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2012 Ford Focus

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Comments

  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "I also notice you were very careful to NOT answer the question."

    A Sequential-Manual transmission of motorcycle ilk is a manual transmission. That said, there aren't any cars being sold these days with such a transmission (and haven't for decades).

    "It's Ok, we all know you're one of those purists who really REALLY wishes for the old days when men were men and clutches were attached to pedals, but one day you to will realize the world of transmissions isn't that simple anymore."

    This has absolutely nothing to do with being a purist and everything to do with using our language properly. It's really simple, if it can shift for itself, it's an Automatic.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    The Toyota MR2 used a sequential manual transmission with no automatic shifting capability and no clutch pedal.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    edited December 2011
    Yes, there were a few markets where Toyota sold Mister-Two with an SMT transmission, but as far as I know, it's been at least fifteen years since the MR2 was offered here in the States, and never with the SMT.

    As for Toyota's implementation of what they call the SMT, based upon its operation it should really have been called an SAT as it really wasn't a true Sequential-Manual in the classic sense. Said another way, it operated in a very similar fashion to BMW's early SMG transmissions.
  • gambit293gambit293 Member Posts: 406
    Based on your example, I echo Shipo: it's kind of irrelevant. Firstly, there are no such seq. manuals in the US Market today so it's moot. Secondly, even if there were such an offering, it would be so unusual that it shouldn't be classified either way without explicit note.

    So returning to my example, if your friend says he or she cannot drive a manual and thus needs to buy an automatic, you could then say, Okay, but what about a sequential manual?
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    I could say "how about this thing which is a lot more like a manual but you won't have a problem with a clutch pedal?" Except that you have a spiritual belief that anything without a clutch pedal is somehow an automatic, failing to differentiate between the noun usage and the adjective usage. Wash rinse repeat.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    I'll ask again, name a car sold in the last thirty years which has a true manual transmission without a clutch pedal. Since there is no such a car, trying to argue your point is moot.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    is a moot point. The topic is 2012 Focus, not transmission semantics and grammar.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    edited December 2011
    Last year, I had a chance to compare my '00 Civic (w/ "double wishbones front & back" & 1.6 4-sp auto) w/ a Z3 (w/ "struts front & trailing arms rear", & 1.9 5-sp manual) side by side for quite a few days.

    The roomier & less costly Civic w/ slushbox actually feels torquier & gets way better mpg. Its longer-travel suspension (along w/ only T-speed 185/65-14 tires) also corners better along w/ higher road-holding limit, not to mention better at absorbing bumps & especially during bumpy corners (this car is like a mini TSX). Even when cornering hard at the limit, the suspension geometry made the car remaining completely neutral & breaking away evenly front-&-back w/ no surprises.

    So, with the exception of the "quick & lively steering rack," the Z3 isn't even remotely competitive with the double-wishbone Civic in any way shape or form, either. But I actually had more fun driving the Z3, b/c I can tackle the limit all the time w/ "on demand" understeer & oversteer. During this period, I left the "much more competent" Civic in the garage & never bothered with it, while the Z3 made me drive more often than necessary.

    "If I get to rent a car for a day just to blast off & skid around, then the new Focus SE stick will be the choice over the Golf/GTI. But to own one? I'm not sure -- The Focus has cheap/toxic plastic smell when exposed to sun heat, noisier A/C fan, shallower ride comfort than the Golf 2.5..."

    You really do need to get out more; for pure driving enjoyment the Focus SE is a very poor second to a GTI.


    The new Focus SE manual is just awarded, along w/ Golf/GTI, 3-Series, etc., as "10 Best Car" by Jan 2012 Car & Driver.

    That's what the "Focus" is all about -- a well focused rear suspension for you to drift in a controlled manner. No wonder it replaced the old-name "Escort". Have you driven the new Focus SE w/ 16"s? Did you notice its oversteer is available on tap? I have also driven the Mazda3 2.3 w/ 16"s, but it seems to oversteer a little too nervously such as during "abruptly induced lane change" at fwy speeds.

    Some Euro-Ford designs w/ rear multi-links really know how to have "pure driving enjoyment".

