, ditto the Focus.
(The Focus is "more engaging to drive than the Golf (even w/ the sport suspension)")

The GTI's engine has less low-end thrust & grunt (but sounds smoother when revved) than Golf's bigger-displacement 5-cyl 2.5, ditto the Focus' 2.0 (turbo ST will be available soon).

If it's the rear-seat comfort that keeps them apart, then the Focus' limited leg room means it belongs to the A3 & C30/S40/V50 class (since they all have the Control Blades from the Focus). I guess Ford also trys to price match them? Maybe Ford should just sell an "extended-wheelbase version" through the Lincoln dealers.

I've noticed that the shape of Focus' rear chair is more comfortably high & supports my thighs real well better than any back seat in the current Golf/GTI/Jetta, let alone Mazda2's super-low chairs, which keeps my knees high up in the air & about as cramped in knee room.

If some short-leg slim person sits in the Focus' driver seat, then the person (such as my 5'11" slim frame) sitting behind will actually enjoy more back-seat comfort than in any of the current Golf/GTI & especially the low-chair new Jetta, which seems to also have less rear head room than the Focus sedan.

Styling-wise, I think the Golf/GTI got a boring body, while the Focus hatch is ugly enough to look like an improved Dodge Caliber :P

VW seems to be going boring inside out. What's up w/ that "Impala body" Passat...

Anyway, I'm still keeping my Mk1 Jetta coupe, which was designed before I was old enough to drive. Its back seat is the most comfortable -- even has full-length lateral support for my outer thigh, unlike its 4-dr version. & the current Golf/GTI don't got this "upgrade" for the 2-dr! :sick:

shipo · November 2011

I see, now you're prognosticating on what VW is going to do even before they've done it. Interesting...

shipo · November 2011

My 1979 Scirocco had the torsion beam rear suspension, and it was one of the best cars I've ever driven. I suppose some folks may look down their nose at cars with such a setup, but not me.

shipo · November 2011

Please spare us your opinions which are devoid of actual seat time in either car.

Go drive the two back to back and tell me with an unbiased mind (if that's possible) and a straight face the Focus measures up to the GTI in any way shape or form.

bpizzuti · November 2011

I'll tell you that the Focus measures up to the Mazda3. Does the Mazda3 measure up to the GTI or vice versa?

Sandman6472 · November 2011

I disagree totally...our 2005 Mazda 3s drives so much better than the Focus SE I drove in the beginning of the month. To be fair, the Focus does have the smaller engine so it's not quite an apples to apples comparo. Even still, our 6 year old car has a nicer interior and exterior in my opinion and it beats by a mile the last generation Focus which was low rent in comparison. We did test drive the last generation Focus and couldn't get out of it fast enough, it was that bad!

But I've said since day 1 that we're just not Ford people, their products just don't appeal to us. The new Focus hatchback is the 1st Ford product I'd consider buying but after showing the wife a new one this afternoon, she let me know in no uncertain terms that it ain't gonna happen for her next ride!

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

bpizzuti · November 2011

I test-drove a Mazda3 SkyActiv and a Ford Focus back to back last weekend (which is more of an apples to apples thing). They're very close. And Ford beat's Mazda's current interior easily. Admittedly I like'd Mazda's old interior better than their current one. I had a 2004 Mazda3s that drove really well, but also had a lot of road noise, and rotten FE (when I bought it my commute was 10 miles a day...that number has since added a zero).

I'm getting the Focus, provided I get the right features at the right price. I do find myself wondering if I can get a set of the Titanium headlamps and put them on the SEL though...they make the front end look nice and mean, but I don't want a Titanium (tired of black interiors).

creakid1 · November 2011

We did test drive the last generation Focus and couldn't get out of it fast enough, it was that bad!

Which Focus did you try out? I was shopping b/t the ST 2.3 stick w/ 50-series 16"s & the 3S 2.3 stick w/ 55-series 16"s. The 3S rides like as if the tires are made of concrete despite taller sidewalls, while the handling is so oversteer-prone that it would seem dangerous in the wet w/o the stability program.

The Focus ST 2.3 was totally tossable -- you can drive like a maniac & still able to catch the tail in time.

Anyway, today, my right brain just wanna get a bright blue (or light green) new Focus SE sedan stick & replace the driver seat w/ the blue (or green) one from the upcoming ST turbo -- it will be a joy.

If I get to rent a car for a day just to blast off & skid around, then the new Focus SE stick will be the choice over the Golf/GTI. But to own one? I'm not sure -- The Focus has cheap/toxic plastic smell when exposed to sun heat, noisier A/C fan, shallower ride comfort than the Golf 2.5...

shipo · November 2011

"I'll tell you that the Focus measures up to the Mazda3. Does the Mazda3 measure up to the GTI or vice versa?"

Yes, the Mazda3 has steering which feels a bit more communicative than the GTI; beyond that our GTI blows our Mazda3 away in every category except purchase price. Said another way, the two cars are a class apart.

bpizzuti · November 2011

Well, I'm thinking the GTI falls flat when it comes to fuel economy.

2012 Ford Focus

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