    I doubt the GTI's tuning allows this kind of stunt, even though it may excel in track time.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,147
    Thanks - I was just about to say the same. It's not like we don't have a manual transmission discussion, so please head over there to continue this conversation. People stopping in here have a reasonable expectation that the majority of conversation will be about the 2012 Focus, specifically.

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  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    edited December 2011
    It seems quite clear to me based upon your writings that you've never driven either car and as such are simply parroting what others have written. That and your personal biases in favor of the old Escort and the new Focus color virtually every post you make. As for your continued reliance on what others think, who cares?

    Now, if you go out for an extensive test-drive of a Focus SE 5-Speed and a GTI 6-Speed and actually have some original thoughts of your own, then I'm all ears; until then pretty much everything you post is irrelevant to this discussion.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    edited December 2011
    Yes, I test drove both cars but on different days. The GTI's road holding is too "perfect" to have fun. How are you gonna enjoy rear rotation on a GTI on regular bases? Of course the Mazdaspeed Miata w/ LSD does it the best.

    The GTI should win the race on the track, but that's not necessarily the "pure driving enjoyment" for many drivers.

    By the way, the hydraulic steering of Mk1,2,3 Jetta/Golf/GTI is my favorite steering, not the ones on the Focus'!
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Ahhh, so the GTI is bad because it's too good. :confuse:
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    Exactly! The GTI is too perfect, therefore more boring to drive in the real world.

    & because of it, I plan to get the Golf 2.5 in order to lower the road-holding limit. That way, it'll also surpass any Focus in ride comfort, especially over deep bumps.
  • polter12polter12 Member Posts: 4
    Anyone else experiencing issue with your 2012 Ford Focus? I have been to the dealer 4 times already about issue. The 2nd time they were going to replace transmission but Ford HDQTRs told them to reset the computer with new shifting strategy. NO FIX. The problem is the engine sputters a pit when coming off a stop, very minor but heck its a new car. The 2nd problem is grinding noise while accelerating. If you accelerate normally you might not feel it but if you come off the gas and back on or if you go up a hill and hesitate for a moment and put foot on gas then it Grinds (like metal on metal). The Dealer techs tell me that sometimes the computer controlled transmission causes the gears to shift all of a sudden like a big ker plunk, but that's ok, just ignore the Grinding ker plunk noise. If I knew after owning honda's Toyota and Hyundai all my life(including helping family members purchase cars) then now I have to settle for a sub par performance with this crappy ford focus I would have never made the purchase. Be fore warned! I got hooked in by the 40 mpg and renewed Ford company and thought I would give it a shot. Well its not worth the time and frustration dealing with poorly made vehicle. Yes your right, my bad I should have stuck with the proven winners (Honda, Toyota, Hyundia). Anyway now I have to spend more time pursuing the CT lemon law in attempt to settled this thing. I wish they would just take back their sucky car. Anyway I was wondering if any one else noticed this issue in their transmission. BTW I already have 16,000 miles on it.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    Looks like VW's & Focus/Fiesta's only belong to stick drivers these days!
  • tim156tim156 Member Posts: 308
    Whoa, slow down there polter12. There is a transmission programming update that has been out for a few months, so there is a fix. If the dealership you use is not aware of, or won't perform the update, go somewhere else. If their first solution was to swap the transmission, my guess is they aren't up to date on TSB's.
  • puffin1puffin1 Member Posts: 276
    edited December 2011
    Does the Focus have a 6spd or a 5spd. manual tranny. I know the Ford has a timing chain. Also, looking for a car like the Focus or golf that has blind spot mirrors.The Golf will be a 6 spd manual with a1.8 turbo.I need lumbar support and Ford makes you jump up to a SEL for lumbar. I can't believe the VW cost less,with bluetooth,sunroof and alloys and a standard lumbar.Maybe it's the Skyactive Mazda that has the blinkiing blind spot mirrors. Shippo ever on here?
    Hey Merry Christmas, if you can still say that on here.
    Puffin :shades:
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    The Focus has built-in blind-spot mirrors (those convex things that you can get aftermarket). As far as the transmission it has a 5 speed manual and a 6 speed dual-clutch automated sequential gearbox that Ford insists on calling an "automatic" because the Joe General Public isn't bright enough to know what a dual-clutch sequential tranny is. :)
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Ford calls it an "Automatic" because exactly what it is, an automatic transmission.
  • gogogodzillagogogodzilla Member Posts: 707
    A transmission is a slushbox, which a DSG is most patently *NOT*.

    At best, you can say it's an automatic clutch, but not an automatic transmission.

    (since you wanted to be anal about it, by raising the 'automatic' issue)
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Sorry dude, if it can shift for itself, it's an "Automatic" transmission. Nowhere in the term "Automatic" do you find a definition which says torque converter/slush box.

    Looked at it from a different perspective, name me one manufacturer which sells cars equipped with an automated mechanical gearbox which doesn't refer to it as an automatic. I'll give you a hint, Porsche invented their own name for their automatic transmission, they call it the Porsche Doppelkupplung (PDK). Beyond that...
  • markus5markus5 Member Posts: 102
    I would completely agree with Shipo on this one. In fact, there should not be any question about this. It is sold as an AT, based simply on the fact that it will do the work without additional intervention. Ford's "Marketing" decision to make this the only transmission available in the higher trim level vehicles is, in my opinion, a mistake. It will be interesting to see if there will be a choice of transmissions when the ST model arrives.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Please drop it. We've been through this already.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    edited December 2011
    grinding noise while accelerating?

    Man, that is obsurd, even after resetting the computer with new shifting strategy? This tranny will eventually grind itself up, perhaps after the warranty expires. & there goes all the $ you saved from the "40mpg".

    Modern electronics are still not smart enough to automate a manual tranny, not even in the pricy Audi A3:
    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f0ee004/105#MSG105
    "I've nearly had 3 accidents due to this transmission problem."

    No wonder a reliable car manufacturer like Toyota wouldn't bother with it, not even in its highly sophisticated Subaru-developed upcoming Scion RWD sports car.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    edited December 2011
    The Golf will be a 6 spd manual with a1.8 turbo.

    Is that som'in to cheer about? You're better off w/ naturally aspirated 2.0 in the Focus even w/ only a 5-sp manual.

    Are VW's well known for reliability or "affordable-cost per repair" when combining w/ supercharger, turbocharger, direct injection or DSG? Have you wondered why Toyota's aren't equipped that way? B/c, according to recent Consumer Reports, Rabbit/Golf imported from Germany are outperforming most Toyota's reliability when not equipped w/ these "risky" technologies.

    You can laugh at the slushboxes on VW/Audi/Porsche vehicles over the past years, but at least they are built by Aisin/Toyota in Japan. & I better go collect one soon! :P

    Also, looking for a car like the Focus or golf that has blind spot mirrors.

    Are you talking about the warning light invented by Volvo? Some aftermarket stick-on convex mirrors work better -- at least they got a 3-D video showing the "vehicle-approaching speed & acceleration".

    The one built in the mirrors of the new Fiesta/Focus didn't seem to cover the blind-spot sufficiently, as I tested them out at the LA Autoshow this time.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    My daughter is on her 2nd 2012 Focus and neither one exhibited any "grinding". If it's grinding then it's probably a mechanical issue.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    If you'd just adjust your mirrors correctly you would have no blind spots and should be able to see both side lanes and the rear with just slight movement of the head. Just as you lose the vehicle in the rear view they show up in the side mirror. Been doing it for years and never had to ratchet my head around or be a contrortionist to view all around the car. Convex mirrors can add some added view but are really not necessary.
  • puffin1puffin1 Member Posts: 276
    VW.Audi is fast becoming the # 1 car maker in the world. I'll take a six spd over a 5 spd anyday.
    Ya, I like the Volvo blind spot blinkers. They seem to get your attention.The best VW for realiability is the 2,5 liter in the Golf.
    Lastly I have had alot of nice Integs an especially the RSX Type S six speed all naturally aspirated.Acura should of kept it. The SI Civic can't compare. I have a 2011 BMW 328 i rear wheel in my garage on blocks for winter.
    The focus with that dry tranny isn't for me even if it's going to be a winter beater,also a five spd makes you want shift into 6th gear. You have step up to a SEL focus for the lumbar pkg 302and they don't offer a std tranny. :P $25k for a Focus ? I don't think so.
  • tim156tim156 Member Posts: 308
    edited December 2011
    Some people want to hate this transmission so much, that I think they're exaggerating every little thing they hear and feel as it operates. Yes, there have been some cars that had hard shifts and low speed issues, but those problems were addressed and corrected with the programming update. Just because it doesn't perform exactly like the traditional torque converter, slush box automatic transmissions they are used to, the haters, without ever driving one, or after taking a short test drive, attribute the normal operation of this transmission to something wrong and thus it's a bad design and Ford is evil by forcing it on folks who want the upper trim levels. On a dedicated Focus forum, in the 2012 Gen III thread, no one has mentioned any grinding, despite hundreds of posts regarding the known transmission issues. I suspect the "grinding" noise is the faint sound of the electronics activating the clutches and the clutches as they disengage and engage, but the poster that mentions grinding, exaggerates a normal sound because they need an excuse to dump a car that doesn't suit their needs due to a lack of research or an impulse purchase. I have had my 2012 since May and it has operated perfectly since the day I drove it off the lot. I did notice that it makes some sounds I was not used to hearing, but after a couple of days of flawless operation, I realized this is normal for this transmission. If your transmission is truly grinding, take it to the dealership, if your car is jerky when rolling at a slow speed or hesitates at tip in, take it to the dealership, or if it shifts harsh from 1st to 2nd, take it to the dealership. Just don't come here to complain and do nothing to resolve the problem. If you don't own one, don't comment on something you don't have any experience with. If the transmission is something you just can't live with, don't have faith in, or your dealership refuses to recognize, trade in the car, take a huge loss and buy a Toyota.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    edited December 2011
    $25k for a Focus ? I don't think so.

    $25k for any car w/o lumbar AND seat-height adjustment for BOTH front seats? I don't think so, either. Looks like even Japanese cars are too expensive for me!

    But the $19,600 made-in-Germany Golf has them all. Plus, you can have heated front seats (& windshield-washer nozzles) w/o leather or moonroof while the back seat got adjustable A/C ducts.
  • techdudetechdude Member Posts: 87
    How does $19400 sound for a SE hatch automatic with Sport and winter package (203A pkg as well)? That's what i'm being offered. Debating if i should go for it or pay a little more for the Impreza and it's AWD. I live and commute through a hilly area (65 miles) so the AWD would be welcome, but the price isn't.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    edited December 2011
    Lumbar AND seat-height adjustment for BOTH front seats?

    My favorite Focus III is still the manual SE sedan w/ sport package, but only if it can be equipped with those "ST hatch's Recaro front seats" displayed in the recent LA Autoshow :P
  • puffin1puffin1 Member Posts: 276
    edited December 2011
  • puffin1puffin1 Member Posts: 276
    edited December 2011
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Two very informative posts in a row; is the web site having an issue or is it the posters? :P
  • puffin1puffin1 Member Posts: 276
  • puffin1puffin1 Member Posts: 276
    edited December 2011
  • puffin1puffin1 Member Posts: 276
    yep,broken Shippo
  • puffin1puffin1 Member Posts: 276
    19.5k will get you a loaded24k SEL Focus in aVW Golf plus more torque a 5spd u can'tm get because lumbar s a SEL pkg
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    Nope, letting me post
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    edited December 2011
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    or retrofit a TDI or GTI wheel to a Golf (apparently an easy retrofit).
  • puffin1puffin1 Member Posts: 276
    25k w/sunroof and convience pkg.for a GTI. Think I swap out the wheel.You can get that on a $23,500 TDI.The steering wheel with the buttons.
    How come I can type now?My cursor was turning into a compass rose before and I couldn't post.
    Gas is going to go up and I don't want to have to put premium in 3 cars(wifes car) My VW with the 5 spd 2.5 has some real torque thogh and if you tried to duplcate it with all my options(lumbar) is'nt an option though.You have to start with a SEL DSG.Then you end up at 25k.
    I don't know what hapened to Mazda ,especilly the Mazda 3 148hp pefect engine,but you can't get a sunroof and lumbar support is gone and forget about heated seats. You guys remember the 2008 Mazda I New Value, what a car except for RSA Eagle tires.(loaded)
    I looked at Hyundai 138 hp Elantra way under powered,Accent,too.Focus way over priced. I might think different if it came with a six speed though.I wish Mazda would come out with more sky active models.Do you have a clue to FE with a 1.8l in a Golf 6spd?this is a new engine never in America before being built in its old plant.Well, I tried to buy American.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    We have a 2.0 liter 2009 Mazda3 i Touring Value Edition 5-Speed (I chucked the Eagle RS-As after only 714 miles) and a new 2012 GTI 6-Speed (manual); the GTI seems to get about two miles per gallon more than the Mazda for any given type of driving. That said, the extra fuel economy doesn't quite make up the difference in the cost of Regular versus Premium, and if you put your foot into the GTI the fuel economy can drop down into the mid to upper teens. :blush:
  • puffin1puffin1 Member Posts: 276
    I traded my 2008 I New value for the 2010 VW.Mazda only had heated seats in the Grand Touring and I think the engine was a 2.3 l.Also, my friend said it wasn't FE,but it was a 4spd auto.
    VW sells a Polo GTI it's 11" shorter than the Golf.I see all these cARS AND DIFFERENT FROM A 1.2 L DIESAL AND UP AND CAN'T BELIEVE WE DON'T GET CARS OVER HERE LIKE THAT.I MEAN I KNOW OUR GAS IS CHEAPER,BUT OUR ECONOMY IS IN THE TANK AND WE DON'T HAVE SOCIALISED MEDECINE AS THE UK AND EUROPEANS DO. I KNOW THEY TAX THE GAS OVER THERE FOR SOCIAL PROGRAMS.
    Boy, I don't know how hit the caps button sorry.I really wanted that Focus,but not for the price.My wife is on my case now saying to keep the VW She gets upset seeing the Beemer in the garage.I am a car nut I trade every 3 years.I've had 3 corvettes, 3 RX 7's about 3 IntegrasPlus my favorite the Type S. I still be driving Acuras if they kept the RSX.(they goofed the TSX is for old ladies)
    I loved watching the videos of the Focis Ti going trough the gears. I had my heart set on it. I have to have a car, thats keeps you busy shifting ,you know a fun ride. I won't spend the money. I have my honey do list on the weekends and need a HB.The Focus seats fold flat too.I know that I"m sort of dissing Ford,but they are like Toyota and Mazda. They make you buy so many options,or upgrade to another model.
    Here I'am in Maine and there isn't any snow,don't think the wife isn't on my case.I should of stored the car with just the tires on. It's going to be 45 degrees to morrow ,it's 43 today.
    Well happy New Year. We are off to Errol NH to Lake Unabagog to camp on the Magalloway.If I can get a beaver off Trapper Dave.I'm going to put it on the river ice and try to bag a coyote out the window. :shades:
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    wow...that message is all over the place...when you say you need a manual to keep busy you weren't kidding :)

    I thought the Focus was a 'little' more expensive than the others...but last time I checked I was eligible for about $2500 in rebates. So Edmunds TMV - 2500 turned into a very competitive price.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    edited December 2011
    or retrofit a TDI or GTI wheel to a Golf (apparently an easy retrofit).

    Exactly how easy is it?

    If it's gonna cost over $1k in order to complete with all the remote buttons working, then the comparison to Focus' pricing...
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    That thread you referenced is for a Mark V Rabbit, which if I recall correctly cost about $500. My understanding is that for Mark VI the process is a bit simpler, and while the GTI wheel it is a bit more expensive than the old Mark V wheel (or the Mark VI TDI wheel for that matter), neither should run you any where near $1,000.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    So, only some or all of these steering remote buttons will end up working? I sure like to know the answer.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    I haven't spent much time researching this for the Mark VI as I did back when I tried to buy a 2009 Rabbit (lack of manual transmissions due to the model change-over resulted in me buying a Mazda3 instead). With the above said, it is my understanding that upon initial installation some of the buttons will work, and depending upon which package the Golf was built with (i.e. Base, Convenience, Convenience and Sunroof), some or all of the remaining buttons will be enabled following a simple reprogramming procedure with a VAG-COM.

    Said another way, it is my understanding that if the Golf in question is purchased with the "Convenience and Sunroof" package (which includes Bluetooth and the higher end audio system), then all of the buttons will operate properly following a VAG-COM reprogramming. Do you know any different?
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